2025 Men's Wimbledon Championships

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Moxie

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Back to Wimbledon, I have to say that this tournament is kind of a bummer. It isn't just the upsets on their own, it is that none of the young guys are really making a mark, except for maybe Ben Shelton - who . It just feels like a clearing away for the battle we all knew would occur: Sinner vs. Djokovic, and the winner vs. Alcaraz.

That said, I don't think Jannik should take Shelton for granted. Awhile back Andy Roddick pointed out how good Shelton was relative to his experience. He didn't really start playing tennis until he was 12 years old - which is about 5 years after most other top players. He still has a rawness that, if ironed out, gives him a legit shot at the top 5. I'd say at this point, he's surpassed not only Paul but Fritz as the US's best hope for a Slam winner. I'd even go so far as to say that his future outlook is at least as good as players like Rune and Fils, maybe even Draper. I think his upside is higher than Fils and Draper, but it remains to be seen whether he can harness it.
You shouldn't be too bummed about Fonseca and Mensik...you've already reminded yourself that they're young, and are just beginning on the tour. Plus, Alcaraz was only 20 when he won it for the first time. How many comets do you expect to streak across the sky? He's still only 22...don't treat him like an old player. He's still a young guy making a mark, and so is Sinner. The future looks bright, Dude!

Interesting assessment of Shelton and the other top US guys.
 

Jelenafan

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Back to Wimbledon, I have to say that this tournament is kind of a bummer. It isn't just the upsets on their own, it is that none of the young guys are really making a mark, except for maybe Ben Shelton - who . It just feels like a clearing away for the battle we all knew would occur: Sinner vs. Djokovic, and the winner vs. Alcaraz.

That said, I don't think Jannik should take Shelton for granted. Awhile back Andy Roddick pointed out how good Shelton was relative to his experience. He didn't really start playing tennis until he was 12 years old - which is about 5 years after most other top players. He still has a rawness that, if ironed out, gives him a legit shot at the top 5. I'd say at this point, he's surpassed not only Paul but Fritz as the US's best hope for a Slam winner. I'd even go so far as to say that his future outlook is at least as good as players like Rune and Fils, maybe even Draper. I think his upside is higher than Fils and Draper, but it remains to be seen whether he can harness it.
The Lorenzo Sonego/Brandon Nagashima match was a barn burner, 5 sets including 4 tiebreakers. There were real stakes involved; People forget that a mid ranked player with the opportunity to get to a 4th round or even Qtrs in a slam is huge, setting up entries to tournaments for the rest of the year. Hell of a match.
 
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lomaha

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Thanks I realize that, apparently August will be playing challenger tournaments after Wimbledon
Well that was his plan up till now. I don't know if the points he gets and ranking he'll be after Wimbledon will give him access to better tournaments and maybe change his schedule. He definitely needs to rearrange his team. At Wimbledon he was accompanied by the Danish Davis Cup Trainor, Frederik Løchte Nielsen, but that's not a long term solution. He doesn't have a fysio or anything. It's been a crazy week for him, so only the future will tell if he can back it up in later tournaments. And there's the Davis Cup match against Spain coming up...
 

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Bad luck to Aussie Jordan Thompson who has been battling a bad back all week and had to retire in his match with Fritz
Fritz wins via retirement 61 30
 

MargaretMcAleer

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Raining again at Wimbledon so play is stopped on all outside courts
CC and Court 1 are only in action
Next match on court 1 is Jarry v Norrie
Play has now recommenced on all the outside courts
No rain has stopped play on all the outside courts again, I feel like a 'weather woman' with weather updates :)
Players warming up again on outside courts, they must be going 'insane' trying to finish their matches
 
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MargaretMcAleer

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On court 1
Cam Norrie leading Jarry 2 sets to love, 63 76(4)
BTW I dont mind Norries bhand on grass, great to watch, good technique
Jarry won the 3rd set TB 76 (7)
Norrie leads 2 sets to 1, Jarr wins the 4th set 76(5)
Jarry has made a comeback and has now leveled the match 2 sets all, thanks to the many Aces from Jarry so far in the match
Norrie comes back in the 5th set winning 6-3 and ends the dreams of Jarry at Wimbledon this year
Cam said the crowd helped him to win!
 
