"Got better"s relative because he didn't play anyone really good except for Nadal - who apparently choked before his injury. That's not to say that Cilic couldn't beat Roger...but him playing "better" is also a question of WHO he was playing better than.
Australian Open Final 2018: Federer v Cilic
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"Got better"s relative because he didn't play anyone really good except for Nadal - who apparently choked before his injury. That's not to say that Cilic couldn't beat Roger...but him playing "better" is also a question of WHO he was playing better than.
Cilic was playing lights out, but Roger was also still tired from a 5 setter with Monfils. That's not to say he would have won that match but it was obvious that he was tired and struggling with his game, too. Cilic was almost as good the first 2 sets at Wimbledon in 2016 - but he lost that match in 5 sets because he choked. Roger's not tired from a 5-setter but I suspect he'll be tight the first few games like he was at Wimbledon. He'll definitely have to serve better than he did against Chung and in some of his other matches. Ultimately though I think he'll do to Cilic what he did to Berdych.
You kidding? AO-09?, USO-09?. Wimbledon 15? Let's leave out the "greatest match ever played." not to take credit away from Rafa.
El Dude
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So to sum up:
- Roger's A-game beats anything Cilic can throw at him
- Cilic's A-game can beat Roger at anything less than his A game
- We haven't seen Roger's A-game yet because he hasn't needed it, so it remains unclear how well he's playing because so far he's only played as well as he's needed to beat the man across court from him.
- The match will be determined by how the following two factors combine: a) How Cilic handles the pressure and thus whether or not he can play his best, and b) Whether or not Roger can bring his A-game to match Cilic's best.
Yeah, he did. That was the year Roger had mono. He's even said in the past that he sucked big time in that final and Rafa rolled him - and that it affected how he played the first 2 sets of the 2008 Wimbledon final.
GameSetAndMath
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Fed has not lost a set so far. I don't think he will do so in the final as well. However, I must admit that
I am not so confident about my number of sets prediction, although I am very confident about the final result.
Sure, Cilic played lights out in USO'14. But, I don't think it is a repeatable experiment.
Unlike some other folks, I don't think Fed was physically tired during that USO match. But, I do think
Fed was mentally tired; however, that was not the primary cause of his loss. I think he would have lost
that day as it was an extraordinary performance by Cilic (kind of reminded me of Rosol taking out Rafa at
Wimbledon with booming serve and lights out game).
I voted for Fed in three. But, even if Cilic wins a set or two, I do believe the choker in him will
make an appearance soon.
I think the only way Cilic can win this match is in straight sets with a repeat of lights out performance.
If it is anything other than lights out tennis, Fed will find a way to win and/or Cilic will find a way to
choke (see W'16).
I am not so confident about my number of sets prediction, although I am very confident about the final result.
Sure, Cilic played lights out in USO'14. But, I don't think it is a repeatable experiment.
Unlike some other folks, I don't think Fed was physically tired during that USO match. But, I do think
Fed was mentally tired; however, that was not the primary cause of his loss. I think he would have lost
that day as it was an extraordinary performance by Cilic (kind of reminded me of Rosol taking out Rafa at
Wimbledon with booming serve and lights out game).
I voted for Fed in three. But, even if Cilic wins a set or two, I do believe the choker in him will
make an appearance soon.
I think the only way Cilic can win this match is in straight sets with a repeat of lights out performance.
If it is anything other than lights out tennis, Fed will find a way to win and/or Cilic will find a way to
choke (see W'16).
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Roger seems to be playing with supreme confidence right now... I'm not overly worried about Cilic but he's always dangerous. Marin has to win the first set IMO to have a chance in this match.
Moxie
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Surely it had nothing to do with the fact that Rafa was playing some of the highest tennis of his career through that clay season. Oh, right, Roger had mono, and was shite. Kids...I thought you guys were the ones against excuses. At least @lob is "not taking credit away from Rafa."
Moxie
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Good on ya, @GameSetAndMath, for saying that. I also don't think Roger could have won that particular match v. Cilic at the USO, and not because he was tired. It was very high-level Cilic...probably highest ever. I also agree with you that it's unlikely he replicates it.
Ok fed lied, you know the best. He must have made it up with doctors diagnosis, your word we should take as authority.Surely it had nothing to do with the fact that Rafa was playing some of the highest tennis of his career through that clay season. Oh, right, Roger had mono, and was shite. Kids...I thought you guys were the ones against excuses. At least @lob is "not taking credit away from Rafa."
