MargaretMcAleer
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atttomole
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Now it’s crystal clear. You were a Sampras fan who masqueraded as a fan of any player that beat Federer. This is understandable. No need to explain any further mate.After all these yrs. I'm still confusing peeps around here! People think Djokovic is my fave player due to how I tout his accomplishments, but it's really nothing but giving credit where credit's due! I, like most of us 20 yrs. ago were amazed & cheered the rivalry w/ Fedal when IMO, it was one-sided from the beginning! It was around this time I started weening myself off of watching men's tennis! I was actually getting bored aside from Henin making her mark as #1! I wasn't bored by Fedal matches, but the delusion was real as commentators made their matches HUGE; even when Roger was being destroyed on clay! When Novak came along, he so reminded me of Ivan Lendl who came along to halt the rivalry & dominance of McEnroe & Connors! I glommed onto him in '08 after he defeated Roger "down under!" He had a tougher time w/ Rafa, but by 2011, Novak took over their rivalry; besting Nadal in 7 straight finals in major & Masters' finals! It made me so happy since I couldn't stand the arrogance & gamesmanship of Nadal! So that may explain some confusion, but my actual faves have long since retired which is why it's so easy to skip watching the game altogether! A Few Favorites: Borg, Edberg, Navratilova, Goolagong, Hingis, Henin, & Marat Safin! I give an honorable mention to Lendl and Djokovic for doing their thing & being villainized because they broke up "the party" at the top of the ranks! I was a huge fan of Sampras an the way he played, but disillusioned by him at times!
El Dude
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You've gotta love the runs of old guys Dimitrov and Cilic. But I think the dream ends next round for Grigor (Sinner). If Cilic beats Munar, his 4R opponent (Cobolli) is also beatable, but then he likely faces Novak in the QF.
Carlos faces his first real opponent in the 4R with Rublev. I wish Andrey the best, but he shouldn't be a problem for Carlos. Andrey seems to be playing well and i suspect with surprise by winning one of the first two sets, but then get steamrolled in sets 3-4.
Carlos faces his first real opponent in the 4R with Rublev. I wish Andrey the best, but he shouldn't be a problem for Carlos. Andrey seems to be playing well and i suspect with surprise by winning one of the first two sets, but then get steamrolled in sets 3-4.
Fiero425
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OMG, you're so off! I've written extensively on the subject of where my head's been at since 1971 concerning tennis; my playing, fave players, watching & teaching, then the recordbook situation! Winning majors of any kind was far from their importance now! They were actually skipped by many top players who refused that journey "down under!" Since you reference Sampras, I'll re-iterate what s/b our mutual embarrassment proclaiming him the "All Time GOAT" after he overtook Emerson winning 2000 Wimbledon crown! He was anointed w/o a FO Final on his resume! He went over 2 yrs. w/o a win of any kind; hence the surprise when he took 2002 USO over his pigeon, Andre Agassi! It didn't bother me at all that Roger beat Pete the yr. before at Wimbledon! Back in the day it wasn't that much of a surprise when a top player dropped like a rock in the rankings! The worst this happening w/ Mats Wilander from #1 in '88 to obscurity thru the mid 90's! Federer took over soon after, skipping by Pete's 14 Majors in less than 9 yrs. winning '09 Wimbledon over his pigeon A-Rod! I was still his biggest fan! I started getting bothered w/ the faux rivalry of Fedal that was jammed down our throats! Novak came along & changed the dynamics of the ATG race forever accomplishing records unimaginable just a decade or so ago! Watchng Novak at the moment playing Kecmanovic on Centre Court! He still looks sharp at 38, playing his game embarrassing youngsters 15 yrs. his junior! 
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MargaretMcAleer
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Cilic continues his winning ways defeated Munar in 4 sets 63 36 62 64 he will play Cobolli in his next match
atttomole
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No problem my friend!! You were a Sampras fan. And as his fan, you remember he had his pigeons. Agassi and Ivanisevic. We have had pigeons in every era of tennis.
MargaretMcAleer
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August had a good run at Wimbledon, he came up against Alex who is an experienced player on the tour,
Yes he had. And he put up a great fight. Alex was just to hard for him on a day his serve didn't work as well as it did in the other matches
Kecmanovic is being killed by Novak
MargaretMcAleer
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MargaretMcAleer
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Sonego d Nakashima (29) 67(7) 76(8) 76(2) 36 76 10-3 in the super TB in a match over 5 hours!
Meaning my 3 Italians have had wins today
Forza!
Meaning my 3 Italians have had wins today
Forza!
H
He is going to play some Challenger tournaments the Danish reporters said during his match.
MargaretMcAleer
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MargaretMcAleer
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El Dude
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The Australian Open wasn't a "real" major until the mid-80s, really. I've examined this closely and while there are one or two years in the 69-82 range that were closer to the other Slams in terms of the draw, most were basically glorified ATP 500s. Laver's win in 1969 was a bit better as he had to beat Emerson, Stolle, Roche, and Gimeno. But even that was only an R32, so at most it was like a better Masters or Tour Finals. 1983-88 was stronger, but it didn't really become commensurate with the other Slams until 1989-90ish. The French Open was also a bit uneven in the 70s, but it was still pretty strong.
As for Sampras, calling him the GOAT pre-Federer is the highest form of "Slam reductionism." Didn't anyone know about Rod Laver? Pancho Gonzales? Bill Tilden? Even Ken Rosewall could give Sampras a run for the money, as far as career accomplishments.
