2022 Wimbledon F: Djokovic vs. Kyrgios

[Kieran]

Exactly, as i said, it was a conspiracy theory… same as any claims about novak.

this is why i love being a novak fan, he is such a disrupter of the fedal religious cult and the woke governments trying to control people. When he does well, he makes people go nuts.. call it nole derangement syndrome. Love it…. Meanwhile he continues to erase fedal from record books despite having to deal with opponents on court and off court, which include media and powerful governments. Nothing can stop him though…

You’re too narrowly fixated. We’ve all praised Novak for what he does. I said it myself, he deserved his title and I’d prefer him to win these titles than players like Kyrgios or Tsitsipas. The same thing you accuse us all of doing, you’re the one who’s actually doing it: you’re attacking Nadal and continually insisting his Australian open win isn’t legit, even though this makes no sense. You’re the begrudger, not us…

 

[TheSicilian]

Analyzing some stats.. no nick didn’t choke or played badly ( let the fedal chorus begin) he played well.
62 winners vs 33 UFE, 30 aces. He would’ve beaten many greats playing this well.

ramarkably, even though he hit 30 aces, hit 73% of his 1st serves in and averaged around 130mph first serve and over 110mph second serve, he won less 1st and 2nd serve points than djokovic did! Novak won 83% of 1st serve points vs nick winning 70%. On second serve points won, novak had edge 61% vs 53%. Remarkable, any other player facing a nick kyrgios serving at 70%+ and averaging such speeds, would’ve lost!

I just checked the stats of Nick v Rafa Wimbledon 2019.

29 Aces, 3 Double faults. 71% 1st serves in. 58 Winners, 27 unforced errors. 2 out of 2 Break points converted. Very similar numbers. Rafa won 3-1 in sets same as yesterday

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Okay I am a lover of doubles and witnessed a great finals match at Wimbledon between Aussie pair Matt Ebden/ Max Purcell (14) who defeated the defending Croat pair of Pavic/Metkic (2) Pavic played with a broken bone in his wrist,
Aussie pair d Croat pair 76 67 46 64 76 in a match that went for over 5 hours, with momentum shifts, in the match.
There has been discussion's that the mens doubles should now be the best of 3 sets?
Seasoned doubles players I feel are used to playing the best of 5, though I noticed Nick Kyrgios, who won the mens doubles at the AO this year, is strongly in favor of playing the best of 3 sets.
Thoughts?

 

[Kieran]

Okay I am a lover of doubles and witnessed a great finals match at Wimbledon between Aussie pair Matt Ebden/ Max Purcell (14) who defeated the defending Croat pair of Pavic/Metkic (2) Pavic played with a broken bone in his wrist,
Aussie pair d Croat pair 76 67 46 64 76 in a match that went for over 5 hours, with momentum shifts, in the match.
There has been discussion's that the mens doubles should now be the best of 3 sets?
Seasoned doubles players I feel are used to playing the best of 5, though I noticed Nick Kyrgios, who won the mens doubles at the AO this year, is strongly in favor of playing the best of 3 sets.
Thoughts?

Don’t mess with perfection. Leave it five. It’s like calls to make test cricket matches more accessible, less than 5 days, appeal to the short attention span generation. I say leave these things alone, they’re classical in structure, they have the weight of history and tradition behind them - and people will appreciate it in the long run…

 

[MikeOne]

Mike can I ask you when you became a Novak Fan...thanks.

I’ll tell you since u asked. 2008, when i saw what he did at AO… i saw remarkable talent and athletic ability. He was like an agassi (inside the court, moving opponent) and a lleyton hewitt (speed, defense) combined but taller, more athletic and with a better serve. When i saw that display at 08 AO, i thought he had the game to be goat… then during 09-10 when we was down, dismissed, even put down by players when he retired and lacked fitness, i knew.. i believed in him… i heve been right all along with novak… even when he was down and proud about it.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

I’ll tell you since u asked. 2008, when i saw what he did at AO… i saw remarkable talent and athletic ability. He was like an agassi (inside the court, moving opponent) and a lleyton hewitt (speed, defense) combined but taller, more athletic and with a better serve. When i saw that display at 08 AO, i thought he had the game to be goat… then during 09-10 when we was down, dismissed, even put down by players when he retired and lacked fitness, i knew.. i believed in him… i heve been right all along with novak… even when he was down and proud about it.

