Oscar Pistorius Trial

the AntiPusher

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Kieran said:
That money thing is odd, isn't it? Why were they taking such puny sums from him?

Can you imagine what the Soul of that poor woman must be suffering through out there in eternity.. that handicapped bastard shot me to sh#t and my folks are taking less than $600 a month to pay towards their bills.. Unbelivable!
 

Front242

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Give him 25 years. He hasn't a leg to stand on.
 

DarthFed

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Oscar has no money apparently, and given his disability it is unfair to send him to jail where he could be vulnerable.


Note to self: If you have a disability and have lost your fortune trying to get away with murder then you clearly don't deserve jail time. Guess if I want to kill someone I will break my legs afterwards and cry endlessly in court.
 

JesuslookslikeBorg

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when is the sentence being announced ?..i rather hoped that when they all came back in court this week it was to announce the verdict/sentence..

...but oh no, we get more n more of the waffle and the yawn and the endless wittermare without end.
 

Kieran

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JesuslookslikeBorg said:
when is the sentence being announced ?..i rather hoped that when they all came back in court this week it was to announce the verdict/sentence..

...but oh no, we get more n more of the waffle and the yawn and the endless wittermare without end.

There's about six more weeks of this, then a month of choosing what to have for lunch...
 

nehmeth

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Oscar gets 5 years. Could be back to his home under house arrest after 10 months and possibly paroled after 2.5 years.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/22/world/africa/oscar-pistorius-sentenced.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&version=LargeMediaHeadlineSum&module=photo-spot-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news
 

Kieran

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Words can't describe this. I hope the judge gets to serve the rest of the sentence...
 

DarthFed

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Almost surprised she gave him any jail time. All around disgrace, hopefully someone gets to him in jail.
 

the AntiPusher

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Agreed Darth.. with all the TB.. and other infeected diseases.. his lawyer is trying to make an argument about the poor medical conditions.. who gives a rat's as#

Medical care overstretched

In his testimony, the athlete's defense attorney Barry Roux made the point that there was no guarantee that Pistorius would get a single cell if sent there, since the decision is made after a health assessment when he arrives.

He also said that if the athlete is sent to Kgosi Mampuru prison, there is only one doctor based there for roughly 7,000 prisoners. He also argued that keeping Pistorius in a hospital wing would expose him to other illnesses, like tuberculosis.

Prison rights campaigners say overcrowding is a major concern throughout the system. According to Erfani-Ghadimi, it's an issue that puts a strain on sanitation, ventilation and medical care.

The overcrowding means three men may share a single cell, or communal cells for 40 people are jammed with double the number they were intended to hold, with men sleeping in double or triple bunks, according to the Wits Justice Project.

One of the biggest risks associated with that is contracting tuberculosis, labeled the biggest killer in South Africa's prisons in a recent report, Erfani-Ghadimi said. The disease spreads easily in packed, steamy cells with little air.

In some prisons, overstretched nurses can never see all the people needing help on any day, she said. Inconsistent treatment regimens mean drug-resistant TB strains develop and spread, while disruptions to antiretroviral programs also affect detainees who are HIV-positive.

"Also in terms of health management we've seen stories of people who are diabetic and have gone into insulin shock because they've been arrested and haven't been able to get to their medication," Erfani-Ghadimi said.

Overcrowding is an issue across the prison system, Modise acknowledged, but has been reduced from a rate of 63% in 2005 to 31% today.

He said that prisoners are sent to health facilities outside detention centers, if necessary, and that they can also pay for private doctors to come into the prison to see them.

Asked about the problems of gangs and violence in prisons, Modise said that more needs to be done to eradicate gangs outside the prison system and that within the system, authorities are dealing with the issue.

Speaking earlier this year, Correctional Services Minister Sibusiso Ndebele said that "overcrowding at correctional facilities is a global challenge" and that South Africa's prison population had dropped over the past decade.

As of April of this year, there were about 157,400 inmates, of whom nearly 28% were on remand -- a term used for pretrial custody -- according to official figures. The country's total population is about 54 million.

Who is the judge that'll be sentencing Pistorius?

