2022 Australian Open Men’s Final: Rafael Nadal vs. Daniil Medvedev

[Moxie]

Over the years there are players I just never cared for from the beginning! Sometimes it had to do with their ego/arrogance, a bad attitude/sportsmanship, or more fame than actually warranted! It was hard to like/love players like Connors, McEnroe, Agassi (image is everything), Becker (hard to believe since I have this thing for redheads), Nadal, & now Medvedev (ugly game)!

Everyone is allowed to like who they like for their own reasons. And dislike who they dislike for same. But pretending they are terrible at the game just because you don't like them shows ignorance of the game, and I know you are not ignorant of the game. I don't like Novak, at all, and I like him increasingly less all the time. But I don't pretend he's not a great tennis player.

 

[Fiero425]

Everyone is allowed to like who they like for their own reasons. And dislike who they dislike for same. But pretending they are terrible at the game just because you don't like them shows ignorance of the game, and I know you are not ignorant of the game. I don't like Novak, at all, and I like him increasingly less all the time. But I don't pretend he's not a great tennis player.

Who said Nadal isn't a great player? I just have said the same thing over and over again, his results are limited in comparison to Fedovic! Their resumes are a lot more impressive and spread out while Nadal's real claim to fame is on his clay performances! He still is short several titles that Fedovic have multiple championships like the YEC! Nadal's nowhere near a Golden Masters when Novak is a double winner! I can go on, but you've heard it before!

 

[Nadalfan2013]

Who said Nadal isn't a great player? I just have said the same thing over and over again, his results are limited in comparison to Fedovic! Their resumes are a lot more impressive and spread out while Nadal's real claim to fame is on his clay performances! He still is short several titles that Fedovic have multiple championships like the YEC! Nadal's nowhere near a Golden Masters when Novak is a double winner! I can go on, but you've heard it before!

The more you disrespect Nadal the more he wins.

 

[Fiero425]

The more you disrespect Nadal the more he wins.

Yeah, cheer him on while Novak isn't around for now! Seems like a reoccurring theme for Fedal! Maybe Roger will sneak another 250 or 500!

 

[Moxie]

Who said Nadal isn't a great player? I just have said the same thing over and over again, his results are limited in comparison to Fedovic! Their resumes are a lot more impressive and spread out while Nadal's real claim to fame is on his clay performances! He still is short several titles that Fedovic have multiple championships like the YEC! Nadal's nowhere near a Golden Masters when Novak is a double winner! I can go on, but you've heard it before!

You just said, his "limited" results which implies you think he isn't a really great player. But are they really "limited?" You compare him poorly to "Fedovic," just now, right after you called Roger an "also-ran," compared to Rafa and Novak. Perhaps we should go back to your admission of "hypocrisy, at times."

Perhaps you missed this post from @MargaretMcAleer, as it was on the Rafa fans thread:

3 Hard Court titles to start 2022 makes Rafa Nadal the second Open Era man in the 25/25 club,25 titles on both hard and clay.

Lendl 32 hard, 28 clay
Nadal 25 hard, 62 clay.

How "limited" is that? We can do endless loops around who has what, but you can't call Nadal "limited." Even in comparison to Novak and Roger, (even though you've downgraded Roger.) They have different best and first and mosts, which we can debate, but you do negate Nadal all the time, and even above, so stop acting like you've never said he wasn't a great player. You say it all the time. And by the measure that most count on top, Rafa has the most Majors. For the moment, but you don't get there by being short in any department.

 

[rafanoy1992]

I do not want to get into this debate that much, but the one thing that "irks" me the most about people discrediting Nadal's accomplishments is when they say, "Nadal's resume is not balanced or spectacular compared to Federer/Djokovic is because most of his accomplishments are on Clay." I never understood on why the naysayers are using Nadal's best surface to discredit his overall body of work. They do not do that when Federer was dominating on Grass or when Djokovic was winning A LOT of titles on HC.

 

[Moxie]

Yeah, cheer him on while Novak isn't around for now! Seems like a reoccurring theme for Fedal! Maybe Roger will sneak another 250 or 500!

That's a cheap comment. It's Novak's choice that he can't post. But let's be clear about how 2022 would have gone for Nadal, with or without Novak:

Melbourne: Novak couldn't play, but often doesn't play a tune-up. Was he scheduled to play Melbourne? Probably not, so Rafa would have won it anyway.
Acapulco: Novak has only played Acapulco once, and he didn't play it this year. Nadal won it, so that wouldn't have changed.

Australian Open: It is not just rich, it's unreasonable to "assume" that Rafa wouldn't have won this AO had Novak played. Given his lack of preparation, the stress of the politics, and the crowd animosity against him, you can't just assume that Novak would have won all of those 7 matches he didn't play, and especially because he would have met Medvedev in the final, the guy who owned him in the just-previous USO final.