I was live at the AO 08 when Novak won his first GS title.Okay thanks

 

[TheSicilian]

Okay I am a lover of doubles and witnessed a great finals match at Wimbledon between Aussie pair Matt Ebden/ Max Purcell (14) who defeated the defending Croat pair of Pavic/Metkic (2) Pavic played with a broken bone in his wrist,
Aussie pair d Croat pair 76 67 46 64 76 in a match that went for over 5 hours, with momentum shifts, in the match.
There has been discussion's that the mens doubles should now be the best of 3 sets?
Seasoned doubles players I feel are used to playing the best of 5, though I noticed Nick Kyrgios, who won the mens doubles at the AO this year, is strongly in favor of playing the best of 3 sets.
Thoughts?

It's crazy how he played with a broken bone. The more best of 5 set matches the better imo. If Nick wants to play doubles play mixed

 

[Kieran]

I’ll tell you since u asked. 2008, when i saw what he did at AO… i saw remarkable talent and athletic ability. He was like an agassi (inside the court, moving opponent) and a lleyton hewitt (speed, defense) combined but taller, more athletic and with a better serve. When i saw that display at 08 AO, i thought he had the game to be goat… then during 09-10 when we was down, dismissed, even put down by players when he retired and lacked fitness, i knew.. i believed in him… i heve been right all along with novak… even when he was down and proud about it.

He used to quit matches when they got too much for him, but his mentality changed in 2010 when he helped Serbia win the DC. He became a mental giant after this. Do you think he’ll ever have the great Marjan Vajda back on the team?

 

[Moxie]

The doping accounts/articles make an interesting point about Djokovic. After the Sharapova doping scandal, Djokovic's form went downhill, he didn't win a slam for 2.5 years. He went from winning 4 in a row to failing to win any of the next 8.

I looked up the timing. Meldonium was a banned starting beginning of the year in 2016, and Maria tested positive at the AO. She spoke about her ban in March of that year. Novak did NOT test positive for it at the AO, and he did win it. He also went on to win the FO. I'm inclined to go with Kieran's saying that what happened to Novak was a natural sink after the "Nole Slam." He also cited "personal problems." Somewhere in that time there was also a surgery/medical intervention, early in 2018, I think. And he returned to top form by later in 2018. I don't see making anything of the meldonium connection in Novak's case. Also, as you say, whatever he was huffing on court, it's hard to think he was a banned substance. This is a guy who won't take the vaccine, and barely eats meat. He may go for some odd cure-alls, but it's hard to imagine what we were seeing was a PED.

 

[Kieran]

He also cited "personal problems."

That’s right. There were two of them, as I recall, both from Bollywood

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

It's crazy how he played with a broken bone. The more best of 5 set matches the better imo. If Nick wants to play doubles play mixed

Quite frankly I dont think Nick has physical ability to play 5 sets at doubles, he surprised me going 4 sets with Novak in singles

 

[Moxie]

For me, Djokovic has been the maker of his own problems. He is not nor does he seem to have a great PR strategy or team in place to navigate his dicey choices. He seems to have this great smugness and sneer that comes across when caught in questionable situations. With Djokovic, there never is any sense that he feels he did anything wrong or could have approached things differently which goes a long way in public perception.

This! By which I mean the whole post, but especially the bolded above. In his presser at Wimbledon prior to the start of the tournament, Novak said that he probably wouldn't be able to play the USO, but that he had "no control" over that. Even Chris Fowler (Kskate's "Ken Doll") was taken a little aback by this, saying, that, well, technically he DOES have control over that...he could get vaccinated. It seems to many of us that Djokovic's PR team IS lacking, and it seems his team is full of "yes-men." That he does rather exist in an echo-chamber. The bolded above, as to public perception, is very much about that. It's not that the world is against him, but that he commits so many unforced errors in terms of public sentiment, when things go awry. Humility is not his strong suit, but that's what people miss from him. He said he would learn from his default at the USO, but then he declared, shortly after, that he is who he is, and showing emotions on court is his way. Racquets will be smashed, etc. And he actually does act as if he has learned nothing.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

He used to quit matches when they got too much for him, but his mentality changed in 2010 when he helped Serbia win the DC. He became a mental giant after this. Do you think he’ll ever have the great Marjan Vajda back on the team?

