Syria heats up some more. Russia ups the ante.

Kieran

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That's a roll-call of great success and achievement! Well done, them fellers.

Now Hunting, it seems that any view that contradicts yours will be greeted with the hoot of contempt, accusations of ignorance and allegations of brainwashing - and you're the blimmin' alligator! Regardless, that you seem to be conditioned yourself. Forget that. Here's a way you can help us.

List 3 history books which you'd recommend from your years of study on the topic. And I promise I'll look them up. No Dan Brown, please. Seriously. No.

And while you're doing that, here's Howard Jacobson again, to help you understand a few things:

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-of-israel-for-what-it-really-is-1624827.html
 

shawnbm

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I know full well millions of Poles, Russians, Germans, Austrians, French, British and Asians were killed in WWII. I never said anything exclusive about the Jews. But, along with Communists, they were clearly systematically targeted, imprisoned and executed leading up to and during the Second World War. This is a fact. Not just Americans, but all civilized people should be taught of the horrors imposed by Hitler, his gestapo and the SS in those years. I happen to know quite a bit about the first great genocide of the 20th century in the Ottoman Empire's last days. I know of the millions who were forced out of their land, the men executed, the women and children raped and butchered as they were forced to march to various towns to either marry a Moslem (if attractive enough) and convert to Islam or, if not pretty enough, being killed or forced on to starve and not get fed water for days. It was a true travesty that is not as well known, but should be. It certainly is on the level with what happened to the Jews. How about Cambodia? Actually that tragedy is fairly well known and taught in the USA--it only happened forty years ago. Rwanda? Yes, that is fairly well known, but the Holocaust was a big part of the largest and most death producing war in the history of humanity, so it is not unreasonable to see that a lot more is written and talked about in that regard than the equally sickening mayhem that others have suffered in certain parts of the world. in short, I don't get why you write a lot of what you wrote, hunting. But, I look forward to your list of history books.
 

huntingyou

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shawnbm said:
I know full well millions of Poles, Russians, Germans, Austrians, French, British and Asians were killed in WWII. I never said anything exclusive about the Jews. But, along with Communists, they were clearly systematically targeted, imprisoned and executed leading up to and during the Second World War. This is a fact. Not just Americans, but all civilized people should be taught of the horrors imposed by Hitler, his gestapo and the SS in those years. I happen to know quite a bit about the first great genocide of the 20th century in the Ottoman Empire's last days. I know of the millions who were forced out of their land, the men executed, the women and children raped and butchered as they were forced to march to various towns to either marry a Moslem (if attractive enough) and convert to Islam or, if not pretty enough, being killed or forced on to starve and not get fed water for days. It was a true travesty that is not as well known, but should be. It certainly is on the level with what happened to the Jews. How about Cambodia? Actually that tragedy is fairly well known and taught in the USA--it only happened forty years ago. Rwanda? Yes, that is fairly well known, but the Holocaust was a big part of the largest and most death producing war in the history of humanity, so it is not unreasonable to see that a lot more is written and talked about in that regard than the equally sickening mayhem that others have suffered in certain parts of the world. in short, I don't get why you write a lot of what you wrote, hunting. But, I look forward to your list of history books.

The holocaust it’s over exaggerated, over play and often used blindly as a blanket justification for political positions that are contrary to what you expect from a group of people that suffered such fate. I totally disagree with you about Cambodia, and the much other genocide as far as being spoken about in America, let alone on equal terms as the jews. You can’t throw a stone in any major city without hitting a holocaust and jew museum. To deny this is playing with reality. To deny the gross influence israel enjoy over our government, media and financial institutions it’s even more dangerous. Since you mentioned the holocaust first, tell me then who do you think FUNDED Hitler’s military war machine? See, the devil it’s in the details.

Also, why did you ignored the list of people I gave you working for the Obama administration or has worked? Do you really think this is the result of hardwork? A minority that compromise less than 2% of the population can take CONTROL of critical financial and policy making positions from administration to administration without you caring one bit? You have Greenspan, we know the evil he did…..then we get Bernanke, we know how good he is doing for his masters…..now there is talk about Summers taking over the Fed; really? Do I need to hit you with a hammer? What about Jack Lewd? Do you know the criminal military war against Iraq was mastermind by Paul wolfowitz?

