US Open, Flushing Meadows, NY USA - Grand Slam (Men)

[Federberg]

There are black dudes in my gym and I respectfully disagree. They gain a lot more on gear, YES, but not otherwise. Case in point how many black bodybuilders there are/were. If it were all down to genetics then why is Venus like a bean pole by comparison? Such a difference in genetics that one sister can be totally different and not even a smidgeon of bulk? Seems unlikely to most. The more likely scenario is the one who is bulked to the max is on gear...if none of the above in my prior post point to drug use and obvious evading of tests I've nothing more to say.

I've seen that type of disparity between family members. There's nothing exceptional about this

 

[Carol]

Not wasting anymore time explaining this to you besides this. I never said it was all down to muscles anywhere at all ever if you read my posts. I said there are no standout giveaway signs with Roger and that this doesn't mean he's in the clear. It means there are no standout signs. His stamina is not questionable at all either so it's hardly comparable to convicted dopers in that respect.

He tires like a normal athlete would and has often lost matches due to fatigue in deciding sets. It's because he hasn't Duracell bunny stamina that he has to win matches quickly. The complete opposite of a guy who actually PREFERS long points which is against the norm. Your suspicion should be directed at the players who never get tired.

I said enough before......
By the way, are you a doper? I'm surprised how much you insist and like to acuse to anyone about that issue.....

 

[Front242]

I said enough before......
By the way, are you a doper? I'm surprised how much you insist and like to acuse to anyone about that issue.....

No idea why I'm even bothering to reply to this childish response but I am. Why would a normal person making a normal living be a doper? Doping is for professional athletes playing sports for huge amounts of money, not normal people. Carry on living a naive life thinking all these athletes are clean and that they wouldn't try whatever they can get away with to make millions and I'll carry on realizing the truth and harsh reality that you seem happy to just brush aside even when the giveaway signs are staring you in the eye.

 

[Moxie]

Personally, I've had enough of those that are so convinced that they know who's doping calling those who chose to be more skeptical "naive," and claiming that those who don't subscribe to their unprovable convictions "think that all athletes are clean." Not buying your theories doesn't have to mean its opposite. Those who believe that they can tell a lot by comparing various video clips and still photos, take some circumstantial evidence as gospel, or "proof" and claim that certain levels of fitness and recovery in professionally trained athletes prove they're doping, when it doesn't mean anything in other players, is childish witch-hunting, and also cherry-picking. Calling others "naive," and insisting that we don't believe that doping in sports and tennis exists is a false, unfair way of trying to make their argument the "reasonable" one. It's not. It's slightly hysterical. It's also slanderous against the reputations of athletes they don't like.

 

[backhandslapper]

You can tell there is a big difference in bone structure between Venus and Serena, and it has always been quite obvious. It's true though that Serena, despite having a wide frame to begin with, wasn't always the muscleball she turned into later on.

I always thought that Hewitt and Nadal looked very suspect at times. Hewitt around Wimbledon 2002. He seemed to have some skin troubles and it looked a whole lot like acne which is a common symptom of steroid use. The quality of his hair seemed to decrease around the same time. His on-court behaviour was... you know, and his mysterious break from ATP tour (to bulk up) in 2003 was weird too.

I remember Nadal suddenly becoming a Serena-like muscleball around the FO 2005 and that's when his share of steroid speculations began circulating around him.

I remember Henin getting way too muscly almost overnight. I always doubted Djokovic's form boost in 2011 stemmed from eating gluten-free (imagine it was bs, it's actually very very funny).

On top of it all. Federer and his mononucleosis along with an obvious drop in form in 2008 looked suspect. So does his resurrection this year, and Nadal's as well.

All in all, if they all dope, ATP and WTA probably play along and help them through. If they all dope, no-one really cheats and none of them gets cheated.

It's only us who's laughed at.

 

[Fiero425]

You can tell there is a big difference in bone structure between Venus and Serena, and it has always been quite obvious. It's true though that Serena, despite having a wide frame to begin with, wasn't always the muscleball she turned into later on.

