Cincinnati Masters 2023, Ohio, US - ATP Masters 1000

[Kieran]

Novak did ask the umpire can he go to change clothes before he even reached the bench and his stuff. Umpire approved it. Novak asked what's not allowed, but it was on the umpire to enforce the rule and say no. It can disrupt the opponent I agree, but it is not much different than when Nadal stalls and takes his time on returns when opponent is serving.

Just look at 3:43:43, USO final 2019 against Medvedev. He took more than a minute to get ready to receive serve since the umpire called time.

Hey brother, there’s people who might complain here about whataboutism, but I agree with you. I agree with whataboutism too. It’s how we establish precedent in law which is a foundation stone in ensuring that justice is blind - and consistent. So when somebody uses whataboutism in a proper way, I agree with them.

I agree with you about Rafa and the time clock. I’ve always said so. The umpire ought to call him on it. Do I think Rafa is deliberately trying to hold up his opponent? Largely, no. I just think he’s teeming with so many tics and OCD mannerisms that he has to slide rule his water bottles, pull at his shirt and adjust his headband, and tug at his arsenal. It’s up to the umpire to intercede and I don’t complain when he does.

Especially when Rafa is going full frontal and chugging at his private member’s bill, I think the umpire really needs to tell him that ‘Hey fella, you’re not Elvis, we’re not filming you from the waist up - PLAY!’

But Novak knows the rules too. He knows how many toilet breaks and then he knows there’s a costume change permitted too. Umpire is only going to be able to confirm this. And Novak is going to take his damn time about it, the hell with his opponent. He knows it causes disruption while also giving him time to regroup. He’s been faking injuries and manufacturing strategic MTO’s for years now.

And sorry, I know that this are considered legit because he claims he needs to use the toilet or he needs to change his shirt, but we know what his real aim is…

 

[Nadalfan2013]

Novak did ask the umpire can he go to change clothes before he even reached the bench and his stuff. Umpire approved it. Novak asked what's not allowed, but it was on the umpire to enforce the rule and say no. It can disrupt the opponent I agree, but it is not much different than when Nadal stalls and takes his time on returns when opponent is serving.

Just look at 3:43:43, USO final 2019 against Medvedev. He took more than a minute to get ready to receive serve since the umpire called time.

Lol, you are clueless. He had to put the towels on the sides of the court cause it's the start of the set and also the referee said to the crowd "silence please" so that already took some time. It was at the very beginning of the set so it was not the end of the world if there's a little delay and putting everything in place for the start of the 5th set. Eugenie Bouchard was right when she said that Djokovic & his fans are "crybaby".

 

[Kieran]

Lol, you are clueless. He had to put the towels on the sides of the court cause it's the start of the set and also the referee said to the crowd "silence please" so that already took some time. It was at the very beginning of the set so it was not the end of the world if there's a little delay and putting everything in place for the start of the 5th set. Eugenie Bouchard was right when she said that Djokovic & his fans are "crybaby".

You’re picking exactly the fan who’s not a fanboy to insult…

 

[don_fabio]

And sorry, I know that this are considered legit because he claims he needs to use the toilet or he needs to change his shirt, but we know what his real aim is…

I don't think he can help himself. It's similar to how the AO deportation case was handled.

I think the way he grew up and the surroundings, the country where he lived, it all shaped him. He also carries the genes from his father (who hard to argue is an idiot) and he raised him. Where he grew up it's also considered normal to break the rules. People over there break rules and cheat where ever they can in all layers of the society and get away with it, so when you look at that for many years you also start to think it's normal, everyone is doing it so I might do as well.

Now Novak is famous for all that he has achieved, but he has this what we call "balkan mentality" (refering to the area he comes from) in him and it never went away, despite all the years spent abroad and him trying to act nice and all. It always comes out on the surface. It's rooted in him deeply due to all reasons that I mentioned above. There is always me/us against the world in the balkans, we are fighting for our cause whatever others might say. I might also cheat and break some rules to gain advantage. We also have a saying you play by the book, you be a good guy and then you eat a shit.

I'm not trying to defend him, just stating why he probably is the way he is and why it is easier for me to connect with him as he is "one of ours" and it's okay for me to accept when he is wrong and at the same time I can also understand what he tried to do in certain situations. I hope all that I wrote makes some sense to you.

 

[don_fabio]

You’re picking exactly the fan who’s not a fanboy to insult…

That's all right, @Nadalfan2013 doesn't mean harm, he/she just loves Nadal more than anything.

 

[Kieran]

I don't think he can help himself. It's similar to how the AO deportation case was handled.

