World Tour Finals: Day 8 - Final - Sunday Nov. 16, Order of Play

[nehmeth]

You know... if you add up the multiple threads discussing this issue, we're probably at 8 pages already

:snigger

Yep, and this time, all the accusation and innuendo is directed at Roger instead of Rafa.

 

[Federberg]

Lol! Had to happen some day! You wait.. Nole's turn is coming. Far too many Rafa fans on here for it not to happen

 

[nehmeth]

Lol! Had to happen some day! You wait.. Nole's turn is coming. Far too many Rafa fans on here for it not to happen

You must not have been around during and after his 2011 run over Ralf. He was accused juicing (via the Egg), being a tax dodger (for choosing to reside in Monaco) and being a Buddhist (Ohm, I forget who started that one). Kieran had fun winding his fans up and Broken had fun shredding them. Made it a little harder to enjoy Nole's success, but not too difficult.

 

[Federberg]

Lol! Had to happen some day! You wait.. Nole's turn is coming. Far too many Rafa fans on here for it not to happen

You must not have been around during and after his 2011 run over Ralf. He was accused juicing (via the Egg), being a tax dodger (for choosing to reside in Monaco) and being a Buddhist (Ohm, I forget who started that one). Kieran had fun winding his fans up and Broken had fun shredding them. Made it a little harder to enjoy Nole's success, but not too difficult.

Hahaha! Yes that's true, I do recall seeing those discussions. It's the way of things

 

[Noelann]

You people would complain if Roger wasn't holding the microphone to interview Nole. Roger basically gave his apology and runner-up speech when he went on the court.

And let's not complain about him wussing out of a match when we are talking about Djokovic and Nadal fans here. The combined withdrawals, (fake) medical timeouts (ie 5th set Wimbledon this year) and quitting during matches would be an astronomic number.

From ATP rulebook:

k) Ceremonies

i) All tournament finalists must attend and participate in the post-match ceremonies, unless he is physically unable to do so as determined by the tournament Doctor. This includes retirements and finals not played due to a walkover

ii) Violation of this section shall subject a player to a fine up to $5,000.

Since he was able to walk, the only other reason why he wouldn't participate in the post-walkover ceremonies is that he didn't give a damn and would rather pay a fine than be a sportsman.

We've heard it each time when other players had to retire or skip a tournament, so it is only fair that you guys hear it this time. And frankly, I don't remember either player ditching a final of a big tournament like this. They don't feel fit and able to compete, they still go out and get their ass kicked, such is life.

I can only imagine the reactions if it were Nole withdrawing before the final here.:nono

I agree that not participating in the post-match ceremony is against the rules.
However, do we know whether he was made aware of that by the organizers/atp
in time. Given that he has never before given a walkover in a final, perhaps he
is not aware of it.

Once in a match against Andy, Novak came to the net and his racquet crossed the
net when he hit a shot. Novak was given the point as nobody noticed it. Later in the
presser, Novak admitted that his racquet indeed crossed the net in that shot, but
claimed that he did not know it is illegal. Most club players are aware of this rule,
I think. If Novak can be unaware of a rule that relates to the game, why can't
Federer be unaware of a rule that relates to post-tourney ceremony etiquette.

Really lame comparisons ,even on edge of the suspicion of cheating. For the record, it was match against Andy at QF Miami 2014, Novak made mistake crossing the net with his raquet, that was quite a mistake from his side, watching the footage- clearly shows that Andys ball would not have crossed the net, Novak made an unnecessary move. Judge give the point to Novak, when Andy complained (you said to no one noticed) , he said that he didn't see Novak crossing the net, even Novak admitted the same.
In Federers case it's not just about unawareness of rules, but about giving respect to his opponent in the final, from which he had to withdraw.And incidentally this is the final one of the biggest tournaments in tennis.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Lol! Had to happen some day! You wait.. Nole's turn is coming. Far too many Rafa fans on here for it not to happen

You must not have been around during and after his 2011 run over Ralf. He was accused juicing (via the Egg), being a tax dodger (for choosing to reside in Monaco) and being a Buddhist (Ohm, I forget who started that one). Kieran had fun winding his fans up and Broken had fun shredding them. Made it a little harder to enjoy Nole's success, but not too difficult.

