Cincinnati Masters 2023, Ohio, US - ATP Masters 1000

[Kieran]

Kieran,

I asked at the time when Novak was allowed a 2nd toilet break? as in a 3 set match only 1 break is allowed?
Even Don Fabio was amazed Novak was allowed a 2nd toilet break, all I could think of was of the hot and humid conditions that the umpire allowed it

Was it a second toilet break or a second MTO? How long did these breaks last, do you know?

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Was it a second toilet break or a second MTO? How long did these breaks last, do you know?

It was a 2nd toilet break, according to the rule as Tented explained you are allowed 6 mins to change your clothes

 

[Kieran]

It was a 2nd toilet break, according to the rule as Tented explained you are allowed 6 mins to change your clothes

Players shouldn’t be allowed to change their clothes. They’ve made up rules that encourage players to cheat. Was he longer than his allotted time, do you know?

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Players shouldn’t be allowed to change their clothes. They’ve made up rules that encourage players to cheat. Was he longer than his allotted time, do you know?

Novak was on time, well according to the rule he should not be allowed a 2nd toilet break, in a 3 set match.

 

[Kieran]

Novak was on time, well according to the rule he should not be allowed a 2nd toilet break, in a 3 set match.

Remember Carlos got cramp in Paris and forfeited a game to get treatment? That’s what should have happened there…

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Remember Carlos got cramp in Paris and forfeited a game to get treatment? That’s what should have happened there…

I remember that incident, well the umpire allowed the 2nd toilet break, the only reason I could think of at the time was because of the hot humid conditions,

 

[Kieran]

I remember that incident, well the umpire allowed the 2nd toilet break, the only reason I could think of at the time was because of the hot humid conditions,

I don’t think the rules mention these conditions though. Being fit and ready to play are the players responsibility. If he needs to leave the court twice, why should his opponent be penalised?

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

I don’t think the rules mention these conditions though. Being fit and ready to play are the players responsibility. If he needs to leave the court twice, why should his opponent be penalised?

Of course being fit and ready to play in all conditions are the players responsibility, when Tented posted the heat and humid conditions before the match started I knew then Novak would be struggling, he has never done well in hot and humid conditions, though some of the rallies were long and grueling, quite frankly I would have thought either player would try to shorten points in these conditions, as I posted after the match, I am certain both players would have taken long 'ice baths' and also to get the fluid's back in their bodies.I take your point why should his opponent be penalized, it came down to the Umpire and his ruling allowing Novak to leave the court twice.
( sorry for the delay in posting I just came back from my run)

 

[Fiero425]

I don’t think the rules mention these conditions though. Being fit and ready to play are the players responsibility. If he needs to leave the court twice, why should his opponent be penalised?

Djokovic is hitting "Roger Federer" territory where you have to start giving the "old guy" a little leeway! It was a scorcher from what they described w/ heat and humidity to boot! I just don't think people realize how poorly you can feel with the court "baking" your feet! My hooves peeled badly after an event played had courts absorbing the Sun's rays and reflected it back into the souls of shoes that weren't enough to protect the skin! We were dancing on the court berween points! The only shade was a wind-breakers on the fence! That just wasn't enough to hide behind! I couldn't wait to get off the court! Novak with-stood that and the relentless attacks of Alcaraz! Both should be proud of their efforts! CA's already scary good and it took everything Novak had to survive yet another test to his longevity!

 

[roberto]

Of course being fit and ready to play in all conditions are the players responsibility, when Tented posted the heat and humid conditions before the match started I knew then Novak would be struggling, he has never done well in hot and humid conditions, though some of the rallies were long and grueling, quite frankly I would have thought either player would try to shorten points in these conditions, as I posted after the match, I am certain both players would have taken long 'ice baths' and also to get the fluid's back in their bodies.I take your point why should his opponent be penalized, it came down to the Umpire and his ruling allowing Novak to leave the court twice.
( sorry for the delay in posting I just came back from my run)

Just to clarify and calm you folks down before y'all need an ice towel lol----the second break, as was explained by Courier during the broadcast after consulting with ATP contacts, , was for an outfit change--wholly within the rules. You might not like the rule which is a different story.....

 

[Nadalfan2013]

Guys, it's looking like we are headed for an Alcaraz def. Djokovic USO final.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Just to clarify and calm you folks down before y'all need an ice towel lol----the second break, as was explained by Courier during the broadcast after consulting with ATP contacts, , was for an outfit change--wholly within the rules. You might not like the rule which is a different story.....

I did not have Courier as a commentator on my stream watching the match for starters. I asked on this post when we were all watching the match live, why was Novak allowed to take another break, as the rule states one break in a 3 set match which is correct., another poster answered me he was also amazed that Novak was allowed to take another break.

