US Politics Thread

[Moxie]

lol! You think I do. What I think is, Dems need to not allow stuff like this to be an issue... at all! Be the true liberals that at one time Democrats were. Not trying to impose behaviours and values on other people. Focus on the pocket book issues that the average Americans are concerned about. Create policies that benefit the lives of the youth. If progressives do everything else, but keep coddling trans activists, feminist nut jobs, BLM fraudsters with nonsense like DEI, then large segments of Dem core voters will feel alienated by them. That's my point

You do agree that it should not be an issue. But who's still running on it? The Republicans. You're looking at the wrong people keeping this nonsense going. Large segments of core Dem voters, and independents also came back to the Dems last week because they focused on the economy. Try to keep up.

 

[Moxie]

Thoughts?

Personally, I think this guys talking out of his ass. I don't know where he got that graph from, but he doesn't say, and he doesn't leave it up long enough to give it a good look. Also, he thinks resentment comes from younger women in six-figure jobs? The headline says that Mamdani

Have a look at this Time article, which breaks it down by neighborhood. I don't expect you to know what they all mean, but Cuomo won the silk stocking ones. He won the Upper East Side. He also won amongst homeowners, (owning a home is much rarer in NYC than, say, in London, and mostly only the wealthiest do.) Mamdani won in many demographics. And he flipped the Bronx, which is in no way amongst the wealthiest.

The NYC Neighborhoods Mamdani Won by the Most and Least

Here’s how Mayor-elect Zohran Mamdani and defeated former Gov. Andrew Cuomo performed at the polls in different parts of the city.

time.com

PS: Why do so many people post these videos from their cars?

 

[Kieran]

So, you're going to blame the Democrats for the authoritarian regime that we're getting under Trump? That seems like an awful reach, don't you think? Either you call them out, or you don't, but don't blame the Dems.

Listen, she wasn’t even selected by the Democratic Party for anything, she just ended up there when Biden had to withdraw (which was a disgraceful moment for your party because the man was obviously unwell but you all cheered him on knowing it wasn’t good for him).

She was only selected as veep in the first place because she was a person of colour or whatever the acceptable term is.

She was obviously useless, another entitled person running for president who the Democrats took for granted would appeal to people who actually had real time concerns. But what the hell do the voters concerns matter?

To black people, your party says, if you don’t vote for her, you ain’t black. If you don’t vote for her you’ve got a problem with women.

Maybe they’ve got a problem with a party that thinks that identity politics are the most important thing, and that women are bigots if they get angry facing a naked man in the gym changing rooms?

You're following in a long tradition of the West being on the wrong side of history by accepting the fascism at hand based on a vague fear of socialism or communism on the part of those fighting the authoritarians and dictators: Spain in the 1930s. The CIA helping to install Pinochet in the 1970s. Even when the Italians surrendered to the Allies, and their resistance was fighting bravely for their freedom, the Allies were suspicious of them due to their far left leanings. Of course the far right drove them to the far left...it's the way things often work in politics. But then Italy had a perfectly integrated Communist party for many decades, and Italy didn't become Communist. And Socialism, as we well know can work quite well in a capitalist society. It helps balance a certain wealth inequality by just caring for others in the way that a civilized society should. Not every strand of socialism leads to the old Soviet Union, or Maoism.

Bernie Sanders has been in Congress for nearly 20 years and he hasn't turned the country socialist. Hell, he hasn't even turned Vermont socialist.

And you’re following a long tradition on the left of calling people fascists if you don’t like them. For the record, communism has been far more the most destructive ideology visited upon the west, and the world in general, in the last 200 years. The death tolls are frightening. The poverty, the collapse of social order, the rise of tyranny has always accompanied it. I don’t know why you don’t know this.

The only thing we know that’s guaranteed from socialism and communism is that they don’t only fail, but they also destroy. They’re opposed to the natural human instincts. Luckily Mamdoni won’t have the actual power to do what he wants, but it’s scary that you all fell so low as to think he’s a solution. People like him, offering freebies everywhere, could run on the same slogan everywhere: “Free Transport, Free Crime, Free Willie.”

Their promises are empty and you’ll find that out in time…

 

[Kieran]

Thoughts?