Double-edged sword

There's no doubt that Pistorius' case has put South Africa's justice system under the international spotlight.

While the scrutiny may have been uncomfortable at times for South African authorities, it appears to have worked in the track star's favor until now.

When he was first detained after Steenkamp's killing, the African National Congress Women's League complained that he got special treatment, both in where he was held and in access to his family.

Rise of 'cyberathletes' could change sport as we know it

Some impoverished suspects who can't afford a lawyer or bail spend months or even years waiting for their cases just to come to court. But Pistorius was released on bail with relaxed conditions, and his trial began little more than a year after Steenkamp's death on February 14, 2013.

Erfani-Ghadimi describes his progress through the legal system as "an anomaly" in terms of both speed and the expert resources dedicated to it.

"Other cases normally take much longer, and both the victims and the accused face the strong probability of a miscarriage of justice," she wrote in a piece published on The Conversation website.

However, when it comes to serving time in prison, the athlete's fame -- and the extra attention that goes with it -- could be a double-edged sword when it comes to getting special privileges, she told CNN.

"A lot of people are able to subvert (the system) and pay bribes and get away with things, but he hasn't been able to," she said. "But on the other hand, he has been able to get advantages that other people haven't."

'Living here is very hard'

Some of these differences may be stark.

The Wits Justice Project has highlighted the case of paraplegic inmate Ronnie Fakude, held on remand for 28 months before being freed on bail this year with an electronic tag, in a pilot monitoring project.

Before his release, he described his experience to Carolyn Raphaely, a senior journalist with the project.

"I'm a 50-year-old paraplegic and have been awaiting trial for more than two years since my arrest on fraud charges in December 2011. I can't walk, I can't control my bowel or bladder and have to wear disposable baby nappies which my family buy for me. I'm paralyzed from level four and don't have a wheelchair," he said, according to the project.

"If I use my (crutches) I have to pull my legs and throw them to the front. That's how I walk. Living here is very hard. We are 88 men in this cell which is meant for 32. Sometimes there are more. Twelve people sleep in two bunks pushed together, that's six on the top and six on the bottom. I have my own bed on the bottom, which is a privilege. Luckily, I don't have to share because of my medical status.

"There are eight or 10 people with TB in this cell and four or five we know are HIV-positive. A guy with multi-drug resistant TB sleeps on top of me. I feel vulnerable all the time."

Erfani-Ghadimi argues that as a severely disabled man, Fakude should never have been in detention at all. And if she had her way, the same would be true for Pistorius.

For his part, speaking to CNN's Robyn Curnow in the last few weeks before the sentencing, Pistorius said he would respect and accept the decision of the court and that he was not afraid of imprisonment.

He said he hoped to contribute while in prison by teaching people how to read or start a gym or running club.
 

the AntiPusher

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Kieran said:
Words can't describe this. I hope the judge gets to serve the rest of the sentence...

Mi Lady is full of yesterday's lunch

BTW.. Oscar has been banned

http://espn.go.com/olympics/trackandfield/story/_/id/11737742/oscar-pistorius-paralympic-events-5-years
 

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nehmeth said:
As with so many public trials, what the media sets as the bar to determine guilt is vastly different than the law. Through their efforts to create an audience they adjudicate according to false testimony and conjecture and deceive the public. When once again it turns out that the Law finds the person "not guilty" everyone is surprised. If media would explain trials based on what the Law requires there would not be such a discrepancy, neither would there be the large audiences providing advertising dollars. And so it continues.

Guilt is determined on the basis of what can be proven. That said, Pistorious will still go to jail.

nehmeth said:
That's why we aren't judges. Take away the media hype, the 24/7 coverage, the discussion of each new bit of information whether evidentiary or by testimony your determination might change. It might not.

I did not follow the Casey Anthony trial closely. I heard the evidence, heard the prosecutions arguments and told my friends they'd never find her guilty. Did I stir a hornet's nest! Everyone was sure the prosecution had proven their case, that the "evidence" was more than circumstantial. Casey Anthony was found not guilty. Personally, I thought she was guilty, but the prosecution did not make it's case even though the media backed them 110%.

