Cincinnati Masters 2023, Ohio, US - ATP Masters 1000

Kieran

The GOAT
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
16,880
Reactions
7,080
Points
113
Carlitos lost the match in the 2nd set..he had the ole Lion wounded and near death.. I would have chip and charged at that point to force Novak's mind to feel more pressure..just my two cents worth
Definitely was a moment there, wasn’t there? But Carlos seems to have gotten tight. I think he’s gone so far ahead in his achievements compared to his experience that we often forget, this youngster is in new situations almost every time he steps on court, and he’s trying to process it all so fast..
 

PhiEaglesfan712

Masters Champion
Joined
Sep 7, 2022
Messages
805
Reactions
822
Points
93
How do you come up with your scenarios? I'm curious
Think about it for a second. Djokovic winning a slam now would be like if Agassi won the US Open in 2005. Great for their legacies, but it really doesn't do much good for the game going forward. Now if a young player like Sinner or Rune were to win a slam, Carlos would have a main rival going forward and men's tennis will have officially moved to the next generation.

That's what made the 2000s decade so special when Roger, Rafa, and Novak won their first slams.
 
Last edited:

Nadalfan2013

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Aug 23, 2018
Messages
2,736
Reactions
1,395
Points
113
Footage of a Djokovic practice session from today...

pushing.gif
 
  • Wow
Reactions: PhiEaglesfan712

tossip

Grand Slam Champion
Joined
Apr 15, 2013
Messages
6,879
Reactions
2,311
Points
113
Summary of the match:

1) Djokovic is completely exhausted, looks like he is going to die and needs an ambulance
2) His team prepare him his usual magical drink
3) He takes the usual long bathroom break
4) Then he magically becomes Superman and even by the end of the match he looks like he could still play for another 10 hours

Et voila, the usual Djokovic series of events! NID!
That's why I never support him,there is a lot going in his matches.The medical timeout,bathroom breaks and suspicious drinks.He is always playing some game on his opponents.The elixir he always gets must contain something that makes him super human at 36 yrs.He must accept that the jig is up.. US Open is not his this year.
 

the AntiPusher

The GOAT
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
16,074
Reactions
6,341
Points
113
That's why I never support him,there is a lot going in his matches.The medical timeout,bathroom breaks and suspicious drinks.He is always playing some game on his opponents.The elixir he always gets must contain something that makes him super human at 36 yrs.He must accept that the jig is up.. US Open is not his this year.
His first match vs Gael Novak pulled a rope a dope.. Roger and Rafa NEVER fell for his act.
 
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: Fiero425 and tossip

Kieran

The GOAT
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
16,880
Reactions
7,080
Points
113
That's why I never support him,there is a lot going in his matches.The medical timeout,bathroom breaks and suspicious drinks.He is always playing some game on his opponents.The elixir he always gets must contain something that makes him super human at 36 yrs.He must accept that the jig is up.. US Open is not his this year.
I think the USO is his best last chance to win another slam. Some people will say, WTF, Australia! But Australia is almost half a year away, and he’ll be nearer 37. That’s an age where even his miracle swig might struggle. Especially when Carlos is racing so fast that a disaster in Paris was turned into gold in London. It’s possible that a terrible disappointment in Cincy might similarly be turned into gold in New York. He’s moving quick. He has the Midas touch. Everything is a new experience for him, but he’s gobbling them up and they’re making him better.

By the time the Australian Open comes around, Carlos could be at that brilliant stage of a great career where he finally knows what to do because he’s experienced it often enough, and not because he understands it theoretically through his coach and his YouTube premium subscription. He could be at that stage.

So Novak will be still a contender in Australia, but he’s gotten patsy draws there the last 3 times he played. Let’s face it. Floating corpses in the final. Similar to his previous 2 Wimbledons, where Nick Kyrgios represented the high point that western civilisation had to offer. Think about that.

Then Novak faced Carlos.

The USO is a better opportunity for Novak also because Carlos is still in that beginners stage for greatness where he’s now having to face the prospect of defending a slam title. Try remember how Novak managed that. That’s not so easy, and it’s very different to last year. Carlos can’t help this. We get frustrated by his cramps and his bp percentage but he’s having to figure things out in real time, and they’re complex because he’s having to basically play blindfolded speed chess simultaneously against a dozen hungry grandmasters while learning to pedal a unicycle, because that’s part of the deal. You fall off, you lose. And yet to us, we often just see it as being more or less the same thing as last year, but a bit different.

It’s a lot different. It’s a huge difference and he might have to fall off a few more times to gain the experience he needs. Nobody can know that yet.