I still cant get my head around why did Novak hire that weirdo guru Pepe on his team? then sacked all his team including Vajda?
Personally speaking Vajda and Novak wont be working together, there is still some 'grey area' the real reason they broke up for a second time late last year?
Vajda has moved on and his coaching another player. Molcan

 

[MikeOne]

For me, Djokovic has been the maker of his own problems. He is not nor does he seem to have a great PR strategy or team in place to navigate his dicey choices. He seems to have this great smugness and sneer that comes across when caught in questionable situations. With Djokovic, there never is any sense that he feels he did anything wrong or could have approached things differently which goes a long way in public perception.

Problem is you can’t back any of these claims..

he hit someone UNINTENTIONALLY at USO and then apologized, owned it.
He had been very open about his stance not to get vaccinated yet AO authorities gave him green light to come (victorian state and AO ), then government intervened and deported him. He handled it all well, making a statement about respecting courts and moving on. He has never advocated for others not to get vaccinated just that he believes he doesn’t need to and we should respect that

So far, nothing here..

what else? Oh accusations that he takes drugs during bathroom breaks? Call that derangement from those making these accusations.. pathetic

What else? Nothing, u have nothing. Are you a better person that djokovic? He is imperfect, that’s his crime? I usually and more suspicious of anyone claiming to be perfect, watch out for those!

Djokovic is one of the most gracious players in defeat and should set the example of how to conduct yourself professionally, his work ethic, mental fortitude, dedication, ability to come back from being down… i would have kids emulate him, more that federer or nadal who set an almost false standard of being perfect humans, an impossibility.

Fact is you have absolutely nothing to stand on, same as the trolls who accuse rafa nadal of gamesmanship by going over time limits all the time, having being coached by toni nadal during matches at times (federer even made the accusation), being a primadonna like making people wait for him on court ( navratilova accuses him of this). Had djokovic done to sonego what nadal did peopke would be a scolding djokivic but nadal can do it. In the end, i defended nadal against this type of BS in past as it’s nothing, came from nadal haters.

you really have nothing but point to a few flaws here and there as if djokivic is a robot… it all comes from a position of jelously, hate or misunderstanding rather than an objective analysis of who he is.

in the end, it’s mostly about how we are witnessing him erasing fedal from record books… this is the fuel of the attacks, mostly because when look at djokovic, there is much more good than bad, he has been great for the sport, at the expense of fanboys who would’ve preferred fedal to get 30 slams each… would that have been better for tennis?

 

[TheSicilian]

I looked up the timing. Meldonium was a banned starting beginning of the year in 2016, and Maria tested positive at the AO. She spoke about her ban in March of that year. Novak did NOT test positive for it at the AO, and he did win it. He also went on to win the FO. I'm inclined to go with Kieran's saying that what happened to Novak was a natural sink after the "Nole Slam." He also cited "personal problems." Somewhere in that time there was also a surgery/medical intervention, early in 2018, I think. And he returned to top form by later in 2018. I don't see making anything of the meldonium connection in Novak's case. Also, as you say, whatever he was huffing on court, it's hard to think he was a banned substance. This is a guy who won't take the vaccine, and barely eats meat. He may go for some odd cure-alls, but it's hard to imagine what we were seeing was a PED.

I wasn't suggesting he was taking the same medication. But what I have read from the doping sites in the past is how his form went downhill at a similar time to the Sharapova scandal, the blog I read suggested if he was on anything he stopped because the doping testing apparently became stricter after the Sharapova scandal. I saw a video earlier on twitter apparently he is going to sell this supplement magic potion inhaler. I don't buy his anti medication stance. Did you see the article the other day about how he drank every strong painkiller in the world during the AO last year?

 

[Kieran]

Problem is you can’t back any of these claims..

he hit someone UNINTENTIONALLY at USO and then apologized, owned it.
He had been very open about his stance not to get vaccinated yet AO authorities gave him green light to come (victorian state and AO ), then government intervened and deported him. He handled it all well, making a statement about respecting courts and moving on. He has never advocated for others not to get vaccinated just that he believes he doesn’t need to and we should respect that

So far, nothing here..

what else? Oh accusations that he takes drugs during bathroom breaks? Call that derangement from those making these accusations.. pathetic

What else? Nothing, u have nothing. Are you a better person that djokovic? He is imperfect, that’s his crime? I usually and more suspicious of anyone claiming to be perfect, watch out for those!

