2023 Predictions and Questions

El Dude

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While we've still got Paris and the World Tour Finals, I thought it wasn't too soon to start a 2023 Predictions thread. But I'd like to broaden it a bit and ask, what are the big questions going into next year?

My thoughts will be in a follow-up post.
 

Moxie

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I think it's a good time to start it, so, thanks! I do have a few questions, more than predictions, probably, at this point. One question that crossed my mind and seemed too early to ask anywhere: What is Wimbledon going to do if the war in Ukraine is still going on? Continue to ban Russian and Belarusian players? If they don't, then what of their stand last year? They already sort of have egg on their face since this year's Ladies' Champion, Elena Rybakina, is Moscow-born and lives in Moscow. We all know that many "Kazakhstani" players are really Russian.

The obvious question, I guess: what happens between Rafa and Novak in the Majors race?

As a die-hard Nadal fan, I have to be asking how much longer he plays? Even if he stays healthy, there is the baby, now. Is the Majors race enough to keep him motivated? For how much longer? :cry:

How much longer will Stan and Andy stay in? What of the Thiem and Coric comebacks? I might put Berrettini in here, as he has had a lot of injury/illness bad luck this past year. I want to keep him in the "buy" category. Oh, and though I don't like him, I guess we'll be wondering how Zverev comes back. (Sasha WHO?)

A lot of the rest comes down to younger players and breakthroughs. I don't consider it a bold prediction to say that Alcaraz will continue to improve. You've already said that Felix may be on the verge of what he's been promising, on another thread, but he's your man, so I'll let you say it here. Good chance, I think.

I could do a buy/hold/sell on a few players, but will let others way in before getting into the weeds.

Oh, and this is the ATP thread, but will be curious to see what happens with the Halep drug ban.
 
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El Dude

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Mine are less predictions, and more considerations around certain questions. With Roger Federer retiring, it seems we are truly coming to the end of an era - a mythological Shifting of the Ages. Novak Djokovic and Rafael Nadal still have gas left in their respective tanks, but how much remains to be seen. So that would be my first big question:

What can we expect from Novak and Rafa?
Despite the emergence of Carlos Alcaraz as the heir apparent, a healthy and not-yet-massively-aged Novak and Rafa will still determine the shape of the 2023 season. Meaning, as much as I think Alcaraz is legit, I don't think he is quite yet "the guy to beat" - that Novak and Rafa still hold that down. I mean, they won 3 of 4 Slams last year, and while their dominance is eroding on the Masters tour, they're still the two best players on tour...if healthy.

How will Alcaraz handle being #1?
I think we can all be fairly confident that Alcaraz is legit and the question is not whether he'll be great, but how great; that is, where along the "Kuerten to Nadal" spectrum of greatness he'll end up in...and that won't be answered in 2023. I see his big task for 2023 being consolidation. And by that, I don't mean staying at #1, but staying in the top 3 or so, winning big titles, and going deep in Slams. We can look to Pete Sampras as an example of a dominant #1 who took a bit of time to find his peak level, with his first Slam title the 1990 US Open (at age 19, Alcaraz's age) and his second Slam title not coming until almost three years later at the 1993 Wimbledon, when he was almost 22. I'm not suggesting that Alcaraz will have that sort of delay winning his second Slam, but chances are that he won't hold onto #1 all year, or even for most of the year, and if and when he does fall from #1 and/or not pile on more Slam titles, we shouldn't be worried or surprised. His ranking, while earned, was at least partially the result of the context of the modern tour, perhaps most especially Novak's barring from the AO and not getting Wimbledon points.

Carlos reached #1 at a younger age than anyone has in the Open Era. Others have reached greatness at such a young age--most recently Rafa--but none have had to bear the burden of being King of the Hill. In fact, for an example of consolidation we can look at Rafa's early career: After his rise in 2005, the next two years were really about consolidation as the King of Clay, but the Prince of Everything Else. It wasn't until 2008 that he made his push to the top spot and supplanted the reigning King, Roger Federer.

So my question is also my prediction: the next year or two will be about consolidation for Alcaraz. This isn't the beginning of his reign as the singular best player on tour, but his arrival as the next surefire all-time great, and a preview of the decade to come. I do think he projects as the best player of the next decade; it isn't a certainty, but he is the most likely candidate. But if and when he becomes the clear top dog on tour, it will likely take another couple years. Which brings me to....

What can we expect from Jannik Sinner, Felix Auger-Aliassime, and Holger Rune?
Along with Alcaraz, these are the top "Millennial Gen" players (born 1999-2003) - with apologies to Denis Shapovalov, Lorenzo Musetti, Sebastian Korda, Jenson Brooksby and one or two others...all of whom have a place in the top 20 (even top 10) going forward, but are a step down, in my opinion.

Sinner was a guy that I pegged for a Masters in 2022, with FAA a darkhorse. But both did improve - Sinner reached three Slam QFs, but didn't really take that step forward. It seems imminent, however. FAA's Slam performance dropped a bit, but his performance everywhere else improved, and now he plays for the title in Basel which, if he wins, will be his third title of the year. We've seen a high, elite level of performance; what remains is for him to be more consistent, and when it matters most.

Holger Rune might be the Millennial that we will learn to love to hate, with hints of a Tsitsipas-esque attitude. But he's been charging up the rankings, from ending 2021 at #103 to #18 in the live rankings as of today. That sort of jump is exactly what you want to see from a future elite, as far as historical precedents are concerned. While he's a bit behind Sinner and FAA, he's closing the gap rather quickly.

