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mrzz

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I don't actually believe Trump wants to go to war, say anything about the man, but war is not something he seems to have any tolerance for. It's his one redeeming quality. I do believe however that he'll continue to use the Venezuelan situation as a distraction from his domestic woes. As a Republican lawmaker pointed out, why not go after the Mexican cartels who are far more complicit regarding fentanyl than Venezuela is.
I agree, even if I am not much of a fan of the "why this if so and so is more important" argument. Everything is a trade off so there _might_ be reasons behind any given choice that justify it. Having said that, I agree that Trump is a self-centered ignorant who cannot do anything right even in the few cases he is on the right side of the argument.

I have zero sympathy for the Maduro regime. They simply and brazenly stole the election. For the ones who do not remember, they simply got the ballot boxes, took a look and said: "we won, trust us". So whatever excuse Trump has for going after them is good enough, and that includes "I don't like guys with moustaches".

The "weapons of mass destruction" argument is actually a good one, if anyone in this administration were able to sustain a debate. @Moxie , you can focus on the effect and not the intent. If someone would want to explode an H bomb in the US for some weird random reason, it is still a weapon of mass destruction. At the very least you are not giving a shit about the consequences. It is the same about the boats, if Trump were careful or intelligent enough to create a new branch of military and/or a new federal agency, something hybrid with a lot of firepower and focused on drugs, and if they actually captured someone (even if they would put them away forever for some shady reason), he could do exactly the same things without giving his opposition so many arguments (but maybe he counted on the fact that his opposition would stick to the fisherman argument, which is the fastest way to lose this very winnable argument).

In short, I can make some mental gymnastics and see a logic behind his disruptive approach to politics. But even if that is the case, he is still incompetent to transform it into action. He is lucky his opposition is extremely stupid and incapable to talk to his base, and that includes most late night shows hosts. Trump is not the only one stuck in an echo chamber, but he seems to be the only one to know that.
 
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The other part, which seems to bother neither you nor Mr. Z is that she was held in shackles for 4 hours. Now, I don't know how things go in Ireland or Brazil, but here, that's kind of shocking.
Again, we don't know what she did. But, yes, it is probably less shocking for me than for you. What I do think is that some hours of real, manual labor would that lady some good.
 
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Moxie

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yup.. can't read it. Looking forward to your repost
"Our Petty, Hollow, Squalid Ogre in Chief" by Bret Stephens

Though I tend to think it’s usually a waste of space to devote a column to President Trump’s personality — what more is there to say about the character of this petty, hollow, squalid, overstuffed man? — sometimes the point bears stressing: We are led by the most loathsome human being ever to occupy the White House.

Markets will not be moved, or brigades redeployed, or history shifted, because Rob Reiner and Michele Singer Reiner were found stabbed to death on Sunday in their home in Los Angeles, allegedly at the hands of their troubled son Nick.

But this is an appalling human tragedy and a terrible national loss. Reiner’s movies, including “Stand by Me,” “The Princess Bride” and “When Harry Met Sally…,” are landmarks in the inner lives of millions of people; I can still quote by heart dialogue and song lyrics from his 1984 classic, “This Is Spinal Tap.” Until last week, he and Michele remained creative forces as well as one of Hollywood’s great real-life love stories. Their liberal politics, though mostly not my own, were honorable and sincere.

To which our ogre in chief had this to say on social media:

“A very sad thing happened last night in Hollywood. Rob Reiner, a tortured and struggling, but once very talented movie director and comedy star, has passed away, together with his wife, Michele, reportedly due to the anger he caused others through his massive, unyielding and incurable affliction with a mind crippling disease known as TRUMP DERANGEMENT SYNDROME, sometimes referred to as TDS. He was known to have driven people CRAZY by his raging obsession of President Donald J. Trump, with his obvious paranoia reaching new heights as the Trump Administration surpassed all goals and expectations of greatness, and with the Golden Age of America upon us, perhaps like never before. May Rob and Michele rest in peace!”
I quote Trump’s post in full not only because it must be read to be believed, but also because it captures the combination of preposterous grandiosity, obsessive self-regard and gratuitous spite that “deranged” the Reiners and so many other Americans trying to hold on to a sense of national decency. Good people and good nations do not stomp on the grief of others. Politics is meant to end at the graveside. That’s not just some social nicety. It’s a foundational taboo that any civilized society must enforce to prevent transient personal differences from becoming generational blood feuds.

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That is where history will record that the deepest damage by the Trump presidency was done. There is, as Adam Smith said, “a great deal of ruin in a nation,” by which he meant that there are things in almost any country that are going badly wrong but can still be mended. Foolishly imposed tariffs can be repealed. Hastily cut funding can be restored. Ill-thought-out national security strategies can be rewritten. Shaken trust can be rebuilt between Washington and our allies.