This is a flat-out lie (referring to the part about me), but whatever. The only fans I was butting heads with in 2011 were Rafa fans following the fire uncle Toni debacle. I was way too worked up over Rafa losing so much (and freely admit it) to focus on Novak.

Also, the only juicing accusation came from Novak fans following his loss to Roger at the French Open (2 specific fans to be exact, as I don't want to generalize. But I could easily make up facts and say "nehmeth," though that would be a lie too). But why bother with facts.

Also, Novak's turn has come a long time ago and he has been shredded -- rightfully so -- for bull$hit injuries. Luckily, he hasn't done that in a long time and has turned things around, the same he has done for many other things in his career.

EDIT: I may have "shredded" Mastoor but this is was no different to any other year before or since, and had zero to do with Nadal's losses to Djokovic.

 

[Federberg]

^Once again.. Roger called Novak and spoke to him. There is no issue about disrespect to Novak if that gets done. He came on court and apologised to the crowd, again.. no issue about disrespect. This is getting a bit tired now...

 

[brokenshoelace]

You know... if you add up the multiple threads discussing this issue, we're probably at 8 pages already

Just wondering, if Roger loses at the Davis Cup, are we allowed to bring up the back injury or is it "Roger always stunk in Davis Cup finals"?

 

[Federberg]

You people would complain if Roger wasn't holding the microphone to interview Nole. Roger basically gave his apology and runner-up speech when he went on the court.

And let's not complain about him wussing out of a match when we are talking about Djokovic and Nadal fans here. The combined withdrawals, (fake) medical timeouts (ie 5th set Wimbledon this year) and quitting during matches would be an astronomic number.

From ATP rulebook:

k) Ceremonies

i) All tournament finalists must attend and participate in the post-match ceremonies, unless he is physically unable to do so as determined by the tournament Doctor. This includes retirements and finals not played due to a walkover

ii) Violation of this section shall subject a player to a fine up to $5,000.

Since he was able to walk, the only other reason why he wouldn't participate in the post-walkover ceremonies is that he didn't give a damn and would rather pay a fine than be a sportsman.

We've heard it each time when other players had to retire or skip a tournament, so it is only fair that you guys hear it this time. And frankly, I don't remember either player ditching a final of a big tournament like this. They don't feel fit and able to compete, they still go out and get their ass kicked, such is life.

I can only imagine the reactions if it were Nole withdrawing before the final here.:nono

I agree that not participating in the post-match ceremony is against the rules.
However, do we know whether he was made aware of that by the organizers/atp
in time. Given that he has never before given a walkover in a final, perhaps he
is not aware of it.

Once in a match against Andy, Novak came to the net and his racquet crossed the
net when he hit a shot. Novak was given the point as nobody noticed it. Later in the
presser, Novak admitted that his racquet indeed crossed the net in that shot, but
claimed that he did not know it is illegal. Most club players are aware of this rule,
I think. If Novak can be unaware of a rule that relates to the game, why can't
Federer be unaware of a rule that relates to post-tourney ceremony etiquette.

Well said. It's worth pointing out that where sportsmanship on court is concerned Novak is unimpeachable, so only the most trollish person would ever accuse Novak of doing something wrong in that net crossing incident. I'm not sure it had a huge impact on the outcome

 

[Federberg]

You know... if you add up the multiple threads discussing this issue, we're probably at 8 pages already

Just wondering, if Roger loses at the Davis Cup, are we allowed to bring up the back injury or is it "Roger always stunk in Davis Cup finals"?

:clap
I think you know where I stand on this issue. If he's fit enough to play then we'll just have to accept the result, whatever it is. You won't find me saying the outcome would have been any different. It's not as if he hasn't lost to Tsonga, Monfils and even Gasquet on clay. Actually.. he may not have lost to Gael on clay, but I don't think anyone would be surprised if he did lose to him. At least it's indoors! I can hope!