Whither Next Gen?
Let us not forget that less than a year ago, Daniil Medvedev looked like the guy who might supplant Novak and Rafa, and even reached #1 earlier this year. But after a crushing defeat at the AO by Rafa, he hasn't looked the same this year. He's still just 26, however, and there's no reason to think he can't at least remain a top 5 guy and Slam contender for several years to come.

Which brings me to Stefanos Tsitsipas and Alexander Zverev, the latter of whom was the first Next Genner to win a big title, all the way back in 2017. Since then, Sascha has won a total of 8 big titles, the same as Michael Chang, Guillermo Vilas, and Arthur Ashe, and just one behind Gustavo Kuerten, Thomas Muster, and Jim Courier. Yet still no Slam. It seems all but certain that he'll become just the 18th player to win 10+ big titles in the Open Era, and it is hard to imagine that a player with that sort of resume doesn't win at least one Slam, if not two or three. Could 2023 be Sascha's year?

Filling out the "Biggish Three" of Next Gen (assuming we count Dominic Thiem as Lost rather Next Gen) is Stefanos Tsitsipas, who has followed a similar career arc as Zverev, just a couple years behind and with fewer big titles. But he remains a perennial candidate to break through and is too young (24) to write off as a future Slam winner, and certainly too soon to write Zverev and Tsitsipas off as the Tsonga and Berdych of the current era. They're both already far more accomplished, in terms of big titles, with Tsitsipas alone having the same total as Tsonga and Berdych combined (3).

Other Next Genners who are candidates for their first big title are Andrey Rublev, Matteo Berretini, and Frances Tiafoe. Rublev and Berretini seem overdue, and were candidates going into 2022 - and even 2021. Oh, and Casper Ruud - who, born at the end of 1998 - is cuspish for Next/Millennial Gens. And Next Genners who hope to re-capture or continue their success are Hubert Hurkacz, Taylor Fritz, Karen Khachanov, and Cameron Norrie - all of whom have one Masters to their name.

Darkhorse Players
Here I will mention Nick Kyrgios and Dominic Thiem, the former perhaps the true Next Genner and the latter on the cusp of Lost and Next Gens. Can Thiem recapture his prior success? Can Kyrgios build upon his performance of 2022 and finally fulfill his potential as more than just a dangerous floater, and an actual big title--even Slam--threat?

And Lost Gen?
It really looks definitive that we'll see no Slam winners among players born in 1989-92, the Lost Gen, with Dominic Thiem (b. 1993) the first in a five-year span, since Cilic and Del Potro (b. 1988). In fact, of players born in the 1989-95 range, only Grigor Dimitrov, Dominic Thiem, and Jack Sock won any big titles, and only Thiem a Slam.

Anyhow, the question is whether any of these guys will come back in any form or fashion. Not really a consequential question, but something to consider. Grigor is still plugging along in the top 40, but hasn't won a title since 2017. Who knows if Kei will come back from his hip surgery...and he's turning 33 shortly. Poor Milos snuck by Roger at the 2016 WImbledon, but got beat by Andy in the final. I just don't see a "comeback" from any of these guys. In the end, this is always going to be the generation that tennis history skipped over.
 

MargaretMcAleer

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Mine are less predictions, and more considerations around certain questions. With Roger Federer retiring, it seems we are truly coming to the end of an era - a mythological Shifting of the Ages. Novak Djokovic and Rafael Nadal still have gas left in their respective tanks, but how much remains to be seen. So that would be my first big question:

What can we expect from Novak and Rafa?
Despite the emergence of Carlos Alcaraz as the heir apparent, a healthy and not-yet-massively-aged Novak and Rafa will still determine the shape of the 2023 season. Meaning, as much as I think Alcaraz is legit, I don't think he is quite yet "the guy to beat" - that Novak and Rafa still hold that down. I mean, they won 3 of 4 Slams last year, and while their dominance is eroding on the Masters tour, they're still the two best players on tour...if healthy.

How will Alcaraz handle being #1?
I think we can all be fairly confident that Alcaraz is legit and the question is not whether he'll be great, but how great; that is, where along the "Kuerten to Nadal" spectrum of greatness he'll end up in...and that won't be answered in 2023. I see his big task for 2023 being consolidation. And by that, I don't mean staying at #1, but staying in the top 3 or so, winning big titles, and going deep in Slams. We can look to Pete Sampras as an example of a dominant #1 who took a bit of time to find his peak level, with his first Slam title the 1990 US Open (at age 19, Alcaraz's age) and his second Slam title not coming until almost three years later at the 1993 Wimbledon, when he was almost 22. I'm not suggesting that Alcaraz will have that sort of delay winning his second Slam, but chances are that he won't hold onto #1 all year, or even for most of the year, and if and when he does fall from #1 and/or not pile on more Slam titles, we shouldn't be worried or surprised. His ranking, while earned, was at least partially the result of the context of the modern tour, perhaps most especially Novak's barring from the AO and not getting Wimbledon points.

Carlos reached #1 at a younger age than anyone has in the Open Era. Others have reached greatness at such a young age--most recently Rafa--but none have had to bear the burden of being King of the Hill. In fact, for an example of consolidation we can look at Rafa's early career: After his rise in 2005, the next two years were really about consolidation as the King of Clay, but the Prince of Everything Else. It wasn't until 2008 that he made his push to the top spot and supplanted the reigning King, Roger Federer.

