US Politics Thread

[mrzz]

Except when he agrees with the idea that the cops can smash her window and haul her through it. That would be called excessive force, if all she's doing is following an ICE car. (Which I agree is stupid. That kid seems to be "playing at protesting." Not everyone who watches is.)

He is 100% right about that too. The reasons are explained in the video itself. I could expand it, but you know it already. It would be horrible if law enforcemnt were to smash windows without motive. In that case, they are giving the motive, and this motive was explained in detail in the video.

Nothing happens in a vaccuum. Actions have consequences. You don't need me to know that.

Problem here lies with the schizophrenic relation half of the US has with immigration, this is visible not only here, but was plain to see in what you replied me about what you would do if you were running ICE: you either have open borders or you don't. It is up to a society to decide it, and if said society decides that the borders are open, fine. Completely valid.

Or, you can have a process. The same society decides what the process is. It can be easy to get in, or difficult. Whatever you chose, it is your choice, and it is fine. But once you decided it, the ones who willingly did not follow that process are cheating. That is not hard to understand.

So it is obvious to me that the ones advocating for open borders, or at least for much easier legal process to get in, should fight to change immigration laws, not the agency which enforces the existing laws. It is completely and utterly insane. I could go on and on, but I will spare us both of that.

 

[Federberg]

I think he's not the guy he was, even a year ago. Maybe not quite Sleepy Joe, but definitely Dozy Don. I think he always has the media cycle in mind with everything he does. Unfortunately for him, the Epstein thing is like fox poo (that stuff will hang around on your shoe like you won't believe), but yes I think he's willing to try anything to change the media cycle in his favour. But I think it also meets his financial interests, I'm sure there are a few Shale producers that are contributing to the Trump fund in some way. But if you're asking me if he's thinking about the midterms or 2028? I honestly believe he would almost rather the Dems win in '28 to show that only he could do it. By then he'll be far too old to bother with, and any Democrat who goes after him will be monumentally stupid. I mean... stupid beyond belief!

it's been pointed out to me, that there's another payoff with this Venezuela thing. The oil embargo will cause Cuba to fail most likely. In fact Cuba is probably at more risk than Venezuela. Which was probably Rubio's plan

 

[Moxie]

You should hate them, but you don’t examine them enough to hate them, because you think like them: “who’s doing it? Barack? Oh he’s cute! Wuh? Trump is doing it? Nazi!”

Why do you need to say that to me? It's childish, and untrue. I don't need to "hate" anyone. But I did, just above, say that woman was stupid, and playing at protest.

 

[Moxie]

He is 100% right about that too. The reasons are explained in the video itself. I could expand it, but you know it already. It would be horrible if law enforcemnt were to smash windows without motive. In that case, they are giving the motive, and this motive was explained in detail in the video.

Nothing happens in a vaccuum. Actions have consequences. You don't need me to know that.

Problem here lies with the schizophrenic relation half of the US has with immigration, this is visible not only here, but was plain to see in what you replied me about what you would do if you were running ICE: you either have open borders or you don't. It is up to a society to decide it, and if said society decides that the borders are open, fine. Completely valid.

Or, you can have a process. The same society decides what the process is. It can be easy to get in, or difficult. Whatever you chose, it is your choice, and it is fine. But once you decided it, the ones who willingly did not follow that process are cheating. That is not hard to understand.

So it is obvious to me that the ones advocating for open borders, or at least for much easier legal process to get in, should fight to change immigration laws, not the agency which enforces the existing laws. It is completely and utterly insane. I could go on and on, but I will spare us both of that.

The reason is "explained" in the video by the guy who posted it...in the form of an elaborate "for instance." The force he threatened this woman with simply does not fit the "crime." All she was doing was following the ICE cop, based on what we saw. He told her to back off. If she obstructed him, that would be a crime, and she could be arrested. But there seems to be no need to break her window and rip her out of the car. It's customary for officers to ask people to step out of the vehicle.

We've talked about this before, as far as immigration. Everyone knows the system has huge problems. It's not a binary: open borders or closed ones. We have a lot of illegal aliens in this country, but they have long been relied on for work, too. Don't kid yourself: this country runs, in part, on illegal labor. And also labor performed by people here legally, who are getting thrown out. There is already an impact on many sectors that they've lost so many workers. It's going to be a big problem.

I would say that what people are objecting to is the obvious cruelty of it, and the indiscriminate way it's being carried out. That's no even about the laws. Most people in this country don't object to people coming to this people legally. It's not the laws, so much as the execution of them, or lack of. We have long, porous borders, and people come in illegally. The problem is complex. Trump, however, is just taking a sledgehammer to it.