Goes two ways, Cilic played his best and Fed didn’t....or his best level back then wasn’t enough anyway. But we have seen a few streaky players win the big ones already, Wawrinka and Safin come to mind too.
Moxie
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I mostly agree, but I don't think Federer even was allowed to play his best in that particular match. Cilic took the racquet out of his hand and I don't think it mattered what his SF was like, as GSM very fairly said. Too many unreturnables.
Moxie
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You've missed the point there, by a mile. In fairness, you haven't been around a lot, so maybe missed the undercurrent, but point is that Fed fans are making excuses...something they've slagged Nadal fans on for years. Also, trying to take credit away from Nadal in one of the most consistently high levels of play in his career, or anyone's, the '08 clay season.
mrzz
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Busted, I saw the Cilic-Nadal match on its entirety. On one hand it is true that Nadal's level dropped, and that he got passive, but on the other Cilic's level simply sky-rocketed. He was letting it rip since the end of set 1, but from the middle of the second set the giant number of UFE which were happening up to then just went away. He only got better and better, and it is hard to say who is the egg and who is the chicken on that process (Nadal's level droping and Cilic's level rising). But there is no denying that he was playing extremely high level tennis in sets 4 and 5.
I would not put everything down to Nadal "choking", and even if I would, how many guys made Nadal choke, while leading a match, playing well and being world #1, in a major?
Federberg
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Surely it had nothing to do with the fact that Rafa was playing some of the highest tennis of his career through that clay season. Oh, right, Roger had mono, and was shite. Kids...I thought you guys were the ones against excuses. At least @lob is "not taking credit away from Rafa."
Lol! You keep trying this. It's not an excuse when you say someone plays badly. If you watch the match again (and remember I was there live) you'll see that Roger was pathetic. Higueras had got him to try to come over his backhand more, but it was clear he wasn't committed to it. He literally didn't know what to do. Did Rafa play well? Absolutely! He was awesome. But it doesn't change the fact that Roger was atrocious. In hindsight Higueras was right, but Roger just hadn't had enough time to believe in what he was trying to do. As for the mono... it's hilarious that you believe that was a lie, yet you want us to believe that Rafa who was running around like a jackrabbit in 09 was injured. For the record, I had always stated that the mono thing impacted Roger in so far as he was unable to work on his game (like he ALWAYS has) in the spring break. If it makes you feel better to constantly try to find equivalence between the two (and lets face it, it's less about Fedal and more about the fans), good for you. Ain't working though...
Moxie
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I've never said that I don't believe that Roger had mono. I have said the fans drag it out a bit. If you say it kept him from training effectively, I can buy some of that. But it doesn't alter the fact that the fans are making an excuse for Roger's poor play and letting it take away from Rafa. It's fine, but you don't apply that universally, do you?
Federberg
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the AntiPusher
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the Nadal fan’s last hope is Tignor’s curse,,
Nick vs Roger in the finals.. Although Wacky Nick is very popular on this board but I Never jump on his band wagon.
I expect Marin to get begin to bounce the ball and play with nervousness. He will loose in straight sets unless Roger’s 1st serve is ill..
Winter is here but the CLAY is coming
Nick vs Roger in the finals.. Although Wacky Nick is very popular on this board but I Never jump on his band wagon.
I expect Marin to get begin to bounce the ball and play with nervousness. He will loose in straight sets unless Roger’s 1st serve is ill..
Winter is here but the CLAY is coming
Moxie
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The constant Fed fan complaint is that if Nadal fans say that Rafa's knees were bad at RG in 2009, then it takes away from Soderling's great win. Here's the deal: you say that Rafa played great in RG '08 final, but Roger's play was affected by an issue that he carried into it. Now, we can't see mono, but we have Roger's word on it, at least early in the season. I say that Soderling played great, but Nadal was affected by an issue that he carried into it. Only, with Rafa's knees, anyone could see strapping. We knew he didn't play DC final due to his knees. It was widely observed that his knees gave out in the final at Rotterdam v. Murray in Feb. You say that you could see Roger was affected in the '09 final, but that you didn't see any evidence of Nadal's movement being affected in '09. However, Broken, who's a good analyst of the game and a keen observer of Nadal, explained to you recently ago how the evidence was there that Rafa wasn't moving as well.
You can see it's a pretty parallel situation, and yet you don't apply your conclusions evenhandedly.
