US Politics Thread

[Moxie]

I can't help reflecting on my concerns regarding the Trump election. I was worried about what would happen Ukraine, concerned about NATO. Worried that Trump would enable Bibi. Well here we are.

• Trump has finally had enough of Russia. Putin's disrespect and dismissal of Trump's desire for the war to end. Medvedev's mockery of Trump and nuclear sabre rattling. I don't think Trump will flip back. This has become personal for him now. Don't provoke a sociopath. I think Putin and Medvedev have badly miscalculated

Yes, Trump seems to have turned away from Putin, but he's reacted childishly and ill-advisedly to Medvedev's taunting by talk of moving "nuclear submarines" towards Russia. Yes, we already have some in strategic positions, but nuclear saber-rattling with Russia is unwise.

• All that has led to increasing support for Ukraine, and the Europeans have shown they're absolutely serious about taking more control of their own military interests (something that America will probably regret).

We agree that the Europeans being more self-determining, militarily, is a good thing. I'm not sure why you think the US may eventually regret that, unless you mean in terms of loss of leverage/power. We'll see. But it's not like Trump has been very generous towards Ukraine. His terrible attempt at negotiating a settlement that was very favorable towards Russia failed, and now he's lost interest, despite his promises to end the war day one.

• Bibi managed to goad Trump into bombing Iran, something that could blow back to the US in the long term, who knows. But the increasing clamour for a Palestinian State could end up being a disaster for Israeli right wingers. They want that land. I doubt they'll be able to get it. We shall see

I'm not sure what of this is good. If Trump could sway Netanyahu, how can he continue to let him starve those people in Gaza? Again, Trump seems to have lost interest.

But all of this makes me reflect... if I knew before the election that this was what the foreign policy outcomes would be, I would probably have hoped that the orange one would win the election. Can't believe I'm saying this. But the reality is I don't believe Kamala would have done better for Ukraine than this. In fact I think that there was a chance that Putin would have tried to test NATO with a direct confrontation because he would never have believed she would have the stones to stand up to him. At worst I find it hard to believe that she would have been more aggressive than Biden, who sabotaged the Ukrainian counter offensive, allowing innocents to be slaughtered. I'm so disgusted by that. I don't think she would have been any better.

It's hard to speculate what Harris would have tried or accomplished, but she'd have been on the side of Ukraine. Trump is only now giving more aid to Ukraine, and basically because he's pissed off at Russia.

So yes, on reflection, this might end up being the better outcome. It's not a certain thing though... the tariffs are an abomination that will be a long term disaster for America. The fiscal package is a disaster for America. Some things she would have done better. Although immigration would most definitely have continued to be a disaster. If only the left in America would come over to London and see what a shit show it is here with all this islamophobia nonsense (if you're concerned about the things that Muslims are allowed to do here the police can get in your business, but Muslims can protest about Christianity with no replicable sanctions, make it make sense!) they would understand that unfettered immigration has consequences.

I can understand if your interest is in US foreign policy, though I disagree with your observations that Trump is doing so well. However, as per your above, I live here, and Trump is making a mess of our economy. And his handling of deportations is inhumane, often illegal, and incredibly divisive. It also has an effect on the economy.

He's also effectively ended our status as the world leader in biomedical research, amongst other scientific research categories. The courts may restore the funds already promised, but the Republicans have cut future funding. On top of that, there will be a brain-drain of brilliant doctors, scientists, professors and students from abroad who come here to work, study, and contribute to important research, because this is where the money for it has long been. It will take time to fill in the gap. In the interim, people will die because potentially life-saving research was left unfinished.

PS, I'm extremely concerned that at the same time that Trump might just be making a huge mistake with China and Taiwan, so I reserve the right to change my view on this! Although I do believe that the lessons from the Russia-Ukraine War and the ousting of Xi from power have set back any timelines (barring utter recklessness and miscalculation... remember WW1?)

Let's see how this all shakes out in the longer term. It's only been 7 months, though it seems like an eternity. I'll be cool if you change your view. Or not.

 

[Kieran]

Sometimes it’s best to let the left speak for themselves on whether - by their own definition - they’re racist:



Presumably her lack of a denial is an admission that she is. These people are so fucking dumb, and smug with it…

 

[Moxie]

Sometimes it’s best to let the left speak for themselves on whether - by their own definition - they’re racist:



Presumably her lack of a denial is an admission that she is. These people are so fucking dumb, and smug with it…

This is a useless piece of theatre cooked up by Gill, presumably for exactly this purpose...of getting his clip on social media. Your clip is from his account. She actually said she's not a racist, K. Did you watch it? But he persists in distracting from the point at hand, the work of non-profits, and she refuses to participate in his display any further. It's not "by her own definition." That's why she says she won't respond to his question.

