Roland Garros / French Open 2023 [Men] - Grand Slam

Fiero425

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momentum is not a stright line…. How many times have we seen Novak lose a set when opponent has ‘momentum’ and them race to a lead in next set?

in 1st set, novak dominated.

In the second set, it was a bit strange.. there were many momentum shifts. Alcaraz struck first, then novak broke back and had a break point to go up and close out set.. carlitos fought it and broke and got the set. Also, if you remember, there was a weird few games where novak was having some elbow issues… he took mph off his first serve, mcenroe mentioned it.. and he had two bad service games. The set was a thriller with momentum shifts.. great points.

carlitos got the set but not in dominant fashion, he was like close to losing it. Then, as i mention, momentum is not a straight line. Often when a player has momentum, it’s followed by a dip.. it’s the law of human energy, difficult to play flawless and maintain that intensity and energy. It’s possible that novak could’ve raced to a lead in 3rd set…. We will never know.

Just speculation. In the end, i think it was 100% djokovic’s physicality, shot making, defense that was the main problem. Carlitos was toying with his previous opponents and i think came in overconfident hoenstly. He seemed surprised by novak’s pace in 1set, in many rallies novak’s fh absorbed carlitos’ pace and ball came back even harder. He was moving carlitos, doing to him what carlitos did to previous opponents. Ontop of pace, novak was running down balls unlike carlito’s previous opponents.. Second set was no cakewalk, carlitos had to run a lot, summon a very high level and face many pressure points…

Novak caused the cramps…

i also can’t recall ever seeing a player bail out for 2 sets after cramps, especially after just 2 sets. These athletes can recover, i think he gave up mentally too, my opinion. He pulled a djokovic when novak gave up against rafa early in his career.

The first set went well over an hour; Friday & today! Djokovic turned that match against Alcaraz into a war of attrition! Carlos thought as usual that he could tire out an aging Novak w/ dropshots! He didn't win many outright as Novak got to most of them w/ ease at 36! As I've been saying, even w/ all the shotmaking of Carlos and making Novak work, it was the kid that broke down first after 2 very long sets! Djokovic took his legs and put them in his bag so as a result, CA was done like a roasted chicken! That was the defacto final, though anti-climactic since it was basically a walk-around of the 3rd & 4th sets! "Congrats Novak on #23!" :clap: :face-with-hand-over-mouth::face-with-tears-of-joy:
 
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MargaretMcAleer

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momentum is not a stright line…. How many times have we seen Novak lose a set when opponent has ‘momentum’ and them race to a lead in next set?

in 1st set, novak dominated.

In the second set, it was a bit strange.. there were many momentum shifts. Alcaraz struck first, then novak broke back and had a break point to go up and close out set.. carlitos fought it and broke and got the set. Also, if you remember, there was a weird few games where novak was having some elbow issues… he took mph off his first serve, mcenroe mentioned it.. and he had two bad service games. The set was a thriller with momentum shifts.. great points.

carlitos got the set but not in dominant fashion, he was like close to losing it. Then, as i mention, momentum is not a straight line. Often when a player has momentum, it’s followed by a dip.. it’s the law of human energy, difficult to play flawless and maintain that intensity and energy. It’s possible that novak could’ve raced to a lead in 3rd set…. We will never know.

Just speculation. In the end, i think it was 100% djokovic’s physicality, shot making, defense that was the main problem. Carlitos was

toying with his previous opponents and i think came in overconfident hoenstly. He seemed surprised by novak’s pace in 1set, in many rallies novak’s fh absorbed carlitos’ pace and ball came back even harder. He was moving carlitos, doing to him what carlitos did to previous opponents. Ontop of pace, novak was running down balls unlike carlito’s previous opponents.. Second set was no cakewalk, carlitos had to run a lot, summon a very high level and face many pressure points…

Novak caused the cramps…

i also can’t recall ever seeing a player bail out for 2 sets after cramps, especially after just 2 sets. These athletes can recover, i think he gave up mentally too, my opinion. He pulled a djokovic when novak gave up against rafa early in his career.
IIf you think Novak cause Carlos to cramp, that is your theory, not mine, I dont invest in hypothetical's, it was not a clear cut case, that Novak cause him cramps,being in the medical profession, I deal in facts., cramps can be cause by a lack of hydration, lack of magnesium in a player system,, Todd Woodbridge, a former player, who was one of my commies on the match, stated it was more physical related than stress related. I suggest he get a full FBC in his bloods to see if he is lacking in essential vitimans and minerals, if low, can be a factor in why he cramped, he did say he felt stressed, though to me there has to be more in it than just stress.
 
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BratSrbin

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IIf you think Novak cause Carlos to cramp, that is your theory, not mine, I dont invest in hypothetical's, it was not a clear cut case, that Novak cause him cramps,being in the medical profession, I deal in facts. As I said you are entitled to you opinion. I need to get some sleep as I am on night duty at the hospital. Thanks

This about No1e exhausting the opponent is not Mike's theory but excellent tennis connoisseurs of the world.
You can check out one of them, Rodicks, a few posts above. I wanted to remind you of her.
 