So my question is also my prediction: the next year or two will be about consolidation for Alcaraz. This isn't the beginning of his reign as the singular best player on tour, but his arrival as the next surefire all-time great, and a preview of the decade to come. I do think he projects as the best player of the next decade; it isn't a certainty, but he is the most likely candidate. But if and when he becomes the clear top dog on tour, it will likely take another couple years. Which brings me to....

What can we expect from Jannik Sinner, Felix Auger-Aliassime, and Holger Rune?
Along with Alcaraz, these are the top "Millennial Gen" players (born 1999-2003) - with apologies to Denis Shapovalov, Lorenzo Musetti, Sebastian Korda, Jenson Brooksby and one or two others...all of whom have a place in the top 20 (even top 10) going forward, but are a step down, in my opinion.

Sinner was a guy that I pegged for a Masters in 2022, with FAA a darkhorse. But both did improve - Sinner reached three Slam QFs, but didn't really take that step forward. It seems imminent, however. FAA's Slam performance dropped a bit, but his performance everywhere else improved, and now he plays for the title in Basel which, if he wins, will be his third title of the year. We've seen a high, elite level of performance; what remains is for him to be more consistent, and when it matters most.

Holger Rune might be the Millennial that we will learn to love to hate, with hints of a Tsitsipas-esque attitude. But he's been charging up the rankings, from ending 2021 at #103 to #18 in the live rankings as of today. That sort of jump is exactly what you want to see from a future elite, as far as historical precedents are concerned. While he's a bit behind Sinner and FAA, he's closing the gap rather quickly.

Whither Next Gen?
Let us not forget that less than a year ago, Daniil Medvedev looked like the guy who might supplant Novak and Rafa, and even reached #1 earlier this year. But after a crushing defeat at the AO by Rafa, he hasn't looked the same this year. He's still just 26, however, and there's no reason to think he can't at least remain a top 5 guy and Slam contender for several years to come.

Which brings me to Stefanos Tsitsipas and Alexander Zverev, the latter of whom was the first Next Genner to win a big title, all the way back in 2017. Since then, Sascha has won a total of 8 big titles, the same as Michael Chang, Guillermo Vilas, and Arthur Ashe, and just one behind Gustavo Kuerten, Thomas Muster, and Jim Courier. Yet still no Slam. It seems all but certain that he'll become just the 18th player to win 10+ big titles in the Open Era, and it is hard to imagine that a player with that sort of resume doesn't win at least one Slam, if not two or three. Could 2023 be Sascha's year?

Filling out the "Biggish Three" of Next Gen (assuming we count Dominic Thiem as Lost rather Next Gen) is Stefanos Tsitsipas, who has followed a similar career arc as Zverev, just a couple years behind and with fewer big titles. But he remains a perennial candidate to break through and is too young (24) to write off as a future Slam winner, and certainly too soon to write Zverev and Tsitsipas off as the Tsonga and Berdych of the current era. They're both already far more accomplished, in terms of big titles, with Tsitsipas alone having the same total as Tsonga and Berdych combined (3).

Other Next Genners who are candidates for their first big title are Andrey Rublev, Matteo Berretini, and Frances Tiafoe. Rublev and Berretini seem overdue, and were candidates going into 2022 - and even 2021. Oh, and Casper Ruud - who, born at the end of 1998 - is cuspish for Next/Millennial Gens. And Next Genners who hope to re-capture or continue their success are Hubert Hurkacz, Taylor Fritz, Karen Khachanov, and Cameron Norrie - all of whom have one Masters to their name.

Darkhorse Players
Here I will mention Nick Kyrgios and Dominic Thiem, the former perhaps the true Next Genner and the latter on the cusp of Lost and Next Gens. Can Thiem recapture his prior success? Can Kyrgios build upon his performance of 2022 and finally fulfill his potential as more than just a dangerous floater, and an actual big title--even Slam--threat?

And Lost Gen?
It really looks definitive that we'll see no Slam winners among players born in 1989-92, the Lost Gen, with Dominic Thiem (b. 1993) the first in a five-year span, since Cilic and Del Potro (b. 1988). In fact, of players born in the 1989-95 range, only Grigor Dimitrov, Dominic Thiem, and Jack Sock won any big titles, and only Thiem a Slam.

Anyhow, the question is whether any of these guys will come back in any form or fashion. Not really a consequential question, but something to consider. Grigor is still plugging along in the top 40, but hasn't won a title since 2017. Who knows if Kei will come back from his hip surgery...and he's turning 33 shortly. Poor Milos snuck by Roger at the 2016 WImbledon, but got beat by Andy in the final. I just don't see a "comeback" from any of these guys. In the end, this is always going to be the generation that tennis history skipped over.
I dont mean to make excuses for Sinner,though he has had a year with many injuries at the wrong time and also having COVID, I thought like you he might be able to win his 1st Masters 1000 this year, though again his ankle is giving him trouble.I feel he should end his season, rest and then begin a good training off season with Cahill, though he is playing Paris.
Hopefully in 2023,he can take that big step forward as he has soo much upside in his game and thankfully has a great coach to take him to the next level.
 
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Nadalfan2013

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In summary I would say that 2023 will be the end of Nadal/Djokovic, they will continue doing well but they won't win a slam...

I predict that slams will go to the likes of Alcaraz, FAA, Medvedev, possibly Sinner or Berrettini, even Ruud...

I would love to see Thiem continue improving and possibly win a 2nd slam in the next couple of years...