I will give you no books, do your own homework…….you can start with those names and the impact their economic policies and international policies are doing to this world. Do you think constant warfare, genocide, hunger, poverty, financial ruin, destruction of the environment, it’s de-fact human condition? Just like us, who love tennis and join a board to talk about tennis; there are powerful people who have similar goals and look for each other……don’t you think this people get together and take action? What world are you living in?


Kieran said:
That's a roll-call of great success and achievement! Well done, them fellers.

Now Hunting, it seems that any view that contradicts yours will be greeted with the hoot of contempt, accusations of ignorance and allegations of brainwashing - and you're the blimmin' alligator! Regardless, that you seem to be conditioned yourself. Forget that. Here's a way you can help us.

List 3 history books which you'd recommend from your years of study on the topic. And I promise I'll look them up. No Dan Brown, please. Seriously. No.

And while you're doing that, here's Howard Jacobson again, to help you understand a few things:

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-of-israel-for-what-it-really-is-1624827.html

You basically called me anti-semite when I used the world zionists but now you accuse me of greeting you with contempt?

Anyways, your reaction was typical knee-jerk reaction; you did what you were program to do...good job.

See, this Howard J business it's a smoke screen, address the issues at hand or step out.

There is no book for you, maybe Dan Brown suits you well because science fiction it's the place you find yourself more comfortable at.

- Israel violation to non nuclear proliferation treaty
- Israel crimes against humanity...many times over
- US 9 billion dollars direct assistance to the state of Israel
- US political cover at the Security Council of the UN (no sanctions for standing violations)
- Sickening american political allegiance to israel from our own politicians (read Britbox links?)
- Overwhelming influence in key financial and policy making position of all administrations (explain Greenspan, Bernanke, Summers, Geithner, Volcker)
- Aggressive espionage against US national secrets

I can go on and on....but let's stick to the simple issues firsts. Address those above!
 

Johnsteinbeck

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huntingyou said:
Where is the Cambodian Museum or Armenian
(1) 2831 W Lawrence Ave, Chicago, IL (and another place in Seattle, WA; also might want to check out the Smithsonian Asian Pacific American Center) (2)1334 G Street, NW, Washington, DC.

of course i'd very much appreciate if other cruelties in world history, no matter what the link to the US may or may not be, would receive the place in public discussion they deserve. because i am certain that public education on these most horrendous crimes against humanity has nothing to do with "brainwashing".



also, i'm not sure if i even want to ask who you think or claim funded Hitler's side in WWII. and please refrain from using the term "exaggerated" when referring to the holocaust, because i hardly see myself capable of continuing any discussion with you in that case.

Kieran was interested and asked you for further literature. i bet there's tons out supporting your point of view, by the way (maybe not everything legally available, most likely not in my homecountry), i don't think your bullet point list works the same.
 

Kieran

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huntingyou said:
You basically called me anti-semite

Well, if the cap fits. Your own words hang you, I'm afraid. The Howard Jacobson articles are to help you, but if you're buried so deep in the (unknown and un-cited) histories you're studying, what can be done? You post nonsense and accuse us of being programmed, which, if you were to think about it slowly, you'd see that this is as evasive as your not citing the history books you read.

You did this before, so I'm not surprised. Remember you got in a tizzy on the previous forum, ranting - but evading questions?

I know you think there's a Blofeld-esque Jewish cabal which controls the universe, and secretly too (except they don't conceal their Jewishness: they may need to work on that one), but the frightened way you post these malicious stereotypes only reveals your own bizarre and outdated prejudice.

So give us a little hand here: name 3 of the history books that would help us understand where you're coming from (as if we weren't already aware)...
 

huntingyou

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johnsteinbeck said:
huntingyou said:
Where is the Cambodian Museum or Armenian
(1) 2831 W Lawrence Ave, Chicago, IL (and another place in Seattle, WA; also might want to check out the Smithsonian Asian Pacific American Center) (2)1334 G Street, NW, Washington, DC.

of course i'd very much appreciate if other cruelties in world history, no matter what the link to the US may or may not be, would receive the place in public discussion they deserve. because i am certain that public education on these most horrendous crimes against humanity has nothing to do with "brainwashing".



also, i'm not sure if i even want to ask who you think or claim funded Hitler's side in WWII. and please refrain from using the term "exaggerated" when referring to the holocaust, because i hardly see myself capable of continuing any discussion with you in that case.