I’d say that the best comparison with Carlos situation isn’t necessarily Rafa, because although they’re both exceptional and tough and Spanish and high achieving as teenagers. Rafa had a strong number one who was getting even more attention, and was facing the immediate expectation of greater success. The closest we’ve seen to Carlos is Boris Becker, who at 17 transformed the sport while facing huge attention and pressure to win every match he played - because he looked like he could..
 

tossip

Grand Slam Champion
Joined
Apr 15, 2013
Messages
6,879
Reactions
2,311
Points
113
Carlos makes tennis looks so easy,he has a natural feel for tennis.I want him to really tighten up his return game because he was hitting a lot of the balls into the net.Joko is very sneaky with his tactics,I am putting an asterisk on his Cincy win.I hope ITF is taking note of his antics and give him a draw from hell.
 

Kieran

The GOAT
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
16,880
Reactions
7,080
Points
113
Carlos makes tennis looks so easy,he has a natural feel for tennis.I want him to really tighten up his return game because he was hitting a lot of the balls into the net.Joko is very sneaky with his tactics,I am putting an asterisk on his Cincy win.I hope ITF is taking note of his antics and give him a draw from hell.
Well his antics and playacting are not only suspicious and unsporting, but they tend to be a form of cheating too. Definitely the rules need looking at if players need toilet breaks in a best of 3. Players used to play five sets without even a seat at the change of ends, but now these toilet breaks and wardrobe changes, shifty MTO’s, have become a form of cheating…
 

atttomole

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Apr 15, 2013
Messages
3,315
Reactions
1,101
Points
113
I think the USO is his best last chance to win another slam. Some people will say, WTF, Australia! But Australia is almost half a year away, and he’ll be nearer 37. That’s an age where even his miracle swig might struggle. Especially when Carlos is racing so fast that a disaster in Paris was turned into gold in London. It’s possible that a terrible disappointment in Cincy might similarly be turned into gold in New York. He’s moving quick. He has the Midas touch. Everything is a new experience for him, but he’s gobbling them up and they’re making him better.

By the time the Australian Open comes around, Carlos could be at that brilliant stage of a great career where he finally knows what to do because he’s experienced it often enough, and not because he understands it theoretically through his coach and his YouTube premium subscription. He could be at that stage.

So Novak will be still a contender in Australia, but he’s gotten patsy draws there the last 3 times he played. Let’s face it. Floating corpses in the final. Similar to his previous 2 Wimbledons, where Nick Kyrgios represented the high point that western civilisation had to offer. Think about that.

Then Novak faced Carlos.

The USO is a better opportunity for Novak also because Carlos is still in that beginners stage for greatness where he’s now having to face the prospect of defending a slam title. Try remember how Novak managed that. That’s not so easy, and it’s very different to last year. Carlos can’t help this. We get frustrated by his cramps and his bp percentage but he’s having to figure things out in real time, and they’re complex because he’s having to basically play blindfolded speed chess simultaneously against a dozen hungry grandmasters while learning to pedal a unicycle, because that’s part of the deal. You fall off, you lose. And yet to us, we often just see it as being more or less the same thing as last year, but a bit different.

It’s a lot different. It’s a huge difference and he might have to fall off a few more times to gain the experience he needs. Nobody can know that yet.

I’d say that the best comparison with Carlos situation isn’t necessarily Rafa, because although they’re both exceptional and tough and Spanish and high achieving as teenagers. Rafa had a strong number one who was getting even more attention, and was facing the immediate expectation of greater success. The closest we’ve seen to Carlos is Boris Becker, who at 17 transformed the sport while facing huge attention and pressure to win every match he played - because he looked like he could..
Most slams are full of easy draws for all top players to be honest, until maybe the quarterfinals, not just for Djokovic. Carlito is unique. He can grind like Nadal, but he can also play short points when he wants to, because of his excellent serve. He can play every type of tennis, and I don’t think Djokovic likes playing against him at this point.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Moxie and nehmeth

Kieran

The GOAT
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
16,880
Reactions
7,080
Points
113
Most slams are full of easy draws for all top players to be honest, until maybe the quarterfinals, not just for Djokovic.

For Djoker it was all the way through those draws.
Carlito is unique. He can grind like Nadal, but he can also play short points when he wants to, because of his excellent serve. He can play every type of tennis, and I don’t think Djokovic likes playing against him at this point.


Carlitos is unique, and you’re right, he’s not a type Novak likes to play. Carlos can pull a rabbit out of the hat. He can changed direction and confuse. And he makes life a struggle for his opponent. Some of his shot making is among the best I’ve ever seen..
 