 

[Kieran]

Just to clarify and calm you folks down before y'all need an ice towel lol----the second break, as was explained by Courier during the broadcast after consulting with ATP contacts, , was for an outfit change--wholly within the rules. You might not like the rule which is a different story.....

No I don’t like it, but I get what you’re saying. These rules are ridiculous. They’re designed to be abused, and guess what? They are abused. Players should be ready to play, not fussing about with changing their clothes. He can change his shirt and socks and shoes at a change of ends….

 

[Kieran]

Djokovic is hitting "Roger Federer" territory where you have to start giving the "old guy" a little leeway! It was a scorcher from what they described w/ heat and humidity to boot! I just don't think people realize how poorly you can feel with the court "baking" your feet! My hooves peeled badly after an event played had courts absorbing the Sun's rays and reflected it back into the souls of shoes that weren't enough to protect the skin! We were dancing on the court berween points! The only shade was a wind-breakers on the fence! That just wasn't enough to hide behind! I couldn't wait to get off the court! Novak with-stood that and the relentless attacks of Alcaraz! Both should be proud of their efforts! CA's already scary good and it took everything Novak had to survive yet another test to his longevity!

Brother, getting old is part of the game. The umpire doesn’t have an obligation to make exceptions to help any player cope with conditions he’d can’t handle. That disadvantages his opponent…

 

[Fiero425]

No I don’t like it, but I get what you’re saying. These rules are ridiculous. They’re designed to be abused, and guess what? They are abused. Players should be ready to play, not fussing about with changing their clothes. He can change his shirt and socks and shoes at a change of ends….

I think the rule was designed to save lives! How'd you like someone keeling over just playing a game of tennis? I'd rather not! When it's brutal out there, give them an ice towel, an extra break to change clothes, etc.! What's the biggie? People gonna object? Matches are still going 3-4 hours w/ the rules as is! That's men & women' matches on the respective tours! I suppose we could push guys to play faster, but it won't end pretty I can assure you!

 

[Kieran]

I think the rule was designed to save lives! How'd you like someone keeling over just playing a game of tennis? I'd rather not! When it's brutal out there, give them an ice towel, an extra break to change clothes, etc.! What's the biggie? People gonna object? Matches are still going 3-4 hours w/ the rules as is! That's men & women' matches on the respective tours! I suppose we could push guys to play faster, but it won't end pretty I can assure you!

There’s been lives lost playing tennis in a hot country? I must subscribe again to Eurosport, that didn’t show up on the online scoreboard…

 

[the AntiPusher]

No I don’t like it, but I get what you’re saying. These rules are ridiculous. They’re designed to be abused, and guess what? They are abused. Players should be ready to play, not fussing about with changing their clothes. He can change his shirt and socks and shoes at a change of ends….

Kieran, @Kieran recently Roger admitted a few months ago that the mto he took at the Australian Open 2017 was not really a medical time out if I recall correctly.

 

[Kieran]

Kieran, @Kieran recently Roger admitted a few months ago that the mto he took at the Australian Open 2017 was not really a medical time out if I recall correctly.

Yeah, he’s flipped and flopped on that one because obviously Pat Cash called him out on it at the time, after Roger seemed to say he took the MTO against Stan in the semis for mental reasons as much as anything, and I have a vague recollection of him saying that he took the MTO against Rafa because he just wanted to talk to somebody to distract him from the match, and he spoke a little small talk with a tournament worker offstage, and then returned.

They’re open for abuse. Stan accused Rafa of abusing the MTO rule in the 2014 Australian Open final. He obviously was proven wrong on that, but the fact that he reacted that way showed that players themselves know that these things are strategically abused.

With the heat thing that @Fiero425 mentioned, that rule is in Australia that play might be affected not necessarily by rain, but by excessive heat. But how does that apply to Cincy on Sunday? And if the rule does apply there too, then why wasn’t it announced that Novak was taking a perfectly legal break, in conformance with the rules, due to excessive heat?

It wasn’t announced because he didn’t apply for any heat rules break. He abused another rule instead, and obviously this is cheating. Players cheat, just call it what it is…

 

[tented]

 

[don_fabio]

It wasn’t announced because he didn’t apply for any heat rules break. He abused another rule instead, and obviously this is cheating. Players cheat, just call it what it is…

Novak did ask the umpire can he go to change clothes before he even reached the bench and his stuff. Umpire approved it. Novak asked what's not allowed, but it was on the umpire to enforce the rule and say no. It can disrupt the opponent I agree, but it is not much different than when Nadal stalls and takes his time on returns when opponent is serving.

Just look at 3:43:43, USO final 2019 against Medvedev. He took more than a minute to get ready to receive serve since the umpire called time.