As to pretending that Fedal are making hay in the absence of Novak, that is one I can kick back at you. Novak had very little to say to Roger and Rafa in the years when they were a dominating rivalry. As I often get reminded by Novak fans, he's only 11 months younger than Rafa...so what took him so long? Oh, it took a bit of years and milage on his rivals to give him some running room. And when they were really having fallow times, he hoovered up a lot of Majors, including a Nole Slam. So don't act all put-upon now, as a Novak fan. FFS, Rafa is 35 and Roger is 40. Sure, Rafa played great, and took advantage of his opportunity in Melbourne, but honestly, I have a hard time imagining Novak would even have made it to his SF v Nadal, given the circumstances. You can't claim he would have.

 

[Moxie]

I do not want to get into this debate that much, but the one thing that "irks" me the most about people discrediting Nadal's accomplishments is when they say, "Nadal's resume is not balanced or spectacular compared to Federer/Djokovic is because most of his accomplishments are on Clay." I never understood on why the naysayers are using Nadal's best surface to discredit his overall body of work. They do not do that when Federer was dominating on Grass or when Djokovic was winning A LOT of titles on HC.

100%! And even the very fair Paul Annacone, last night, felt he still had to say that people are just wrong to still consider Nadal mainly a clay-courter, and this, 13 years after he won his first AO, and nearly 14 since he won his first Wimbledon. It is galling.

There is a clay prejudice in general, in tennis. We know and understand that 60% of the calendar is played on HC, but the veneration for grass is all about the vestigial and anglo-centric, given that it is less than 10% of the calendar. Clay makes up more than 30% of the season, and yet, it's looked down upon, and Rafa is still a "specialist." Why no asterisk on Roger and Novak's wins at Wimbledon? Why so much less worry that they have so few wins at Roland Garros? Rafa had 2 Wimbledons LONG before Novak finally managed 2 at RG, or even his first. And Roger will never got 2 at RG. It's blatant bias.

If you take off Roland Garros, Rafa would be tied with Lendl, Connors, Rosewall, Agassi and Fred Perry at 8 majors, which was career for them. Except, on top of that, he has 13 wins at the French Open. More wins at a single major by any tennis player (male or female,) by a long stretch. How can this be a negative? It's the crowning accomplishment of anyone's career, and a record that will stand for a long time, or perhaps, ever. If it were Roger with 13 wins at Wimbledon, I do not believe the conversation would be the same.

 

[Fiero425]

I guess I'm gonna have to work for this since some people ignore what I'm saying when I use the word "limited!" I even put down NO YEC's under Nadal's name! No acquiescence or even an acknowledgement! Why can't people understand that? How can you be the absolute GOAT when lacking key championships which can only add to accomplishments? Novak has won every top Major event of the ATP at least twice; quite a few have 4, 5, or a 6 under his name! What's so hard to understand? Checking now......

Miami Masters: Fedovic 10 titles, Nadal 0
Paris Masters: Fedovic 7 titles, Nadal 0 (Fed just has 1)
YEC's: Fedovic 11 titles, Nadal 0

Finals overall: Fedovic 92 each, Nadal 84 (w/ Olympics)

A career isn't over if you don't win all major events, but if you want to be the GOAT that's my new standard! "Get busy Rafa! Time is running out!"

 

[Nadalfan2013]

I guess I'm gonna have to work for this since some people ignore what I'm saying when I use the word "limited!" I even put down NO YEC's under Nadal's name! No acquiescence or even an acknowledgement! Why can't people understand that? How can you be the absolute GOAT when lacking key championships which can only add to accomplishments? Novak has won every top Major event of the ATP at least twice; quite a few have 4, 5, or a 6 under his name! What's so hard to understand? Checking now......

Miami Masters: Fedovic 10 titles, Nadal 0
Paris Masters: Fedovic 7 titles, Nadal 0 (Fed just has 1)
YEC's: Fedovic 11 titles, Nadal 0

Finals overall: Fedovic 92 each, Nadal 84 (w/ Olympics)

A career isn't over if you don't win all major events, but if you want to be the GOAT that's my new standard! "Get busy Rafa! Time is running out!"

Djokovic would trade all his YEC for 1 Olympics gold. Like I said before Nadal has the two things that Djokovic wants the most which is the slam record and the Olympics gold. Also there is no such thing as Fedovic.