This has been true for a long time. I come from a rough working class suburb in North Dublin, and we saw through socialists early because they all seemed to be from affluent areas, telling us that we shouldn’t aspire to that but rather, their fellow wealthy neighbours were the problem, that we should overthrow their class of person and strive to keep everybody on the level, to hell with our anxiety and personal ambitions.

Socialists have always been from the middle class. Dabblers, pretenders. Spoofers. They live in big houses and always patronised the working class. It’s not surprising that they’ve moved on from the working class - who they find “deplorable” - and cornered the market in identity politics, pushing another destructive Marxist agenda, abusing children and putting women in the position that they have to defend men-as-women or be considered a bigot, a fascist,

These culture wars are still real, in America and everywhere in the west. The Harris bid for the presidency was based upon an attempt to assert the primacy of her identity over her lack of ideas. We live in torturous times now, where the content of a persons character is considered irrelevant..

 

[Moxie]

Listen, she wasn’t even selected by the Democratic Party for anything, she just ended up there when Biden had to withdraw (which was a disgraceful moment for your party because the man was obviously unwell but you all cheered him on knowing it wasn’t good for him).

She was only selected as veep in the first place because she was a person of colour or whatever the acceptable term is.

She was obviously useless, another entitled person running for president who the Democrats took for granted would appeal to people who actually had real time concerns. But what the hell do the voters concerns matter?

To black people, your party says, if you don’t vote for her, you ain’t black. If you don’t vote for her you’ve got a problem with women.

Maybe they’ve got a problem with a party that thinks that identity politics are the most important thing, and that women are bigots if they get angry facing a naked man in the gym changing rooms?



And you’re following a long tradition on the left of calling people fascists if you don’t like them. For the record, communism has been far more the most destructive ideology visited upon the west, and the world in general, in the last 200 years. The death tolls are frightening. The poverty, the collapse of social order, the rise of tyranny has always accompanied it. I don’t know why you don’t know this.

The only thing we know that’s guaranteed from socialism and communism is that they don’t only fail, but they also destroy. They’re opposed to the natural human instincts. Luckily Mamdoni won’t have the actual power to do what he wants, but it’s scary that you all fell so low as to think he’s a solution. People like him, offering freebies everywhere, could run on the same slogan everywhere: “Free Transport, Free Crime, Free Willie.”

Their promises are empty and you’ll find that out in time…

You refuse to address direct questions about Trump's authoritarian overreach. I suspect it's because there is no defense of it. So you just keep going over old territory, stuff that's already been argued, hoping, what, that I wouldn't notice that can't address it?

I don't call Trump a fascist because I don't like him, but because he has absolutely overt authoritarian tendencies, and they're ruining this country and our reputation in the world. When have I ever called anyone a fascist? You're not talking to all Dems...you're talking to me. Trump has defied the courts and the rule of law. He has sent troops into our own cities, against the will of the elected leaders in their states. And he chooses them because they didn't vote for him. He's deported US citizens. He's gutting useful bureaucracies, and installing puppets. He's defunded medical research to satisfy his own resentment of universities. He's reversing years of efforts by this country to combat climate change.

And all you can think of is how Kamala Harris become the nominee in the last election. I find that shocking.

 

[Moxie]

This has been true for a long time. I come from a rough working class suburb in North Dublin, and we saw through socialists early because they all seemed to be from affluent areas, telling us that we shouldn’t aspire to that but rather, their fellow wealthy neighbours were the problem, that we should overthrow their class of person and strive to keep everybody on the level, to hell with our anxiety and personal ambitions.

Socialists have always been from the middle class. Dabblers, pretenders. Spoofers. They live in big houses and always patronised the working class. It’s not surprising that they’ve moved on from the working class - who they find “deplorable” - and cornered the market in identity politics, pushing another destructive Marxist agenda, abusing children and putting women in the position that they have to defend men-as-women or be considered a bigot, a fascist,

These culture wars are still real, in America and everywhere in the west. The Harris bid for the presidency was based upon an attempt to assert the primacy of her identity over her lack of ideas. We live in torturous times now, where the content of a persons character is considered irrelevant..

Except that I told you the guy's got his facts wrong. But don't let that stop you from nattering on about what this nobody has to say, off the top of his head, too.

