2019 Men’s Wimbledon Final: Novak Djokovic vs. Roger Federer

Who wins?

  • Djokovic in three sets

    Votes: 4 22.2%
  • Djokovic in four sets

    Votes: 6 33.3%
  • Djokovic in five sets

    Votes: 3 16.7%
  • Federer in three sets

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Federer in four sets

    Votes: 4 22.2%
  • Federer in five sets

    Votes: 1 5.6%

  • Total voters
    18
  • Poll closed .

brokenshoelace

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In the end, Federer fans are disappointed and Djokovic haters (like Broken who is a nadal fanatic) are angry. .

The problem with this line of thinking, and it always makes me chuckle when people scream "bias" on message boards, is it can be used in reverse. Just as easily, I can say notoriously desperate Federer hater who's bitter Roger left his hero in his dust and whipped his boots with his legacy, MikeOne, is just an anti Roger fanatic who wants to give Djokovic credit for everything b/c it doesn't suit his narrative if Roger played those match points poorly, even if it means saying something as stupid as "zero evidence Roger hits better approaches than Roddick."
 

brokenshoelace

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when you get this vicious personally insulting me, i know i have you locked in, in a rage, cause i'm getting the better of you. Try and at least show respect, i'm not insulting you. You are acting like a little kid, an angry man.. is life that bad broken?



.

I insult you because there's no way anyone can make that many insanely dumb posts in a row while accusing others of being biased, clueless, whatever. "A shot is a shot, it doesn't matter who hit it," and "zero evidence Roger has better approaches than Roddick" are literal word for word statements you've made in this thread.
 

Moxie

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No, they came before his magic transformation and I'd hazard a guess if it wasn't for his love of eggs and amazing new "diet" Roddick would have beaten him plenty more. He went from having absolutely shocking cardio pre 2010 and multiple retirements mid match (go re-watch Roddick's hilarious video saying he has Sars, Asian bird flu etc) to suddenly never getting tired in the space of about 2 to 3 months. Amazing stuff and no one in the media has the balls to call him out on it.
Not to put too fine a point on it about "balls," but this didn't bother you either, when it was just Novak blocking Rafa at Majors. You didn't even care about the Egg until it started to look like Novak himself could be a threat to Roger's record...'round about 2015?
 

brokenshoelace

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In the end, Federer fans are disappointed and Djokovic haters (like Broken who is a nadal fanatic) are angry. It doesn't matter what statistics show or how Federer played the critical points, what matters is who won. This match, IMO, was a remarkable win for Djokovic. He faced a Federer that was playing brilliant tennis, had dusted a red-hot Rafa in semis and showed no signs of age in finals, he basically played 6 sets and looked fresh at the end. Djokovic was able to weather the storm, somehow avoid getting straight setted by a Roger playing at a high level, i can't think of anyone else who could've won that 1st set against Federer playing that well. Somehow Djoker came back from giving a set away and in the big moments, made 0 UFEs, 0 UFEs! and bested Federer. This, in many ways, is more impressive to how he destroyed Rafa in AO finals. The long list of excuses is pointless, tennis is not just about ability to strike the ball perfectly every shot, it's about handling pressure, tactics, managing ups/downs, coming up big when it matters the most. This elevates Djokovic to higher ground, he is on his way to 20 slams.

Oh, also saying Federer hit a bad shot IS NOT AN EXCUSE. The hell is wrong with you? It's simply saying he played that point poorly. Nobody said he was sick or tired or whatever. If you played a point poorly, or couldn't hold your nerve, and your opponent played them better, he outplayed you. Nobody is disputing that part. But you're so dogmatic and binary that you can't get it.
 

MikeOne

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I insult you because there's no way anyone can make that many insanely dumb posts in a row while accusing others of being biased, clueless, whatever. "A shot is a shot, it doesn't matter who hit it," and "zero evidence Roger has better approaches than Roddick" are literal word for word statements you've made in this thread.

yet, you can't refute the posts... so are they dumb? None of your posts have been able to refute what i have pointed out. Somehow you think just insulting, calling someone dumb, is a way to win an argument. It actually shows me you can't, so you resort to the attacks. Try and break my arguments, not me.
 

Bonaca

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Christ on a bike... has one-shot ever come under the microscope so much?

Fed comes in on an ill-timed approach, that you "kind of get" as a changeup to keep Novak guessing - probably better employed when he's 30-0 up or similar, rather than in this particular situation.

Not a huge amount of pace behind it... Novak doesn't have to work hard to make a play on the ball... a couple of split steps... doesn't really have to make much of a decision, because Fed's locked out the DTL option with his positioning and plays a well-executed cross-court pass.