 

[Moxie]

it's been pointed out to me, that there's another payoff with this Venezuela thing. The oil embargo will cause Cuba to fail most likely. In fact Cuba is probably at more risk than Venezuela. Which was probably Rubio's plan

I've heard this too. It's kind of pathetic. The Cubans are so poor, as it is, with our embargo that has gone on for 60 years, to no point. Rubio is surely of the Cuban Americans whose family lost wealth when they left Cuba, and they want it back, but it's never going to happen. It would be a good thing if he tried to make up with Cuba, and he's in a position to do so. I don't see it needs starving them further, when a little love and effort might work. With new investment laws there, it's time to make friends again. The Europeans are better situated to take advantage, and the US should consider a new attitude, too.

 

[mrzz]

The reason is "explained" in the video by the guy who posted it...in the form of an elaborate "for instance." The force he threatened this woman with simply does not fit the "crime." All she was doing was following the ICE cop, based on what we saw. He told her to back off. If she obstructed him, that would be a crime, and she could be arrested. But there seems to be no need to break her window and rip her out of the car. It's customary for officers to ask people to step out of the vehicle.

Again, context. This is not a traffic stop. Easiest way to understand this is simple: take any country, a very civilized one, something like Denmark. Now go there and start following law enforcement around and ignore their instructions. See what happens.

The entitlement of the people on that video is disgusting.

We've talked about this before, as far as immigration. Everyone knows the system has huge problems. It's not a binary: open borders or closed ones. We have a lot of illegal aliens in this country, but they have long been relied on for work, too. Don't kid yourself: this country runs, in part, on illegal labor. And also labor performed by people here legally, who are getting thrown out. There is already an impact on many sectors that they've lost so many workers. It's going to be a big problem.

I explicitly pointed out that it is not binary. I know that your country runs on illegal labor. I was sparing you of that part of the discussion. Do you know what is common in the absolute majority of modern slavery cases? Illegal immigration status. What do you think you'll find out if you follow the money in this case? People with hearts of gold or people who explore cheap labor?

I would say that what people are objecting to is the obvious cruelty of it, and the indiscriminate way it's being carried out. That's no even about the laws. Most people in this country don't object to people coming to this people legally. It's not the laws, so much as the execution of them, or lack of. We have long, porous borders, and people come in illegally. The problem is complex. Trump, however, is just taking a sledgehammer to it.

Here we are very close to agreement. Of course Trump is taking a sledgehammer to it. He is not capable of anything different. But you let the situation go far enough for, at the very least, an energic solution to be necessary.

 

[Moxie]

Again, context. This is not a traffic stop. Easiest way to understand this is simple: take any country, a very civilized one, something like Denmark. Now go there and start following law enforcement around and ignore their instructions. See what happens.

The entitlement of the people on that video is disgusting.

I explicitly pointed out that it is not binary. I know that your country runs on illegal labor. I was sparing you of that part of the discussion. Do you know what is common in the absolute majority of modern slavery cases? Illegal immigration status. What do you think you'll find out if you follow the money in this case? People with hearts of gold or people who explore cheap labor?

Here we are very close to agreement. Of course Trump is taking a sledgehammer to it. He is not capable of anything different. But you let the situation go far enough for, at the very least, an energic solution be necessary.

Tell me how you know what would happen in Denmark. And why would that matter? I'm telling you about laws in this country, which is where it happened.

 

[Kieran]

Why do you need to say that to me? It's childish, and untrue. I don't need to "hate" anyone. But I did, just above, say that woman was stupid, and playing at protest.

They’re all “playing at protest”: BLM, the angry anti-Jewish brigades, the climate pretenders, the gender hoaxers, they all “protest” when and where it suits them, selectively narrowing their anger towards the west. Avoiding “protesting” against people they consider to be useful allies, like China, Qatar, etc. They aren’t protesting at all, they’re aiming to destabilise and undermine the most successful, most diverse and most democratic societies there’s ever been, in favour of crazy socialism and murderous Islamists.

They’re masochistic idiots, in other words…

 

[Kieran]

This fraud story in Minnesota is only going to grow: fake daycare centres “run by” Somalians, this one now isn’t even listed on google, it’s phone number is the governors office.

Nick Shirley is doing sterling work as an independent journalist:

 

[mrzz]

Now it all makes sense... Let's see what happens next.

 

[Federberg]

Now it all makes sense... Let's see what happens next.

are you talking Venezuela? I don't want to hear anyone talking about how Trump isn't a neo-con anymore. That BS is over!

 

[mrzz]

are you talking Venezuela? I don't want to hear anyone talking about how Trump isn't a neo-con anymore. That BS is over!

I am talking about Venezuela. I am interested in the geo-political chess match. Zero interest in that particular topic you mentioned.

 

[Federberg]

I am talking about Venezuela. I am interested in the geo-political chess match. Zero interest in that particular topic you mentioned.

lol! So we're talking about the same thing then.. .Venezuela. Guess it must be that famous Brazilian humour!

Out of curiosity, is there any chance that Lula will be a bit nervous about this? Personally I don't see why, you have a functioning democracy, even if Trump's best friend is no longer in charge

 

[mrzz]

lol! So we're talking about the same thing then.. .Venezuela. Guess it must be that famous Brazilian humour!

