World Cup 2018

brokenshoelace

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Clever of me to have watched to best ones, then. You've said you're Juve and Italy. (Not options here. BTW, I lived in Torino, where rooting for Juventus is required.) So who are you rooting for this time around?

The guy I've spent like 5 pages arguing about in this thread, but I know Argentina had no shot in hell even before the World Cup started. Truth be told, other than Messi, I'd like to see Brazil win it again. It's been a while by their standards, and they have IMO the best team in the tournament. They just need to relax because it's so obvious they're playing with pressure and the demons of 2014. Too bad Neymar is still clearly not 100% fit.
 
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brokenshoelace

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Yes I mean Messi. I'm fed up of hearing arguments for Pele and Maradona only because they won the WC and Messi hasn't specially Pele cause both Maradona and Messi are better footballers than him.

Holy shit. I agree with this guy.
 
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monfed

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I still haven't given up on Argentina. I still think Leo has one magical performance left in him in WC to rescue Argentina. If there's anyone who can do it, it's him. It's now or never, Leo!
 

brokenshoelace

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Rumor has it Sergio Aguero is being dropped because Sampaoli wants to punish him for his "he can say whatever he wants" comment after the loss to Croatia. For the record, Aguero is Messi's best friend so that should put a stop to the whole "Messi picks the lineup" thing, although I'm sure he does have strong influence in general.
 

Moxie

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Let's see if it happens. What's up with the internal fighting from Argentina? They do it in DC, as well.
 

Moxie

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Who's the best keeper in the competition? My friend is a huge fan of Manuel Neuer, but he blew the first one v Sweden yesterday.
 

Federberg

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Who's the best keeper in the competition? My friend is a huge fan of Manuel Neuer, but he blew the first one v Sweden yesterday.
I would still probably go with Neuer. The alternatives would probably Lloris for France (and Spurs, my team) and De Gea for Spain (and Man Utd). De Gea already had a shocking error against Portugal. It happens
 
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monfed

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Couldn't Argentina do the bare minimum of finding a decent coach? Sheesh such a massive shame it will be if Messi doesn't win the WC because of the coach. :cry:

All this is because of that jerk Mario Gotze. God I hate the German football team so much I can't even tell you. Nobody remembers him.

If Messi had won it he would've gone down as the undisputed greatest and we would've all witnessed it. It's a crying shame and the greatest tragedy in football.
 

Federberg

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Couldn't Argentina do the bare minimum of finding a decent coach? Sheesh such a massive shame it will be if Messi doesn't win the WC because of the coach. :cry:

All this is because of that jerk Mario Gotze. God I hate the German football team so much I can't even tell you. Nobody remembers him.

If Messi had won it he would've gone down as the undisputed greatest and we would've all witnessed it. It's a crying shame and the greatest tragedy in football.
so Gotze is a jerk for scoring a great goal in the final? Mate what is it with you? Do you have to frame the opposing team/ player in such terms all the time? You do it with Rafa and it just sounds juvenile. Truly bizarre..

Messi could do with have the balls Gotze did to execute under pressure. Then maybe your coronation of him would have even a little merit
 

monfed

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so Gotze is a jerk for scoring a great goal in the final? Mate what is it with you? Do you have to frame the opposing team/ player in such terms all the time? You do it with Rafa and it just sounds juvenile. Truly bizarre..

Messi could do with have the balls Gotze did to execute under pressure. Then maybe your coronation of him would have even a little merit

Messi had almost singlehandedly taken Argentina to the WC final and he deservedly should've won it. What did that Gotze do? Nothing till the dying embers of that final. Argentina were the better team in the final and deservedly should've won specially for Messi, the world of football would've become truly golden. Now we have some unknown guy who nobody cares or remembers. Nobody cares about Germany winning another WC. It disgusts me when some nobody like Gotze gets in the way of what could've been the greatest day in football, kindof like delmugtro getting in the way of Fed at USO 09 when he had a great chance of becoming undisputed GOAT at USO.

How would you have felt if delpotro or haas had taken out Fed at RG 09 after Nadull went out? Utterly disgusted I hope. That's what happened to Messi in WC 2014.
 

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Messi had almost singlehandedly taken Argentina to the WC final and he deservedly should've won it. What did that Gotze do? Nothing till the dying embers of that final. Argentina were the better team in the final and deservedly should've won specially for Messi, the world of football would've become truly golden. Now we have some unknown guy who nobody cares or remembers. Nobody cares about Germany winning another WC. It disgusts me when some nobody like Gotze gets in the way of what could've been the greatest day in football, kindof like delmugtro getting in the way of Fed at USO 09 when he had a great chance of becoming undisputed GOAT at USO.