Novak executes and took care of business... Kudos, but how this is being elevated to one of the greatest shots in tennis history is beyond me.
In the end, Federer fans are disappointed and Djokovic haters (like Broken who is a nadal fanatic) are angry. It doesn't matter what statistics show or how Federer played the critical points, what matters is who won. This match, IMO, was a remarkable win for Djokovic. He faced a Federer that was playing brilliant tennis, had dusted a red-hot Rafa in semis and showed no signs of age in finals, he basically played 6 sets and looked fresh at the end. Djokovic was able to weather the storm, somehow avoid getting straight setted by a Roger playing at a high level, i can't think of anyone else who could've won that 1st set against Federer playing that well. Somehow Djoker came back from giving a set away and in the big moments, made 0 UFEs, 0 UFEs! and bested Federer. This, in many ways, is more impressive to how he destroyed Rafa in AO finals. The long list of excuses is pointless, tennis is not just about ability to strike the ball perfectly every shot, it's about handling pressure, tactics, managing ups/downs, coming up big when it matters the most. This elevates Djokovic to higher ground, he is on his way to 20 slams.
Nice summary for us Novak fans.
There is surely a different point of view for the others, not meaning the haters.
I try my best to respect that, no finger in this wound. I’m pretty sure we will also get in this situation.
They are fucking disappointed, like we were at this years French SF or the bad dip of Novak after winning the French 2016.
Beside that, the UFE stat in the big moments, man that’s huge! For me the style of play and win against bull in a slam final was more impressive.
I prefer another win in Paris against Bull in the final, both playing well , more than reaching the 20. If dreaming is allowed.
 
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herios

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No, they came before his magic transformation and I'd hazard a guess if it wasn't for his love of eggs and amazing new "diet" Roddick would have beaten him plenty more. He went from having absolutely shocking cardio pre 2010 and multiple retirements mid match (go re-watch Roddick's hilarious video saying he has Sars, Asian bird flu etc) to suddenly never getting tired in the space of about 2 to 3 months. Amazing stuff and no one in the media has the balls to call him out on it.
Give a break please. You are like a broken record, going on and on.
Let me tell you something, if Novak is suspicious from this point of view, so is Roger. Or did he found somehow a fountain of eternal youth, and that makes him moving out there fresh as daisy at this age.
 
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brokenshoelace

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yet, you can't refute the posts... so are they dumb? None of your posts have been able to refute what i have pointed out. Somehow you think just insulting, calling someone dumb, is a way to win an argument. It actually shows me you can't, so you resort to the attacks. Try and break my arguments, not me.

I can't refute that Federer has better approaches than Roddick and that it doesn't matter who hits a tennis shot?

Let me quote myself, from this very page (I have to walk you through this?):

"Just to be clear, because I still can't get over this, approach shots nowadays are essentially just ground strokes. @MikeOne bringing up Samrpas is ridiculous because tennis was different in those days, and there were far more sliced approaches or all around imperfect approaches that players would get away with as their opponents simply didn't hit passing shots as well as the top players do nowadays (improvement in racket technology, players moving better, being more athletic, etc...). Sampras often came in behind iffy approaches to rush the opponent and put pressure. Tennis however, has evolved, and Sampras is completely irrelevant to this conversation (as he is to the GOAT conversation).

So as approach shots are essentially just forehands/backhands nowadays, and there is zero doubt in anyone's mind that Federer has a miles better forehand/backhand than Roddick, please explain to me how his approach shots are as bad as Roddick's notoriously awful approaches."

As far as a "shot is a shot, it doesn't matter who hit it":

This doesn't apply to a bad or mediocre shot. Your argument essentially is that a 100 mph forehand will most likely be unreturnable no matter who hit it. Sure. Except a mediocre approach hit by Federer is not the same as a mediocre approach hit by Roddick in terms of how it needs to be assessed (not in terms of what it results in on the court), because Federer is a much better shot maker and typically hits better approaches, and is capable of more, so him being unable to produce a better quality shot is far more notable than Roddick doing it.

Get it? Like I mean really, you say I insult you, but you literally were unable to understand these very basic points that I've already addressed.
 

brokenshoelace

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Give a break please. You are like a broken record, going on and on.
Let me tell you something, if Novak is suspicious from this point of view, so is Roger. Or did he found somehow a fountain of eternal youth, and that makes him moving out there fresh as daisy at this age.

They all dope. I can't believe people are so naïve.
 
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MikeOne

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Oh, also saying Federer hit a bad shot IS NOT AN EXCUSE. The hell is wrong with you? It's simply saying he played that point poorly. Nobody said he was sick or tired or whatever. If you played a point poorly, or couldn't hold your nerve, and your opponent played them better, he outplayed you. Nobody is disputing that part. But you're so dogmatic and binary that you can't get it.