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lomaha

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Rublev winning a tight first set against Alcaraz... And Cam Norrie on his way to the quarters ...
 
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kskate2

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Chuck out there playing footsie w/ Hair Dude drops the opening TB. He had chances to break and serve for set. You can't give these lower ranked players a foothold especially when they have a win over you. But like @Jelenafan says, it would be really boring if his matches went according to script every time.
 
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El Dude

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Well, I was right about Rublev winning a set. I don't expect him to win anymore. Carlos often seems to do a bit of a Novak: Loses a set or three in early rounds, then tightens up. Of course it is different than Novak style, who almost seems to be feeling out his opponent - looking for weaknesses, seeing how they're playing. Carlos seems to be more erratic and unfocused, almost as if he needs the challenge to find his A game.
 
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Fiero425

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Rublev winning a tight first set against Alcaraz... And Cam Norrie on his way to the quarters ...

Amazing! Alcaraz had it; serving up 5-4 in the 1st set! The "Hair-Dude" shocked him & the world "stealing" that TB! Not like it means much! We have a long way to go! Norrie addvancing w/ "something" going on w/ Jarry! They had a big discussion at the end of their match, but shook hands repeatedly! Norrie's such an a-#ole, Heaven knows what he's done now! I'm glad that Khachanov got thru to the Qtrs.! Fritz benefitted from a retirement by "Porn-Stach!" :astonished-face::face-with-hand-over-mouth::yawningface::fearful-face::face-with-tears-of-joy:
 

MargaretMcAleer

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Order is now restored as Alcaraz leads Rublev 2 sets to 1 and has a break in the 4th set :)
 

MargaretMcAleer

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Getting back to the Jarry v Norrie match for a minute to clarify what happened at the end of the match and the discussion at the net
Jarry had a few words with Norrie because he didnt like the way how much he was bouncing the ball?
Anyway they kissed and made up :)
 

MargaretMcAleer

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BTW,
Alcaraz becomes the youngest man in the Open Era to reach 12 GS singles QFs at the age of 22 years and 56 days old
 
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El Dude

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You shouldn't be too bummed about Fonseca and Mensik...you've already reminded yourself that they're young, and are just beginning on the tour. Plus, Alcaraz was only 20 when he won it for the first time. How many comets do you expect to streak across the sky? He's still only 22...don't treat him like an old player. He's still a young guy making a mark, and so is Sinner. The future looks bright, Dude!

Interesting assessment of Shelton and the other top US guys.
Thanks. I'm not too bummed, just was hoping for a bit more from Fonseca and Mensik, and a few others. Plus, adding in the fact that Fils is hurt and Tien is playing solidly but not huge growth, and there's a sense that the "rise of young guys" is a bit premature, or at least in a slow-growth mode.

Of course taking a step back, and there's really nothing but positives about Fonseca. As I've said--probably in this thread--he's on his first run through of the tour and, I think, will take a big step forward next year when everything is a "second time," and he'll be more comfortable. I still expect great things from him and was only disappointed because the draw had opened up for him to reach the QF. For Mensik, it is a bit different. I have much lower expectations, but the level he showed in Miami made me think he was going to be something more than my initial analysis as a good second tier type, something in the range of Tsitsipas-Zverev, but with a potentially better mentality. He still could be that and more, but he hasn't followed up Miami with anything, so the disappointment likes in that.

That said, Shelton has impressed me - as I've said. While Fritz has been the top American for a few years, I think Shelton will surpass him in the next year or two and may have a better shot at a Slam. He has more explosive potential, imo.

Anyhow, Fonseca is the only young guy who I think has the potential to be mentioned in the same breath as Sinner and Alcaraz. He may never become quite as good, but I think he'll at least be a strong third best player. But I don't expect that for another couple years. I think he'll continue with more of the same for the rest of 2025, maybe pick up another 250 or 500 and finish around #30, plus or minus. Next year I think he'll have his first big surge, reaching the top 10 and winning his first big title(s). In 2027 I expect him to surge again but into the top 5 and one of the three best players in the game. That's my expected timeline, though it could vary, of course.
 
