Cincinnati Masters 2025, Ohio, US - ATP Masters 1000
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MargaretMcAleer
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Well Meddy in any GS especially in hot humid conditions like the AO you have to be able to manage your energy?
My main point with Meddy he lost previous matches at the AO that year, going 5 sets, where he should have won in 3?
Getting to a business end of any GS tournament you have to physically able to play 5 sets, in any conditions
Sinner eared his GS title.
MargaretMcAleer
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Well Carlos didnt have much compeittion did he Sinner was unwell? Carlos has dips and lost his focus at Cinncy, and I was fairly confident Sinner would win, as he played well all tournament and the faster conditions suit his play.
MargaretMcAleer
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Sinner said
Last night he didnt feel well at all, he thought he might improve for the final, it got worse in the match and he is sorry he had to retire, but he could not go on in the match
Last night he didnt feel well at all, he thought he might improve for the final, it got worse in the match and he is sorry he had to retire, but he could not go on in the match
Kieran
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As far as I know, nobody has ever won 4 five set matches to win a slam. Nobody is taking anything away from your pet, but to say that Medvedev lost because focus is inaccurate. He was knackered…
Moxie
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I don't know where you got that, but you must not have watched what little there was to see. It was clear there was something wrong, like illness, not injury. And when he saw the trainer, he also got the doctor. No one looked his elbow. See my post after the 3rd game. It was pretty obvious he felt unwell.
Moxie
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When are you going to get over that Dimitrov lost that match due to injury? You keep looking for a way to prove that Sinner would have lost that match, anyway, which is not provable. True, Sinner doesn't (yet) have a great 5th set win record, but neither does Dimitrov, with a much larger sample size. Also, pretty poor record against top 10 players. And he's a terrific folder, in the long run. Yes, it definitely looked like Sinner was going down that day, but if Sinner had gotten him to a 5th, I wouldn't have given you much for Dimitrov's chances. There are reasons he hasn't had a better career, in spite of the talent, and a lot of it has to do with lack of grit.
MargaretMcAleer
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BTW Sinner is not my pet okay thanks
You missed my point I was talking up to the matches before the final where Meddy should have won in 3 sets, and focus lost him those matches where he should have won in 3 sets
Getting to the business end of a tournament you have to be 100% physically ready in any conditions, maybe if he had won those matches in 3 sets before the final he would have had more energy
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MargaretMcAleer
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I posted what Sinner said
He felt unwell last night though he thought he would feel better for todays final , it got worse and said he was sorry but he could not play on
MargaretMcAleer
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Actually AP was talking to a mutal friend of mine in that match with Dimitrov and said ' you wait he wont last in a 5 set match against Sinner if he goes that far
I miss AP!
Kieran
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No you can’t have been saying that. In two of those matches he lost the first two sets, and in the other he lost the second set, so winning them all in 3 sets wasn’t an option.
Don’t worry about it…
MargaretMcAleer
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If you watched those 2 matches he lost his focus, the reason why it went longer than it should have
No I wont worry about it thanks
MargaretMcAleer
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You know if Alcaraz makes , say, the finals of the US Open, losing to Sinner AND wins a couple more Masters he could conceivably still be the YE # 1 even if Sinner has won three Majors to his one.
Kieran
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Ah yes, that’s what I meant. I tend to think the player who did best in the slams is the number one for that year anyway. But Carlos has as good a chance as any to win the USO, so hopefully he rubberstamps his position there.
And yeah, I know, if he beats Jannik in the final, Sinner will have had the best season in the slams..
Fiero425
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Well duh! Been ranting about the rankings & how its failed the 2 Tours since the days of the "paper computer" of the WTA! It took a couple decades before they found Evonne Goolagong should have had at least 2 weeks at #1 back in the 70's! She joins the rest of the Top Women, but in my head, she's head & shoulders above them all w/ her athletic grace on the court! Her play would probably make me weep after watching decades of this travesty we call a "Game of Kings!"
Sinner does have a nice ATP Pt. lead, even w/ his drug suspension! I probably won't have the same outrage if Alcaraz runs him down like Murray did to Djokovic back in 2016! The whole episode is just a joke; esp. w/ how differently players are treated / punished when caught in a violation! I hadn't thought about it until TCC pointed it out, but this is a strange feeling w/ Sincaraz seamlessly taking over the tour w/ consistency & effortlessness! They've won the last 8 majors which incudes the ATP Final! Carlos has more talent, but Jannik maximizes his which I believe will break 1st between the 2! It's gonna be a "physical" & "mental" thing for both as they try to keep up w/ obligations on & off the tour!