I always thought that Hewitt and Nadal looked very suspect at times. Hewitt around Wimbledon 2002. He seemed to have some skin troubles and it looked a whole lot like acne which is a common symptom of steroid use. The quality of his hair seemed to decrease around the same time. His on-court behaviour was... you know, and his mysterious break from ATP tour (to bulk up) in 2003 was weird too.

I remember Nadal suddenly becoming a Serena-like muscleball around the FO 2005 and that's when his share of steroid speculations began circulating around him.

I remember Henin getting way too muscly almost overnight. I always doubted Djokovic's form boost in 2011 stemmed from eating gluten-free (imagine it was bs, it's actually very very funny).

On top of it all. Federer and his mononucleosis along with an obvious drop in form in 2008 looked suspect. So does his resurrection this year, and Nadal's as well.

All in all, if they all dope, ATP and WTA probably play along and help them through. If they all dope, no-one really cheats and none of them gets cheated.

It's only us who's laughed at.

I don't agree with a lot of this, but it would be naïve to believe any sport is totally clean! Tennis players never went through such multi-metamorphosis in the past! Either you lost weight training better or you finally decided to get off beer to lose the gut! Now muscle mass, extreme training, and heaven knows chemical help whether legal or banned, there will always be some who feel entitled or a serious need to go above and beyond to get where they want to be in their respective sports!

 

[Moxie]

You can tell there is a big difference in bone structure between Venus and Serena, and it has always been quite obvious. It's true though that Serena, despite having a wide frame to begin with, wasn't always the muscleball she turned into later on.

I always thought that Hewitt and Nadal looked very suspect at times. Hewitt around Wimbledon 2002. He seemed to have some skin troubles and it looked a whole lot like acne which is a common symptom of steroid use. The quality of his hair seemed to decrease around the same time. His on-court behaviour was... you know, and his mysterious break from ATP tour (to bulk up) in 2003 was weird too.

I remember Nadal suddenly becoming a Serena-like muscleball around the FO 2005 and that's when his share of steroid speculations began circulating around him.

I remember Henin getting way too muscly almost overnight. I always doubted Djokovic's form boost in 2011 stemmed from eating gluten-free (imagine it was bs, it's actually very very funny).

On top of it all. Federer and his mononucleosis along with an obvious drop in form in 2008 looked suspect. So does his resurrection this year, and Nadal's as well.

All in all, if they all dope, ATP and WTA probably play along and help them through. If they all dope, no-one really cheats and none of them gets cheated.

It's only us who's laughed at.

I do think it's rather spurious to judge players physiques, hair and skin via images on the internet. I understand that there is reason to suspect cheating, but I don't think you can do it via visual images, as you can't account for how images are stretched, manipulated, one of muscles in extremis vs. muscles at rest, etc.

 

[Ricardo]

You can tell there is a big difference in bone structure between Venus and Serena, and it has always been quite obvious. It's true though that Serena, despite having a wide frame to begin with, wasn't always the muscleball she turned into later on.

I always thought that Hewitt and Nadal looked very suspect at times. Hewitt around Wimbledon 2002. He seemed to have some skin troubles and it looked a whole lot like acne which is a common symptom of steroid use. The quality of his hair seemed to decrease around the same time. His on-court behaviour was... you know, and his mysterious break from ATP tour (to bulk up) in 2003 was weird too.

I remember Nadal suddenly becoming a Serena-like muscleball around the FO 2005 and that's when his share of steroid speculations began circulating around him.

I remember Henin getting way too muscly almost overnight. I always doubted Djokovic's form boost in 2011 stemmed from eating gluten-free (imagine it was bs, it's actually very very funny).

On top of it all. Federer and his mononucleosis along with an obvious drop in form in 2008 looked suspect. So does his resurrection this year, and Nadal's as well.

All in all, if they all dope, ATP and WTA probably play along and help them through. If they all dope, no-one really cheats and none of them gets cheated.

It's only us who's laughed at.