 

[Kieran]

Except that I told you the guy's got his facts wrong. But don't let that stop you from nattering on about what this nobody has to say, off the top of his head, too.

This nobody. Lovely stuff. He’s a “nobody”.

Are you saying that socialism isn’t a gift of the smug and condescending middle class, which is what I was addressing? I particularly like his description of your new mayor as a “jihadi socialist couch surfer.”

I suspect he even worse than that, but who knows, given his lack of credentials?

 

[Moxie]

This nobody. Lovely stuff. He’s a “nobody”.

Are you saying that socialism isn’t a gift of the smug and condescending middle class, which is what I was addressing? I particularly like his description of your new mayor as a “jihadi socialist couch surfer.”

I suspect he even worse than that, but who knows, given his lack of credentials?

Isn't he a nobody in terms of credentials for spouting about NYC politics on the internet? Who is he? Oh, lawyer, investor, podcaster.

 

[Kieran]

Isn't he a nobody in terms of credentials for spouting about NYC politics on the internet? Who is he? Oh, lawyer, investor, podcaster.

We’re all nobodies, to people who don’t know us, but we’re all entitled to have an opinion. He may even have “credentials”, You’re being snooty because he thinks your side are shady. But even left wingers make content from their cars…

 

[Moxie]

We’re all nobodies, to people who don’t know us, but we’re all entitled to have an opinion. He may even have “credentials”, You’re being snooty because he thinks your side are shady. But even left wingers make content from their cars…

It's not "snooty" to ask why the guy has a right to inflict his opinion on so many others, via the internet, just because his phone has a video camera. Or why Federberg thinks his is particularly interesting, since the info is not actually that reliable that he's basing his opinion on. He said the rich voted for him, and the poor didn't, which isn't actually true. And neither was his headline, because he went on and on about young women with college degrees who were disillusioned about their six-figure incomes. WTF?

 

[Moxie]

Here's an article from El País, the Spanish paper. They have several graphs. Scroll down to the section that says "No Income Gap."

Who voted for Mamdani? The New York election in seven charts

More than two million New Yorkers went to the polls, marking the city’s highest voter turnout in two decades

english.elpais.com

Note that while Mamdani did win the highest income voters over Cuomo by 9 percentage points, he also won the lowest income voters over Cuomo by 9 percentage points. (Note also that their statistic is for folks making $50K or less, not $30K or less, because, as I was wondering in that guy's statistics...who lives in NYC and makes under $30K? I search far and wide for it, and there is no statistic, so that guy made that chart up, IMO. Which is why he shows it only briefly, and cites no source.) Cuomo won voters in the $50-100K group by 7%.

 

[Federberg]

You do agree that it should not be an issue. But who's still running on it? The Republicans. You're looking at the wrong people keeping this nonsense going. Large segments of core Dem voters, and independents also came back to the Dems last week because they focused on the economy. Try to keep up.

you can't be this politically naive. I'm talking about 2028, not an off year election. Furthermore, Republicans will continue to run it as long as they consider it effective, obviously in off years or even mid-terms it's less effective, but in a Presidential election year when the less active voter is in play you bet your a$$ this sort of thing will work, history has shown it does. Be better!

 

[Moxie]

you can't be this politically naive. I'm talking about 2028, not an off year election. Furthermore, Republicans will continue to run it as long as they consider it effective, obviously in off years or even mid-terms it's less effective, but in a Presidential election year when the less active voter is in play you bet your a$$ this sort of thing will work, history has shown it does. Be better!

I know what you're talking about. And I think you're wrong. How much "history" shows this works? I think we both said this above...the Dems got their playbook last week, and they'd better learn something from it. The voters are done with it because they have more pressing things to think about. We'll see where we are in 2 years, when the next presidential cycle starts in earnest, but I don't think the Republicans are going to make hay out of it, either.