 

[Jelenafan]

I guess I'm gonna have to work for this since some people ignore what I'm saying when I use the word "limited!" I even put down NO YEC's under Nadal's name! No acquiescence or even an acknowledgement! Why can't people understand that? How can you be the absolute GOAT when lacking key championships which can only add to accomplishments? Novak has won every top Major event of the ATP at least twice; quite a few have 4, 5, or a 6 under his name! What's so hard to understand? Checking now......

Miami Masters: Fedovic 10 titles, Nadal 0
Paris Masters: Fedovic 7 titles, Nadal 0 (Fed just has 1)
YEC's: Fedovic 11 titles, Nadal 0

Finals overall: Fedovic 92 each, Nadal 84 (w/ Olympics)

A career isn't over if you don't win all major events, but if you want to be the GOAT that's my new standard! "Get busy Rafa! Time is running out!"

21 > 20

 

[Fiero425]

Djokovic would trade all his YEC's for 1 Olympic Gold. Like I said before Nadal has the two things that Djokovic wants the most which is the Slam record and the Olympics Gold. Also there is no such thing as Fedovic.

Maybe! Over the years the bar has moved several times! I'm sure some of us agreed Nole would give up a few AO's to get 1 FO yrs ago! How times have changed after winning his 2nd last yr.! As for Fedovic, they set themselves up and apart from Rafa in the record-books with a more diverse resume! Roger and Nole won 3 Slams in a season 3 times; Rafa once! The YEC is hard to overlook where the likes of Davydenko & Dimitrov are on the Cup with a conspicuous omission of an ATG! Those are glaring gaps in his resume! All 3 have them!

Borg's was the USO! For Laver it was the WCT Chp.! Now it's all about the MAJORS! Since it's so close, what else can be done but to shred their records down to minutia? I'm looking at Masters, YEC's, & weeks at #1! Rafa winning 13 at one event eclipsed about all the greats in Paris alone! My animus might have been residual feelings after failed attempts by Roger & Novak losing those FO finals! They just wanted 1 out of all those moments 10-15 years ago! WOW! There will be obvious opposing views, but I'm well documented on here and elsewhere!

 

[Nadalfan2013]

Maybe! Over the years the bar has moved several times! I'm sure some of us agreed Nole would give up a few AO's to get 1 FO yrs ago! How times have changed after winning his 2nd last yr.! As for Fedovic, they set themselves up and apart from Rafa in the record-books with a more diverse resume! Roger and Nole won 3 Slams in a season 3 times; Rafa once! The YEC is hard to overlook where the likes of Davydenko & Dimitrov are on the Cup with a conspicuous omission of an ATG! Those are glaring gaps in his resume! All 3 have them!

Borg's was the USO! For Laver it was the WCT Chp.! Now it's all about the MAJORS! Since it's so close, what else can be done but to shred their records down to minutia? I'm looking at Masters, YEC's, & weeks at #1! Rafa winning 13 at one event eclipsed about all the greats in Paris alone! My animus might have been residual feelings after failed attempts by Roger & Novak losing those FO finals! They just wanted 1 out of all those moments 10-15 years ago! WOW! There will be obvious opposing views, but I'm well documented on here and elsewhere!

Bro stop spamming the forum with the same thing. Nadal would rather have another RG title (even if he already has 100) than a first WTF. Nobody cares about WTF, it's nice to have but not a big deal. It's just like a Masters 1000 type of title at this point far behind a slam or the Olympics. Move on and stop embarrassing yourself.

And yes NOW it's about the majors and Olympics. In the Big 3 era they (Fedalovic + Murray) have all said that the slams and the Olympics are the ultimate goal. So when we compare the Big 3 then Nadal comes out on top!

 

[Moxie]

I guess I'm gonna have to work for this since some people ignore what I'm saying when I use the word "limited!" I even put down NO YEC's under Nadal's name! No acquiescence or even an acknowledgement! Why can't people understand that? How can you be the absolute GOAT when lacking key championships which can only add to accomplishments? Novak has won every top Major event of the ATP at least twice; quite a few have 4, 5, or a 6 under his name! What's so hard to understand? Checking now......

Miami Masters: Fedovic 10 titles, Nadal 0
Paris Masters: Fedovic 7 titles, Nadal 0 (Fed just has 1)
YEC's: Fedovic 11 titles, Nadal 0

Finals overall: Fedovic 92 each, Nadal 84 (w/ Olympics)

A career isn't over if you don't win all major events, but if you want to be the GOAT that's my new standard! "Get busy Rafa! Time is running out!"

Yes, you should work for it. You have a narrow view of Nadal. Everyone knows about him not having the YEC. I think I said there are a lot of ways to nut this out, in terms of accomplishments. I'm not sure what your cherry-picking of Miami, Bercy and YEC means, actually. And finals OVERALL, because finals at Majors, Rafa caps them both.