Kieran was interested and asked you for further literature. i bet there's tons out supporting your point of view, by the way (maybe not everything legally available, most likely not in my homecountry), i don't think your bullet point list works the same.

Don't ask then! Easy

The holocaust's place in history and constant pandering to it, even when the topic has nothing to do with it's exaggerated. There is no discussion between you and me so please continue as you wish.

Kieran evades all the hard points and instead turn the spotlight away from his ignorance into a need for sources......if he can't even find a creditable source that recollects the palestinian-israel conflict or the events that took place up to and 1948 then why I will bother?


Kieran said:
huntingyou said:
You basically called me anti-semite

Well, if the cap fits. Your own words hang you, I'm afraid. The Howard Jacobson articles are to help you, but if you're buried so deep in the (unknown and un-cited) histories you're studying, what can be done? You post nonsense and accuse us of being programmed, which, if you were to think about it slowly, you'd see that this is as evasive as your not citing the history books you read.

You did this before, so I'm not surprised. Remember you got in a tizzy on the previous forum, ranting - but evading questions?

I know you think there's a Blofeld-esque Jewish cabal which controls the universe, and secretly too (except they don't conceal their Jewishness: they may need to work on that one), but the frightened way you post these malicious stereotypes only reveals your own bizarre and outdated prejudice.

So give us a little hand here: name 3 of the history books that would help us understand where you're coming from (as if we weren't already aware)...

Listen, I'm tired of your bullshit, first the anti-semite and now you claim that I said there is a exclusive jewish cabal which controls the universe.....any diversion that takes away from the hard facts.

Your play with words likes malicious stereotypes it's actually stereotypical in your part. As the world goes down in flames and the people little by little lose a piece of the pie they have left...you work your massaging of reality.

yeah I remember the other thread, but you are catholic which mean there is really nothing else to discuss on that matter
 

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Come on, guys, don't personalize it. As a wise man once wrote, debate the post, not the poster.
 

Kieran

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Huntingyou,

I know you're on a sticky wicket on this one. Let me quote you:

huntingyou said:
I actually had to do a thesis on this topic for my international affairs studies Masters, some of the reading I used was actually provided by the prof. himself.


Okay. Tell us 3 of the books that formed your reading. That's all I asked.

I asked it previously in another thread and you balked.

You've gone a little sensationalist and hysterical on this thread, calling people names, displaying "ecumenical blindspots" (to be diplomatic) and generally being evasive. Abusive too. That only exposes you and your agenda. Expose yourself positively, for once: cite your historical sources please...


Just to try steer the topic back on course again, the Telegraph defence editor reckons Assad is on the brink of victory in Syria...
 

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Kieran said:
Huntingyou,

I know you're on a sticky wicket on this one. Let me quote you:

huntingyou said:
I actually had to do a thesis on this topic for my international affairs studies Masters, some of the reading I used was actually provided by the prof. himself.


Okay. Tell us 3 of the books that formed your reading. That's all I asked.

I asked it previously in another thread and you balked.

You've gone a little sensationalist and hysterical on this thread, calling people names, displaying "ecumenical blindspots" (to be diplomatic) and generally being evasive. Abusive too. That only exposes you and your agenda. Expose yourself positively, for once: cite your historical sources please...


Just to try steer the topic back on course again, the Telegraph defence editor reckons Assad is on the brink of victory in Syria...



insisting won't get you any book.

addressing the bullet points might change my attitude though. I mean, unless talking about israel standing violation of NPT it's fictional? Giving you a chance; take it.
 

shawnbm

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Has something changed with Israel that I'm unaware of? I ask because I could swear Israel refused to sign that treaty and is not the only nuclear nation to refuse to do so. I believe India and Pakistan likewise have said no to the treaty. Hence, how can either, technically, be in violation of the treaty?
 

Kieran

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huntingyou said:
insisting won't get you any book.

addressing the bullet points might change my attitude though. I mean, unless talking about israel standing violation of NPT it's fictional? Giving you a chance; take it.

I'd prefer to see a list of the reading you bragged about earlier. I know you won't, because it comes from the fringe, and that's your prerogative. Maybe these books have been discredited and that's why you don't want to expose yourself any further. I wouldn't blame you, to be honest. I think your posts speak enough for all the learning you've had...
 

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huntingyou said:
johnsteinbeck said:
also, i'm not sure if i even want to ask who you think or claim funded Hitler's side in WWII.