I know, Slams are the big prize - but other records matter too, especially when considering guys who played in the professional era. Pancho's 7 World Pro Championship titles is among the more impressive records in tennis history. the Pro Tours were grueling and Pancho dominated them for seven tours in a row. While they were a very different format, each was almost a tennis season unto itself. The only thing comparable in the Open Era was the second and final year of the Tennis Championship Classic in 1971, when Laver beat 13 top players in a row - sort of like a double Slam. According to Ultimate Tennis Statistics, it is the hardest title of the Open Era.
Anyhow, I see Sampras more in a group with Borg, McEnroe and Lendl. He might be the best of the four if you want to emphasize Slams, but I'm not sure he was. All four were inner circle greats, and mostly separated from the Big Three by longevity rather than peak dominance. Borg in 78-80, Mac in 81 and 84, and Lendl in 86-87 were all more dominant than Sampras ever was. Not by a huge margin, but they all maxed at two Slam seasons, but Borg, Mac, and Lendl went "deeper" - with more big titles and titles overall, and generally better winning percentages. Jimmy Connors is a step behind these three.
So to revisit the old GOAT game, here is my latest view:
Tier 1A: The Big Three, with Novak the "top point" in the triangle, and Federer and Nadal basically equals as the bottom points.
Tier 1B: Past GOATs - Tilden, Gonzales, and Laver in chronological order. They aren't necessarily less "GOATish" as the Big Three, but played in very different contexts, too different to compare. But Laver gets the same "triangle tip" position as Novak.
Tier 2A: Inner Circle Greats - Borg, Mac, Lendl, Sampras, (Rosewall belongs here if you take his full career into account).
Tier 3: All-time Greats - Connors, Wilander, Edberg, Becker, Agassi.
Tier 4: Lesser or "Quasi-Greats" - Ashe, Newcombe, Nastase, Smith, Courier, Murray, maybe Kuerten and Hewitt, etc.
Tier 5: Near Greats (aka, Best of the Rest) - Kodes, Gerulaitis, Chang, Ivanisevic, Safin, Roddick, Del Potro, Wawrinka, Medvedev, maybe one or two others.
While I'm comfortable assigning Tilden, Gonzales, Laver as GOATs, I'm less willing to assign tiers to other past greats - Budge certainly belongs with the Inner Circle greats, but it is harder to rank Vines, Kramer, Riggs, Emerson, Cochet, Perry, Drobny, etc - let along Wilding and other pre-pro era greats.
A few players are "cuspy." I think Connors could go in either 2 or 3, for instance. Murray might deserve to be in tier 3, also. Same with Newcombe.
Tier 5 are essentially the best players that aren't greats. To be a great, you have to have been the best player on tour for at least a year. Kuerten and Hewitt might belong with these guys, as they were the #1 (Hewitt twice) but it was largely by default as it was between the peaks of prime Sampras/Agassi and Federer, in that "weak era" of 1998-02, especially 00-02.
And then there are the under-achievers and the anomalies. Of recent players, Stan Wawrinka is the hardest to rank because for three years he was able to reach a "GOAT-esque" level, but only at three Slams. Or we can look at David Nalbandian, who is arguably the greatest under-achiever in tennis history. He displayed flashes of brilliance and has one of the best bragging rights in tennis history: the only player to beat the Big Three in a single tournament. His level in that tournament, and at times in other tournaments, was as good as anything we've seen from the Big Three. But he didn't even come close to sustaining it, and was even more of an under-achiever than Marat Safin who at least managed two Slams. But if I could see one career do-over with better coaching and mentality, it would probably be Nalbandian, with Safin a close second. Both should have been, at least, Tier 3 players.
El Dude
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Back to Wimbledon, I have to say that this tournament is kind of a bummer. It isn't just the upsets on their own, it is that none of the young guys are really making a mark, except for maybe Ben Shelton - who . It just feels like a clearing away for the battle we all knew would occur: Sinner vs. Djokovic, and the winner vs. Alcaraz.
That said, I don't think Jannik should take Shelton for granted. Awhile back Andy Roddick pointed out how good Shelton was relative to his experience. He didn't really start playing tennis until he was 12 years old - which is about 5 years after most other top players. He still has a rawness that, if ironed out, gives him a legit shot at the top 5. I'd say at this point, he's surpassed not only Paul but Fritz as the US's best hope for a Slam winner. I'd even go so far as to say that his future outlook is at least as good as players like Rune and Fils, maybe even Draper. I think his upside is higher than Fils and Draper, but it remains to be seen whether he can harness it.
That said, I don't think Jannik should take Shelton for granted. Awhile back Andy Roddick pointed out how good Shelton was relative to his experience. He didn't really start playing tennis until he was 12 years old - which is about 5 years after most other top players. He still has a rawness that, if ironed out, gives him a legit shot at the top 5. I'd say at this point, he's surpassed not only Paul but Fritz as the US's best hope for a Slam winner. I'd even go so far as to say that his future outlook is at least as good as players like Rune and Fils, maybe even Draper. I think his upside is higher than Fils and Draper, but it remains to be seen whether he can harness it.
Tennis tournaments during the month of August include the Toronto Masters (which begin on July 28), the Cincinnati Masters, and the Winston Salem Open. The US Open will start on August 25, and will run until September 7.
MargaretMcAleer
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Thanks I realize that, apparently August will be playing challenger tournaments after Wimbledon
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