US Politics Thread

Moxie

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Well, I think you’re causing the problem in the first place,
Me, personally? :lulz1:
with trans people, by mainstreaming and celebrating mental issues instead of tackling them before they get to this stage, but seriously, $65m over the next five years, roughly $7200 per month, roughly $235 per day, is higher than your usual homeless shelter, mainly because it’s part of a political coup, rather than simply there to help the homeless.

And that’s not even taking into account the boutique conditions for residents, the Soviet-style purity tests for the staff and the expensive capitulation of your city to a litigious trans activist..
I refuse to start all over again about what trans is, and how it has always existed. Take it back to the PC threads. But this is not a new problem. Trans kids get kicked out of their homes, come to NYC, especially, amongst a few other places, with no place to live, no money, and are forced to turn to sex work, often. This is not a choice. Either you believe people deserve housing, or you don't.
 

mrzz

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Transgender and gender non-conforming people are vastly over-represented amongst the homeless. They deserve shelter, too, right? Why does that bother you?
This a topic I am very sensible to. In Brazil, at least, this is not the case. I travel around the country and this is something I always pay attention to. In my personal experience, they are not over-represented.

Anyway, this is secondary. "They deserve shelter" is trickier than it sounds. I would phrase it as "I wish no one was homeless and I would love to help".

Homelessness is a very complicated problem. One part of it is that a lot of homeless people chose to be homeless, consciously refusing shelter. There are the severe drug addicts, there are the psychiatric patients. It is an extremely complicated issue.

Having said all that, the initiative above sounds like waste of money and energy. But I won't lie, I haven't watched the video. Is it very likely that the person who created has trans prejudice? Yes. Is it likely he _still_ has a point? Also yes... That's the crazy world we live in.
 

Kieran

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Me, personally? :lulz1:
Of course, you personally! Ever since I discovered your middle name is Blofeld, I’ve been worried. :lulz1:
I refuse to start all over again about what trans is, and how it has always existed.
Yes, it has always existed but never before with this form of ideological manufacture. This is not natural. You’re creating the problem, not helping to solve it.

Yes, YOU, Blofeld! :lol6:

Yes I believe people deserve housing, but if you listen to the T&C’s on this place, they’re getting special treatment based upon a litigious activist being treated like a benevolent social worker…
 
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Kieran

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This a topic I am very sensible to. In Brazil, at least, this is not the case. I travel around the country and this is something I always pay attention to. In my personal experience, they are not over-represented.
Because no doubt they’re natural, suffering from gender disphoria, and not cos players. I imagine.
Anyway, this is secondary. "They deserve shelter" is trickier than it sounds. I would phrase it as "I wish no one was homeless and I would love to help".

Homelessness is a very complicated problem. One part of it is that a lot of homeless people chose to be homeless, consciously refusing shelter. There are the severe drug addicts, there are the psychiatric patients. It is an extremely complicated issue.

Having said all that, the initiative above sounds like waste of money and energy. But I won't lie, I haven't watched the video. Is it very likely that the person who created has trans prejudice? Yes. Is it likely he _still_ has a point? Also yes... That's the crazy world we live in.
The person who created the video isn’t a “he”, and not even a “she/her”: she doesn’t identify as a woman because she’s doesn’t have to, she IS a woman, and it’s a short video worth watching. It’s tells a lot about how western activists really turn the screws when faced by weak political leadership..
 

Moxie

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Of course, you personally! Ever since I discovered your middle name is Blofeld, I’ve been worried. :lulz1:

Yes, it has always existed but never before with this form of ideological manufacture. This is not natural. You’re creating the problem, not helping to solve it.

Yes, YOU, Blofeld! :lol6:

Yes I believe people deserve housing, but if you listen to the T&C’s on this place, they’re getting special treatment based upon a litigious activist being treated like a benevolent social worker…
My middle name is "Blowhard," not "Blo-FELD," OK? Get it right! :face-with-tears-of-joy: (Also, that's Blowhard in the traditional sense, just in case @Front242 comes around with the dirty jokes. :D)

"T&C's?" I can't figure that one out. And who is this "litigious activist" you have now mentioned twice?

I'm going to address "special treatment" more fully in my response to Mrzz, but the reason for a segregated facility would be the same as the reason we have women's shelters: safety.

But I would also like to say this: it's my money, not yours. It's my city, not yours. Why should you be so bothered?
 
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Moxie

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This a topic I am very sensible to. In Brazil, at least, this is not the case. I travel around the country and this is something I always pay attention to. In my personal experience, they are not over-represented.
I was lazy in my wording. I meant that transgender people are over-represented amongst the homeless population in NYC compared to their percentage of the population. Sorry for the confusion.

Obviously, I can't speak to what is the reality on the ground in Brazil.
Anyway, this is secondary. "They deserve shelter" is trickier than it sounds. I would phrase it as "I wish no one was homeless and I would love to help".

