US Politics Thread

Federberg

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I'd say he's interested in Venezuela because they have a lot of oil. As to regime change there, remember that the US efforts at that on your continent have rarely or never gone well.
If Rubio is driving this from behind the scenes then he's probably thinking about the Noriega template - grab him, leave the country and move on. But the oil thing is what could cost Trump everything. It's one thing to grab Maduro and put him in jail, for what I don't know, as it's not clear he's broken any US laws. But if Trump tries to go for the oil, then the US has to be involved on the ground. One of the most consistent things about his base is they want no foreign adventures. He's literally putting the rope on his own neck!

I was listening to a geopolitical podcast the other day, and they made the point that Trump's foreign policy seems to be a throwback to the Great Powers era. In this case his thinking seems to be thinking that Russia controls Europe, China controls Asia and America focusses on the Western hemisphere. If that's his thinking then it's beyond stupid. First of all Ukraine is showing that Russia controls nothing, Germany/EU will dominate Europe as his betrayal of NATO is actually forcing Germany to re-militarise at breakneck speed. Meanwhile in Asia Japan and Korea are getting closer, this new PM in Japan has already openly talked about defending Taiwan. What Trump seems not to understand is that Germany, Japan and Korea can build nuclear weapons in an instant. Trump's legacy will be the exact opposite of what he claims to want. I can't understand how he can be this monumentally dumb!
 
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mrzz

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wouldn't the right focus be either China or Mexico if they're genuinely concerned about drugs of mass destruction though? That's the bit that's messed up about all of this
Yes. But again, if Trump had more finesse he could easily navigate around that issue. All you need is a plan, at least on paper. He simply doesn't give a crap.
 
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Moxie

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The first part is one of my points. Trump keeps missing oportunities to justify his actions rationally, he simply ignored the best argument he has to mess with Venezuela. I understand that you and I might have different thresholds on this one. For me this is foreign affairs, for you is possibility of your country entering a war. What I say is that I wish all of you Americans always had this kind of scrupuluous...
Ok, now I get it. He could have focused on the elections and Maduro's illegitimacy, but that would be against the MAGA creed. Even though it might do some good. But, he's pretending to fight the drug war, for the sake of Americans, when I guess what he really wants is control of their oil?

I appreciate your saying that we look at this from different places.
I know they are not the same thing (kind of hard to miss that). The point I am saying that it is possible make is to focus on the end result. How many people are killed by the amount of fentanil that enter the US in one year? According to the NIH, seems like around 75.000 thousand people. Now, if someone would explode a bomb in the US and kill 75.000 people, you would call that bomb a weapon of mass destruction. This is, politically speaking, a good enough rationale.

But, yes, I KNOW they are not the same thing, there are a lot of fine points and distinctions that you can make (specially if someone is advocating for the ones who traffic fentanyl, by the way). My point is that the political argument is at the very least defendable, but again Trump is incapable of doing it in minimaly coherent way.
I still disagree with you that fentanyl is in any way a weapon of mass destruction, though I won't spend a lot of time arguing the point, because I think you are making the intellectual argument, dispassionately. But if you drop a bomb, it kills indiscriminately. In the case of drugs, you only kill people who chose to take them. They are not completely passive victims. Now, in the early days, people were being killed because they didn't know what they were taking, and people who did know were unaware of how powerful it was. Now they know, and take it anyway. I am not blaming addicts. They have a disease.

You are right to say that Trump doesn't know how to make a coherent foreign policy argument out of this, whatever his ultimate objective is. I don't think in most cases that you can argue that the country, i.e., the leader of the government is responsible for the drug trade that comes out of it. But Trump makes no distinction. And he does make drugs his argument for all of this saber rattling towards Venezuela. And, as @Federberg rightly points out, above, the fentanyl comes mainly from/through China and Mexico.
Army, navy, air force and the marines were created by god, neither were FBI and other agencies. What Trump stumbled upon is the discrepancy and anacronism between nation-states internal organization and the ever evolving geopolitical context. Nation-states adapt to that. International law has thousands of loopholes to explore. Trump, again, missed an oportunity to do exactly what he wanted in a more, let us say, elegant or politically defendable way.
I'm still working this one out. I'm sure you're right about International law, and the anachronism of the old nation-state boundaries. However, we have our own laws in this country about their use, and Trump is pushing hard against them.
We disagree on the echo chamber. Trump directs his words to his base, even the vocabulary he uses is suited to them (and only to them). He even doesn't seem to bother that this base is shrinking by the day. It would take an institutionalization level psychiatric pacient to believe otherwise. But, as I said, I think he will not end his term, and this could be a path to it (mental incapacity).