PhiEaglesfan712

Masters Champion
Joined
Sep 7, 2022
Messages
805
Reactions
822
Points
93
But Carlos winning everything won't be fun either. I am glad that Federer, Nadal, and even Djokovic broke through when they did. It was much better for the game than if Hewitt or Federer had dominated for years on end in the 2000s. Sinner, Rune, and other youngsters breaking through and winning slams will be much better moments for the game of men's tennis than Carlos winning yet another slam.
 

roberto

Futures Player
Joined
May 20, 2017
Messages
136
Reactions
132
Points
43
Well his antics and playacting are not only suspicious and unsporting, but they tend to be a form of cheating too. Definitely the rules need looking at if players need toilet breaks in a best of 3. Players used to play five sets without even a seat at the change of ends, but now these toilet breaks and wardrobe changes, shifty MTO’s, have become a form of cheating…
LOLOL
 
  • Like
Reactions: Fiero425

Fiero425

The GOAT
Joined
Jul 23, 2013
Messages
11,233
Reactions
2,449
Points
113
Location
Chicago, IL
Website
fiero4251.blogspot.com
Yes, they train together and the young man gives advices to Novak.

What's even worse they stick microphones to the players boxes and now half of the match broadcasting is about the coaches. They keep showing their faces, you can hear it all what they say, etc...it's distracting to us as viewers and players don't need all that pep talk between points.

What bothered me the most was how "hysterical" Jim Courier became over Novak taking another clothing change break! He was freakin' out! :face-with-head-bandage:
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Kieran

Fiero425

The GOAT
Joined
Jul 23, 2013
Messages
11,233
Reactions
2,449
Points
113
Location
Chicago, IL
Website
fiero4251.blogspot.com
Well his antics and playacting are not only suspicious and unsporting, but they tend to be a form of cheating too. Definitely the rules need looking at if players need toilet breaks in a best of 3. Players used to play five sets without even a seat at the change of ends, but now these toilet breaks and wardrobe changes, shifty MTO’s, have become a form of cheating…

OCO; you know better than that! Trying to compare tennis was pre-Open days to today is ridiculous! It's faster, tougher, & just plain grueling these days! Points way back when rarely went over 3 or 4 shots! Carlos & Novak had points that went 20-30 strokes, games lasting 10-18 min.! Even w/ conditioning, they're both gasping for air; even the kid! Novak has played many of these record breaking contests; Madrid SF vs Rafa went 4 hours, the '12 AO final almost 6 hours, & now this Masters final going almost 4 hours! I'm just glad that umpire didn't give Novak more than 1 warning b/c he was bouncing the ball a lot near the end of the match! :astonished-face: :fearful-face: :yawningface: :face-with-hand-over-mouth: :face-with-tears-of-joy:
 

Kieran

The GOAT
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
16,880
Reactions
7,080
Points
113
What bothered me the most was how "hysterical" Jim Courier became over Novak taking another clothing change break! He was freakin' out! :face-with-head-bandage:
Shocking! It’s a human rights issue, really. Every diva is entitled to multiple costume changes during the show. WTF went wrong here? Fricking Nazis stopped him taking a few more hours between games to change costumes..

:face-with-head-bandage:
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Fiero425

Kieran

The GOAT
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
16,880
Reactions
7,080
Points
113
OCO; you know better than that! Trying to compare tennis was pre-Open days to today is ridiculous! It's faster, tougher, & just plain grueling these days! Points way back when rarely went over 3 or 4 shots! Carlos & Novak had points that went 20-30 strokes, games lasting 10-18 min.! Even w/ conditioning, they're both gasping for air; even the kid! Novak has played many of these record breaking contests; Madrid SF vs Rafa went 4 hours, the '12 AO final almost 6 hours, & now this Masters final going almost 4 hours! I'm just glad that umpire didn't give Novak more than 1 warning b/c he was bouncing the ball a lot near the end of the match! :astonished-face: :fearful-face: :yawningface: :face-with-hand-over-mouth: :face-with-tears-of-joy:
It would be fine if it was new. It’s not new with him. It’s standard when he’s losing.

OCO; you know better than this…
 
  • Like
Reactions: MargaretMcAleer

MargaretMcAleer

The GOAT
Joined
Apr 30, 2013
Messages
42,000
Reactions
27,861
Points
113
Kieran,

I asked at the time when Novak was allowed a 2nd toilet break? as in a 3 set match only 1 break is allowed?
Even Don Fabio was amazed Novak was allowed a 2nd toilet break, all I could think of was of the hot and humid conditions that the umpire allowed it
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kieran