Syria heats up some more. Russia ups the ante.

[britbox]

^ Let's trust it doesn't go that far, but it's a very dangerous situation. Putin isn't going to get pushed around by the West though, that's for sure.

I'm still trying to figure out the real geopolitical reasons why the west would back this ragtag "FSA" army, made up primarily of jihadists. Oil pipelines? Isolating Iran? Wiping out Hezbollah?

Sometimes, better the devil you know (Assad)...

 

[shawnbm]

USA was not trying to do anything but keep things cool with Assad and Syria, gently reminding them that support of Hezbollah would always undermine Syria getting more than the minimum from the USA. Now, with this Administration, we see not too well thought out strategy for dealing with the civil unrest there. Putin's saber rattling will only increase and he will be compelled to do something to shore up the regime in Damascus. This is a cauldron with no real solution in sight. Sometimes the USA should just let the other folks go--our moral authority (that which USA thinks it has) is of no moment in the cradle of civilization--not to Assad and certainly not to the jihadists who are going to grab ahold of these weapons.

 

[shawnbm]

Vladimir certainly rattled his sabre today at the G-8 summit. Obama is having little influence, it would seem, and Cameron is making no more progress either.

 

[britbox]

Cameron won't make any progress. Britain can do very little in the situation without the will of the USA. I don't actually think Obama wants a piece of Syria personally - but he's under pressure from various factions to commit.

I always think you need a counterbalance and Putin is impressive in providing that.

 

[Kieran]

Cameron looks more out of his depth recently, to be honest, and I sort of like the guy. But he's mooching about waving his hands in front like the chairman of a small company explaining basics to a prospective buyer. The pertinent question - where are the interests of Britain threatened so they have to intervene - is being ignored. More and more, they look like a desperately unloved wife of America.

Putin is bullish on this one, but that's understandable, even if it's only for the same reasons the west gets bullish over things.

Israel is being ignored, although the threat has just risen a notch. Already Syria hates them: imagine the rebels get in. Imagine a full-on Islamist Syrian state. Putin has a proper fear of Islamists and I think that's another reason why he's so furious on this one. The G8 is openly hostile to a solution, which is telling. They're visibly opposing each other and I can't see where the twain can meet on this one...

 

[Asmodeus]

Nice! It's seems as if the West's reluctance to do anything in Syria will evidentially result in an Islamist mini-State. This is just what the world and the region needed. I look forward to a promising future in the Mid East. :laydownlaughing

 

[britbox]

You're wrong on that count Asmo. The West were supporting the Jihadists. They are fighting a secular state government. Anyway, the jihadists and the Free Syrian Army are fighting each other now while the Russians and Iranians are ploughing more arms and money into the government forces. The balance is now firmly tipped in favour of the incumbent regime.

 

[shawnbm]

You're wrong on that count Asmo. The West were supporting the Jihadists. They are fighting a secular state government. Anyway, the jihadists and the Free Syrian Army are fighting each other now while the Russians and Iranians are ploughing more arms and money into the government forces. The balance is now firmly tipped in favour of the incumbent regime.

I will be Ed and you are Johnny: "You are correct, sir!"

All kidding aside, what Obama is doing in Syria is just befuddling. There is now talk of intervention militarily via kinetic strikes, drones and even amassing 20K Army soldiers in Jordan in case of the need to strike quickly. It is totally out of hand. But, Putin and the regime are definitely sitting in a strong position.

 

[britbox]

Obama has no gameplan on Syria, and neither do the Brits or the French. Regime change was obviously initial objective, but there are too many players in the theatre now and it might be a case of the "devil i know, rather than than the devil i don't" ... in short, I think the west is getting cold feet.. and it's not too surprising considering the ragbag of factions they were backing - who incidentally are now killing each other.

Putin has played a blinder with Syria and outmaneuvered the entire west. Not for the first time and it won't be the last. This Snowden scenario is another example where he's stuck too fingers up and played the west like a fiddle. Can't blame the guy - he's looking after Russian interests.... and doing it well.

 

[Kieran]

Putin rules Russia like a rogue state though, doesn't he? Rivals imprisoned after dodgy trials, one guy even - medievally - tried years after he died. He's really going hell for leather in his "third term." Wouldn't be a guy you could reason with - or get rid of, his death excluded.