I think the way he grew up and the surroundings, the country where he lived, it all shaped him. He also carries the genes from his father (who hard to argue is an idiot) and he raised him. Where he grew up it's also considered normal to break the rules. People over there break rules and cheat where ever they can in all layers of the society and get away with it, so when you look at that for many years you also start to think it's normal, everyone is doing it so I might do as well.

Now Novak is famous for all that he has achieved, but he has this what we call "balkan mentality" (refering to the area he comes from) in him and it never went away, despite all the years spent abroad and him trying to act nice and all. It always comes out on the surface. It's rooted in him deeply due to all reasons that I mentioned above. There is always me/us against the world in the balkans, we are fighting for our cause whatever others might say. I might also cheat and break some rules to gain advantage. We also have a saying you play by the book, you be a good guy and then you eat a shit.

I'm not trying to defend him, just stating why he probably is the way he is and why it is easier for me to connect with him as he is "one of ours" and it's okay for me to accept when he is wrong and at the same time I can also understand what he tried to do in certain situations. I hope all that I wrote makes some sense to you.

Very much makes sense, well written and helpful in understanding people from the region. I kind of sympathise with him in a way - if it didn’t affect Rafa so much!

 

[atttomole]

Hey brother, there’s people who might complain here about whataboutism, but I agree with you. I agree with whataboutism too. It’s how we establish precedent in law which is a foundation stone in ensuring that justice is blind - and consistent. So when somebody uses whataboutism in a proper way, I agree with them.

I agree with you about Rafa and the time clock. I’ve always said so. The umpire ought to call him on it. Do I think Rafa is deliberately trying to hold up his opponent? Largely, no. I just think he’s teeming with so many tics and OCD mannerisms that he has to slide rule his water bottles, pull at his shirt and adjust his headband, and tug at his arsenal. It’s up to the umpire to intercede and I don’t complain when he does.

Especially when Rafa is going full frontal and chugging at his private member’s bill, I think the umpire really needs to tell him that ‘Hey fella, you’re not Elvis, we’re not filming you from the waist up - PLAY!’

But Novak knows the rules too. He knows how many toilet breaks and then he knows there’s a costume change permitted too. Umpire is only going to be able to confirm this. And Novak is going to take his damn time about it, the hell with his opponent. He knows it causes disruption while also giving him time to regroup. He’s been faking injuries and manufacturing strategic MTO’s for years now.

And sorry, I know that this are considered legit because he claims he needs to use the toilet or he needs to change his shirt, but we know what his real aim is…

In simple words, Nadal and Djokovic break the rules often? I think Djokovic learned from Nadal. Because they are superstars, they get away with it most of the time.

 

[Kieran]

In simple words, Nadal and Djokovic break the rules often? I think Djokovic learned from Nadal. Because they are superstars, they get away with it most of the time.

Correction: they break the rules differently..

 

[Front242]

I think the rule was designed to save lives! How'd you like someone keeling over just playing a game of tennis? I'd rather not! When it's brutal out there, give them an ice towel, an extra break to change clothes, etc.! What's the biggie? People gonna object? Matches are still going 3-4 hours w/ the rules as is! That's men & women' matches on the respective tours! I suppose we could push guys to play faster, but it won't end pretty I can assure you!

Alcaraz was able to play 3 sets for almost 4 hours all while reeking of sweat though so why not Djokovic too? It's not like they were in a club trying to score.

 

[roberto]

If I were to complain about the rules--it would be the "experiment" of allowing coaching curing the matches. I don't think Carlos would be able to wipe his butt without JCF giving him the go ahead. Now I think Carlos is IMMENSELY TALENTED and destined to be an all time great. All the more reason that non-stop advice from his coach is absurd.

 

[Kieran]

If I were to complain about the rules--it would be the "experiment" of allowing coaching curing the matches. I don't think Carlos would be able to wipe his butt without JCF giving him the go ahead. Now I think Carlos is IMMENSELY TALENTED and destined to be an all time great. All the more reason that non-stop advice from his coach is absurd.

Totally agree about the coaching part, it’s turning men into wimps out there, with people who are basically bagmen and ball collectors crudely gesticulating from the posh seats at legends. The way tennis is going, with all officially sanctioned toilet breaks, wardrobe changes, MTOs, coaching during the match, they might as well go the whole hog and let them have a sauna, a haircut, a massage and a manicure during the match, so they don’t feel too stressed running around.

