Mutua Madrid Open 2017 Clay Masters

[El Dude]

Talk about sour grapes, Kieran. You sound like a Rafa fan in denial - you just can't accept that Roger has beaten him three times this year, except if Roger is cheating or possibly if Rafa wasn't playing his best. Rather typical Rafalite hubris.

 

[Kieran]

Talk about sour grapes, Kieran. You sound like a Rafa fan in denial - you just can't accept that Roger has beaten him three times this year, except if Roger is cheating or possibly if Rafa wasn't playing his best. Rather typical Rafalite hubris.

Oh buddy, I can accept it no problem, though I doubt I'm in denial. If I am, I've been there a long time. But I can't accept Fedfans casting aspersions at other players when their glasshouse is left unattended. Capisce?

Now since this is the last night of TF, why don't we try keep it salubrious and agreeable, and everyone decide now how fab was Rafa today? Did I hear you say, too fab!

 

[Front242]

Players don't get more aggressive aged 35, bro. Their bodies aren't that anymore. And taking 7 months off wouldn't leave him "well rested", it would leave him rusty. So would age. His reflexes would be even less sharp than they've been since 2012. And he played 3 five setters in 8 days in Oz. When did he ever endure so well as he is now? Answer: never. Played a long match against Berdy, but the next day he showed no ill effects against Nick. That goes to 3 hours and less than 2 days later, he's dancing round the court like an elf. Buddy, let me stay within the rules and say, "that's quite remarkable."

And by the way, this only came up because front was unwisely attacking Djoker for allegedly juicing, as if they all do it, except the oldest man in the room... :cover

No, Kieran I said they ALL take whatever they can get away with which is 100% true. Roger played Hopman Cup first so that's why he wasn't rusty btw..

It was not a long match against Berdych as the points were all short and not draining. His reflexes were sharp as a knife because (A) he was practicing very hard prior to his comeback with Pouille and (B) he got in some very useful tough matches in Hopman Cup as mentioned. And finally (C) of course you can get more aggressive at ANY age. What exactly is there to stop someone taking a crack at a return harder than usual or going for winners instead of grinding rallies lol? It's actually called common sense.

It's FUBAR, bro, you ever hear it called that?

What stops older player becoming more aggressive is age. It's quite simple, actually. They can try, but they are no longer young. That's why players retire? Because they get older? And age slows us, makes our reflexes less sharp, and makes it more difficult for us to recover from aggressive actions. Makes it harder for players to play long matches. Otherwise Sampras would still be winning Wimbledon. It's not easy to play aggressive tennis, bro. It takes it outta players. Old age is why players decline - it's not the time when they're able to just add aggression and stamina to their repertoire.

There's never been a 35 year old athlete who suddenly turned the clock back so well, and played as if they're ten years younger. Not in any sport. Unless you can name one for me?

I've said it before, Sampras' dunks were cool but it's not really seeing the big picture to be jumping and landing hard like that on hard courts for years and years and that clearly contributed to earlier than he'd have liked injuries and decline imo. He could've played a bit longer and won matches with serve alone btw. Again, there's absolutely no reason why a 35 year old can't hit 2 to 3 shots hard and end a rally. The fact that others don't is because they can't as they don't have the shot making skills. That's not Roger's fault that you have no one to compare him to. Agassi was still very good at 36 btw. It takes way less to recover from 2-3 shots and serving aces than grinding rallies so sorry but you're talking rubbish there. That's precisely why he's not out there grinding as he realizes he can't recover as fast as younger guys can. Is it really that hard to comprehend? The claim that hitting 2-3 shots and a whole bunch of aces is more taxing on the body than a long, drawn out grind fest is absolute bone fide manure and you know it.

 

[Kieran]

Is that a photo of the country road you take home, buddy? :laydownlaughing :hug

 

[Front242]

Talk about sour grapes, Kieran. You sound like a Rafa fan in denial - you just can't accept that Roger has beaten him three times this year, except if Roger is cheating or possibly if Rafa wasn't playing his best. Rather typical Rafalite hubris.