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MargaretMcAleer

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This about No1e exhausting the opponent is not Mike's theory but excellent tennis connoisseurs of the world.
As I said I am in the medical profession there is a hosts of reason why people or athletes cramp, as I outlined in my post to Mike, I did suggest that Alcaraz get a FCB on his bloods to see if there is anything that is lacking or low in essential vitimans, Todd Woodbridge, a former player who was one of my commies on the match, stated it was more a physical related, I think have a bit more knowledge in this area of medicine that the tennis connossseurs of the world.Enough from me I need sleep before I go on duty at the hospital later.
 
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Moxie

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why didn’t alcaraz cramp vs tsitsipas, mussetti yet out of the blue, breaks down vs djokovic? Hmmm mighty coincidence

i’ll tell you why, alcaraz couldn’t handle djokovic’s game. Novak was rushing alcaraz, dictating many of the rallies and making Carlitos hit extra balls. None of the previous opponents could do this. Carlitos felt the heat, had to match the intensity and after two grueling sets, couldn’t handle djokovic’s intensity, physicality and yes, game. Novak was doing things to carlitos others couldn’t do.

many claim this was a tie, technically it was 1 set a piece but novak dominated 1st set and carlitos just barely got set 2… it went back and forth with novak having break points to take lead late in set.

to me novak’s game beat carlitos.. fair and square. Had any other player faced carlitos, carlitos would be holding trophy…

this reminds me of when novak couldn’t handle rafa and retired a few times early on.. that was rafa’s game, physicality and intensity… no excuses for djoker back then and no excuses for carlitos this time

carlitos, like djokovic, needs to learn from this and next time, be ready.
Alcaraz very elegantly claimed that he was nervous from the start, and that the cramping was from the tension of facing Djokovic in that semi, so you're right. However, Alcaraz lost to Sinner in Miami when he suffered cramping, (which he refused to blame, btw,) so he has got an issue with cramps.

Courier was talking about how there are nervous cramps, and physical cramps. I actually thought that Alcaraz has generally handled pressure well, so I was surprised, but who knows what pressures a player feels and absorbs. I do agree with you that if it had been, say, Rublev or Khachanov in that SF, Alcaraz might well have gotten though to win it all. Or the stress of the final could have caused cramps, and Ruud might be holding it.

As to anyone calling that SF a "tie," I'm not sure what else you read on the internet before wandering over here to make the odd comment, but no one here called that match a "tie," that I saw. That was a win for Novak, and Carlos didn't bail on it. He manfully took his beating. Loss of conditioning is no excuse in tennis. As you say, Carlitos will learn from this, and hopefully correct some issues, because he does have a cramping issue. And he needs to handle the pressure of the big moments better. He's 20. He has time, and he'll learn.
 

BratSrbin

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As I said I am in the medical profession there is a hosts of reason why people or athletes cramp, as I outlined in my post to Mike, I did suggest that Alcaraz get a FCB on his bloods to see if there is anything that is lacking or low in essential vitimans, I think have a bit more knowledge in this area of medicine that the tennis connossseurs of the world.Enough from me I need sleep before I go on duty at the hospital later.

I don't think medicine is strong in this field, field of cramps. There is no cure, no prevention for this problem, and that is enough for me to come to the conclusion that this area is not properly covered in medicine.
 

MargaretMcAleer

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I don't think medicine is strong in this field, field of cramps. There is no cure, no prevention for this problem, and that is enough for me to come to the conclusion that this area is not properly covered in medicine.
, yes there are preventative measures for cramping which is covered in medicine., I suggest you read up on this subject for starters, before making ignorant statements
 
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MargaretMcAleer

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Alcaraz very elegantly claimed that he was nervous from the start, and that the cramping was from the tension of facing Djokovic in that semi, so you're right. However, Alcaraz lost to Sinner in Miami when he suffered cramping, (which he refused to blame, btw,) so he has got an issue with cramps.

Courier was talking about how there are nervous cramps, and physical cramps. I actually thought that Alcaraz has generally handled pressure well, so I was surprised, but who knows what pressures a player feels and absorbs. I do agree with you that if it had been, say, Rublev or Khachanov in that SF, Alcaraz might well have gotten though to win it all. Or the stress of the final could have caused cramps, and Ruud might be holding it.

As to anyone calling that SF a "tie," I'm not sure what else you read on the internet before wandering over here to make the odd comment, but no one here called that match a "tie," that I saw. That was a win for Novak, and Carlos didn't bail on it. He manfully took his beating. Loss of conditioning is no excuse in tennis. As you say, Carlitos will learn from this, and hopefully correct some issues, because he does have a cramping issue. And he needs to handle the pressure of the big moments better. He's 20. He has time, and he'll learn.
I read that as well Moxie, I am still not 100% convinced, there also has to be something lacking in his system, I think he needs to have a FBC in bloods to see if he is lacking in vital minerals and vitimans, eg magnesiun., yes he stated he was nervous there has to be more than just stress for him to be cramping. also it was a very hot day., one of my commies on the match Todd Woodbridge, a former player, doesnt think it was stress related he stated it was more physical related
 