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Order of Play for Wimbledon, Day 8 Round 4, July 7, 2025

1751837455104.png
 
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El Dude

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A bit more to @Moxie:

I think the key underlying element to my feeling of disappointment and even worry is that I don't really want to go into another Big Three-type era or, in this case, Big Two. Been there, done that - and two might be even more predictable than 3/4. So I'm eager to see some guys who become good enough, if not to make it a threesome or foursome, at least soften the grade between Sincaraz and the field. During the Big Three era, I found those players interesting - but they were few and far between, with only short-lived flashes (e.g. Del Potro, Wawrinka, kinda Soderling). Guys who had periods when they rose above the "second tier." And more to the point: a feeling that more than just two or three guys were serious contenders at Slams.

The Open Era has had a variety of "sub-eras" that were configured differently. We've become accustomed to a very bifurcated, top-down environment with a small coterie of ruling elite and the rabble below, all jostling for their shot (and almost always failing).

To some extent, most of the Open Era has been like this to varying degrees. You had Laver and Rosewall to start, though this opened up quickly to include Ashe, Newcombe, and then Smith and Nastase. Then you had Connors and Borg, joined by McEnroe. As Borg faded, Lendl rose and then was joined by Wilander, Edberg, and Becker. Then Agassi and Sampras, who were, of course, followed by the Big Three.

But within that, there are variations. Looking back, I find the mid-80s to early 90s to be particularly interesting. For one, you had overlapping eras of great players: the fading of Connors and McEnroe, peak Lendl and Wilander, Edberg and Becker, and then the early years of Agassi and Sampras. Consider, for instance, the year-end top 5 in 1990: Edberg, Becker, Lendl, Agassi, Sampras. Has there ever been a better top 5, top to bottom? There have been top 5s with four ATGs, but not all five positions, as far as I can tell.

Furthermore, the gap between those guys and the field wasn't as stark as during the Big Four era. Sincaraz seem to be closer to the Big Four than other iterations, at least over the last year and a half. I suppose Novak makes it interesting, but if and when he's no longer a real contender, it is hard seeing someone emerge to at least put a seed of serious doubt. Fonseca is the best hope, and I suppose we can dream on guys like Mensik, Draper, even Fils and Shelton making things interesting.

Anyhow, the future is not written. But again, I'm just hoping for some interesting players in the mix and a new era that isn't just two guys passing Slam trophies back and forth.
 
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Moxie

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A bit more to @Moxie:

I think the key underlying element to my feeling of disappointment and even worry is that I don't really want to go into another Big Three-type era or, in this case, Big Two. Been there, done that - and two might be even more predictable than 3/4. So I'm eager to see some guys who become good enough, if not to make it a threesome or foursome, at least soften the grade between Sincaraz and the field. During the Big Three era, I found those players interesting - but they were few and far between, with only short-lived flashes (e.g. Del Potro, Wawrinka, kinda Soderling). Guys who had periods when they rose above the "second tier." And more to the point: a feeling that more than just two or three guys were serious contenders at Slams.

The Open Era has had a variety of "sub-eras" that were configured differently. We've become accustomed to a very bifurcated, top-down environment with a small coterie of ruling elite and the rabble below, all jostling for their shot (and almost always failing).

To some extent, most of the Open Era has been like this to varying degrees. You had Laver and Rosewall to start, though this opened up quickly to include Ashe, Newcombe, and then Smith and Nastase. Then you had Connors and Borg, joined by McEnroe. As Borg faded, Lendl rose and then was joined by Wilander, Edberg, and Becker. Then Agassi and Sampras, who were, of course, followed by the Big Three.

But within that, there are variations. Looking back, I find the mid-80s to early 90s to be particularly interesting. For one, you had overlapping eras of great players: the fading of Connors and McEnroe, peak Lendl and Wilander, Edberg and Becker, and then the early years of Agassi and Sampras. Consider, for instance, the year-end top 5 in 1990: Edberg, Becker, Lendl, Agassi, Sampras. Has there ever been a better top 5, top to bottom? There have been top 5s with four ATGs, but not all five positions, as far as I can tell.