Don't ask then! Easy
alright, i can't resist - who funded it, aside from the obvious (war bonds, cartels, price fixing and state monopolies, extremely raising corporate profit taxes, forced war bonds, forced labour, plundering the Austrian purse, pressing fresh Reichsmark on credit, counterfeiting foreign currencies and vouchers, 'creative' bookkeeping (the Reichsbank lending the Reich money), oh, and of course, debt to German industrial moguls and others, looting the occupied countries, and finally the systematic robbing and extortion of the jewish population... )?
 

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shawnbm said:
Has something changed with Israel that I'm unaware of? I ask because I could swear Israel refused to sign that treaty and is not the only nuclear nation to refuse to do so. I believe India and Pakistan likewise have said no to the treaty. Hence, how can either, technically, be in violation of the treaty?

you guys are silly. "I could swear blah blah blah" Be serious

India-Pakistan have not signed the treaty of course, both nations have DECLARED their nuclear arsenal to the international community and even have move forward with other pacts outside of the treaty itself to further satisfy the international community of the non-proliferation spirit that's paramount with NPT. India it's on better terms of course than Pakistant but both countries are what we could call a "cold war" and at this point signing the treaty it's mute since both states have fully declared.

That's not the case with Israel.

Try a little bit harder next time.

NEXT


Kieran said:
huntingyou said:
insisting won't get you any book.

addressing the bullet points might change my attitude though. I mean, unless talking about israel standing violation of NPT it's fictional? Giving you a chance; take it.

I'd prefer to see a list of the reading you bragged about earlier. I know you won't, because it comes from the fringe, and that's your prerogative. Maybe these books have been discredited and that's why you don't want to expose yourself any further. I wouldn't blame you, to be honest. I think your posts speak enough for all the learning you've had...

What's fringe, your believe system of preconceive notion because you were told so or the ability to try a little bit harder and do my OWN research instead of swallowing what's being spoon fed to me?

At some point in time, it was consider fringe the statement that United States conducted false flag operations before the conflict with Vietnam for example in order to mobilize public support for an illegitimate war....well Gulf of Tonkin happened and it wasn't fringe after all when future administration ADMITTED the "MISTAKE"

Do you still believe in the US official story about WMD in Iraq? What's fringe?

For the record, the paper was done on Palestinian-Israel conflict, it was an eye opening experience because up to that point I kind of thought both parties were at fault equally.......boy was I wrong.

Anyways, I'm ready when you are ready.....still waiting
 

Kieran

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So Israel violated a treaty they didn't sign. That's like not keeping a promise you didn't make, is it?

Are you for real?


huntingyou said:
the ability to try a little bit harder and do my OWN research instead of swallowing what's being spoon fed to me?

Great! Care to share that research with the gang?

huntingyou said:
Anyways, I'm ready when you are ready.....still waiting

So are we, unfortunately. But we're not holding our breath...
 

huntingyou

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johnsteinbeck said:
huntingyou said:
johnsteinbeck said:
also, i'm not sure if i even want to ask who you think or claim funded Hitler's side in WWII.

Don't ask then! Easy
alright, i can't resist - who funded it, aside from the obvious (war bonds, cartels, price fixing and state monopolies, extremely raising corporate profit taxes, forced war bonds, forced labour, plundering the Austrian purse, pressing fresh Reichsmark on credit, counterfeiting foreign currencies and vouchers, 'creative' bookkeeping (the Reichsbank lending the Reich money), oh, and of course, debt to German industrial moguls and others, looting the occupied countries, and finally the systematic robbing and extortion of the jewish population... )?


Ok, where the bankers in NYC and London were putting their money? I see you dabble in many words that really say little. Where WAS the big money going or you think these good people of great moral compass sat outside in the fences?

Remember, everybody "fear" Communism...the big boggy man, powerful money people including well known jewish bankers (say their name, I know you can) in London and NY made their bed with Hitler.....the lesser devil they said. Well, I believe this wasn't miscalculation but actually the AIM but that's debatable of course and my opinion.....regardless, WWII led to the events of 1948...it would have been IMPOSSIBLE any other way and even still, US President had to made a 6 minutes decision....a blind mistake he did.


Kieran said:
So Israel violated a treaty they didn't sign. That's like not keeping a promise you didn't make, is it?