Meanwhile Zverev is a big question mark...

Can Kyrgios, Tiafoe, Coric, Fritz continue improving? What about Shapovalov?

A lot of hype about Rune but I haven't watched him a lot yet, but I know of the stories about his horrible attitude so I'm not in a hurry to watch him...

Basically I find that 2023 will be very exciting and the start of a new era with many different slam champions, kind of like on the women's side. It's perfect timing as I find the 22-21-20 ending very fitting and makes me happy as a Nadal fan.
 

Moxie

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What can we expect from Novak and Rafa?
Despite the emergence of Carlos Alcaraz as the heir apparent, a healthy and not-yet-massively-aged Novak and Rafa will still determine the shape of the 2023 season. Meaning, as much as I think Alcaraz is legit, I don't think he is quite yet "the guy to beat" - that Novak and Rafa still hold that down. I mean, they won 3 of 4 Slams last year, and while their dominance is eroding on the Masters tour, they're still the two best players on tour...if healthy.
Alcaraz is young. (More on this below.) Agreed that the two to beat are still Rafa and Novak, however long-in-the-tooth. This is why some, (say, on the Paris thread,) complain about easy competition in draws. (Also, hard, because they are partisans.) But it comes partly down to who really IS competition for them? Mostly, each other. They are, what should I say, thrice in a lifetime comets that crossed our sky, and happened to come at basically the same time, with Roger. If we keep looking for the Roger/Rafa/Novak, we will be in for a world of hurt, if you ask me. They dominate less in the Masters because they care less, right? Could be Bo3, but I really think it's about priorities.
How will Alcaraz handle being #1?
I think we can all be fairly confident that Alcaraz is legit and the question is not whether he'll be great, but how great; that is, where along the "Kuerten to Nadal" spectrum of greatness he'll end up in...and that won't be answered in 2023.
"Kuerten to Nadal" spectrum? When was that ever a spectrum? Kuerten won 3 x Majors, but all at RG. That does not seem to be Charly's path. Maybe you mean Murray or Wawrinka, in that 3 may be the cap? Not sure where Kuerten comes in. Do clarify.
I see his big task for 2023 being consolidation. And by that, I don't mean staying at #1, but staying in the top 3 or so, winning big titles, and going deep in Slams. We can look to Pete Sampras as an example of a dominant #1 who took a bit of time to find his peak level, with his first Slam title the 1990 US Open (at age 19, Alcaraz's age) and his second Slam title not coming until almost three years later at the 1993 Wimbledon, when he was almost 22. I'm not suggesting that Alcaraz will have that sort of delay winning his second Slam, but chances are that he won't hold onto #1 all year, or even for most of the year, and if and when he does fall from #1 and/or not pile on more Slam titles, we shouldn't be worried or surprised. His ranking, while earned, was at least partially the result of the context of the modern tour, perhaps most especially Novak's barring from the AO and not getting Wimbledon points.
I do agree that he rather fell into the #1, and I don't expect him to hold it that long. (Without looking at the points.) I agree that staying in the top 3-5 for the next while would show that he's in it. But different eras make it easier/more difficult for the #1 to shift. I think we're about to enter another time when it won't be that hard. You say it took Pete until nearly 22 to become dominant. Same as Roger. Novak won a Major at 20, but had a 3-year gap until the next. Rafa was our last great teenager, but it took him 5 Majors to get to #1. It depends on the times you play in, in a lot of ways. I think Alcaraz playing in what will be a transitional phase. He'll likely nip in and out of #1, stay for a time, and we'll see how many Majors he wins.
Carlos reached #1 at a younger age than anyone has in the Open Era. Others have reached greatness at such a young age--most recently Rafa--but none have had to bear the burden of being King of the Hill. In fact, for an example of consolidation we can look at Rafa's early career: After his rise in 2005, the next two years were really about consolidation as the King of Clay, but the Prince of Everything Else. It wasn't until 2008 that he made his push to the top spot and supplanted the reigning King, Roger Federer.
Rafa had Roger in front of him. When Novak and Rafa are gone, who will Carlos have in front of him? Who has ever had to win 5 Majors to get to #1? This is not going to happen to Alcaraz. Unless he has a big sink, or injury, he's going to be the top of his pack, one has to think.
So my question is also my prediction: the next year or two will be about consolidation for Alcaraz. This isn't the beginning of his reign as the singular best player on tour, but his arrival as the next surefire all-time great, and a preview of the decade to come. I do think he projects as the best player of the next decade; it isn't a certainty, but he is the most likely candidate. But if and when he becomes the clear top dog on tour, it will likely take another couple years.
Fair enough. He's got a great team behind him, but he IS 19.
Which brings me to....

What can we expect from Jannik Sinner, Felix Auger-Aliassime, and Holger Rune?
Along with Alcaraz, these are the top "Millennial Gen" players (born 1999-2003) - with apologies to Denis Shapovalov, Lorenzo Musetti, Sebastian Korda, Jenson Brooksby and one or two others...all of whom have a place in the top 20 (even top 10) going forward, but are a step down, in my opinion.
All good mentions, and agreed.
Sinner was a guy that I pegged for a Masters in 2022, with FAA a darkhorse. But both did improve - Sinner reached three Slam QFs, but didn't really take that step forward. It seems imminent, however. FAA's Slam performance dropped a bit, but his performance everywhere else improved, and now he plays for the title in Basel which, if he wins, will be his third title of the year. We've seen a high, elite level of performance; what remains is for him to be more consistent, and when it matters most.