Homelessness is a very complicated problem. One part of it is that a lot of homeless people chose to be homeless, consciously refusing shelter. There are the severe drug addicts, there are the psychiatric patients. It is an extremely complicated issue.
I agree that homelessness is a complicated problem. Which that little video does not address. Yes, some people prefer to live on the streets. If you ask them why, many will say that they are concerned for their safety in a shelter, which is why segregated shelters exist. Many are drug addicted, and many have mental health issues. Often, these are co-occurring issues. Sometimes mental heath problems lead to self-medicating with drugs, and, conversely, drug use can create mental illness. You can't force people to take their anti-psychotic medications, and you can't commit them forever against their will, so, often, they end up (back) on the streets. It's VERY complicated.
Having said all that, the initiative above sounds like waste of money and energy. But I won't lie, I haven't watched the video. Is it very likely that the person who created has trans prejudice? Yes. Is it likely he _still_ has a point? Also yes... That's the crazy world we live in.
I actually wanted to say this: I definitely think that if the shelter were not created for trans- and gender nonconforming people, there would be no video. And certainly Kieran wouldn't have posted it. Who cares how much NYC invests in a homeless shelter?

But why would it be a waste of money and energy? It will certainly get some people off the streets. Some of that "extravagant" money is for mental health counseling, drug counseling, and efforts to get people mainstreamed into jobs and society. To help find permanent housing. Homelessness is not just a problem for the homeless. It's a quality of life issue for everyone who lives with it. The fewer people on the streets and sleeping in the subways, the safer we all are.

I absolutely know we can't save them all. But it's worth trying to save the ones we can. You'll entice more into care by creating a nice facility, rather than the shoddy, unsafe, communal facilities of old. Just because you're poor, doesn't mean you don't deserve to be treated with dignity, in one of the richest cities in the world.

I do some work with a tiny little church in my neighborhood. They have a soup kitchen they can only afford to staff and keep open 3 days a week. What do people do the other 4? They find housing for people, usually men, one person at a time, and take donations for the things they need to start a home and a life. It's a very one-to-one effort. All (or almost all?) volunteer effort, with the kindest people I've ever met. But it's a drop in the bucket. Cities, states and the nation, as a whole, need to do the heavy-lifting.
 

Kieran

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My middle name is "Blowhard," not "Blo-FELD," OK? Get it right! :face-with-tears-of-joy: (Also, that's Blowhard in the traditional sense, just in case @Front242 comes around with the dirty jokes. :D)

"T&C's?" I can't figure that one out. And who is this "litigious activist" you have now mentioned twice?

I'm going to address "special treatment" more fully in my response to Mrzz, but the reason for a segregated facility would be the same as the reason we have women's shelters: safety.

But I would also like to say this: it's my money, not yours. It's my city, not yours. Why should you be so bothered?
Because this is the American politics thread, no? :thinking-face:

Suddenly you’re worried about safety, but when blokes are freely walking around butt naked in front of women in gym changing rooms, you’re unconcerned? Men are more likely aggressors than women, more likely to rape and sexually abuse women, but just because these cynical freaks misuse language to describe themselves, you think there’s no threat to the safety of women.

Actual women, I mean? They used to be the priority for feminists, now “feminists” are more concerned about men.

Hmm..
 

Moxie

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Because this is the American politics thread, no? :thinking-face:

Suddenly you’re worried about safety, but when blokes are freely walking around butt naked in front of women in gym changing rooms, you’re unconcerned? Men are more likely aggressors than women, more likely to rape and sexually abuse women, but just because these cynical freaks misuse language to describe themselves, you think there’s no threat to the safety of women.

Actual women, I mean? They used to be the priority for feminists, now “feminists” are more concerned about men.

Hmm..
Did you ever explain to me what T&C's are? Or who the "ligitious activist" is that you're talking about?

I don't know what to say to you again about the ridiculous fears that you put forth about "blokes walking around butt naked in front of women in gym changing rooms." That doesn't happen. You rightly say that men are the aggressors, in terms of sexual assault, generally. They don't need to put on a dress to assault women. Or even to enter a changing room or a bathroom to assault women. Most assaults on women don't happen in bathrooms or changing rooms, and certainly not perpetrated by trans women. If your concern is for the safety of women, I suggest you get your priorities straight. And if you had any empathy, you'd know that trans women are disproportionately the victims of assault, and at the hands of men. FFS.
 

Moxie

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Senate Majority Whip John Barrasso was on Meet the Press today. Since the shutdown was about Health Care, he complained about Obama Care as a failure. Kristen Welker asked him what the Republicans were proposing to "repeal and replace Obamacare," which they have vowed to do for 10 years. He had no answer. He just kept complaining about how failed it was, as a policy.