Needless to say, I am not a fan of media adjudicating trials outside the courtroom.

Today's sentencing reminded me of these posts by Nehmeth, in which he intelligently noted the difference between what we, as outsiders, perceive as the correct outcome vs. the actual law.

In other words, if we were to look at similar verdicts in South Africa, what kind(s) of sentences were given? I have no idea, but it could be that this is completely in line with them, and we could/should have seen it coming, just as Nehmeth foretold the Casey Anthony verdict.
 

nehmeth

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While the judge has been trashed in some sectors, I have heard good things about her from my friends in South Africa. This was a high profile case and the powers that be knew this would receive worldwide scrutiny. They would not put less than one of their best up there.

After being tried and convicted a thousand times over by the media who parses out the information in a way that the audience arrives at its intended conclusions - if a judge (or jury) returns any verdict less than the maximum, it's unacceptable.
 

Kieran

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You're suggesting we're all media stooges, buddy. In fact, people who've followed this thing from the start, and some of them with legal expertise, think this whole show was a joke. Maybe the judge is a good auntie to her nephews, but like judge Ito, she seems to have been out of her depth.

Unless you think the OJ trial was well judged too, and the media made a mountain out of a mole hill there as well... ;)
 

nehmeth

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Sorry you took it personally buddy.

Do I think Pistorius is guilty? Yes. Did I think Casey Anthony was guilty? Yes. Did I think O.J. was guilty? Yes.

So far, Oscar is the only one of the three that is going to do jail time for his crime. :)
 

Kieran

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No, don't worry, I didn't take it personally, it's just a strange comment you made, as if we're all gullibly swallowing media guff and recycling it here as our own.

Yes, Pistorius is going to jail - and he might be out in ten months. For murder.

The shame of this outcome is simple - and it has nothing to do with the media, and everything to do with his own words, which he spoke in court. He was not credible, to put it mildly, and the version of events which he outlined was implausible. Then for the judge to say that she believed him, and that he couldn't have known he'd kill somebody by firing a round into the toilet?

Sorry, none of this computes. I don't find justice to have been done there at all...
 

DarthFed

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There's nothing wrong with what Nehmeth is saying. There is definitely a "mob" type attitude towards some or most of these high profile cases and the media frenzy can play a big part.

That said I didn't see much of that here in the States for this case. Oscar's story just simply does not pass any kind of common sense test. Between that, his mixed up testimony and the neighbors who testified they heard what appeared to be a loud argument before the gun fire I think it is beyond a reasonable doubt. Even without any of the testimony the fact remains that he would have to be the biggest idiot any of us has ever heard of for his version to be true.
 

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Here is my problem: In the legal system here ( I am not saying "justice" system, since that has been gone long time ago ), "beyond a reasonable doubt" in practice has been replaced by " beyond a shadow of a doubt". The defense lawyers can spin any story, any version of an event and if a juror feels like " Well, yeah, this could happen, even if it has just %1 of a chance" , then it is acquittal. Nobody cares if the doubt is reasonable or not anymore. As long as you plant the seed of any doubt, you have saved your guy from prison, or serious time, or the chair.

I am not saying throw everyone in jail but a bit more common sense...
 

the AntiPusher

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1972Murat said:
Here is my problem: In the legal system here ( I am not saying "justice" system, since that has been gone long time ago ), "beyond a reasonable doubt" in practice has been replaced by " beyond a shadow of a doubt". The defense lawyers can spin any story, any version of an event and if a juror feels like " Well, yeah, this could happen, even if it has just %1 of a chance" , then it is acquittal. Nobody cares if the doubt is reasonable or not anymore. As long as you plant the seed of any doubt, you have saved your guy from prison, or serious time, or the chair.

I am not saying throw everyone in jail but a bit more common sense...

Lets just be truthful .. if you are rich ..its beyond the shadow of a doubt.. if you are poor your Ass is going up the River.. In Oscar case... Mi Lady was a pure disgrace.. She got paid.. It would be interesting to see if Oscar stays in jail more than 10 months