By the way, US efforts at regime change everywhere in the world rarely go well, regardless if they are justifiable or not.
I see your point now about Trump understanding he's in an echo chamber. As you said, he speaks only to his base, and thinks nothing of denigrating everyone else. And yes, that base is shrinking. It will be part of his undoing, at least in terms of popularity. It already is. And yes, people are beginning to question his mental stability, and by "beginning," I mean those not only who have always opposed him.

To you point about predicting that Trump won't leave office, an interesting thing happened yesterday. Charlie Kirk's wife, Ericka, who now leads his movement, Turning Points USA, has endorsed Vance for President in 2028. Even though Vance has yet to declare. And now, Marco Rubio has said that he won't run if Vance does. This is a huge early sign that the Republicans will coalesce around Vance. As Trump's poll numbers and grasp of reality slip, and Republicans are beginning to defy him, it will make it increasingly difficult for him to have the support to rewrite the Constitution. Which he would have to do to stand for a 3rd term. Or even declare Martial Law and refuse to leave office. Three years is a long time, but it's a solid sign that the Republicans/MAGA is readying itself for the post-Trump era.
 
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Moxie

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That’s what I thought as well. Fentanyl is a huge killer. Imagine if a democrat president went on a war against diabetes, or Covid, or AIDS, or any disease that causes mass destruction, the reason why would be easily understood and in fact they’d be loudly supported in their goal by the base.

And fentanyl is certainly a weapon that’s weakening American society, whether we want to call it that or not. It’s not just an innocent virus or eating disorder.
Actually, we declared a "war on drugs" in the Nixon era, I think, which escalated in the Reagan years. Though the "war" was primarily internal. Trump, to his credit, went after a covid vaccine in an effort he called "Operation Warp Speed," I think, and rolled out a vaccine in record time. The reaction to AIDS was notoriously slow, (also under Reagan.) Obama then Biden tried to make a war on Cancer, but it got defunded by the Republicans. And now, Trump has decimated funding for biomedical research in the US, the (previously) leading country on that. He's probably set back cancer research by years, if not decades. So much for wars on health issues. Of which drug addiction is one.

Fentanyl is certainly a killer drug. But in what way is it a weapon? Are the Chinese and Mexican governments deliberately turning a blind eye to production and export specifically to kill Americans? As I mentioned to Mrzz above, Trump conflates states with drug cartels. That confuses the issue. You can't just make drugs an "evil" or a "weapon." If you focus on the drugs, you're missing the forest for the trees. The problem is drug addiction, and how we deal with the disease that it is.

It should also be remembered that the opioid crisis, as we live with it now, is home grown. And it started with a legal drug called OxyContin. Or Oxycodone. And fentanyl. Perdue Pharma pushed drugs on people, some only trying to deal with legitimate pain, to the point of addiction. They were promised pain relief without the addictive qualities of natural opioids. Oh, how wrong they were.

I would say not just fentanyl, but the entire opioid crisis is weakening our society. Entire towns in the heartland have been lost to it, which is also about losing union jobs in manufacturing. But Trump is going about it all wrong. And you're falling for it. It's not a weapon of mass destruction. It's a source that feeds a deeper problem. Addiction is one of the problems. Which Trump never addresses. Another one is hopelessness, and lack of work. Trump insists his tariffs with bring work back to the US, but that's a slow process. What his tariffs do, though, is make things more expensive. He's not addressing the problems for the people he promised to champion.
 