Actual white supremacists have been emboldened by Trump...they actively say that they finally have one of their own in the White House. And yet you keep looking for the racism on the left. SMH.

 

[Moxie]

ICE is haunting court houses to snag immigrants showing up for their deportation hearings, as they are required.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/08/03/nyregion/immigrant-arrests-courthouse.html?unlocked_article_code=1.bk8.aXhB.ZNCSSYdAbE2Z&smid=url-share

This guy has no criminal record. The judge heard his case, and set his next hearing for 2029. He was NOT ordered deported. But then masked agents grabbed him when he came out. Why masked? Why no ID? Why no arrest warrant? These are terrible precedents. It also makes a mockery of Trump's insistence that he was going to deport criminals.

(The link above should be a free share of the NY Times article.)

 

[Kieran]

This is a useless piece of theatre cooked up by Gill, presumably for exactly this purpose...of getting his clip on social media. Your clip is from his account. She actually said she's not a racist, K. Did you watch it? But he persists in distracting from the point at hand, the work of non-profits, and she refuses to participate in his display any further. It's not "by her own definition." That's why she says she won't respond to his question.

Actual white supremacists have been emboldened by Trump...they actively say that they finally have one of their own in the White House. And yet you keep looking for the racism on the left. SMH.

He actually quite beautifully hoisted her by her own petard. Of course you’re not going to like that. She’s a bonkers pandering leftist. You don’t find it improper or disgusting that one of her organisations says such a farcical Orwellian thing, in order to trap white people with the usual crap that grovelling left wingers love to.

As for me, that I “keep on looking for racism on the left”, I don’t - but it’s not that difficult to find. It seems to be everywhere in fact..

 

[Moxie]

He actually quite beautifully hoisted her by her own petard. Of course you’re not going to like that. She’s a bonkers pandering leftist. You don’t find it improper or disgusting that one of her organisations says such a farcical Orwellian thing, in order to trap white people with the usual crap that grovelling left wingers love to.

As for me, that I “keep on looking for racism on the left”, I don’t - but it’s not that difficult to find. It seems to be everywhere in fact..

I'm stunned at you. What "farcical, Orwellian thing did one of her organizations say?" And you don't find that Congressman to be bullying and wildly off-topic? It isn't anything related to why she's called there. He's clearly prepping his Instagram video. If you can't see any of that, we really do see the world differently, when it comes to politics.

 

[Kieran]

I'm stunned at you. What "farcical, Orwellian thing did one of her organizations say?" And you don't find that Congressman to be bullying and wildly off-topic? It isn't anything related to why she's called there. He's clearly prepping his Instagram video. If you can't see any of that, we really do see the world differently, when it comes to politics.

He’s not, he’s referring to something she didn’t deny, which is that an organisation she’s affiliated to believes that when ol’ Whitey denies he’s racist this is proof that he’s a white supremacist.

These people are crooked and live in a bubble, one you never criticise. Outside the bubble are men like him exposing their BS. Forget that she didn’t deny she’s a white supremacist - focus on the detail that she didn’t deny such baloney propaganda exists.

Whatever she’s sitting there for, he’s showing she’s unsuitable…

 

[Moxie]

He’s not, he’s referring to something she didn’t deny, which is that an organisation she’s affiliated to believes that when ol’ Whitey denies he’s racist this is proof that he’s a white supremacist.

These people are crooked and live in a bubble, one you never criticise. Outside the bubble are men like him exposing their BS. Forget that she didn’t deny she’s a white supremacist - focus on the detail that she didn’t deny such baloney propaganda exists.

Whatever she’s sitting there for, he’s showing she’s unsuitable…

You don't even know why she's there? Lacking context, you might not just grab a right-wing clip off the internet. Look, if some group says that denial of racism is de facto proof that a person is a covert white supremacist, that clearly goes too far, and I agree that it's Orwellian. Because then there is no denying of anything to satisfy them. But you're doing the same.

There, you can please stop telling me I don't criticize things. That's the same thing you're complaining about. Damned by what I don't say. What do you want me to criticize about a "bubble?" You're the one that believes in it and defines it. Personally, I don't see how you can be both "crooked," a cynical posture, AND "live in a bubble," which is an idealistic one.

She's there to talk about the work of NGOs and non-profits and to make the case. He is setting a trap for her, and she's trying not to go with his clear agenda for his his allotted time. It's hard to blame her for that. There probably ARE non-profits that shouldn't hold such status with the government. This doesn't change the fact that the Trump administration is going overboard with defunding NGOs that have saved many lives, like USAID, which has saved many lives, and has done good work for US soft diplomacy globally.

This committee is not there to combat waste. Nor was DOGE. They have a clear political agenda, and it's to dump everything they see as liberal, progressive, and basically anything else that Trump and MAGA disagrees with.