This all began when they started treating ballkids as waiters and towel carriers. The players are getting too mollycoddled out there now…

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Totally agree about the coaching part, it’s turning men into wimps out there, with people who are basically bagmen and ball collectors crudely gesticulating from the posh seats at legends. The way tennis is going, with all officially sanctioned toilet breaks, wardrobe changes, MTOs, coaching during the match, they might as well go the whole hog and let them have a sauna, a haircut, a massage and a manicure during the match, so they don’t feel too stressed running around.

This all began when they started treating ballkids as waiters and towel carriers. The players are getting too mollycoddled out there now…

I remember when the rule was changed in the ATP. Patrick M was one of the first coaches to applaud it, saying hand signals etc were going on for a long time

 

[Kieran]

I remember when the rule was changed in the ATP. Patrick M was one of the first coaches to applaud it, saying hand signals etc were going on for a long time

Of course. He’d like to be a celebrity, with his own entourage. People like him think they’re the ones that matter in the game…

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Of course. He’d like to be a celebrity, with his own entourage. People like him think they’re the ones that matter in the game…

Remember that incident at the USO when Serena was warned that Patrick M was giving her signals? during the match, hell broke out after that incident

 

[Kieran]

Remember that incident at the USO when Serena was warned that Patrick M was giving her signals? during the match, hell broke out after that incident

One of the ugliest scenes ever. When she screeched that she wouldn’t lie out chat or whatever because she’s a mother I spit my popcorn. She was a disgrace, the fans were animals, and Pat Mouthpiece casually called her a liar next day where he’d said yeah sure I was coaching her…

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

One of the ugliest scenes ever. When she screeched that she wouldn’t lie out chat or whatever because she’s a mother I spit my popcorn. She was a disgrace, the fans were animals, and Pat Mouthpiece casually called her a liar next day where he’d said yeah sure I was coaching her…

It was a ugly scene, sad to say, hopefully we wont have to witness anything like that again,
Patrick always covers himself in any situations.

 

[Fiero425]

Totally agree about the coaching part, it’s turning men into wimps out there, with people who are basically bagmen and ball collectors crudely gesticulating from the posh seats at legends. The way tennis is going, with all officially sanctioned toilet breaks, wardrobe changes, MTOs, coaching during the match, they might as well go the whole hog and let them have a sauna, a haircut, a massage and a manicure during the match, so they don’t feel too stressed running around.

This all began when they started treating ballkids as waiters and towel carriers. The players are getting too mollycoddled out there now…

I always thought Rafa used the ballkids as indentured servants w/ towels at every corner of the court, someone to handle his bot'ls, etc.!

 

[Kieran]

I always thought Rafa used the ballkids as indentured servants w/ towels at every corner of the court, someone to handle his bot'ls, etc.!

He did, and it’s not nice, handing these filthy wet towels to children, like something out of Dickens..

 

[Moxie]

I'm rather late weighing in on this match due to travels, but I did manage to watch the match on replay with my brother, with us not knowing the outcome. It was a pretty great match! I was disappointed that Carlitos couldn't keep his foot on Novak's neck in the 2nd when he was clearly suffering with the heat and down for the count. But he didn't fold in the 3rd, so my takeaway is that it's not a bad place for Alcaraz to be in, going into the USO. A) He played the best he's played since the Wimbledon final, meaning he upped his game a lot to play Djokovic, and B) he's definitely given Novak something to think about when they face each other, over the past 2 times they've met.

I definitely heard Courier clarifying that the kit change was allowable due to a heat rule. I think some fine points have been discussed on that which I may have missed, but I did understand that it was within the rules.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

I'm rather late weighing in on this match due to travels, but I did manage to watch the match on replay with my brother, with us not knowing the outcome. It was a pretty great match! I was disappointed that Carlitos couldn't keep his foot on Novak's neck in the 2nd when he was clearly suffering with the heat and down for the count. But he didn't fold in the 3rd, so my takeaway is that it's not a bad place for Alcaraz to be in, going into the USO. A) He played the best he's played since the Wimbledon final, meaning he upped his game a lot to play Djokovic, and B) he's definitely given Novak something to think about when they face each other, over the past 2 times they've met.

I definitely heard Courier clarifying that the kit change was allowable due to a heat rule. I think some fine points have been discussed on that which I may have missed, but I did understand that it was within the rules.

Agree with your comments that Charly upped his game in the final with Novak, ,yes I thought he would win in straight sets, a few UFE from Charly towards the end of the 2nd set , headed for a TB and we all witness the final TB of the match, overall happy with his performance going into the USO.
Seeing I did not have Courier as a commentator on my stream, I was amazed that Novak was allowed a 2nd break, though another poster told me, yesterday that Courier did clarified the kit change was allowable due to a heat rule.