Oh buddy, I can accept it no problem, though I doubt I'm in denial. If I am, I've been there a long time. But I can't accept Fedfans casting aspersions at other players when their glasshouse is left unattended. Capisce?

Now since this is the last night of TF, why don't we try keep it salubrious and agreeable, and everyone decide now how fab was Rafa today? Did I hear you say, too fab!

For the third time, I said they ALL take stuff. "Look, you'd want to be naive to not think they ALL use whatever they can get away with legally." I merely pointed out that perhaps what he was taking was now banned and hence why he's no longer Superman. Not too far fetched. He himself has said he wants to keep improving his stamina so unless you want to believe eating carrots and grass or whatever other new fad diet he's on these days is supposed to make him an energizer bunny, then he has to come up with a new plan. Below is where I said they all take whatever they can get away with. Murray and Nadal had leaked TUEs, for example. Nothing so far on Fed, mind you. Sorry to disappoint

http://www.tennisfrontier.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=5417&pid=253642#pid253642

 

[DarthFed]

There hasn't been a huge show of endurance though from Fed. The Aussie Open was his first tournament in 7 months, naturally he was well rested. And his legs weren't really tested by Zverev after the 5 setter vs. Nishi and then he got an extra day off before the final. The only real big show of endurance was consecutive tough 3 setters vs Berd and Kyrgios.

And it's a fact that he is more aggressive with the backhand and ROS. No point denying it, that's why he has been dominating Wafa this year.

Players don't get more aggressive aged 35, bro. Their bodies aren't that anymore. And taking 7 months off wouldn't leave him "well rested", it would leave him rusty. So would age. His reflexes would be even less sharp than they've been since 2012. And he played 3 five setters in 8 days in Oz. When did he ever endure so well as he is now? Answer: never. Played a long match against Berdy, but the next day he showed no ill effects against Nick. That goes to 3 hours and less than 2 days later, he's dancing round the court like an elf. Buddy, let me stay within the rules and say, "that's quite remarkable."

And by the way, this only came up because front was unwisely attacking Djoker for allegedly juicing, as if they all do it, except the oldest man in the room... :cover

Players can and often do get more aggressive as they age, that's a mindset. Fed was more aggressive in 2011-2016 than he was in his prime but obviously major parts of his game had declined and those same parts are still in decline. It's not like Fed is moving like 2006 or even 2012 really, the problem is he is playing first-strike tennis and people are having trouble moving him around. I'd say Rafa is more aggressive now than in the past when he was allergic to the net, just spinned both 1st and 2nd serves in, and was content grinding opponents down over the course of a few hours.

And I explained how the AO scheduling and opponent worked to his advantage. He got Zverev who is a pretty average S&V player so Rodge didn't have to move or do much work to dispatch him quickly. He got an extra day off before the final and the semi vs. Stan was a pretty quick 5 setter as well. He did do well to take out a very inspired Kyrgios after surviving against Berd but remember we are talking best of 3 set matches. The match vs. Berd was barely 2 hours long if I remember correctly. And then he got a day off before the final vs. Nadal and he did look lethargic but Rafa looked quite spooked and played terribly. It was probably Fed's worst match of the tourney aside from maybe RBA in the 4th round.

 

[Kieran]

@ Front: Well, we haven't seen Federer's file yet, so don't get too cocky about it.

By the way, you never voted on how Fab Rafa was today. Too fab! Or just, Fabulous?

Seriously, he whipped the ball around a fair bit today. I thought he tensed a tad in the second, which was natural, but he handled it well. Big worries for Novak though. His issues aren't stamina, they're deeper than that. An interesting podcast today, one of the speakers made an interesting point about how players can lose enthusiasm for the game when they've been so used to winning, but then struggle to win. They also discuss prospective coaches for Nole, including Sampras, who might fit him well, given that Nole's decline is looking a lot like Pete's, once Pete had achieved more or less all the goals he'd set himself for the latter part of his career. Pete battled with motivation, coach changes etc...