 

[Denis]

^^ I agree with this. Federer probably didn't know and wanted to get out of the place as soon as possible, cause he kind of ruined the party for everyone.

ATP should have made him aware of the rule.

At least it wasn't like Nalby at Queens two years ago lol. Did Nalby get fined for not attending Cilic his ceremony?

 

[brokenshoelace]

Why the hell are people so obsessed with "giving respect"? As long as you shake someone's hand and congratulate them, you don't owe anybody anything else.

I swear people want the loser to lift the winner on his shoulders for a lap of honor. Roger apologized to Novak and the crowd. How would he have given Novak more respect by showing up to collect his runner up trophy? Seriously, if you were Novak and Roger was there, how would that have somehow given you more satisfaction and a sense of respect?

The white knights around here are almost as annoying as the trolls, by the way.

 

[brokenshoelace]

- Logic often thrown around here: If you play, you're not injured (now, while I don't fully subscribe to this line of thinking, I can understand it). If you're injured, you don't play.

And yet:

- If you don't play, well, you're not injured. You're just scared.

Someone please explain the above to me.

 

[Federberg]

- Logic often thrown around here: If you play, you're not injured (now, while I don't fully subscribe to this line of thinking, I can understand it). If you're injured, you don't play.

And yet:

- If you don't play, well, you're not injured. You're just scared.

Someone please explain the above to me.

Hope you're not getting that from me! I make my mind up based on what I see with regards to whether an injury had an impact on a result. But certainly a sportsman will get no sympathy from me if they lose. That's sports. Generally my view is.. if you're fit enough to play then let the die roll where they may. I don't want this thread to get sidelined, but my views are well documented. There is no doubt in my mind that Rafa was injured in the AO final against Stan, however it's not clear to me he would definitely have turned that match around anyway. As for the other hugely controversial match.. it's not clear to me that injury hampered Rafa's play against Soderling. As I've said before he was hitting short balls into Soderlings strike zone and paid the price. That's just how I see it. I've rewatched the match often enough and my view has never wavered. But at the end of the day it's all about opinions.. :blush:

 

[nehmeth]

Lol! Had to happen some day! You wait.. Nole's turn is coming. Far too many Rafa fans on here for it not to happen

You must not have been around during and after his 2011 run over Ralf. ... Kieran had fun winding his fans up and Broken had fun shredding them. Made it a little harder to enjoy Nole's success, but not too difficult.

This is a flat-out lie (referring to the part about me), but whatever. The only fans I was butting heads with in 2011 were Rafa fans following the fire uncle Toni debacle. I was way too worked up over Rafa losing so much (and freely admit it) to focus on Novak.


EDIT: I may have "shredded" Mastoor but this is was no different to any other year before or since, and had zero to do with Nadal's losses to Djokovic.

You must have missed the and after part. It wasn't just Mastoor, there were a few others - some of whom were so over the top that I went after them too.

And many of your dialogues with the big "M" were very amusing.

 

[Denis]

I hope we see Mastoor back. Not very likely though. Might only happen if Novak straight sets Rafa at RG. I'm sure he will not be able to resist coming back to the boards for a bit then.

 

[brokenshoelace]

- Logic often thrown around here: If you play, you're not injured (now, while I don't fully subscribe to this line of thinking, I can understand it). If you're injured, you don't play.

And yet:

- If you don't play, well, you're not injured. You're just scared.

Someone please explain the above to me.

Hope you're not getting that from me!

You're not accusing Roger of being scared, so no.

 

[brokenshoelace]

I hope we see Mastoor back. Not very likely though. Might only happen if Novak straight sets Rafa at RG. I'm sure he will not be able to resist coming back to the boards for a bit then.

I'd actually let him have a field day and be as over the top as he wants to be then. If there's ever a time for exceptions, it's then. Hopefully, both events never materialize.

 

[TsarMatt]

Federer withdrawing:

 

[Billie]

It was Jose Mourinho's hand that Nole shook during the exhibition final in London and apparently he is a big fan of tennis:

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Media/Video-Landing/*/Tennis/Media/Videos/Uploaded/2014/11/17/London-Finale-2014-Mourinho-Interview.aspx