Holger Rune might be the Millennial that we will learn to love to hate, with hints of a Tsitsipas-esque attitude. But he's been charging up the rankings, from ending 2021 at #103 to #18 in the live rankings as of today. That sort of jump is exactly what you want to see from a future elite, as far as historical precedents are concerned. While he's a bit behind Sinner and FAA, he's closing the gap rather quickly.
All good points, and I guess we have to hope that Rune stops being such a d*ck.
Whither Next Gen?
Let us not forget that less than a year ago, Daniil Medvedev looked like the guy who might supplant Novak and Rafa, and even reached #1 earlier this year. But after a crushing defeat at the AO by Rafa, he hasn't looked the same this year. He's still just 26, however, and there's no reason to think he can't at least remain a top 5 guy and Slam contender for several years to come.
Not forgetting Medvedev. I still think he has the makings of multiple Slam winner. He'd be my pick for YEC, right now, based on the way he looks on indoor-hards.
Which brings me to Stefanos Tsitsipas and Alexander Zverev, the latter of whom was the first Next Genner to win a big title, all the way back in 2017. Since then, Sascha has won a total of 8 big titles, the same as Michael Chang, Guillermo Vilas, and Arthur Ashe, and just one behind Gustavo Kuerten, Thomas Muster, and Jim Courier. Yet still no Slam. It seems all but certain that he'll become just the 18th player to win 10+ big titles in the Open Era, and it is hard to imagine that a player with that sort of resume doesn't win at least one Slam, if not two or three. Could 2023 be Sascha's year?
No. I think injury and otherwise distraction will do him in.
Filling out the "Biggish Three" of Next Gen (assuming we count Dominic Thiem as Lost rather Next Gen) is Stefanos Tsitsipas, who has followed a similar career arc as Zverev, just a couple years behind and with fewer big titles. But he remains a perennial candidate to break through and is too young (24) to write off as a future Slam winner, and certainly too soon to write Zverev and Tsitsipas off as the Tsonga and Berdych of the current era. They're both already far more accomplished, in terms of big titles, with Tsitsipas alone having the same total as Tsonga and Berdych combined (3).
LOL at the "Tsonga and Berdych" of the current era. I'm getting the feeling they might be.
Other Next Genners who are candidates for their first big title are Andrey Rublev, Matteo Berretini, and Frances Tiafoe. Rublev and Berretini seem overdue, and were candidates going into 2022 - and even 2021. Oh, and Casper Ruud - who, born at the end of 1998 - is cuspish for Next/Millennial Gens. And Next Genners who hope to re-capture or continue their success are Hubert Hurkacz, Taylor Fritz, Karen Khachanov, and Cameron Norrie - all of whom have one Masters to their name.
I'm inclined to "sell" on Rublev. I'm still holding out a lot of hope for Berrettini, and some for Tiafoe.
Darkhorse Players
Here I will mention Nick Kyrgios and Dominic Thiem, the former perhaps the true Next Genner and the latter on the cusp of Lost and Next Gens. Can Thiem recapture his prior success? Can Kyrgios build upon his performance of 2022 and finally fulfill his potential as more than just a dangerous floater, and an actual big title--even Slam--threat?
Hoping for that, in terms of both.
And Lost Gen?
It really looks definitive that we'll see no Slam winners among players born in 1989-92, the Lost Gen, with Dominic Thiem (b. 1993) the first in a five-year span, since Cilic and Del Potro (b. 1988). In fact, of players born in the 1989-95 range, only Grigor Dimitrov, Dominic Thiem, and Jack Sock won any big titles, and only Thiem a Slam.

Anyhow, the question is whether any of these guys will come back in any form or fashion. Not really a consequential question, but something to consider. Grigor is still plugging along in the top 40, but hasn't won a title since 2017. Who knows if Kei will come back from his hip surgery...and he's turning 33 shortly. Poor Milos snuck by Roger at the 2016 WImbledon, but got beat by Andy in the final. I just don't see a "comeback" from any of these guys. In the end, this is always going to be the generation that tennis history skipped over.
Lost Gen is cooked, and I don't put Thiem in that group. That is my prediction...also, not a brave one.
 

MargaretMcAleer

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Alcaraz is young. (More on this below.) Agreed that the two to beat are still Rafa and Novak, however long-in-the-tooth. This is why some, (say, on the Paris thread,) complain about easy competition in draws. (Also, hard, because they are partisans.) But it comes partly down to who really IS competition for them? Mostly, each other. They are, what should I say, thrice in a lifetime comets that crossed our sky, and happened to come at basically the same time, with Roger. If we keep looking for the Roger/Rafa/Novak, we will be in for a world of hurt, if you ask me. They dominate less in the Masters because they care less, right? Could be Bo3, but I really think it's about priorities.

"Kuerten to Nadal" spectrum? When was that ever a spectrum? Kuerten won 3 x Majors, but all at RG. That does not seem to be Charly's path. Maybe you mean Murray or Wawrinka, in that 3 may be the cap? Not sure where Kuerten comes in. Do clarify.