It's reasonable to say that if they all doped, ATP/WTA would have to play along or they'd all be out of business. What would you do if your biggest stars doped and you know everyone would sink (obviously yourself too) if you made it public? I personally know someone who coached a medium ranked player and he told me that two of the above mentioned stars doped like crazy, and i trust he didn't make it up.

 

[Federberg]

It's reasonable to say that if they all doped, ATP/WTA would have to play along or they'd all be out of business. What would you do if your biggest stars doped and you know everyone would sink (obviously yourself too) if you made it public? I personally know someone who coached a medium ranked player and he told me that two of the above mentioned stars doped like crazy, and i trust he didn't make it up.

which ones doped?

 

[Ricardo]

which ones doped?

two of the male players from above, not naming names for obvious reasons.

 

[Carol]

two of the male players from above, not naming names for obvious reasons.

Wow, to come here and to read crap is everything I can see. Do you have the proof to acusse Federer, Novak, Nadal, Hewitt or someone else? and remember, to build muscles has nothing to do with to be a doper, to be thin is a lot more suspect.....

 

[Moxie]

Wow, to come here and to read crap is everything I can see. Do you have the proof to acusse Federer, Novak, Nadal, Hewitt or someone else? and remember, to build muscles has nothing to do with to be a doper, to be thin is a lot more suspect.....

It's never going to stop. Some people are invested in the notion that certain top players have doped, and the Federer people will never believe it's Fed. They keep wafting the stench of innuendo, hoping that will do the job, in the absence of actual proof. Ricardo says he has a friend on the inside who tells him he knows something. He's willing to say that, but not name. I don't see why. He's completely anonymous on this site. And if he won't name, then he's trading in the same baseless implication and slander. Though, in any case, anyone can say they know someone on the inside, which could be complete BS.

 

[Moxie]

And as an update for @Front242, in particular, the lawyers for Nadal and Mme. Bachelot did appear in court recently, and a verdict will be reached on Nov. 16th. Here is an article.

 

[Carol]

If that "Ricardo" and "others" would know the things that I was told then "he" and the "others" would be quiet for ever and ever.......word!

 

[Carol]

It's never going to stop. Some people are invested in the notion that certain top players have doped, and the Federer people will never believe it's Fed. They keep wafting the stench of innuendo, hoping that will do the job, in the absence of actual proof. Ricardo says he has a friend on the inside who tells him he knows something. He's willing to say that, but not name. I don't see why. He's completely anonymous on this site. And if he won't name, then he's trading in the same baseless implication and slander. Though, in any case, anyone can say they know someone on the inside, which could be complete BS.

To talk is cheap, everyone can say whatever is more convenient and sometimes trying to distract from..... and blaming others

 

[Moxie]

To talk is cheap, everyone can say whatever is more convenient and sometimes trying to distract from..... and blaming others

Talk is especially cheap on the internet. Just slinging crap long and hard doesn't make it any more true.

 

[Busted]

There are black dudes in my gym and I respectfully disagree. They gain a lot more on gear, YES, but not otherwise. Case in point how many black bodybuilders there are/were. If it were all down to genetics then why is Venus like a bean pole by comparison? Such a difference in genetics that one sister can be totally different and not even a smidgeon of bulk? Seems unlikely to most. The more likely scenario is the one who is bulked to the max is on gear...if none of the above in my prior post point to drug use and obvious evading of tests I've nothing more to say.