But the damage that cuts deepest is never financial, legal or institutional. As one of Smith’s greatest contemporaries, Edmund Burke, knew, it lies in something softer and less tangible but also more important: manners. “Manners are what vex or soothe, corrupt or purify, exalt or debase, barbarize or refine us,” Burke wrote. It is, he warned, through manners that laws are either made or unmade, upheld or corrupted.

Right now, in every grotesque social media post; in every cabinet meeting devoted, North Korea-like, to adulating him; in every executive-order-signing ceremony intended to make him appear like a Chinese emperor; in every fawning reference to all the peace he’s supposedly brought the world; in every Neronic enlargement of the White House’s East Wing; in every classless dig at his predecessor; in every shady deal his family is striking to enrich itself; in every White House gathering of tech billionaires paying him court (in the literal senses of both “pay” and “court”); in every visiting foreign leader who learns to abase himself to avoid some capricious tariff or other punishment — in all this and more, our standards as a nation are being debased, our manners barbarized.

I wonder if we are ever getting them back — and if so, what will it take. As Trump was unloading on Reiner, James Woods, probably the most outspoken Trump supporter in Hollywood, lovingly remembered Reiner as a “godsend in my life” who saved his acting career when it was at a low point 30 years ago.
“I think Rob Reiner is a great patriot,” Woods said Monday on Fox News. “Do I agree with some of, or many of, his ideas on how that patriotism should be enacted, to celebrate the America that we both love? No. But he doesn’t agree with me either, but he also respects my patriotism.” Woods is right, but how that spirit of mutual respect and good faith can be revived under a man like Trump is a question he and the rest of the president’s supporters might helpfully ask of themselves.
The Reiner murders took place on the same weekend that an assailant, still at large, murdered two students at Brown University, and when an antisemitic massacre at Bondi Beach in Sydney, Australia, gave every Jew in America a pit-of-our-stomachs sense that something like it may soon happen here again, as it did in Pittsburgh seven years ago. It’s been only three months since Charlie Kirk was shot in cold blood in Utah, and barely a year since the health care executive Brian Thompson was murdered in Manhattan by an alleged assailant who is now a folk hero to the deranged reaches of the left.
This is not a country on the cusp of its “Golden Age,” to quote the president, except in the sense that gold futures are near a record high as a hedge against inflation. It’s a country that feels like a train coming off the rails, led by a driver whose own derangement was again laid bare in that contemptible assault on the Reiners, may their memories be for a blessing.
Happy Hanukkah, I guess.
 
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Kieran

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I'm confused, if she was a "watcher" (correct me if I'm wrong), wouldn't that have made her supportive of the process? I haven't paid that much attention, so please excuse me if I got that wrong
I imagine that when she said she’s a “watcher” that she was “watching” to make sure that they did their work in a way that she’d approve of, and that’s why she ended up in a heap on the floor…
 

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I imagine that when she said she’s a “watcher” that she was “watching” to make sure that they did their work in a way that she’d approve of, and that’s why she ended up in a heap on the floor…
ah ok. For some reason I thought citizens were being engaged to monitor potential illegal immigrants, and she was one of them
 
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ah ok. For some reason I thought citizens were being engaged to monitor potential illegal immigrants, and she was one of them
That actually would have been an idea that might make her productive, but no, they hate Republicans so she was helping with that instead..
 
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Moxie

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I don't actually believe Trump wants to go to war, say anything about the man, but war is not something he seems to have any tolerance for. It's his one redeeming quality. I do believe however that he'll continue to use the Venezuelan situation as a distraction from his domestic woes. As a Republican lawmaker pointed out, why not go after the Mexican cartels who are far more complicit regarding fentanyl than Venezuela is.
I know that's supposed to be his MO, and the MAGA stance, which is much more isolationist, but he's sure doing a lot of saber rattling against Venezuela. And he's sent a lot of firepower down there. As a mere "distraction," it's certainly an expensive one, (monetarily; in human lives, which have been spilled potentially illegally; and potentially politically.) And not likely that effective...people here are still focused on their pocketbooks and their healthcare. For those who are paying attention, they know that Venezuela is the least of our problems in the drug wars. For those who aren't, this is more likely to become a problem for him, as they could see it as against his promises.

All most people can think is that he'd like to control their oil.

And where is he going with this idea that fentanyl is a WMD?
 

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I agree, even if I am not much of a fan of the "why this if so and so is more important" argument. Everything is a trade off so there _might_ be reasons behind any given choice that justify it. Having said that, I agree that Trump is a self-centered ignorant who cannot do anything right even in the few cases he is on the right side of the argument.