Furthermore, the gap between those guys and the field wasn't as stark as during the Big Four era. Sincaraz seem to be closer to the Big Four than other iterations, at least over the last year and a half. I suppose Novak makes it interesting, but if and when he's no longer a real contender, it is hard seeing someone emerge to at least put a seed of serious doubt. Fonseca is the best hope, and I suppose we can dream on guys like Mensik, Draper, even Fils and Shelton making things interesting.

Anyhow, the future is not written. But again, I'm just hoping for some interesting players in the mix and a new era that isn't just two guys passing Slam trophies back and forth.
I actually sensed this when you said further up, the post I responded to, I think, that we were headed for the inevitable, i.e., Sinner v. Djokovic, and the winner v. Alcaraz. I thought about saying this to you, but wasn't sure how to say it, but this might just be an interim period of dominance for Sincaraz + Djokovic before he retires, and while he's still relevant. Neither Alcaraz nor Sinner has even played Fonseca OR Mensik yet. Pazienza, as the Italians say. I think some of best of the field will find ways to catch them sometimes, and make it interesting. Obviously, just basically everyone thinks Fonseca can make a threesome out of it.
 
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kskate2

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A bit more to @Moxie:

I think the key underlying element to my feeling of disappointment and even worry is that I don't really want to go into another Big Three-type era or, in this case, Big Two. Been there, done that - and two might be even more predictable than 3/4. So I'm eager to see some guys who become good enough, if not to make it a threesome or foursome, at least soften the grade between Sincaraz and the field. During the Big Three era, I found those players interesting - but they were few and far between, with only short-lived flashes (e.g. Del Potro, Wawrinka, kinda Soderling). Guys who had periods when they rose above the "second tier." And more to the point: a feeling that more than just two or three guys were serious contenders at Slams.

The Open Era has had a variety of "sub-eras" that were configured differently. We've become accustomed to a very bifurcated, top-down environment with a small coterie of ruling elite and the rabble below, all jostling for their shot (and almost always failing).

To some extent, most of the Open Era has been like this to varying degrees. You had Laver and Rosewall to start, though this opened up quickly to include Ashe, Newcombe, and then Smith and Nastase. Then you had Connors and Borg, joined by McEnroe. As Borg faded, Lendl rose and then was joined by Wilander, Edberg, and Becker. Then Agassi and Sampras, who were, of course, followed by the Big Three.

But within that, there are variations. Looking back, I find the mid-80s to early 90s to be particularly interesting. For one, you had overlapping eras of great players: the fading of Connors and McEnroe, peak Lendl and Wilander, Edberg and Becker, and then the early years of Agassi and Sampras. Consider, for instance, the year-end top 5 in 1990: Edberg, Becker, Lendl, Agassi, Sampras. Has there ever been a better top 5, top to bottom? There have been top 5s with four ATGs, but not all five positions, as far as I can tell.

Furthermore, the gap between those guys and the field wasn't as stark as during the Big Four era. Sincaraz seem to be closer to the Big Four than other iterations, at least over the last year and a half. I suppose Novak makes it interesting, but if and when he's no longer a real contender, it is hard seeing someone emerge to at least put a seed of serious doubt. Fonseca is the best hope, and I suppose we can dream on guys like Mensik, Draper, even Fils and Shelton making things interesting.

Anyhow, the future is not written. But again, I'm just hoping for some interesting players in the mix and a new era that isn't just two guys passing Slam trophies back and forth.
I believe that's where we're headed though. As Mox said (for the interim), barring a serious injury or the wrong female, it will be these 2 guys passing the buck. And God forbid something happened to Chuck, it would be Red cleaning up solo. It could take a year, more likely 2 before the field closes the gap. They both could be near double digits in slams by then. I see no one with the mental fortitude as well as the game to put together 7 matches requiring the focus and intensity needed to dethrone either one. Only ole man Djoke and I don't see him beating both back to back.
 
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