No offense Front242...but this is about the dumbest non-Carol thing I've ever read on this site. I take offense as a human being - let alone as a black woman (which I am). Your logic is backward and ridiculous. Everybody else in my family is 5'8" or taller. I have a brother who's 2 years older and is 6'5" and an ex-football player. I have 2 more older brothers who are over 6'. I have a sister who is 2 years younger and is 6' and while not a beanpole she's pretty muscular.. I am 5'3" and suck at athletics and rock some chub to prove it. By your logic I can't possibly be related to everyone else in my family because they all tower over me and have bigger muscles. Genetics, even within families with siblings barely 2 years apart - can vary vastly. I can extrapolate that my lack of height is due to the fact that my father had 10 siblings - and his 6 sisters as well as his mother were all under 5'4" and he was only 5'8" himself. Yet he had 4 brothers who were all over 6' - which possibly accounted for my 6'+ siblings all being extra tall. My mother was also about 5'8". When she was a young woman she was stick thin and yet she had a brother who was a 6'2" badass military man who liked to crack walnuts on his forehead - probably just to scare the shite out of us, but beside the point.. Hence my siblings being tall with differing body types - some more muscular than others - and me being short and not muscular. So please don't be illogical like some other posters here. Be better, please.

PS - Exactly when is Serena supposed to have started using steroids? In the crib? She was a muscular 10 year-old, so why wouldn't she be a muscular 36 year-old? Just totally freaking dumb ass. If you look at childhood photos of her and Venus she was ALWAYS more muscular than Venus. Let's accuse the black woman of using steroids because it can't possibly be genetics and hard work that's given her those muscles. No sirree, Bob. She must be juicing. Christ. I'm done with this convo. Just flipping ridiculous. This nonsense is why I don't post on the women's tennis boards. The racism on this issue is beyond disgusting - especially when Serena has passed every drug test she's ever taken. Meanwhile it's the blond white woman who got caught using a banned substance, but she served her sentence so now let's go after the muscular black woman because she cannot possibly be more HONEST than the blond white woman. Ugh! It's rampant and repugnant racism and it makes me want to puke. And the worst part? I'm not even a big Serena fan. She's OK, but gimme Steffi Graf as the female GOAT any day of the week....

 

[Moxie]

@Busted: You win the rant of the week! That was awesome.

 

[Busted]

It's never going to stop. Some people are invested in the notion that certain top players have doped, and the Federer people will never believe it's Fed. They keep wafting the stench of innuendo, hoping that will do the job, in the absence of actual proof. Ricardo says he has a friend on the inside who tells him he knows something. He's willing to say that, but not name. I don't see why. He's completely anonymous on this site. And if he won't name, then he's trading in the same baseless implication and slander. Though, in any case, anyone can say they know someone on the inside, which could be complete BS.

The reason why "Ricardo" won't name names is simple - it's called a SUBPOENA. The second he names names and claims to have definitive proof or inside knowledge that X, Y or Z player is juicing - especially as big a name as Federer or Nadal - here come the lawyers with a subpoena for the site owner and the web host to obtain the IP address of the person posting as "Ricardo." From there the FBI, Interpol, Scotland Yard or whichever law enforcement agency is called in is going to hunt "Ricardo" down like a dog and show up at his door with search warrants and tear his life apart. The player's lawyers will make sure of that.

And BTW - Federer doing steriods? Please. That makes me laugh myself sick every time I read it. I really wish people would quit trying to turn a kitten into a lion with these ridiculous rumors. If this person had "proof" they'd have turned it over to WADA a long time ago. Same with Nadal. Every rider in cycling knew Lance Armstrong was doping. If Federer or Nadal were juicing there's way too many jealous players who'd have ratted them out by now. Look at how many riders squealed about Armstrong - even without a smoking gun. Jealously and losing to these guys repeatedly would be a powerful motivator to see them dethroned. Same as with Armstrong. The money other players are not making because of Federer and Nadal would be enough to make people talk - IF they had proof. Money is the world's greatest motivator.

 

[Busted]

And as an update for @Front242, in particular, the lawyers for Nadal and Mme. Bachelot did appear in court recently, and a verdict will be reached on Nov. 16th. Here is an article.

Huh? Her lawyer argued that Nadal would have gotten caught juicing IF ONLY the ITF did more tests? How is that the same as Nadal faking an injury to AVOID a drug test? Cuz...it ain't the same thing. At all. I guess her argument is, "He'd have have avoided the test IF they'd asked him to take one!" LOL! I don't like Nadal, but I hope he wins just because her lawyer is stupid...