Republicans have had 10 years, and 3 presidential election cycles to come up with an alternative health care plan. The government was shut down for 43 days, specifically because the Democrats were standing on Health care, and keeping the government subsidies. Otherwise, people's premiums will go up three-fold and more. Aside from the 10 years they've had to think about it, the Republicans got paid (while no other government workers did,) to sit around and think about it. And STILL they have no alternate plan.

"Obamacare," or, the Affordable Care Act, immediately insured some 20-24 million people, and they're pretty happy to have heath coverage. The Republicans are still pissed off, but offer nothing as an alternative. They certainly haven't tried to make it better. 10 years later! They just bitch about it.

Edit: This woman says it better, since you seem only to respond to tiktok:

'
 
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mrzz

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The person who created the video isn’t a “he”, and not even a “she/her”: she doesn’t identify as a woman because she’s doesn’t have to, she IS a woman, and it’s a short video worth watching. It’s tells a lot about how western activists really turn the screws when faced by weak political leadership..
Sorry, I couldn´t know that she was a she given that I did not watch the video at the time.. Anyway, I watched it now, and I see the point(s). The crux of it is cost efficiency. The cost per person is staggering. This should not be controversial. Even someone that is completely bought on the idea should consider that the same amount of money could house 10 times more people.

Now, should trans people get a larger piece of the cake (of homeless shelters)? I get that they need special attention. How much is invested should be carefully decided. It seems that the actual amount was simply the results of whatever satisfied the spoiled brat that sued the city.

By the way, some unelected person having those special powers, if true, is completely absurd.

But this is simply the way identity politics work: special groups get special attention. The underlying idea makes some sense, but the scale and the radicalism of the solutions offend basic common sense.
 

mrzz

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But why would it be a waste of money and energy?
Mainly because, as Brazilian football legend would say, you need to coordinate with the Russians first (he said that after his coach showed a game plan before a match against the Soviet Union). As we discussed in both our posts, you know that the fact that you provide shelter does not necessarily mean that people would accept it. Second, if the numbers mentioned in the video are true...

Let me put it this way: I have a trans friend that runs a ONG that specializes in inserting trans people in the "normal" job market. We disagree about a thousand things, but I guarantee you that with one tenth of that money she would change 10 times more lives...
 
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Moxie

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Mainly because, as Brazilian football legend would say, you need to coordinate with the Russians first (he said that after his coach showed a game plan before a match against the Soviet Union). As we discussed in both our posts, you know that the fact that you provide shelter does not necessarily mean that people would accept it. Second, if the numbers mentioned in the video are true...

Let me put it this way: I have a trans friend that runs a ONG that specializes in inserting trans people in the "normal" job market. We disagree about a thousand things, but I guarantee you that with one tenth of that money she would change 10 times more lives...
Yes, but I suggest you be careful about trusting the numbers from that video. It's obviously biased. I haven't had the time to really crunch the numbers, but I doubt that person did, either. Just building something costs a lot in NYC Then you have to staff it. That money is more likely a projection over time. We could all complain about how government dollars are spent, but a shelter for people in need is not money poorly spent.
 

Federberg

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Based on a lot of your posts, it probably is. :face-with-tears-of-joy:
lol! You do realise you're the only person in the room laughing at your "jokes" right?

Given that the Biden Administration did something adjacent.. it's not beyond the bounds for a deep blue state to do it. But yeah... cry laughing more :)
 

mrzz

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Yes, but I suggest you be careful about trusting the numbers from that video. It's obviously biased. I haven't had the time to really crunch the numbers, but I doubt that person did, either. Just building something costs a lot in NYC Then you have to staff it. That money is more likely a projection over time. We could all complain about how government dollars are spent, but a shelter for people in need is not money poorly spent.
Damn, in my post I mistyped and forgot to put the name of the legend. Right phrase is "as Brazilian football legend Garrincha would say, you need to coordinate with the Russians first (he said that after his coach showed a game plan before a match against the Soviet Union)."

About the money, we are in disagreement. You are judging it by the intentions, I am by the outcome.
 

Moxie

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lol! You do realise you're the only person in the room laughing at your "jokes" right?

Given that the Biden Administration did something adjacent.. it's not beyond the bounds for a deep blue state to do it. But yeah... cry laughing more :)
The LOL emoji is to tell you it's a joke, or a lighthearted remark, since you have no sense of humor. Anyway, I didn't watch that. Any post that you put up now with no more comment than "I hope this is fake news," well...life is too short. Do your own homework first, ok?
 

Federberg

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The LOL emoji is to tell you it's a joke, or a lighthearted remark, since you have no sense of humor. Anyway, I didn't watch that. Any post that you put up now with no more comment than "I hope this is fake news," well...life is too short. Do your own homework first, ok?
no need to justify your not looking at what others post. That's your M.O. most of the time :)
 

britbox

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