Are you for real?


huntingyou said:
the ability to try a little bit harder and do my OWN research instead of swallowing what's being spoon fed to me?

Great! Care to share that research with the gang?

huntingyou said:
Anyways, I'm ready when you are ready.....still waiting

So are we, unfortunately. But we're not holding our breath...




read the treaty men

Is not optional, especially since it's against international law to posses a nuclear weapons outside of big 5. If there is no problem with Israel nuclear stand; then why deny it?

It's obvious you have no interest in addressing the real issue so you just might as well take a hike.
 

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Kieran said:
huntingyou said:
Well, I believe this wasn't miscalculation but actually the AIM but that's debatable of course and my opinion.....regardless, WWII led to the events of 1948...it would have been IMPOSSIBLE any other way

Conspiracy theory mouth-foam.

Actually sickening, but you probably wrote that with your trousers down around your ankles...

ADDRESS THE POINT and REFRAIN FROM INSULTS.

JEWISH BANKERS AND AMERICAN BANKERS PARTICIPATE IN THE FUNDING OF HITLER RISE TO POWER...DEBATE THAT.

was it fear of communism? That's what main stream media says when real journalist backtrack "delete" records of such transactions.


The NPT called on all parties to fight proliferation while allowing for peaceful atomic development under international monitoring.

Article I stated that nuclear powers agree not to assist non-nuclear countries in their nuclear programs, while Article IV affirmed the right of all NPT members to develop nuclear energy and Article VI obliged nuclear states to begin dismantling nukes in “good faith”.

At present nine countries have nuclear arsenals with the strong likelihood others will follow, as an increasing number of states have adequate research, facilities, materials, and reactors for processing uranium at high levels.

Several countries, aside from Iran, now have the technology and resources to achieve nuclear-weapons status within the next decades, including Japan, Brazil, Australia, Argentina, Turkey, and South Africa.

All of these states, as NPT members, are fully entitled to nuclear sources of energy – though so far only Iran has been singled out for international scrutiny and targeted with economic sanctions and military threats.

As for Article I, the U.S. (along with France) offered substantial aid and protection to the hyper-secret Israeli nuclear-weapons program going back to the 1950s.

Israel has never wanted anything to do with the NPT, fearful of any meddling into its accumulation of between 200 and 400 warheads, thinly concealed behind a façade of “ambiguity”.

Aside from nukes, Tel Aviv reportedly owns an abundant stockpile of chemical and biological weapons while again refusing to join the relevant global conventions.

Make no mistake: despite the media fiction of a small, weak, relatively defenseless country isolated and surrounded by aggressive foes, Israel currently rivals Britain, France, and China as a world nuclear power, central to its shared goal (with the U.S.) of military supremacy in the Middle East.

Credible sources indicate that Israel possesses not only neutron bombs but an array of tactical nukes, ballistic missiles, atomic land mines, cruise missiles, nuclear-armed subs, and high-explosive artillery shells.

The subs alone are armed with four cruise missiles each, replete with multiple warheads. The general Israeli military arsenal dwarfs the actual or potential armed forces of all other Middle Eastern nations combined.

Several U.N. resolutions calling for Israel to join the NPT, open up its nuclear facilities to inspection, and agree to a regional nuclear-free zone have been stonewalled by the U.S. and Israel.

After the CIA reported that Israel had the Bomb in 1968 (fully 18 years before Mordecai Vanunu’s insider revelations), no outside visits to Israeli military sites have been allowed.

Meanwhile, India – still a non-NPT state – has long benefitted from a massive transfer of atomic resources and technology from the U.S., dating to years before the Indian weapons breakthrough of 1974.

As an imagined counterweight to Chinese military power, India was empowered to build as many as 65 warheads, manufactured and deployed in the absence of external monitoring and made possible by the work of 1100 U.S.-trained scientists.

Like Israel and also Pakistan, India maintains a hostile attitude toward IAEA monitoring. In July 2005 the U.S. signed an historic deal with New Delhi for nuclear cooperation, just when India was busy modernizing its illegal atomic stockpile and delivery systems. (The deal was approved by Congress in October 2008.)

Those profiting, of course, included dozens of U.S. technical and military corporations.

Non-NPT states naturally fight international pressure to limit their weapons systems, so that reducing nuclear arsenals in the midst of such outlawry, consistent with Article VI, is unthinkable.