The point is how little credit is given to Djokovic for pulling that off in a pressure situation and how you all make it seem as if Federer has never won volleys off similarly struck approaches. I encourage you to spend some time looking at hundreds of Federer volleys on youtube, or just look at his matches. Federer has won literally hundreds of volleys off similarly struck approach shots, in his career, the evidence is everywhere. A volleyer doesn't always come to net, only when he hits a perfect approach, often, the strategy is to put pressure on the passer, off avg. makable passing shots... it pays off sometimes, it didn't on that point. This is basic tennis 101, something coaches teach players. The approach could've been deeper, harder but wasn't exactly a sitting duck, the pressure was put on Novak, to make that not so easy shot, down match point.
 
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shawnbm

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It seems there is too much over analysis of this in my humble opinion. It was a huge moment and the Swiss star had clearly outplayed his opponent and had two championship points on his own service. Nine times out of 10 he’s going to win. Novak had a very good return on the first one and, in light of the nerves, Fed could not get out-of-the-way in time and hit it back in the court. That is all on Novak. It was a clutch shot. Think of how many service returns by Novak before and after that one serve sailed long during the match! It did not happen at that moment, though. Then comes the next point, there was a minimal amount of rallying and then Federer, as he so often has in the past, tried to be and was in fact the aggressive player by forcing either a winner from Novak to stay in the match or victory. Was it the best approach shot? No, but he was feeling the pressure too. He was so close he could taste it and, again all credit to the Serbian, Nole actually pulled off what some may call a routine passing shot, if there is such a thing. I do not believe it was a routine passing shot when you’re championship point down in the fifth set of a classic final at—of all places—SW19. , He did it, however, and then he fought tooth and nail with Roger for the remainder of the match. They both had opportunities and they both scrapped and saved and pushed the other. Roger would never see another championship point. He failed in the tiebreakers and part of that is the style of play, but he has won many clutch tiebreakers over his career, so he died with his style of play this time. He got nervous because he had lost two tiebreakers earlier and now he was in a final one. I think it would be unrealistic for him to not also recall that he had lost two big matches against the very same player after he had match points. Did it get to him? I have to believe it did. Yet, Novák still had to play and he still had to believe and he still had to do what he did. One mistake and Roger would’ve one. Was Roger the better player during the day? I think it is clear he was. Can he still win these types of majors? Obviously he can.

I think everyone is being too critical. It was heartbreaking if you are Roger fan and exhilarating if you’re a fan of Nole. Roger can handle pressure as he mentally has had some issues he had with the Spaniard and has proved he can get past that again and again. It may take some time, but he is running out of time to do it against the Serbian. All in all, it was thrilling and we should all be thankful.
 

MikeOne

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Give a break please. You are like a broken record, going on and on.
Let me tell you something, if Novak is suspicious from this point of view, so is Roger. Or did he found somehow a fountain of eternal youth, and that makes him moving out there fresh as daisy at this age.

lol, yeah. At 37, doing what Roger is doing, 'suspicious'. Or nadal, for that matter... how he seems super human physically. We can make arguments as to why all are 'suspicious'.
 
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I don't know who got this out of the sticky threads, but thanks!!!!!
 
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MikeOne

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It seems there is too much over analysis of this in my humble opinion. It was a huge moment and the Swiss star had clearly outplayed his opponent and had two championship points on his own service. Nine times out of 10 he’s going to win. Novak had a very good return on the first one and, in light of the nerves, Fed could not get out-of-the-way in time and hit it back in the court. That is all on Novak. It was a clutch shot. Think of how many service returns by Novak before and after that one serve sailed long during the match! It did not happen at that moment, though. Then comes the next point, there was a minimal amount of rallying and then Federer, as he so often has in the past, tried to be and was in fact the aggressive player by forcing either a winner from Novak to stay in the match or victory. Was it the best approach shot? No, but he was feeling the pressure too. He was so close he could taste it and, again all credit to the Serbian, Nole actually pulled off what some may call a routine passing shot, if there is such a thing. I do not believe it was a routine passing shot when you’re championship point down in the fifth set of a classic final at—of all places—SW19. , He did it, however, and then he fought tooth and nail with Roger for the remainder of the match. They both had opportunities and they both scrapped and saved and pushed the other. Roger would never see another championship point. He failed in the tiebreakers and part of that is the style of play, but he has won many clutch tiebreakers over his career, so he died with his style of play this time. He got nervous because he had lost two tiebreakers earlier and now he was in a final one. I think it would be unrealistic for him to not also recall that he had lost two big matches against the very same player after he had match points. Did it get to him? I have to believe it did. Yet, Novák still had to play and he still had to believe and he still had to do what he did. One mistake and Roger would’ve one. Was Roger the better player during the day? I think it is clear he was. Can he still win these types of majors? Obviously he can.