I do agree that he rather fell into the #1, and I don't expect him to hold it that long. (Without looking at the points.) I agree that staying in the top 3-5 for the next while would show that he's in it. But different eras make it easier/more difficult for the #1 to shift. I think we're about to enter another time when it won't be that hard. You say it took Pete until nearly 22 to become dominant. Same as Roger. Novak won a Major at 20, but had a 3-year gap until the next. Rafa was our last great teenager, but it took him 5 Majors to get to #1. It depends on the times you play in, in a lot of ways. I think Alcaraz playing in what will be a transitional phase. He'll likely nip in and out of #1, stay for a time, and we'll see how many Majors he wins.

Rafa had Roger in front of him. When Novak and Rafa are gone, who will Carlos have in front of him? Who has ever had to win 5 Majors to get to #1? This is not going to happen to Alcaraz. Unless he has a big sink, or injury, he's going to be the top of his pack, one has to think.

Fair enough. He's got a great team behind him, but he IS 19.

All good mentions, and agreed.

All good points, and I guess we have to hope that Rune stops being such a d*ck.

Not forgetting Medvedev. I still think he has the makings of multiple Slam winner. He'd be my pick for YEC, right now, based on the way he looks on indoor-hards.

No. I think injury and otherwise distraction will do him in.

LOL at the "Tsonga and Berdych" of the current era. I'm getting the feeling they might be.

I'm inclined to "sell" on Rublev. I'm still holding out a lot of hope for Berrettini, and some for Tiafoe.

Hoping for that, in terms of both.

Lost Gen is cooked, and I don't put Thiem in that group. That is my prediction...also, not a brave one.
In regards to Berrettini, to me he hasnt been the same player since he got COVID just before Wimbledon started this year, before Wimbledon he was playing great tennis on the grass in the lead up tournaments, I thought he could go deep again at Wimbledon this year.I will wait to see how his form is, in 2023, like you I am holding hope.
 
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Moxie

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In regards to Berrettini, to me he hasnt been the same player since he got COVID just before Wimbledon started this year, before Wimbledon he was playing great tennis on the grass in the lead up tournaments, I thought he could go deep again at Wimbledon this year.I will wait to see how his form is, in 2023, like you I am holding hope.
It can't be all down to Covid, or even injuries. He's got probably the hugest forehand in tennis, right now. A lethal game, but has he got the right coach? He's floundering, a bit, and I hope 2023 is a year that brings him back to his best game. Same for Sinner, to call out the Italians.
 

MargaretMcAleer

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It can't be all down to Covid, or even injuries. He's got probably the hugest forehand in tennis, right now. A lethal game, but has he got the right coach? He's floundering, a bit, and I hope 2023 is a year that brings him back to his best game. Same for Sinner, to call out the Italians.
If you look at Matteo's results after COVID, he has not been the same player to me? I am not using this as an excuse just my observations in regards to Sinner he has had injuries this year at the wrong times and yes he did have COVID, which can affect you and how you recover, I am not making excuses just pointing out the obvious for both players.
 

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Alcaraz is young. (More on this below.) Agreed that the two to beat are still Rafa and Novak, however long-in-the-tooth. This is why some, (say, on the Paris thread,) complain about easy competition in draws. (Also, hard, because they are partisans.) But it comes partly down to who really IS competition for them? Mostly, each other. They are, what should I say, thrice in a lifetime comets that crossed our sky, and happened to come at basically the same time, with Roger. If we keep looking for the Roger/Rafa/Novak, we will be in for a world of hurt, if you ask me. They dominate less in the Masters because they care less, right? Could be Bo3, but I really think it's about priorities.
I think a bit of caring less, but also best of three is more volatile. I think the fact is that the gap between Novak and Nadal and everyone else has narrowed significantly, and Masters are where it shows up first.
"Kuerten to Nadal" spectrum? When was that ever a spectrum? Kuerten won 3 x Majors, but all at RG. That does not seem to be Charly's path. Maybe you mean Murray or Wawrinka, in that 3 may be the cap? Not sure where Kuerten comes in. Do clarify.
I somewhat picked two names out of a hat, but Kuerten is meant as a stand-in as a "near great" player - someone who at least approached greatness, but it was short lived and limited. He also was good at a young age, like Alcaraz. I suppose Courier would have worked, too. Meaning, they're at the lowest end of the "greatness spectrum" - near/lesser greaters, but not true ATGs. Alcaraz seems a lock to at least be that level - and likely much more.
I do agree that he rather fell into the #1, and I don't expect him to hold it that long. (Without looking at the points.) I agree that staying in the top 3-5 for the next while would show that he's in it. But different eras make it easier/more difficult for the #1 to shift. I think we're about to enter another time when it won't be that hard. You say it took Pete until nearly 22 to become dominant. Same as Roger. Novak won a Major at 20, but had a 3-year gap until the next. Rafa was our last great teenager, but it took him 5 Majors to get to #1. It depends on the times you play in, in a lot of ways. I think Alcaraz playing in what will be a transitional phase. He'll likely nip in and out of #1, stay for a time, and we'll see how many Majors he wins.

Think of when Safin had his brief moment at #1 in 2000. It looked he could be the next guy, but then he slipped and Hewitt jumped in. But in 2000-01, there was this 18-19 year old named Roger Federer who looked like he'd be good, but no one thought he'd take over the tour a few years later. Maybe Alcaraz is Safin in 2000 or Hewitt in 2001...and the next Roger is someone currently age 17-19 that we just don't know yet, or expect to be great?