Out of curiosity, is there any chance that Lula will be a bit nervous about this? Personally I don't see why, you have a functioning democracy, even if Trump's best friend is no longer in charge

Zero chance something remotely similar happens here. As you said, we have a functioning democracy (with its problems, but nothing close to Venezuela). More importantly, Trump support for the Bolsonaros is currently only rhetorical. The one thing Lula does reasonably well is external policy (as far as his ideological constrains allow him), so he and Trump even hugged in public, Trump said he is a great guy, etc and etc. So the current governments of Brazil and the US had already found a way to coexist. Trump would obviously like someone more US aligned, but Lula must be way down in his priority list right now.

Right wing people here keep saying that both Maduro and Nicaragua's Ortega know a lot of secrets that would expose Lula and his party (PT). Maybe there is some truth in it, but how important that is remains to be seen.

Brazil (and Lula) were quite vocal about Venezuela's election (in the aftermath of it, at least). I guess we never recognized the results. At the very least, Lula is way more "professional" and realistic than Maduro. He might be annoyed, but I would not say that he is worried.

 

[Moxie]

are you talking Venezuela? I don't want to hear anyone talking about how Trump isn't a neo-con anymore. That BS is over!

Completely outrageous that he staged that, without giving us any real reason for it, and not even a nod to Congress beforehand. They have the war powers, he doesn't. He wants to run the Western Hemisphere. He has stated a "Trump Corollary" to the Monroe Doctrine. He is signally to China and Russia that they can have free rein in their spheres of influence, too.

He says he (we!) are going to run Venezuela now. I don't see this ending well. For him, for us, our military, or for Venezuela.

 

[Fiero425]

Completely outrageous that he staged that, without giving us any real reason for it, and not even a nod to Congress beforehand. They have the war powers, he doesn't. He wants to run the Western Hemisphere. He has stated a "Trump Corollary" to the Monroe Doctrine. He is signally to China and Russia that they can have free rein in their spheres of influence, too.

He says he (we!) are going to run Venezuela now. I don't see this ending well. For him, for us, our military, or for Venezuela.

Shocking! Thank goodness I don't watch the news! My BP would skyrocket as we allow this psycho free reign to terrorize the world! We're building up such a rep. of being total A-#oles! It's not like Trump is the first American war criiminal president! Heaven knows "W" has to watch where he goes to this day! He s/b tried for the $#!T he perpetrated on us & the world after 911!

 

[mrzz]

Completely outrageous that he staged that, without giving us any real reason for it, and not even a nod to Congress beforehand. They have the war powers, he doesn't. He wants to run the Western Hemisphere. He has stated a "Trump Corollary" to the Monroe Doctrine. He is signally to China and Russia that they can have free rein in their spheres of influence, too.

He says he (we!) are going to run Venezuela now. I don't see this ending well. For him, for us, our military, or for Venezuela.

As I said before, I don't think Trump ends his term. This was an "all in". If everything falls into place, he can emerge stronger, otherwise...

What remains to be seen is if he has a (realistic) plan for the day after. If he doesn't...

 

[Moxie]

As I said before, I don't think Trump ends his term. This was an "all in". If everything falls into place, he can emerge stronger, otherwise...

What remains to be seen is if he has a (realistic) plan for the day after. If he doesn't...

Trump is barely going to make it through this one. His scattershot approach to foreign and domestic policy is not going to serve him well. His poll numbers are terrible. You can't stage a coup if you're this unpopular.

I doubt he has a plan for the day after invading Venezuela, if that's what you mean.

 

[Moxie]

Did you watch his speech? He seemed slurring and dotty. He tried to go off-script, but couldn't much. His first point was certainly about the oil, and how we're going to make them pump much more of it. Way before he got to the drugs, as rather an afterthought.

WATCH: Trump holds news conference after announcing U.S. has captured Venezuelan leader Maduro

President Donald Trump declared Saturday's military operation that led to the ouster of Nicolás Maduro a major success as he offered a vague plan for his administration “to run” Venezuela until a transition of power can take place.

www.pbs.org

 

[mrzz]

I doubt he has a plan for the day after invading Venezuela, if that's what you mean.

I mean the day after this operation, which is tomorrow. If nothing actually changes in Venezuela, he loses. If the country descends into civil war, he loses. If there is unrest, and violence in the streets, he loses. If there are American troops on the ground, he obviously loses.

As you said above, he made an act of war without congress approval. He can try to frame it otherwise, as that was the plan all along, but it is always all about the end result. If there is a peaceful transition of power, if the US regains something from the oil industry (without being dragged into conflict), in a nutshell, if in a few months it feels like a win, he might get away with it (and even so it is not a given). If it all backfires, he's toast.

Also, and maybe more importantly, a lot of moves are being made on a global scale. This is just one part of the board.

He made his play, and he is betting his presidency on it. It would be completely nuts not to have a plan, but nothing would surprise me, to be honest.