Major Finals: Fedovic 20 W in 11 Finals, Nadal is 21 W in 8 finals.

See how that works? Which is more important? Some lesser finals, or finals at Majors. Since you bring up records in finals.

None of their careers are over. There is time to debate this, down the road, and I've already told you I don't believe in one GOAT, or even GOAT of this era. Let's see how it plays out.

 

[rafanoy1992]

Yes, you should work for it. You have a narrow view of Nadal. Everyone knows about him not having the YEC. I think I said there are a lot of ways to nut this out, in terms of accomplishments. I'm not sure what your cherry-picking of Miami, Bercy and YEC means, actually. And finals OVERALL, because finals at Majors, Rafa caps them both.

Major Finals: Fedovic 20 W in 11 Finals, Nadal is 21 W in 8 finals.

See how that works? Which is more important? Some lesser finals, or finals at Majors. Since you bring up records in finals.

None of their careers are over. There is time to debate this, down the road, and I've already told you I don't believe in one GOAT, or even GOAT of this era. Let's see how it plays out.

I do one better for you, Moxie

Most Slams titles in Men’s History:

1. Nadal - 21 slams
2. Federer - 20 slams
2. Djokovic - 20 slams

Most Masters 1000 titles in Men’s History:
1. Djokovic - 38
2. Nadal - 37
3. Federer - 28

Most ATP 500 titles in Men’s History:
1. Federer - 24
2. Nadal - 23
3. Djokovic - 14

Basically, other than YEC, Nadal is in the Top 2 in the three highest titles categories of ATP.

And if Nadal stays healthy, he can be in the Top 1 in ALL three categories THIS YEAR alone!

Not too shabby, no?

 

[Nadalfan2013]

I do one better for you, Moxie

Most Slams titles in Men’s History:

1. Nadal - 21 slams
2. Federer - 20 slams
2. Djokovic - 20 slams

Most Masters 1000 titles in Men’s History:
1. Djokovic - 38
2. Nadal - 37
3. Federer - 28

Most ATP 500 titles in Men’s History:
1. Federer - 24
2. Nadal - 23
3. Djokovic - 14

Basically, other than YEC, Nadal is in the Top 2 in the three highest titles categories of ATP.

And if Nadal stays healthy, he can be in the Top 1 in ALL three categories THIS YEAR alone!

Not too shabby, no?

Add Nadal's bigger success at the Olympics and Davis Cup and there's no denying that he's ahead of Fedovic.

 

[Jelenafan]

Add Nadal's bigger success at the Olympics and Davis Cup and there's no denying that he's ahead of Fedovic.

5 Davis Cups, most in the Open Era.

 

[the AntiPusher]

I rewatch the match again. The second turning point of the match when Daniil's service game was 2-1 2-2 0-40 . The game went on for about 8 mins. Rafa broke Daniil's serve and it really bother him. During the change over he asked the chair umpire to step up his announcements to the crowd to be quiet during a player's service. Daniil said the fans needed to be constantly reminded because they're idiots. My take if you don't respect the fans, there going to be little chance they are going to respond with respect to that player.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Maybe! Over the years the bar has moved several times! I'm sure some of us agreed Nole would give up a few AO's to get 1 FO yrs ago! How times have changed after winning his 2nd last yr.! As for Fedovic, they set themselves up and apart from Rafa in the record-books with a more diverse resume! Roger and Nole won 3 Slams in a season 3 times; Rafa once! The YEC is hard to overlook where the likes of Davydenko & Dimitrov are on the Cup with a conspicuous omission of an ATG! Those are glaring gaps in his resume! All 3 have them!

Borg's was the USO! For Laver it was the WCT Chp.! Now it's all about the MAJORS! Since it's so close, what else can be done but to shred their records down to minutia? I'm looking at Masters, YEC's, & weeks at #1! Rafa winning 13 at one event eclipsed about all the greats in Paris alone! My animus might have been residual feelings after failed attempts by Roger & Novak losing those FO finals! They just wanted 1 out of all those moments 10-15 years ago! WOW! There will be obvious opposing views, but I'm well documented on here and elsewhere!

Fiero , try to be unbiased and transparent. Rewatch the final and tell me if you believe that Novak could have execute the volleys and half/stab volleys that Rafa performed. I never ever seen someone racket control at that skill level Ever ( including McEnroe and Federer).

 

[Fiero425]

Fiero , try to be unbiased and transparent. Rewatch the final and tell me if you believe that Novak could have execute the volleys and half/stab volleys that Rafa performed. I never ever seen someone racket control at that skill level Ever ( including McEnroe and Federer).

I don't understand! What does better or equivalent execution of a shot have to do w/ the overall ability to "get it done?" I must be missing something!