Djokovic is one of the most gracious players in defeat and should set the example of how to conduct yourself professionally, his work ethic, mental fortitude, dedication, ability to come back from being down… i would have kids emulate him, more that federer or nadal who set an almost false standard of being perfect humans, an impossibility.

Fact is you have absolutely nothing to stand on, same as the trolls who accuse rafa nadal of gamesmanship by going over time limits all the time, having being coached by toni nadal during matches at times (federer even made the accusation), being a primadonna like making people wait for him on court ( navratilova accuses him of this). Had djokovic done to sonego what nadal did peopke would be a scolding djokivic but nadal can do it. In the end, i defended nadal against this type of BS in past as it’s nothing, came from nadal haters.

you really have nothing but point to a few flaws here and there as if djokivic is a robot… it all comes from a position of jelously, hate or misunderstanding rather than an objective analysis of who he is.

in the end, it’s mostly about how we are witnessing him erasing fedal from record books… this is the fuel of the attacks, mostly because when look at djokovic, there is much more good than bad, he has been great for the sport, at the expense of fanboys who would’ve preferred fedal to get 30 slams each… would that have been better for tennis?

There we are having a civilised discussion about Novak, and you go all fanboy again, foaming at others and resisting the opportunity to discuss your idol in good faith…

 

[Sundaymorningguy]

Problem is you can’t back any of these claims..

he hit someone UNINTENTIONALLY at USO and then apologized, owned it.
He had been very open about his stance not to get vaccinated yet AO authorities gave him green light to come (victorian state and AO ), then government intervened and deported him. He handled it all well, making a statement about respecting courts and moving on. He has never advocated for others not to get vaccinated just that he believes he doesn’t need to and we should respect that

So far, nothing here..

what else? Oh accusations that he takes drugs during bathroom breaks? Call that derangement from those making these accusations.. pathetic

What else? Nothing, u have nothing. Are you a better person that djokovic? He is imperfect, that’s his crime? I usually and more suspicious of anyone claiming to be perfect, watch out for those!

Djokovic is one of the most gracious players in defeat and should set the example of how to conduct yourself professionally, his work ethic, mental fortitude, dedication, ability to come back from being down… i would have kids emulate him, more that federer or nadal who set an almost false standard of being perfect humans, an impossibility.

Fact is you have absolutely nothing to stand on, same as the trolls who accuse rafa nadal of gamesmanship by going over time limits all the time, having being coached by toni nadal during matches at times (federer even made the accusation), being a primadonna like making people wait for him on court ( navratilova accuses him of this). Had djokovic done to sonego what nadal did peopke would be a scolding djokivic but nadal can do it. In the end, i defended nadal against this type of BS in past as it’s nothing, came from nadal haters.

you really have nothing but point to a few flaws here and there as if djokivic is a robot… it all comes from a position of jelously, hate or misunderstanding rather than an objective analysis of who he is.

in the end, it’s mostly about how we are witnessing him erasing fedal from record books… this is the fuel of the attacks, mostly because when look at djokovic, there is much more good than bad, he has been great for the sport, at the expense of fanboys who would’ve preferred fedal to get 30 slams each… would that have been better for tennis?

No, it really stems from the fact that he makes mistakes which is understandable because we all do, but then his tone or his words don’t necessarily convey it as a mistake more like an inconvenience that he had to deal with and we shouldn’t care. When you are at the top of the game, people have higher standards all around for champions. I’m sorry, but I expect champions to be the gold standard not only in their tennis, but they should have a great demeanor on court as well.

 

[TheSicilian]

 

[Sundaymorningguy]

I mean but people have a go at Djokovic because they want to see the best from him. They want to see his behavior on and off court match the quality of his tennis.

 

[Moxie]

he hit someone UNINTENTIONALLY at USO and then apologized, owned it.

I get really tired of hearing how "unintentionally" he hit that lineswoman. Of COURSE it was unintentional. He had nothing against her. What he did was hit a ball in frustration, and it happened to nail the woman in the throat.

Did he own it? Not long after the incident he said this:



He starts right in addressing it. But go to 13:00 where he says he cannot promise it wouldn't happen again. And if you care to, watch the whole thing. He's says more that once it could have happened to a lot of players. That is not exactly "owning" it.

This was his response to questions when he nearly hit a linesman at the FO 2016:

And this is how he responded later that year, when he launched a ball into the stands at the YEC:



You can see why people have issues with him, and we're not just talking about fan bases or fanboys.