 

[El Dude]

Talk about sour grapes, Kieran. You sound like a Rafa fan in denial - you just can't accept that Roger has beaten him three times this year, except if Roger is cheating or possibly if Rafa wasn't playing his best. Rather typical Rafalite hubris.

Oh buddy, I can accept it no problem, though I doubt I'm in denial. If I am, I've been there a long time. But I can't accept Fedfans casting aspersions at other players when their glasshouse is left unattended. Capisce?

Now since this is the last night of TF, why don't we try keep it salubrious and agreeable, and everyone decide now how fab was Rafa today? Did I hear you say, too fab!

I agree, Kieran, but I'm not casting aspersions at other players while my glasshouse is left unattended - you are. You are doing the same thing that you are accusing Front of.

I have never accused or even seriously speculated about whether or not ANY player is juicing. Why? Because I don't see the point of it, at least not unless there is actual legit proof.

 

[DarthFed]

Talk about sour grapes, Kieran. You sound like a Rafa fan in denial - you just can't accept that Roger has beaten him three times this year, except if Roger is cheating or possibly if Rafa wasn't playing his best. Rather typical Rafalite hubris.

Oh buddy, I can accept it no problem, though I doubt I'm in denial. If I am, I've been there a long time. But I can't accept Fedfans casting aspersions at other players when their glasshouse is left unattended. Capisce?

Now since this is the last night of TF, why don't we try keep it salubrious and agreeable, and everyone decide now how fab was Rafa today? Did I hear you say, too fab!

For the third time, I said they ALL take stuff. "Look, you'd want to be naive to not think they ALL use whatever they can get away with legally." I merely pointed out that perhaps what he was taking was now banned and hence why he's no longer Superman. Not too far fetched. He himself has said he wants to keep improving his stamina so unless you want to believe eating carrots and grass or whatever other new fad diet he's on these days is supposed to make him an energizer bunny, then he has to come up with a new plan. Below is where I said they all take whatever they can get away with. Murray and Nadal had leaked TUEs, for example. Nothing so far on Fed, mind you. Sorry to disappoint

http://www.tennisfrontier.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=5417&pid=253642#pid253642

Murray had leaked TUE's too? I thought it was just Nadal and the William sisters?

Poor Wafa had them in 2009 and 2012 right before his best seasons ever on tour. I'm sure Mats Wilander's dumbass doesn't consider that "legal cheating"

 

[DarthFed]

@ Front: Well, we haven't seen Federer's file yet, so don't get too cocky about it.

By the way, you never voted on how Fab Rafa was today. Too fab! Or just, Fabulous?

Seriously, he whipped the ball around a fair bit today. I thought he tensed a tad in the second, which was natural, but he handled it well. Big worries for Novak though. His issues aren't stamina, they're deeper than that. An interesting podcast today, one of the speakers made an interesting point about how players can lose enthusiasm for the game when they've been so used to winning, but then struggle to win. They also discuss prospective coaches for Nole, including Sampras, who might fit him well, given that Nole's decline is looking a lot like Pete's, once Pete had achieved more or less all the goals he'd set himself for the latter part of his career. Pete battled with motivation, coach changes etc...

If there was a file of Fed taking TUE's the Russian hackers would've leaked them. I don't think they have a ton of love for the Swiss or anyone but their own.

 

[Kieran]

TUE's aren't illegal. In fact, they're legal. uzzled

 

[Front242]

@ Front: Well, we haven't seen Federer's file yet, so don't get too cocky about it.

By the way, you never voted on how Fab Rafa was today. Too fab! Or just, Fabulous?

Seriously, he whipped the ball around a fair bit today. I thought he tensed a tad in the second, which was natural, but he handled it well. Big worries for Novak though. His issues aren't stamina, they're deeper than that. An interesting podcast today, one of the speakers made an interesting point about how players can lose enthusiasm for the game when they've been so used to winning, but then struggle to win. They also discuss prospective coaches for Nole, including Sampras, who might fit him well, given that Nole's decline is looking a lot like Pete's, once Pete had achieved more or less all the goals he'd set himself for the latter part of his career. Pete battled with motivation, coach changes etc...