I have zero sympathy for the Maduro regime. They simply and brazenly stole the election. For the ones who do not remember, they simply got the ballot boxes, took a look and said: "we won, trust us". So whatever excuse Trump has for going after them is good enough, and that includes "I don't like guys with moustaches".
I also have no sympathy for Maduro, but Trump has said nothing about the stolen election there, or righting that wrong. Whatever excuse Trump is using may be enough for you, but it's not enough for me.
The "weapons of mass destruction" argument is actually a good one, if anyone in this administration were able to sustain a debate. @Moxie , you can focus on the effect and not the intent. If someone would want to explode an H bomb in the US for some weird random reason, it is still a weapon of mass destruction. At the very least you are not giving a shit about the consequences. It is the same about the boats, if Trump were careful or intelligent enough to create a new branch of military and/or a new federal agency, something hybrid with a lot of firepower and focused on drugs, and if they actually captured someone (even if they would put them away forever for some shady reason), he could do exactly the same things without giving his opposition so many arguments (but maybe he counted on the fact that his opposition would stick to the fisherman argument, which is the fastest way to lose this very winnable argument).
Here you are losing me a bit. And H bomb WOULD be an actual weapon of mass destruction. Fentanyl is not the same thing. A drug war is not something you can bomb out of the water, since it's also a drug addiction problem. (Not to mention that Venezuela is no big player in supplying drugs to the US.) I have yet to hear one thing out of Trump proposing ways to combat the addiction crisis in this country. Though by taking money away from Medicaid, he's making it even harder for addicts to get help.

There can be no such thing as a new agency with firepower, or a new branch of the military to dedicate itself to this work. Whatever you call it, military style force borders on acts of war, which is what is happening in Venezuela. Only Congress has the power to declare war. As with many things, Trump is testing the power of the executive to the breaking point.
In short, I can make some mental gymnastics and see a logic behind his disruptive approach to politics. But even if that is the case, he is still incompetent to transform it into action. He is lucky his opposition is extremely stupid and incapable to talk to his base, and that includes most late night shows hosts. Trump is not the only one stuck in an echo chamber, but he seems to be the only one to know that.
Trump is the last one to know he's stuck in an echo chamber, believe me. And don't turn yourself too far inside out to make sense of his disruptiveness, even though I am asking for suggestions. But you do have to stick with simple. He's not a complicated man. I'd say he's interested in Venezuela because they have a lot of oil. As to regime change there, remember that the US efforts at that on your continent have rarely or never gone well.
 

Moxie

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What a colossal prick!
Nah, not according to rumor. And anyway, if that were true, he wouldn't feel the need to be compensating all the time, such as by changing the name of the Kennedy Center. :lulz1:
 
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mrzz

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Breaking: all newborns in US soil shall be named "Trump", effective immediatelly.

Is up to the parents to decide if Trump is to be used as a first name, middle name or surname. It cannot be used as a title (for example, John Doe the Trump). Middle names that form phrases like "Donal Trump the Greatest US President of All Times Smith" are allowed. Phrases like "Donald Trump Is a Good President Johnson" are not allowed. Attempt to register names like "Donald Trump Is a Shitty President Taylor" are punishable by death.

Is up to parents to also add "Trumpson" to any given name, like, for example: John Trumpson Trump. "Trumpson" alone is no substitute for Trump. There is no substitute for Trump.

To avoid confusion, the use of "Trump" as both first name and surname is discouraged. In that case, a middle name should be adopdet, like "Trump J. Trump".
 
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Moxie

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Breaking: all newborns in US soil shall be named "Trump", effective immediatelly.

Is up to the parents to decide if Trump is to be used as a first name, middle name or surname. It cannot be used as a title (for example, John Doe the Trump). Middle names that form phrases like "Donal Trump the Greatest US President of All Times Smith" are allowed. Phrases like "Donald Trump Is a Good President Johnson" are not allowed. Attempt to register names like "Donald Trump Is a Shitty President Taylor" are punishable by death.

Is up to parents to also add "Trumpson" to any given name, like, for example: John Trumpson Trump. "Trumpson" alone is no substitute for Trump. There is no substitute for Trump.

To avoid confusion, the use of "Trump" as both first name and surname is discouraged. In that case, a middle name should be adopdet, like "Trump J. Trump".
Oh, please don't give him any ideas! Next thing you know, it with be The Trump Pacific Ocean, and he'll get a cut when anyone swims in it or surfs it.
 
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mrzz

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I also have no sympathy for Maduro, but Trump has said nothing about the stolen election there, or righting that wrong. Whatever excuse Trump is using may be enough for you, but it's not enough for me.

The first part is one of my points. Trump keeps missing oportunities to justify his actions rationally, he simply ignored the best argument he has to mess with Venezuela. I understand that you and I might have different thresholds on this one. For me this is foreign affairs, for you is possibility of your country entering a war. What I say is that I wish all of you Americans always had this kind of scrupuluous...