I think everyone is being too critical. It was heartbreaking if you are Roger fan and exhilarating if you’re a fan of Nole. Roger can handle pressure as he mentally has had some issues he had with the Spaniard and has proved he can get past that again and again. It may take some time, but he is running out of time to do it against the Serbian. All in all, it was thrilling and we should all be thankful.

agreed entirely.

There is a middle ground here. It was an emotional match, hard to watch at times. As a Djokovic fan, i felt the pressure when Federer approached the net, never did i think 'OH, YES! easy passing shot', it took GUTS to hit that passing shot and go for that placement, that is not an easy shot for even #1 player in the world, in that situation above all. When Novak made that shot, i was like 'phew!' and i bet Federer fans were like 'F-CK' how did he come in behind that!' Of course, had that pressure play paid off, Federer fans would've been 'phew!'.

In the end, that play wasn't nearly as bad as Federer fans make it out to be. One of the basic things a tennis coach teaches players is that sometimes, it's a smart play to come in and force opponent to make a good shot, under pressure. Guys, this is tennis 101. Sampras did it all the time, Federer has done it literally hundreds of times. Serve and Volleyers and net rushers have never just employed a strategy of 'only come in behind the perfectly struck and placed approach'. It is fact that Federer has won hundreds of points at the net, behind similarly struck approach shots.

A big part of tennis is playing the situation. Have you heard of chip and charge? usually, the chip is not struck that great but it's a play of surprise, a pressure play. The situation at 40-30 was that Federer had a match point, after having squandered one. He was probably a bit nervous, thoughts racing through his head 'should i stay from the back, oh, but Novak is so solid', 'should i risk hitting a very good approach shot, what if i miss, i'm a bit nervous, i could miss badly' etc.. etc... and so he basically made a simple decision - hit a safe approach shot, force Djokovic to come up big, down match point. This is not a horrendous, stupid, dumb play, it could've paid off, as it has hundreds of times throughout his career. If we want to criticize the play, to me , the most reasonable criticism would be - 'never go safe in that situation, especially against one of the GOATS, never bank on a one of the GOATs succumbing to pressure, go for it, risk it, if you miss, you miss'. But honestly, would it have felt any better if Federer would've shanked that approach had he gone for that perfect shot, under pressure, nervous as he was? probably not... he would have been criticized as aggressively...
 
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Nadalfan2013

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Can you imagine if for example Sampras had 7-8 Wimbledon titles but was 0-3 in finals against Agassi there? Would he still be seen as the Wimbledon/grass Goat? I think many people would have their doubts... This looks bad for Federer... Sampras was kind of unbeatable there, nobody came close to him at Wimbledon... and now Djokovic is making his move... Where does Federer and his fans go from there? Wimbledon was supposed to be Federer's playground, but it's not... :help: :nono:
 

MikeOne

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Can you imagine if for example Sampras had 7-8 Wimbledon titles but was 0-3 in finals against Agassi there? Would he still be seen as the Wimbledon/grass Goat? I think many people would have their doubts... This looks bad for Federer... Sampras was kind of unbeatable there, nobody came close to him at Wimbledon... Where does Federer and his fans go from there? Wimbledon was supposed to be Federer's playground, but it's not... :help:

haha, rubbing salt in the wounds.

difference is Sampras retired at 32? i don't think Pete would've been able to beat Federer in 2006/7, in Wimbledon finals, at 37 years of age, or even Nadal.

but... it is tough, to lose 3 Wimbledon finals against a guy trying to beat your records. It's a big blow..
 
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atttomole

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haha, rubbing salt in the wounds.

difference is Sampras retired at 32? i don't think Pete would've been able to beat Federer in 2006/7, in Wimbledon finals, at 37 years of age, or even Nadal.

but... it is tough, to lose 3 Wimbledon finals against a guy trying to beat your records. It's a big blow..
Not just that. I don’t think he would have been able to reach the quarterfinals of Wimbledon.
 

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With Joker winning five of these, it kind of makes Rog's 8 small.

"It is not enough to merely win; Others must lose" - Gore Vidal.
 
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Jelenafan

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Isn’t the point of a good approach shot is that it’s the right time to do it, albeit your oppon
With Joker winning five of these, it kind of makes Rog's 8 small.

"It is not enough to merely win; Others must lose" - Gore Vidal.

When all is said and done, Novak could end up with a couple more Wimbledon titles before his career is ended.
 
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