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Kieran

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Carlos didn’t cramp because they played 2 sets. Novak didn’t run him into the ground. He cracked because he’s young and his nerves overran him. Simple as that…
 
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Sundaymorningguy

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JCF might want to create a stronger media bubble around Carlos. You just want to play that match and not listen to what everyone thinks is going to happen. I’m sure that type of tension played a part in the cramping.
 

nehmeth

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JCF might want to create a stronger media bubble around Carlos. You just want to play that match and not listen to what everyone thinks is going to happen. I’m sure that type of tension played a part in the cramping.
Ferrero has done an incredible job bringing this young man into his best. If Carlos had been listening to what everyone thought would happen, he would have gone into the match completely relaxed!. But he knew the opponent he was facing having met him in Madrid. It was the big stage, against one of the sport’s greatest players. I wouldn’t blame his team for the nerves or the cramping.
 
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El Dude

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To put things in context, Alcaraz is almost two years younger than Roger was when he won his first Slam, four years younger than Lendl was when he won his first, and five years younger than Andy's first.

What's more, Carlos has only played 159 ATP level matches and 45 tournaments. That's about two full seasons worth. He's just a baby, still!

In truth, it is scary to think what a more mature and seasoned Alcaraz will look like. He's going to be very hard to put down.
 

BratSrbin

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" Djokovic, 36, outlasts Alcaraz, 20, at Roland Garros​


June 9, 2023

Before the match, Carlos Alcaraz, age 20, began by jumping up and down at the net to show off his younger legs.


Novak Djokovic, age 36, wasn’t intimidated. He knew he could rely on his stamina, patience, experience and his ability to take the down the legs of his opponents.


The old master Djokovic schooled Alcaraz in the first set. He broke Alcaraz to go up 3-1 by pummeling his forehand corner. Djokovic shrugged off break points, let wind gusts pass, used a topspin first serve to fool Carlitos on big points, and won the first set 6-3.


Taking the ball early, Djokovic’s baseline position took away Alcaraz’s biggest weapon — his drop shot. Djokovic maneuvered Alcaraz around the baseline into his weaker forehand corner, and then he repeatedly wrongfooted Carlitos to take away his speed.


In the second set, Djokovic seemed tentative and bothered by his right arm injury. He missed several opportunities to win the mini-tennis battles, and his forehand misfired.


The shotmaking by #Alcaraz was out of this world, but Djokovic continued to serve out of trouble, saving 3 set points. He forced a forehand error out of Carlitos to even the set at 5-5. Djokovic overcooked a backhand on break point and Carlos managed to hold a nervy game to go ahead 6-5. Then, Alcaraz spun a dropshot off the line, and Djokovic overhit a forehand to give Alcaraz the second set 7-5.


“We were both pushed to the limit after the second set,” Djokovic said after the match.


Early in the third set, Djokovic’s strategy paid off. Alcaraz’s body broke down. He cramped up in his arm and then his right leg. He forfeited a game to get treatment, and never really returned to his previous form and energy level. Djokovic pumped himself up to maintain his level and ran away with the last two sets.


Alcaraz, who came into the French Open ranked #1, later blamed his cramps on the tension and intensity of playing his first slam match against 22-time champion Djokovic. In the end, Djokovic won because of his experience and conditioning. While Djokovic schooled him on the day, Alcaraz seems willing to learn.


“I feel sorry for him,” said Djokovic after the match. “I hope he can recover and come back very soon. He’s going to win this tournament many many times.”


But not this time. Djokovic seems determined to win his 23rd major, which would put him ahead of Rafa Nadal, Roger Federer and every other player in men’s tennis history."
 
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MargaretMcAleer

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JCF might want to create a stronger media bubble around Carlos. You just want to play that match and not listen to what everyone thinks is going to happen. I’m sure that type of tension played a part in the cramping.
Well Novak said his team did a good job of putting a bubble around him before the match, I did post a quote about this on the previous page, of course both players would be nervous before this SF, even Novak and how many SF has he played in his career, and look how he began in the 1st set of the GS, full of nerves and UFE, until he settled and won the 1st set in a TB, nerves can play a part of cramping but it is only a part of it.
 

the AntiPusher

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Not really. And his semi with Sasha was 7-6, 6-6 when the German broke his ankle. Hardly beating his junk.

His match against FAA was his toughest in years???? I guess you mean matches that he played and won?
Rob..did you see the entire match vs FAA..? If there's a BETTER match You believe speak on it ..Novak won. Yada yada yada I won't degrade the championship by saying it deserves an asterisk.. without facing Rafa . really who did Novak defeat? Carlos "illness" was unfortunate but other than two tough sets it wasn't a good match
 
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BratSrbin

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Rob..did you see the entire match vs FAA..? If there's a BETTER match You believe speak on it ..Novak won. Yada yada yada I won't degrade the championship by saying it deserves an asterisk.. without facing Rafa . really who did Novak defeat? Carlos "illness" was unfortunate but other than two tough sets it wasn't a good match

The GS number is counted.

353464985_256978666918574_928507554492140033_n.jpg
 
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