How would you have felt if delpotro or haas had taken out Fed at RG 09 after Nadull went out? Utterly disgusted I hope. That's what happened to Messi in WC 2014.
mate people aren't supposed to bend over so "great" players can win. Federer had to fight to beat Delpo and Haas. He hit in my view one of his most clutch inside out forehands in the match against Delpo. If he had not done it, he wouldn't have done it. Simple. But he did. Because he is awesome.

Just look at the difference between Messi and Cristiano in this world cup so far. Cristiano in the dying minutes takes a free kick and equalises against Spain. Basically if he'd failed they would have lost. Then look at Lionel. He had a penalty. A penalty! Considerably lesser degree of difficulty. His team were drawing Iceland at the time I believe. This would have been for the win. What did he do? He choked. Completely choked. This is the guy you trying to tell me just needs a WC title to be considered GOAT? Do me a favour! Cristiano has shown more greatness and clutchness here alone than Messi and I would never consider him GOAT
 

monfed

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mate people aren't supposed to bend over so "great" players can win. Federer had to fight to beat Delpo and Haas. He hit in my view one of his most clutch inside out forehands in the match against Delpo. If he had not done it, he wouldn't have done it. Simple. But he did. Because he is awesome.

Just look at the difference between Messi and Cristiano in this world cup so far. Cristiano in the dying minutes takes a free kick and equalises against Spain. Basically if he'd failed they would have lost. Then look at Lionel. He had a penalty. A penalty! Considerably lesser degree of difficulty. His team were drawing Iceland at the time I believe. This would have been for the win. What did he do? He choked. Completely choked. This is the guy you trying to tell me just needs a WC title to be considered GOAT? Do me a favour! Cristiano has shown more greatness and clutchness here alone than Messi and I would never consider him GOAT

Oh look what do we have here. A Ronaldo tard. Messi has more talent in his little pinky than Ronaldo has in his entire body.

Messi >>>> Ronaldo. Bye
 

brokenshoelace

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mate people aren't supposed to bend over so "great" players can win. Federer had to fight to beat Delpo and Haas. He hit in my view one of his most clutch inside out forehands in the match against Delpo. If he had not done it, he wouldn't have done it. Simple. But he did. Because he is awesome.

Just look at the difference between Messi and Cristiano in this world cup so far. Cristiano in the dying minutes takes a free kick and equalises against Spain. Basically if he'd failed they would have lost. Then look at Lionel. He had a penalty. A penalty! Considerably lesser degree of difficulty. His team were drawing Iceland at the time I believe. This would have been for the win. What did he do? He choked. Completely choked. This is the guy you trying to tell me just needs a WC title to be considered GOAT? Do me a favour! Cristiano has shown more greatness and clutchness here alone than Messi and I would never consider him GOAT

This legitimately sounds like a dumber version of Skip Bayless talk. A guy who literally barely pays attention on a week to week basis judging based on the last thing he saw.

Remember Cristiano's team crashing out of the first round in the last World Cup when he couldn't manage to beat the USA and lost to Ghana? Remember Cristiano being too scared to take a penalty against Spain in the 2012 European Championship semi final so his team lost on penalties? Remember Cristiano missing a penalty against Bayern preventing Madrid for making it to the CL finals?

Remember Zidane's France crashing out of the 2002 World Cup group stages as the defending champs without managing a single goal?

Remember Platini missing a crucial penalty? Zico? Remember Maradona missing a penalty against Italy in the 1990 World Cup? All these guys had no balls I'm sure. It can't be that they just took a penalty and the goalkeeper saved it. Nope, it has to be some general unproven bullshit such as lacking balls and not being clutch.

And LOL @ Messi lacking Gotze's balls to execute. The same guy who dragged his team to 3 consecutive international finals being compared to a bench player who hadn't done anything of real note (other than flashes of talent in Dortmund) that goal or since.

The best thing my chess coach ever told me is, the less you know, the more dogmatic you are. He followed it with a joke about Donald Trump, but I wouldn't insult you like that.

Your post above is literally implying you're only judging the two based on this World Cup, which is such baffling logic I'm astounded.
 