 

[Kieran]

You don't even know why she's there? Lacking context, you might not just grab a right-wing clip off the internet. Look, if some group says that denial of racism is de facto proof that a person is a covert white supremacist, that clearly goes too far, and I agree that it's Orwellian. Because then there is no denying of anything to satisfy them. But you're doing the same.

There, you can please stop telling me I don't criticize things. That's the same thing you're complaining about. Damned by what I don't say. What do you want me to criticize about a "bubble?" You're the one that believes in it and defines it. Personally, I don't see how you can be both "crooked," a cynical posture, AND "live in a bubble," which is an idealistic one.

She's there to talk about the work of NGOs and non-profits and to make the case. He is setting a trap for her, and she's trying not to go with his clear agenda for his his allotted time. It's hard to blame her for that. There probably ARE non-profits that shouldn't hold such status with the government. This doesn't change the fact that the Trump administration is going overboard with defunding NGOs that have saved many lives, like USAID, which has saved many lives, and has done good work for US soft diplomacy globally.

This committee is not there to combat waste. Nor was DOGE. They have a clear political agenda, and it's to dump everything they see as liberal, progressive, and basically anything else that Trump and MAGA disagrees with.

You think “clear political agendas” are only on one side of the aisle? If you do, then there’s no talking to you.

It’s irrelevant to me why she’s there. She could be there to do the ironing for all I care. You’re missing the point. The point is that she’s accused of being involved with an organisation that tells us that if whitey denies being racist it’s proof that they’re white supremacist. She doesn’t take offence at this, and she doesn’t deny it.

That’s the question he’s really asking. That’s what he’s telling us and she didn’t deny it.

It’s innovative in your part though, to say that the left have gone “too far.” We ought to bookmark this one..

 

[Moxie]

Trump has sent the National Guard to DC? The last time I remember this was in 1968 when Martin Luther King was assassinated, and there were riots. It is my understanding that crime is actually down in DC. This feels like Trump is declaring martial law on cities in blue states/districts. It's outrageous and unnecessary.

 

[Federberg]

Trump has sent the National Guard to DC? The last time I remember this was in 1968 when Martin Luther King was assassinated, and there were riots. It is my understanding that crime is actually down in DC. This feels like Trump is declaring martial law on cities in blue states/districts. It's outrageous and unnecessary.

he really seems to be eroding democratic norms. I don't think this will work well for him, but does it matter in the bigger scheme of things? The point, as you're rightly concerned about, is that more damage is being done. I rather suspect this might be a pre-emptive controversy to dominate the headlines. My initial optimism about a break in the Putin-Trump relationship seems rather naive now. If, as I suspect, this meeting ends up being a farce, people, domestically might be more focused on DC than Alaska...

 

[Federberg]

No lies were told. I would just add that gerrymandering is as bad as Citizens United

 

[Moxie]

he really seems to be eroding democratic norms. I don't think this will work well for him, but does it matter in the bigger scheme of things? The point, as you're rightly concerned about, is that more damage is being done.

This I agree with, and I think it's very worrying. And, yes I DO think it matters, in the bigger scheme. There is absolutely no reason for him to deploy the National Guard in DC. As there was none in LA. And there is a law that prevents the National Guard from acting as police. Trump is reasserting his notion of "lawlessness" and "danger" in big cities, particularly in blue states. I fear he's going for martial law.

The last time that happened in DC was when Martin Luther King, Jr. was assassinated. I lived in DC, and am old enough to remember that. There were riots, and the city was burning.

It is worth remembering that Trump didn't call on the National Guard on Jan. 6th, 2021, when there was real peril, including to our democracy. Right-wing social media keeps trying to pin that on Nancy Pelosi.

I rather suspect this might be a pre-emptive controversy to dominate the headlines. My initial optimism about a break in the Putin-Trump relationship seems rather naive now. If, as I suspect, this meeting ends up being a farce, people, domestically might be more focused on DC than Alaska...

I'm a little confused. Is it eroding democratic norms, or just a distraction? I'm not dissing you, just trying to see how you're having it both ways. Either this is concerning, in terms of democracy, or it's not. And I think it is.

As far as Putin, yes, perhaps thinking that Trump's obsession with him, and conciliatory position towards him had waned WAS a bit naive. Will domestic issues mask failures in international diplomacy? They always do, here in the US, or mostly. But I don't think he's deploying the National Guard in DC for that reason. He sows chaos all the time.. To deflect attention from everything else. But it's not just one thing for another. It's everything. All the time. He's a chaos agent, and a terrible manager.

 

[Moxie]

No lies were told. I would just add that gerrymandering is as bad as Citizens United

I don't think gerrymandering is as bad as Citizens United, though. At least gerrymandering is there for all to see. And it's kind of small potatoes. Citizens United allowed for the Super-pacs, and influence by the rich which doesn't have to be disclosed. It has changed the course of our elections.