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The ATP runs the men’s professional tour, so I have absolutely no problem that their premiere events, The 1000 Masters, could tip the scales per points accumulated for the YE No. 1.
Yes the Majors are the most prestigious & have tradition, and they are what counts the most as far as a player’s career legacy but the tour needs to function independently from them. The 250’s, 500’s & 1000’s are what feeds the rank & file.
Therefore a player who manages well playing the tours sponsored events , accumulating points, if he does just enough to gain # 1 without winning the most Majors, IMO that’s just how the cookie crumbles.
Yes the Majors are the most prestigious & have tradition, and they are what counts the most as far as a player’s career legacy but the tour needs to function independently from them. The 250’s, 500’s & 1000’s are what feeds the rank & file.
Therefore a player who manages well playing the tours sponsored events , accumulating points, if he does just enough to gain # 1 without winning the most Majors, IMO that’s just how the cookie crumbles.
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El Dude
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The ATP year-end number measures the most ATP pionts for the year, and thus is more quantitative than qualitative. I'm guessing that the two match up 90% of the time, so it isn't bad. And even when they don't match up (that is, the best player in terms of quality isn't year-end #1), it usually isn't egregious.
In baseball terms, ATP rankings are more like hits or total bases rather than batting average or slugging percentage.
That said, I could see having bonuses or higher point totals for Slam titles than the current system. While I think the point system is pretty good at depicting relative difficulty of winning different tournaments, it does seem odd that a Grand Slam is "only" worth two Masters. I kind of think 2500 points would be better, so 2.5 Masters worth. Or maybe bonus points for things like multiple SlamsBut that's entirely subjective.
Either way, the 1990 system is a lot better than the 1973-89 system, imo, which averaged out title results in a weighted manner. So you have John McEnroe being year #1 in 1982, when both Connors and Lendl had better years. That's one of the worst, imo.
On the other hand, while I think Roger was the best player in 2017, winning more big titles in far fewer events than Rafa, i don't have a problem with Rafa being #1. Basically the difference comes down to him playing one more Slam and reaching the Final. He deserves credit for that, even if Roger's win% was significantly higher.
In baseball terms, ATP rankings are more like hits or total bases rather than batting average or slugging percentage.
That said, I could see having bonuses or higher point totals for Slam titles than the current system. While I think the point system is pretty good at depicting relative difficulty of winning different tournaments, it does seem odd that a Grand Slam is "only" worth two Masters. I kind of think 2500 points would be better, so 2.5 Masters worth. Or maybe bonus points for things like multiple SlamsBut that's entirely subjective.
Either way, the 1990 system is a lot better than the 1973-89 system, imo, which averaged out title results in a weighted manner. So you have John McEnroe being year #1 in 1982, when both Connors and Lendl had better years. That's one of the worst, imo.
On the other hand, while I think Roger was the best player in 2017, winning more big titles in far fewer events than Rafa, i don't have a problem with Rafa being #1. Basically the difference comes down to him playing one more Slam and reaching the Final. He deserves credit for that, even if Roger's win% was significantly higher.
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El Dude
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Another alternate would be reducing the number of tournaments that count in the rankings from 20 to 15, in terms of year-end points. Basically, 4 Slams, TF (if applicable), 8 mandatory Masters, and two or three lower tournaments. Right now rankings can be determined by results at 500s and 250s, which is what happened in 2016 when Andy Murray won a bunch of 500s in the second half, helping him catch Novak (and then losing to Novak in the TF didn't help Novak's case).
As you mentioned overall Rafa had a better Slam record than Roger, making 3 finals & winning two. Roger won 2 Slams in 2 finals. Rafa won the FO & USO & the finals of the AO.
So if Slams are the ultimate arbitrator , quality wise Rafa had the better year thus his #1.ye
Winning more tournaments with fewer entries isn’t a criteria for ye IMO. Alcaraz may very will be YE #1 even if Sinner’s win% is significantly higher To denigrate supporting the tour by playing in more events as “ quantitative” versus “ qualitive” is a debatable point.
As to the “oddness “ of a Major only worth 2 Masters, it isn’t the ATP’s responsibility to undermine their own events just to pump up the Majors. The Majors in their own way ( see Pandemic era) have demonstrated they could care less of the tour events.
If a player wins all the Slams and only plays a handful of ATP tourneys it certainly doesn’t help the tour IMO.