Said many times earlier he played great. Novak was pretty damn appalling in set 1 though which made him look a lot better than he was but definitely impressive all the same. Thiem will likely score more games than Novak did today. 6 games is the score to beat. Should get 7 anyway I reckon.

 

[DarthFed]

TUE's aren't illegal. In fact, they're legal. uzzled

Yes, which is absolutely ridiculous, no?

 

[Front242]

TUE's aren't illegal. In fact, they're legal. uzzled

That was 100% my point which you missed :cover I said they ALL take whatever they can get away with. I don't agree with TUEs one bit but it proves my point as I said. They all do whatever they can to get an edge.

 

[Kieran]

@ Front: Well, we haven't seen Federer's file yet, so don't get too cocky about it.

By the way, you never voted on how Fab Rafa was today. Too fab! Or just, Fabulous?

Seriously, he whipped the ball around a fair bit today. I thought he tensed a tad in the second, which was natural, but he handled it well. Big worries for Novak though. His issues aren't stamina, they're deeper than that. An interesting podcast today, one of the speakers made an interesting point about how players can lose enthusiasm for the game when they've been so used to winning, but then struggle to win. They also discuss prospective coaches for Nole, including Sampras, who might fit him well, given that Nole's decline is looking a lot like Pete's, once Pete had achieved more or less all the goals he'd set himself for the latter part of his career. Pete battled with motivation, coach changes etc...

Said many times earlier he played great. Novak was pretty damn appalling in set 1 though which made him look a lot better than he was but definitely impressive all the same. Thiem will likely score more games than Novak did today. 6 games is the score to beat. Should get 7 anyway I reckon.

Well, Thiem will be looking to check his own pulse and see has he progressed since Monte Carlo, but he's at a disadvantage, playing so late tonight. I hope it's Thiem though, he's a legit prospect, and that's who we want to see at this level. I think he'd do better than you're giving him credit for...8 games? :snicker

 

[Kieran]

TUE's aren't illegal. In fact, they're legal. uzzled

Yes, which is absolutely ridiculous, no?

No, it's a sign of a sensible governing of the sport!

How fab was Rafa today, brother? I want to see you say one nice thing about young Ralph before the shutters come down on TF. Go ahead punk, make my day!

 

[Front242]

TUEs should 100% not be allowed, especially retroactive ones. The ITF, ATP and WTA should be ashamed of themselves but it is what is, they're not illegal.

 

[DarthFed]

^ How is it sensible? If someone is unfit to play they shouldn't be allowed to take banned substances to help them "feel well" Might as well have some "special sauce" available at the chairs for when a player starts to feel a bit fatigued during the match.

The only "fabulous" Rafa is a defeated one brotha. I thought you knew

 

[El Dude]

Before herios jumps in to remind us, Thiem - at 23 years old - is hardly a "prospect." I know it is 2017 and players MIGHT be peaking later, but I think Thiem is about as good as he will ever be. There might be micro-changes, but I don't see a major breakthrough coming. But as I've said before, the difference between him and say Tsonga/Berdych is that he'll have more chances with an aging Big Four. Poor Jo-Wilie and Berdy saw their primes completely overlapped by the Big Four. A very unfortunate time to peak.

I'm reminded of poor Guillermo Coria, who was primed to go on a Kuerten-like run as the new clay maestro before a certain young punk from Mallorca showed up. The true greats find a way to win, but the lesser and near greats, and very good players, need help from Lady Luck to get their big titles, and we'll know what a capricious one she is.

 

[Front242]

Didn't realize Thiem v Cuevas hadn't even started. That's hands down some of the worst scheduling I've seen in recent years. Final is at 4pm Madrid time tomorrow and they'll be playing till around midnight most likely. Disgraceful disadvantage. Not that either guy was going to win the final anyway, but still.