 

[Federberg]

This I agree with, and I think it's very worrying. And, yes I DO think it matters, in the bigger scheme. There is absolutely no reason for him to deploy the National Guard in DC. As there was none in LA. And there is a law that prevents the National Guard from acting as police. Trump is reasserting his notion of "lawlessness" and "danger" in big cities, particularly in blue states. I fear he's going for martial law.

The last time that happened in DC was when Martin Luther King, Jr. was assassinated. I lived in DC, and am old enough to remember that. There were riots, and the city was burning.

It is worth remembering that Trump didn't call on the National Guard on Jan. 6th, 2021, when there was real peril, including to our democracy. Right-wing social media keeps trying to pin that on Nancy Pelosi.

I'm a little confused. Is it eroding democratic norms, or just a distraction? I'm not dissing you, just trying to see how you're having it both ways. Either this is concerning, in terms of democracy, or it's not. And I think it is.

As far as Putin, yes, perhaps thinking that Trump's obsession with him, and conciliatory position towards him had waned WAS a bit naive. Will domestic issues mask failures in international diplomacy? They always do, here in the US, or mostly. But I don't think he's deploying the National Guard in DC for that reason. He sows chaos all the time.. To deflect attention from everything else. But it's not just one thing for another. It's everything. All the time. He's a chaos agent, and a terrible manager.

Not sure where the confusion is, his actions are eroding democratic norms. But he’s not doing it for that purpose, that’s just a byproduct. Trump is doing it to control the headlines and distract from his failures that would damage his reputation

 

[Moxie]

Not sure where the confusion is, his actions are eroding democratic norms. But he’s not doing it for that purpose, that’s just a byproduct. Trump is doing it to control the headlines and distract from his failures that would damage his reputation

OK, I see. But I kind disagree that he's not doing it to undercut democracy. He likes having power, and he likes wielding it. This is him telling blue cities who's boss. IMO. Though I do agree that there's always an element of distraction in the chaos that he sews. But you do overestimate how much most in the US will care about the talks with Putin. He would feel less of a need to distract from that than, say, inflation, which he promised to fix, but can't, and the economic uncertainty associated with his tariffs. Oh, and the cuts to Medicaid. To name a few domestic things that are fretting people here.

 

[Federberg]

OK, I see. But I kind disagree that he's not doing it to undercut democracy. He likes having power, and he likes wielding it. This is him telling blue cities who's boss. IMO. Though I do agree that there's always an element of distraction in the chaos that he sews. But you do overestimate how much most in the US will care about the talks with Putin. He would feel less of a need to distract from that than, say, inflation, which he promised to fix, but can't, and the economic uncertainty associated with his tariffs. Oh, and the cuts to Medicaid. To name a few domestic things that are fretting people here.

oh don't get me wrong. The distractions are for anything that's not going well for him, whether it's the economy or Russia or whatever.

But I think you seriously overestimate Trump if you think he's doing anything specifically to undercut democracy. He's simply not that deep! If there's an obstacle in his way, Hulk smash!

 

[Moxie]

oh don't get me wrong. The distractions are for anything that's not going well for him, whether it's the economy or Russia or whatever.

But I think you seriously overestimate Trump if you think he's doing anything specifically to undercut democracy. He's simply not that deep! If there's an obstacle in his way, Hulk smash!

We do mostly agree. I do believe that his basic activating principle is "bull in a china shop." Have a thought, react to it. But he also has the 2025 playbook. Whether he has a deep belief in that or not, he uses it as a guide. Therefore, he is being manipulated by the forces that would undermine democracy. He's easily manipulated by flattery. And by rich people.

 

[Federberg]

We do mostly agree. I do believe that his basic activating principle is "bull in a china shop." Have a thought, react to it. But he also has the 2025 playbook. Whether he has a deep belief in that or not, he uses it as a guide. Therefore, he is being manipulated by the forces that would undermine democracy. He's easily manipulated by flattery. And by rich people.

Ah! Project 2025. You’re still trying to assign specific intent to him in my opinion. There are groups that have attached themselves to him, tech bros etc But the only things Trump really believes in are tariffs and immigration. The man doesn’t understand democracy or the constitution, the worst one can lay against him are the groups he associates with

 

[Moxie]

Ah! Project 2025. You’re still trying to assign specific intent to him in my opinion. There are groups that have attached themselves to him, tech bros etc But the only things Trump really believes in are tariffs and immigration. The man doesn’t understand democracy or the constitution, the worst one can lay against him are the groups he associates with

But that's what I mean. Someone else had a nefarious intent with it, Trump just uses it as a playbook, not a policy.