Federberg

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Mate you make me laugh :) You really do. I like dialectic with you primarily because you're as arrogant as I am, it feels.... honest. I'll ignore your assumption that your knowledge about football surpasses mine, it/s irrelevant. In some ways specifics aren't really relevant. Not when case against Messi's GOATness is so obvious. You can make all the excuses you want, the temperature wasn't right, he wasn't well. I.... don't... give a damn. The guy has not executed at the highest level. It really comes down to that. I think you're a little bit smarter than to suggest I'm judging Messi on the basis of this World Cup alone. I'm not and you know I'm not. Play your silly games if you want, that's ok. But the simple fact is that Messi has failed to execute so far in this World Cup. I'm not sure what his team mates have to do with his inability to put a penalty in against Iceland. Iceland for goodness sakes. He choked. Ronaldo was up against Spain. Dying moments of the match. And he brought it. It's funny because you're trying to give a pass to Messi for something you would probably hold against Federer. There was no clutchness there mate. That is a critical component of greatness. It's not a judgement. That's just what we all saw
 
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brokenshoelace

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Never said I know or understand football more than you, I said I've watched the players/teams that we're actually more discussing more than you, and I've come to this very easy conclusion not by your arguments, which you're entitled to, but the factual inaccuracies.

Also, if you really think the World Cup is the highest level of football, you REALLY, REALLY need to pay more attention to the Champions League. The most prestigious tournament =/= the highest level. Unless you actually think a bunch of players playing together once every three months with mediocre coaches is a higher level than a team of elite players with elite coaches training every day together and playing twice a week. That's laughable.

Also, you continue to ignore my arguments and make up shit that I never said. Of course Messi hasn't executed this World Cup and I didn't blame the penalty on his teammates (that would be idiotic). I said missing a penalty is not always about choking and sometimes you just...miss. If that's too complicated I don't know what to tell you. I gave you example of so many players that you champion missing penalties in the past, in even more crucial games... Ok so let's say they choked...Every player chokes at one point. You're implying Cristiano is more clutch literally based on two matches that each of them played (unless you mean Cristiano was more clutch in that Euro 2016 final he played 9 minutes in), which is absolutely ridiculous. The problem is not with you making a case against Messi being GOAT, it's how inane some of the arguments are. If you want to bring up their careers to determine who's more clutch, I refer you to my post above in which I cite examples of Cristiano failing to deliver, and I can give you literally a dozen more, and I'm sure there are examples of Messi failing too. Like literally every other player in history.
 

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^Lol! You're going to sit there and suggest that the Champions League is the most prestigious tournament in the world? Errr... ok. Nuff said. It certainly has the most concentrated level of talent, no argument there. But in terms of pressure? No way no how. The fact that the players in national teams have so little time together makes the World Cup more difficult. The fact that most players want to win the World Cup more than they want to win a Champions League medal increases the level of pressure they face dramatically. The very greatest players embrace that pressure and do great things.

You argue sometimes players just miss penalties. I absolutely agree. Of course it's not the first time Messi has missed crucial penalties. I recall the season Chelsea won the Champions League that Messi laid a turd as well. So it's not like this is the first time this has happened. There's something there whether you want to see it or not. Who's talking about the Euros. Right here we saw Cristiano execute under the most extreme pressure against his greatest national rival. That's cohones right there mate. That's greatness. That's not an indictment of Messi's career to be fair. But if you want to make a case for Messi's GOAThood, right here in this tournament is a player who pushes him close. Who has just showed what stuff he's made of for his country. Messi...didn't. You can call that an inane argument if you want. Whatever insult you want to make isn't going to change reality. Sorry
 
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Federberg

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So what has Ronaldo done that is better than Messi? Leadership qualities? Ok but is that your metric for GOATness?
He's won a title for his country.

Look.. I don't think Cristiano is better than Messi. At best he's matched him. At best. I think he's a better fit in most teams. You pretty much have to build a team around Messi. I think at their respective peaks you could have played Cristiano in any number of ways but it was always far more limited for Messi. Does that make him a better player? No. But you would certainly have to think about it if you were building a team from scratch. I can think of few players with the sort of close control Messi has. He's absolutely phenomenal and a joy to watch. You probably think I don't like him. I do. I just think the idea of him being the GOAT is absurd
 

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Lol! Cristiano blows a penalty there. Not a good one. Team is up one nil though. This is the cruelty of history. If Argentina fail to go through people will remember Messi's miss. They won't remember Cristiano's