Nitto ATP Finals, 2019, London

[Andy22]

Federer might not even make to semi finals with Djokovic+thiem both owning him lately or at least Djokovic.

 

[Moxie]

I do hope the same for Nadal, but for another reason of course. If he didn’t play well or is still injured, he can’t meet Novak or Federer in SF or F.
Despite these record discussions, for me it’s more important that Novak improves his h2h record against these two Greats! So he has to play them. To have a positive record against BOTH is absolutely unique.
Let’s both hope they will battle against each other.

Given how long it took him to get the better of those h2hs, I don't think it matters that much, esp. anymore.

 

[Fiero425]

I hated those groups. It is the last combination I would pick myself. To begin with it pits my two favorite players together (Federer and Thiem), and denies Federer getting one more win over Nadal.

Fed still has a very slim chance of meeting Nadal in the SF; esp. if HELL freezes over! Fedal could even go on a tear & meet in the final!

 

[Bonaca]

Given how long it took him to get the better of those h2hs, I don't think it matters that much, esp. anymore.

I think, because of that long time and difficulty, it counts for both.
At least it counts for me .

 

[Bonaca]

Federer might not even make to semi finals with Djokovic+thiem both owning him lately or at least Djokovic.

I see Roger and Novak in front, if Roger shows his Basel-level and Novak Paris-level, Roger will win the group.
Nadal should really win his group, because in this case he has only one of them to play.
I hope we see good matches and healthy players.

 

[don_fabio]

Yeah, there is a question mark over Nadal and remains to be seen if he will even play all 3 group matches. Can't believe he got 3 next genners.

Novak got a bit lucky there avoiding all next genners except Matteo who should not be a threat to him unlike the others who managed to beat him before. I guess Novak is a favourite to win it. Hopefully he won't come out flat like in a last year final and will fight better to win the tournament.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Federer might not even make to semi finals with Djokovic+thiem both owning him lately or at least Djokovic.

Roger isn't going to loose to the next Gen pretenders..Thiem will give him a Battle.. Roger will be around for the semi's ..you can book it

 

[GameSetAndMath]

It’s kind of conspicuous that most of Nadal fans don’t give much about WTF, where every year end the best players play for the crown. Why is that so?
Is the connection only coincidental?

They don't worry about Ralph becoming the best of the best.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Federer might not even make to semi finals with Djokovic+thiem both owning him lately or at least Djokovic.

Thiem has weakness on hard courts and especially on indoors. Fed should easily make it to SF.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

I see Roger and Novak in front, if Roger shows his Basel-level and Novak Paris-level, Roger will win the group.
Nadal should really win his group, because in this case he has only one of them to play.
I hope we see good matches and healthy players.

It really does not matter. Whether Rafa wins his group or not, he will most probably be forced to beat both Novak and Federer, if he wants the trophy. Only the order in which he faces them will be different based on whether he wins the group or not.

 

[Mile]

If Djokovic or Nadal win London, they might enter for Laureus award.

 

[Nadalfan2013]

I do hope the same for Nadal, but for another reason of course. If he didn’t play well or is still injured, he can’t meet Novak or Federer in SF or F.
Despite these record discussions, for me it’s more important that Novak improves his h2h record against these two Greats! So he has to play them. To have a positive record against BOTH is absolutely unique.
Let’s both hope they will battle against each other.

Sorry to burst your bubble but what matters most is the h2h in slams and when it comes to Djokovic vs Nadal he is 6-9 against him. If slam titles are the most important than slam h2h is too. Have a nice day!

 

[atttomole]

I see Roger and Novak in front, if Roger shows his Basel-level and Novak Paris-level, Roger will win the group.
Nadal should really win his group, because in this case he has only one of them to play.
I hope we see good matches and healthy players.

I don’t see Roger winning the group. Novak is most likely going to beat him, and Thiem has beaten him at least twice this year. I think he can beat Berrettini though.

 

[Bonaca]

Sorry to burst your bubble but what matters most is the h2h in slams and when it comes to Djokovic vs Nadal he is 6-9 against him. If slam titles are the most important than slam h2h is too. Have a nice day!

Meanings differ about that.
Every win and lost counts, so the overall h2h is the most important. That’s why it’s called OVERALL.
All of the 3 are highly ambitious, it matters.
You say Nadal is Goat, but in over 50 matches he loses more than won against Novak, how that sound to you. If Nadal is Goat, how you call the player who beat him the most ? Super- GOAT? I can accept that

 

[Bonaca]

It really does not matter. Whether Rafa wins his group or not, he will most probably be forced to beat both Novak and Federer, if he wants the trophy. Only the order in which he faces them will be different based on whether he wins the group or not.

Nope.
Only if you think he wins the SF.
I don’t think so.
Positive for him is, in this scenario he will only worsen one of his h2h records.
I agree, if good-Roger shows up , he’s the man to beat.

 

[Bonaca]

I don’t see Roger winning the group. Novak is most likely going to beat him, and Thiem has beaten him at least twice this year. I think he can beat Berrettini though.

Not sure about that.
When Novak can raise his Paris level, yes, otherwise Rogers the favorite for me.
Hopefully the sausage from Vienna will be cooked by both of them!

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Nope.
Only if you think he wins the SF.
I don’t think so.
Positive for him is, in this scenario he will only worsen one of his h2h records.
I agree, if good-Roger shows up , he’s the man to beat.

I suppose by the "he" above refers to Rafa. If you are assuming he (Rafa) loses the semifinal, he has to play only one of Fed or Novak independent of whether Rafa wins his group or not. So, either way you don't make sense.

 

[Moxie]

It really does not matter. Whether Rafa wins his group or not, he will most probably be forced to beat both Novak and Federer, if he wants the trophy. Only the order in which he faces them will be different based on whether he wins the group or not.

And folks wonder, and consider it a black mark, that Rafa hasn't won this. Novak and Roger on their 2nd best surfaces, each (indoor HC.) Since 2005, (the first year Rafa qualified,) Fed and Joker have won it 9 times in 14 events, and Rafa hasn't even played them all since then.

 

[Moxie]

It’s kind of conspicuous that most of Nadal fans don’t give much about WTF, where every year end the best players play for the crown. Why is that so?
Is the connection only coincidental?

It's kind of an anomalous event, you have to say. It has moved around a lot over the years, changed names a few times, too, so not as hallowed as the Slams. But it's mostly always played on indoor HCs, and almost always in the Northern Hemisphere. Is there a good argument for that? I'm not convinced. Next year it moves to Torino. Again, indoor HC, and in Europe. And probably, as at the O2 in London, or Madison Square Garden in the old days, to be played on a makeshift court that stands for only a couple of weeks, at best. Funny how we can't get a MS 1000 on grass due to limits from the facilities, but they can play the YEC for 1500 points on any random concrete surface that can hold up for 15 days and win the bid.

Are Nadal fans a bit unenthused by this? Sure. But you might also ask yourself if it's a coincidence that Federer and Djokovic fans are so happy about it. It suits your faves. It's an interesting format, in that we get to see top guys play against each other, when maybe they don't meet often across the year. And we get to see how match-ups work, in short succession, since it's not sudden-death. But only on the one surface. All I've ever argued for is that they could rotate more, in terms of venues and surfaces, to get the most for the fans, across the globe, and the most interesting match-ups on various surfaces. However, as soon as I say that, someone will only say that I'm campaigning for a way that Rafa could win it. As @El Dude likes to do to me....and 3, 2, 1.

 

[El Dude]

Clearly you're just campaigning for a way that Rafa can win it, Moxie.