I'm not trying to under-sell Alcaraz, and certainly not predict that there's another Roger out there right now, just that you never know how things will unfold or who will emerge. I mean, Tsitsipas could find God and win five Slams over the next three years. I doubt it, but you just never know.
Rafa had Roger in front of him. When Novak and Rafa are gone, who will Carlos have in front of him? Who has ever had to win 5 Majors to get to #1? This is not going to happen to Alcaraz. Unless he has a big sink, or injury, he's going to be the top of his pack, one has to think.
Yup. That goes back to my question about Next Gen's "Biggish Three" - and whether they can take it up a notch.
Fair enough. He's got a great team behind him, but he IS 19.

All good mentions, and agreed.

All good points, and I guess we have to hope that Rune stops being such a d*ck.
Well, he is just 19. 19 year olds are dumbasses.
Not forgetting Medvedev. I still think he has the makings of multiple Slam winner. He'd be my pick for YEC, right now, based on the way he looks on indoor-hards.
Yeah, it's a good pick.
No. I think injury and otherwise distraction will do him in.
Sascha is irritating, but I do hope he wins a Slam or two - he's just too good not to. Who knows, maybe he'll do a Goran.
LOL at the "Tsonga and Berdych" of the current era. I'm getting the feeling they might be.
It would be a sad fate for them. They're better players, and also playing in a weaker era, but history just hasn't had any players do what they've done--or at least Sascha--without a Slam or two eventually resulting from it. And of course Tsitsipas is still the age that Lendl was when he won his first Slam.
I'm inclined to "sell" on Rublev. I'm still holding out a lot of hope for Berrettini, and some for Tiafoe.
I don't see any of those three ever winning a Slam, but think all are good Masters candidates.

Hoping for that, in terms of both.

Lost Gen is cooked, and I don't put Thiem in that group. That is my prediction...also, not a brave one.
Yeah, I agree, they're cooked.
 
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Moxie

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I think a bit of caring less, but also best of three is more volatile. I think the fact is that the gap between Novak and Nadal and everyone else has narrowed significantly, and Masters are where it shows up first.
I don't think you're wrong. A bit of both. But, sure, MS is where it would show up first.
I somewhat picked two names out of a hat, but Kuerten is meant as a stand-in as a "near great" player - someone who at least approached greatness, but it was short lived and limited. He also was good at a young age, like Alcaraz. I suppose Courier would have worked, too. Meaning, they're at the lowest end of the "greatness spectrum" - near/lesser greaters, but not true ATGs. Alcaraz seems a lock to at least be that level - and likely much more.
It's funny that your next go-to was Courier. Both were more clay-courters, which Alcaraz is not. If wins up to 3 Majors, which I think is what you're saying, he's more like a Murray or Wawrinka. Anyway, given the changing-of-the-guard, and his talent, I think he's good for more than 3. Barring injury or serious collapse. And I don't expect collapse.
Think of when Safin had his brief moment at #1 in 2000. It looked he could be the next guy, but then he slipped and Hewitt jumped in. But in 2000-01, there was this 18-19 year old named Roger Federer who looked like he'd be good, but no one thought he'd take over the tour a few years later. Maybe Alcaraz is Safin in 2000 or Hewitt in 2001...and the next Roger is someone currently age 17-19 that we just don't know yet, or expect to be great?

I'm not trying to under-sell Alcaraz, and certainly not predict that there's another Roger out there right now, just that you never know how things will unfold or who will emerge. I mean, Tsitsipas could find God and win five Slams over the next three years. I doubt it, but you just never know.
Yes, but point is, there isn't likely a "Roger" looming, and Carlos has definitely got a better head that Safin. I believe you that you're not trying to under-sell Alcaraz. And of course, anything can happen. But we haven't had such a transcendent teenager since Rafa. Quite frankly, if Alcaraz were 22, we'd still say we just saw the next supernova. I think Medvedev has a lot in him, and could win multiple slams, but he's not Alcaraz. And, sure, Tsitsipas might turn into a different player and win 5 Majors, but also monkeys might fly out of my butt, as Madonna once famously said on SNL. You can game any possibility, but you're not playing the odds. The odds are that Alcaraz is here to stay. I can't tell you how many Majors he's going to win, but I can see that the path will be somewhat clear, once Rafa and Novak hang 'em up. Maybe it's 3, with everyone just getting their share for a while. This remains to be seen.
Sascha is irritating, but I do hope he wins a Slam or two - he's just too good not to. Who knows, maybe he'll do a Goran.
I hope he doesn't.
It would be a sad fate for them. They're better players, and also playing in a weaker era, but history just hasn't had any players do what they've done--or at least Sascha--without a Slam or two eventually resulting from it. And of course Tsitsipas is still the age that Lendl was when he won his first Slam.
Both have been in a Major final and up 2 sets to love, then lost. And they both act like entitled candy-asses. If they do not do what it takes to win a Major, I will have no sympathy, and I won't say it's a sad fate.
I don't see any of those three ever winning a Slam, but think all are good Masters candidates.
You're very likely right on Rublev, Berrettini and Tiafoe, but I still give better edge to Matteo.
 
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MargaretMcAleer

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One of the players that has failed to impress me all year has been The Young Greek, he has hired The Poo to help his serve, as yet that has not improved overall, to me his mentality has let him down time and time again?
Question is will he improve in 2023, quite frankly going on his current game and mental strength I fear not, though I will put my hand up if he does.

Another player is Sasha, who is still having trouble with his foot, ( he has edema in his foot ) last I read he was thinking of having surgery to relieve the pressure of edema in his foot. Impressed with him at RG, sad to see how it ended with a injury that has cost him the rest of the year.Another player I will hold my breath to see in 2023 if he can win his 1st GS title.
 