However, democracy doesn't exist anywhere and I think Obama is no better than him...

 

[britbox]

Yeah, to all intents and purposes he's a dictator... but agree on your premise... real democracy doesn't exist.

 

[Kieran]

Yeah, to all intents and purposes he's a dictator... but agree on your premise... real democracy doesn't exist.

He's a throwback, really, you know? It proves that maybe democracy isn't workable everywhere. It's certainly been hijacked and tainted in the west. Disproven, actually. It's been replaced by the EU in Europe - another faceless dictatorship - and whatever they have in the States. Putin is practical in the face of this democratic crisis, whatever else about him...

 

[britbox]

Agreed. Egypt is a prime example.

 

[huntingyou]

there is no west vs east when looking at the big picture.

Putin it's as much of a criminal as Assad or Obama. There was never Democracy in Egypt since the US backed strongmen always held the power and still do. As long as western/eastern power are meddling in people's affair; be it international shark lending to African nations, trans-national corporations raping of South america, austerity policy in Europe and US, or just feel good UN engagements around the globe.....the outcome will always be the same.

 

[Asmodeus]

there is no west vs east when looking at the big picture.

Putin it's as much of a criminal as Assad or Obama. There was never Democracy in Egypt since the US backed strongmen always held the power and still do. As long as western/eastern power are meddling in people's affair; be it international shark lending to African nations, trans-national corporations raping of South america, austerity policy in Europe and US, or just feel good UN engagements around the globe.....the outcome will always be the same.

I'm not sure how the western/eastern powers as you describe it are meddling in other's affairs through austerity polices. Aren't they, in this case, meddling with themselves?

 

[huntingyou]

there is no west vs east when looking at the big picture.

Putin it's as much of a criminal as Assad or Obama. There was never Democracy in Egypt since the US backed strongmen always held the power and still do. As long as western/eastern power are meddling in people's affair; be it international shark lending to African nations, trans-national corporations raping of South america, austerity policy in Europe and US, or just feel good UN engagements around the globe.....the outcome will always be the same.

I'm not sure how the western/eastern powers as you describe it are meddling in other's affairs through austerity polices. Aren't they, in this case, meddling with themselves?

meddling with the people!

 

[Asmodeus]

there is no west vs east when looking at the big picture.

Putin it's as much of a criminal as Assad or Obama. There was never Democracy in Egypt since the US backed strongmen always held the power and still do. As long as western/eastern power are meddling in people's affair; be it international shark lending to African nations, trans-national corporations raping of South america, austerity policy in Europe and US, or just feel good UN engagements around the globe.....the outcome will always be the same.

I'm not sure how the western/eastern powers as you describe it are meddling in other's affairs through austerity polices. Aren't they, in this case, meddling with themselves?

meddling with the people!

But aren't they elected by the people to represent them? So, in effect, any meddling is sanctioned by the people themselves. And, if the people don't like it then the one recourse of action are elections.

So I still don't see how austerity polices are meddling. They seem to me to be a self-correcting mechanism to reverse past spending excesses.

 

[huntingyou]

we are talking a different language...people has no choice, democracy it's just an illusion. Spending in the well being of a nation and investing for the future is never an excess...tax cuts for the wealthiest and excessive spending on defense and just plain wasting of money on pet projects that serve no purpose but to enrich few pockets it's shameful and a excess

 

[shawnbm]

Well, I just read on Reuters or Yahoo or whomever that Russia and USA simultaneously announced that each was arming opposing sides of the civil war in Syria--Russia with surface to air and other weapons for Assad and USA giving the rebels (but exactly who?) various arms. Israel has stated in unequivocal terms they will destroy such weapons making their way into Syria which will likely involve Russian casualties. Obama Administration sides with Israel since these STA weapons have a range that extends into Israeli airspace. These Russian weapons would make enforcement of no-fly zones by USA and Israel very hard to accomplish and we are now facing a conflagration over there. Pray for peace.

 

[britbox]

Pray for peace indeed.. I always found it bizarre that Israel find defensive weapons a threat.