Moxie

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If Rubio is driving this from behind the scenes then he's probably thinking about the Noriega template - grab him, leave the country and move on. But the oil thing is what could cost Trump everything. It's one thing to grab Maduro and put him in jail, for what I don't know, as it's not clear he's broken any US laws. But if Trump tries to go for the oil, then the US has to be involved on the ground. One of the most consistent things about his base is they want no foreign adventures. He's literally putting the rope on his own neck!

I was listening to a geopolitical podcast the other day, and they made the point that Trump's foreign policy seems to be a throwback to the Great Powers era. In this case his thinking seems to be thinking that Russia controls Europe, China controls Asia and America focusses on the Western hemisphere. If that's his thinking then it's beyond stupid. First of all Ukraine is showing that Russia controls nothing, Germany/EU will dominate Europe as his betrayal of NATO is actually forcing Germany to re-militarise at breakneck speed. Meanwhile in Asia Japan and Korea are getting closer, this new PM in Japan has already openly talked about defending Taiwan. What Trump seems not to understand is that Germany, Japan and Korea can build nuclear weapons in an instant. Trump's legacy will be the exact opposite of what he claims to want. I can't understand how he can be this monumentally dumb!
I don't know if we heard the same podcast, or if it's just something people are beginning to talk about, but I appreciate you synopsizing it here. I couldn't figure out how to do it, in a brief post. The notion of the US, Russia and China dividing up and controlling their own areas, and leaving the rest to the others. Indeed it sounds like a terrible idea.
 
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Federberg

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But, he's pretending to fight the drug war, for the sake of Americans, when I guess what he really wants is control of their oil?
it might be more nuanced than that actually... it's not so much for control of Venezuelan oil, but rather to shut down the supply of Venezuelan oil into global markets. Crude oil prices are getting below the threshold where it's economical for Shale producers in the US to make money. If Trump can successfully embargo Venezuelan crude that would support oil prices. Ironically as far as Trump is concerned the Ukrainians are actually doing god's work with their kinetic sanctions on Russia's oil and gas industry.
 
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Moxie

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it might be more nuanced than that actually... it's not so much for control of Venezuelan oil, but rather to shut down the supply of Venezuelan oil into global markets. Crude oil prices are getting below the threshold where it's economical for Shale producers in the US to make money. If Trump can successfully embargo Venezuelan crude that would support oil prices. Ironically as far as Trump is concerned the Ukrainians are actually doing god's work with their kinetic sanctions on Russia's oil and gas industry.
That's interesting, but isn't that a narrow ambition for so much political risk? How many people does that really help?
 

Moxie

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Breaking: all newborns in US soil shall be named "Trump", effective immediatelly.

Is up to the parents to decide if Trump is to be used as a first name, middle name or surname. It cannot be used as a title (for example, John Doe the Trump). Middle names that form phrases like "Donal Trump the Greatest US President of All Times Smith" are allowed. Phrases like "Donald Trump Is a Good President Johnson" are not allowed. Attempt to register names like "Donald Trump Is a Shitty President Taylor" are punishable by death.

Is up to parents to also add "Trumpson" to any given name, like, for example: John Trumpson Trump. "Trumpson" alone is no substitute for Trump. There is no substitute for Trump.

To avoid confusion, the use of "Trump" as both first name and surname is discouraged. In that case, a middle name should be adopdet, like "Trump J. Trump".
Somebody stole your idea.

601223998_1182444384013357_1896808674051475366_n.jpg
 
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Kieran

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I have to say, people who call themselves “activists” are both dangerous and stupid. This girl is another self-styled watcher of law enforcement officers doing their job. I hoped the video would last longer and we’d see her ripped from her car:

 

Federberg

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That's interesting, but isn't that a narrow ambition for so much political risk? How many people does that really help?
his rich friends and donors. Does anyone else matter with this guy?
 