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One of the players that has failed to impress me all year has been The Young Greek, he has hired The Poo to help his serve, as yet that has not improved overall, to me his mentality has let him down time and time again?
Question is will he improve in 2023, quite frankly going on his current game and mental strength I fear not, though I will put my hand up if he does.

Another player is Sasha, who is still having trouble with his foot, ( he has edema in his foot ) last I read he was thinking of having surgery to relieve the pressure of edema in his foot. Impressed with him at RG, sad to see how it ended with a injury that has cost him the rest of the year.Another player I will hold my breath to see in 2023 if he can win his 1st GS title.
These two, I’ve written off already. In fairness, I wrote zverev off before his injury. Write off, as in, won’t win slams. Too bimbo-ish, the pair of them. Mental airheads. I’d be happy to be proven wrong by Zverev, but not ecstatic. He’s not an interesting player, stylistically. Tsitsipas has a more beautiful game but he’s the type of fella brings out violent urges in peaceful, harmony loving blokes like me.

So, down with the pair of ‘em!
 

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These two, I’ve written off already. In fairness, I wrote zverev off before his injury. Write off, as in, won’t win slams. Too bimbo-ish, the pair of them. Mental airheads. I’d be happy to be proven wrong by Zverev, but not ecstatic. He’s not an interesting player, stylistically. Tsitsipas has a more beautiful game but he’s the type of fella brings out violent urges in peaceful, harmony loving blokes like me.

So, down with the pair of ‘em!
Great characterization of the two.

Food for thought:

Most GOAT Points by Slamless Players:
1. David Ferrer 124
2. Tom Okker 123
3. Alexander Zverev 111
4. Tomas Berdych 84
5. Brian Gottfried 80

Tsitsipas is down the list a bit with 65 GP, tied with Alex Corretja.
 
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Kieran

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Great characterization of the two.

Food for thought:

Most GOAT Points by Slamless Players:
1. David Ferrer 124
2. Tom Okker 123
3. Alexander Zverev 111
4. Tomas Berdych 84
5. Brian Gottfried 80

Tsitsipas is down the list a bit with 65 GP, tied with Alex Corretja.
I’m feeling old. I remember Okker and Gottfried. Okker was known as the fittest man in tennis, and a very gifted shotmaker. Brian Gottfried had a lovely head of hair…
 

El Dude

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Here's something to keep in mind for 2023: If Rafa wins the US Open, he'll be the oldest Slam champion in the Open Era at 37 years, and about 3 months. Ken Rosewall was 37 and just under 2 months when he won the 1971 Australian Open.

Novak's first Slam at an older age than Rosewall will be the 2024 US Open, I believe.
 

Moxie

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Here's something to keep in mind for 2023: If Rafa wins the US Open, he'll be the oldest Slam champion in the Open Era at 37 years, and about 3 months. Ken Rosewall was 37 and just under 2 months when he won the 1971 Australian Open.

Novak's first Slam at an older age than Rosewall will be the 2024 US Open, I believe.
He actually became the oldest winner of the French Open this year, passing Andrés Gimeno, who was the oldest first time Slam winner at 34. Gimeno won Roland Garros in 1972.
 
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Fiero425

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Here's something to keep in mind for 2023: If Rafa wins the US Open, he'll be the oldest Slam champion in the Open Era at 37 years, and about 3 months. Ken Rosewall was 37 and just under 2 months when he won the 1971 Australian Open.

Novak's first Slam at an older age than Rosewall will be the 2024 US Open, I believe.

Like winning this past YEC/WTF, it only matters about being the oldest champion if it happens! It doesn't mean much; but gives bragging rights! IMO, nothing was more impressive than Novak's season in 2021, being just one match from a CYGS at 34! I'd like Nadal or Federer to have done that! Stealing 1 major is one thing, but to take all 4, now that would be monumental either way; now or later! :thinking-face: :astonished-face::face-with-hand-over-mouth::face-with-tears-of-joy:
 

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Like winning this past YEC/WTF, it only matters about being the oldest champion if it happens! It doesn't mean much; but gives bragging rights! IMO, nothing was more impressive than Novak's season in 2021, being just one match from a CYGS at 34! I'd like Nadal or Federer to have done that! Stealing 1 major is one thing, but to take all 4, now that would be monumental either way; now or later! :thinking-face: :astonished-face::face-with-hand-over-mouth::face-with-tears-of-joy:

Slam titles: 22-21-20 :bye:

Slam h2h: 11-7 & 10-4 :bye:
 
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nehmeth

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Projections for next year.

2023 will be Federless. Novak will defend the Australian Open he was unable to this year. We’ll see how Nadal builds momentum/confidence in the tournaments up to the French. Older and balder, he’s still the guy to beat at the FO. Tsitsipas will have his parents banned and fire worthless Philopussis. He will hire Ivan Lendl and learn how to flatten out his shots and actually win big tournaments. Medvedev will get hair plugs as his combover isn’t working anymore. He will continue to lose his bowels in the big moments. Zverev may or may not return this year. That was a horrible injury. Alcatraz will learn what it’s like to play with a target on his back and play under pressure. Huge future ahead for him. Rune has a nice game… hits a clean ball. His mother scares the hell out of me. If he can stay free from injury (he’s kind of light boned), I think he can reach top 5. Ruud… unparalleled work ethic cannot offset the lack of athleticism. He remains in the top ten, but not as high as he ended this year.