And H bomb WOULD be an actual weapon of mass destruction. Fentanyl is not the same thing.

I know they are not the same thing (kind of hard to miss that). The point I am saying that it is possible make is to focus on the end result. How many people are killed by the amount of fentanil that enter the US in one year? According to the NIH, seems like around 75.000 thousand people. Now, if someone would explode a bomb in the US and kill 75.000 people, you would call that bomb a weapon of mass destruction. This is, politically speaking, a good enough rationale.

But, yes, I KNOW they are not the same thing, there are a lot of fine points and distinctions that you can make (specially if someone is advocating for the ones who traffic fentanyl, by the way). My point is that the political argument is at the very least defendable, but again Trump is incapable of doing it in minimaly coherent way.

There can be no such thing as a new agency with firepower, or a new branch of the military to dedicate itself to this work. Whatever you call it, military style force borders on acts of war, which is what is happening in Venezuela. Only Congress has the power to declare war. As with many things, Trump is testing the power of the executive to the breaking point.

Army, navy, air force and the marines were created by god, neither were FBI and other agencies. What Trump stumbled upon is the discrepancy and anacronism between nation-states internal organization and the ever evolving geopolitical context. Nation-states adapt to that. International law has thousands of loopholes to explore. Trump, again, missed an oportunity to do exactly what he wanted in a more, let us say, elegant or politically defendable way.

Trump is the last one to know he's stuck in an echo chamber, believe me. And don't turn yourself too far inside out to make sense of his disruptiveness, even though I am asking for suggestions. But you do have to stick with simple. He's not a complicated man. I'd say he's interested in Venezuela because they have a lot of oil. As to regime change there, remember that the US efforts at that on your continent have rarely or never gone well.

We disagree on the echo chamber. Trump directs his words to his base, even the vocabulary he uses is suited to them (and only to them). He even doesn't seem to bother that this base is shrinking by the day. It would take an institutionalization level psychiatric pacient to believe otherwise. But, as I said, I think he will not end his term, and this could be a path to it (mental incapacity).

By the way, US efforts at regime change everywhere in the world rarely go well, regardless if they are justifiable or not.
 
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Kieran

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Breaking: all newborns in US soil shall be named "Trump", effective immediatelly.

Is up to the parents to decide if Trump is to be used as a first name, middle name or surname. It cannot be used as a title (for example, John Doe the Trump). Middle names that form phrases like "Donal Trump the Greatest US President of All Times Smith" are allowed. Phrases like "Donald Trump Is a Good President Johnson" are not allowed. Attempt to register names like "Donald Trump Is a Shitty President Taylor" are punishable by death.

Is up to parents to also add "Trumpson" to any given name, like, for example: John Trumpson Trump. "Trumpson" alone is no substitute for Trump. There is no substitute for Trump.

To avoid confusion, the use of "Trump" as both first name and surname is discouraged. In that case, a middle name should be adopdet, like "Trump J. Trump".
:lulz1::clap::clap:


Or “Trump T. Trump..”
 
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Kieran

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I know they are not the same thing (kind of hard to miss that). The point I am saying that it is possible make is to focus on the end result. How many people are killed by the amount of fentanil that enter the US in one year? According to the NIH, seems like around 75.000 thousand people. Now, if someone would explode a bomb in the US and kill 75.000 people, you would call that bomb a weapon of mass destruction. This is, politically speaking, a good enough rationale.

But, yes, I KNOW they are not the same thing, there are a lot of fine points and distinctions that you can make (specially if someone is advocating for the ones who traffic fentanyl, by the way). My point is that the political argument is at the very least defendable, but again Trump is incapable of doing it in minimaly coherent way.
That’s what I thought as well. Fentanyl is a huge killer. Imagine if a democrat president went on a war against diabetes, or Covid, or AIDS, or any disease that causes mass destruction, the reason why would be easily understood and in fact they’d be loudly supported in their goal by the base.

And fentanyl is certainly a weapon that’s weakening American society, whether we want to call it that or not. It’s not just an innocent virus or eating disorder.
 

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I know they are not the same thing (kind of hard to miss that). The point I am saying that it is possible make is to focus on the end result. How many people are killed by the amount of fentanil that enter the US in one year? According to the NIH, seems like around 75.000 thousand people. Now, if someone would explode a bomb in the US and kill 75.000 people, you would call that bomb a weapon of mass destruction. This is, politically speaking, a good enough rationale.

But, yes, I KNOW they are not the same thing, there are a lot of fine points and distinctions that you can make (specially if someone is advocating for the ones who traffic fentanyl, by the way). My point is that the political argument is at the very least defendable, but again Trump is incapable of doing it in minimaly coherent way.
wouldn't the right focus be either China or Mexico if they're genuinely concerned about drugs of mass destruction though? That's the bit that's messed up about all of this
 
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