Federberg

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I have to say, people who call themselves “activists” are both dangerous and stupid. This girl is another self-styled watcher of law enforcement officers doing their job. I hoped the video would last longer and we’d see her ripped from her car:


it's the stupidity that bothers me. The politics is already bad for Trump, why do this? Let him own it and use the unpopularity to get your party into power. They're so in their own bubble they don't seem to realise that their participation in stuff like this could end up working against their own objectives! Entitlement and self promotion over smarts imho... blows my mind that they don't understand how annoying they are to the average person :face-with-tears-of-joy:
 
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Kieran

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it's the stupidity that bothers me. The politics is already bad for Trump, why do this? Let him own it and use the unpopularity to get your party into power. They're so in their own bubble they don't seem to realise that their participation in stuff like this could end up working against their own objectives! Entitlement and self promotion over smarts imho... blows my mind that they don't understand how annoying they are to the average person :face-with-tears-of-joy:
Annoying and hypocritical. Total muppets..
 
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mrzz

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I have to say, people who call themselves “activists” are both dangerous and stupid. This girl is another self-styled watcher of law enforcement officers doing their job. I hoped the video would last longer and we’d see her ripped from her car:


This guy, as usual, makes a lot of sense.
 
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Kieran

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This is incredible. I like when the agents shoved them aside but these fifth columnists should be dragged off to prison and never seen again:

 

Moxie

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his rich friends and donors. Does anyone else matter with this guy?
No, for sure. But don't tell me he's doing it to distract people from the economy and healthcare, then. Or, is he just hoping that's a side-benefit?

Maybe he seriously does not care about his numbers, or how the midterms go, or if the MAGA party loses in 2028, if he's really resigned to being out. Just get as much money as he can for himself, his family, his brand, and his friends. And put his name on as many things as he can before he's out of office. Gilding the turd.

And it may be that he really does just have the attention span of a gnat, as it seems, and there's not much of a great plan, beyond the above. Do you think he's losing his marbles?
 

Moxie

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This guy, as usual, makes a lot of sense.
Except when he agrees with the idea that the cops can smash her window and haul her through it. That would be called excessive force, if all she's doing is following an ICE car. (Which I agree is stupid. That kid seems to be "playing at protesting." Not everyone who watches is.)
 

Moxie

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This is incredible. I like when the agents shoved them aside but these fifth columnists should be dragged off to prison and never seen again:
I thought you were against that kind of fascistic behavior. Never seen again? I'm sure you meant it as an exaggeration, but be careful what you ask for.
 

Kieran

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I thought you were against that kind of fascistic behavior. Never seen again? I'm sure you meant it as an exaggeration, but be careful what you ask for.
Here they are again. Traitors in your midst. The left. The democrats. The ones who didn’t do things like this when Obama was in charge.

The ones who don’t give a f*ck about what‘s being done, they only care about who’s doing it, and they use this as an excuse to disrupt your country. They do similar everywhere in the west.

You should hate them, but you don’t examine them enough to hate them, because you think like them: “who’s doing it? Barack? Oh he’s cute! Wuh? Trump is doing it? Nazi!”

Fifth columnists working hard to destroy the west.

 

Federberg

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No, for sure. But don't tell me he's doing it to distract people from the economy and healthcare, then. Or, is he just hoping that's a side-benefit?

Maybe he seriously does not care about his numbers, or how the midterms go, or if the MAGA party loses in 2028, if he's really resigned to being out. Just get as much money as he can for himself, his family, his brand, and his friends. And put his name on as many things as he can before he's out of office. Gilding the turd.

And it may be that he really does just have the attention span of a gnat, as it seems, and there's not much of a great plan, beyond the above. Do you think he's losing his marbles?
I think he's not the guy he was, even a year ago. Maybe not quite Sleepy Joe, but definitely Dozy Don. I think he always has the media cycle in mind with everything he does. Unfortunately for him, the Epstein thing is like fox poo (that stuff will hang around on your shoe like you won't believe), but yes I think he's willing to try anything to change the media cycle in his favour. But I think it also meets his financial interests, I'm sure there are a few Shale producers that are contributing to the Trump fund in some way. But if you're asking me if he's thinking about the midterms or 2028? I honestly believe he would almost rather the Dems win in '28 to show that only he could do it. By then he'll be far too old to bother with, and any Democrat who goes after him will be monumentally stupid. I mean... stupid beyond belief!
 
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