 

[Federberg]

I know what you're talking about. And I think you're wrong. How much "history" shows this works? I think we both said this above...the Dems got their playbook last week, and they'd better learn something from it. The voters are done with it because they have more pressing things to think about. We'll see where we are in 2 years, when the next presidential cycle starts in earnest, but I don't think the Republicans are going to make hay out of it, either.

it'll be interesting to see. Right now I don't see who is going to step up and replace Trump. It's entirely possible of course that he will try for a 3rd term and in doing so he'll doom any potential candidates. Bill Maher has predicted he'll seriously go for it, he's had a few successful predictions, but who knows what the orange one will be like in two years. Time in the White House might as well be in dog years as it ages people fast. All I'm saying though is that cultural issues remain a significant vulnerability for Dems, particularly as most Dems are so bad at handling the issue because of such a diverse constituency. Whoever it is... Gavin Newson, Whitmer, Moore, Shapiro... they'll need to figure it out... and mean it! Otherwise they'll have problems. By the way I don't think those issues are fatal, I think the economy and the stock market by 2028 might represent a significant disadvantage for Republicans in any case

 

[Moxie]

it'll be interesting to see. Right now I don't see who is going to step up and replace Trump. It's entirely possible of course that he will try for a 3rd term and in doing so he'll doom any potential candidates.

IMO, there is no replacement for Trump. It's a cult of one. He has said recently that he won't try for a 3rd term. (It's outrageous that he even says that!) But who knows what he'll try. I do agree that if he plays coy about it, he will doom other candidates.

Bill Maher has predicted he'll seriously go for it, he's had a few successful predictions, but who knows what the orange one will be like in two years. Time in the White House might as well be in dog years as it ages people fast.

The Presidency ages people who take it seriously, and have a conscience. Donald Trump wore the first term quite lightly. It's only the poor diet that might do him in.

All I'm saying though is that cultural issues remain a significant vulnerability for Dems, particularly as most Dems are so bad at handling the issue because of such a diverse constituency. Whoever it is... Gavin Newson, Whitmer, Moore, Shapiro... they'll need to figure it out... and mean it! Otherwise they'll have problems. By the way I don't think those issues are fatal, I think the economy and the stock market by 2028 might represent a significant disadvantage for Republicans in any case

I know you're serious about it, but I think we're learning to move on. We'll see. The economy will matter. How this tariffs thing shakes out will matter. (It's posing a lot of problems. Impacting a lot of industries.) Farmers are incensed that Trump gave some billions of dollars to Argentinian farmers, while they're barely holding on here. Sending perfectly law-abiding non-citizens out of the country is having financial consequences, and political ones. We have always counted on immigrant labor. The choices Trump has made in these 10 months are only barely yet being felt, economically and socially. And yet, they impacted the recent elections.

And, I hate to say it, but this Epstein thing is biting them in the ass, and it will get worse, it seems. Speaker Johnson has done all he can to keep it at bay. The Dems don't really care. It's the MAGA base that does.

 

[Kieran]

Given his socialist leanings, I’ll actually applaud Mamdani when he deals with this:

 

[Moxie]

Given his socialist leanings, I’ll actually applaud Mamdani when he deals with this:

Transgender and gender non-conforming people are vastly over-represented amongst the homeless. They deserve shelter, too, right? Why does that bother you?

 

[Kieran]

Transgender and gender non-conforming people are vastly over-represented amongst the homeless. They deserve shelter, too, right? Why does that bother you?

Did you even listen to video?

 

[Moxie]

Did you even listen to video?

I did. What the problem? The cost? What do you think it costs to care for the homeless in NYC? In 2022, the Adams Administration ADDED $99 million to the previously budgeted amount.

https://ibo.nyc.ny.us/iboreports/adams-increases-funds-for-homeless-shelters-but-more-needed-for-shelters-and-other-programs-fopb-march-2022.pdf

 

[Kieran]

I did. What the problem? The cost? What do you think it costs to care for the homeless in NYC? In 2022, the Adams Administration ADDED $99 million to the previously budgeted amount.

https://ibo.nyc.ny.us/iboreports/adams-increases-funds-for-homeless-shelters-but-more-needed-for-shelters-and-other-programs-fopb-march-2022.pdf

Well, I think you’re causing the problem in the first place, with trans people, by mainstreaming and celebrating mental issues instead of tackling them before they get to this stage, but seriously, $65m over the next five years, roughly $7200 per month, roughly $235 per day, is higher than your usual homeless shelter, mainly because it’s part of a political coup, rather than simply there to help the homeless.

And that’s not even taking into account the boutique conditions for residents, the Soviet-style purity tests for the staff and the expensive capitulation of your city to a litigious trans activist..