Tignor on Wawrinka...
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Moxie
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Good try by Tignor, but I don't think Stan is underestimated. I'd say he's accurately estimated, at this point in time. He can be dangerous, and yes, he can be inconsistent. I'd say his coaches, esp. Norman, have done a great job getting him to the top of his potential. He's not young, though, and I don't know how long he stays dangerous. I'd say two more years.
El Dude
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He's a difficult player to assess. For one, he has a top-heavy resume, with three Slam titles but only one Masters and a couple ATP 500s, and no year-end finishes above #4. On the other hand, when he's on his game he's more dangerous than anyone on tour except The Big Three, and only when those guys are playing their best.
As far as his historical placement goes, I still see him behind Jim Courier, Arthur Ashe, Guillermo Vilas, Ilie Nastase and Andy Murray. He seems to be more in the group with Stan Smith, Gustavo Kuerten, Lleyton Hewitt, Andy Roddick, and Marat Safin, but with a distinctly unique resume. Another Slam title or a couple more Masters probably puts him up in that first "lesser greats" group.
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As far as his historical placement goes, I still see him behind Jim Courier, Arthur Ashe, Guillermo Vilas, Ilie Nastase and Andy Murray. He seems to be more in the group with Stan Smith, Gustavo Kuerten, Lleyton Hewitt, Andy Roddick, and Marat Safin, but with a distinctly unique resume. Another Slam title or a couple more Masters probably puts him up in that first "lesser greats" group.
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Moxie
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I agree it's a "unique resume," and it's hard to know what he's capable of getting up to the short-term. I don't like his chances for the career Slam, a la Sharapova. But until some of the younger players fill in the cracks, he's reasonably placed to do damage, however mercurial.
mrzz
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I cannot follow the link, so I´ll comment only the "underestimated" aspect. I agree he is underestimated, given how high can he peak. I use to joke a lot with the "peak Wawrinka > peak Murray" thing, but the point is that "peak Wawrinka", (even if that is a guy who doesn´t show much) could give anyone a run for his money. It is even hard to understand how the hell he does that. I mean, when he is being beaten by the Nishiokas of the world, it does not surprise me that he looks a bit slow, and that it seems that he always takes the wrong decisions. What surprises me is that he looks exactly the same odd player when he is beating Djokovic, Federer and Nadal.
Therefore, I do not think it is safe to predict anything for him. He is even appearing to be a bit more consistent, and is a solid #3 both in the rankings and in the race. The way the ATP is unfolding, I find it much more likely to see him winning slams in the next two years than anyone from the younger generation(s).
I really haven´t read Tignor´s piece, but I can bet he wrote about his reaction in IW, about how it shows that he is far from satisfied with the runner up spot. It is almost an instant clichè. And probably quite right.
Therefore, I do not think it is safe to predict anything for him. He is even appearing to be a bit more consistent, and is a solid #3 both in the rankings and in the race. The way the ATP is unfolding, I find it much more likely to see him winning slams in the next two years than anyone from the younger generation(s).
I really haven´t read Tignor´s piece, but I can bet he wrote about his reaction in IW, about how it shows that he is far from satisfied with the runner up spot. It is almost an instant clichè. And probably quite right.
Federberg
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I'm continually amused that we keep trying to place time limits to modern players. Has Roger not taught us already that the old rules no longer apply?
Federberg
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I don't think it's a joke at all. Peak Wawrinka is definitely stronger than Murray. He's proved it, and the eye test would seal it anyway. Stanimal would go out to win against the Big 3, Andy sadly would not
Hewitt and Safin same group? nahhhhh. leave it up to the experts when it comes to putting players into groups and tiers.
Stan playing his best level is maybe even higher than Novak playing his best level, as shown in 2014-2016 meetings where during Novak's best run Stan's level was overall slightly higher. I think it has a lot to do with how they match up though, as Novak likes to play consistent hard hitting and Stan loves pounding it when that happens....that's when he can really get all his guns out firing.
Difficult to compare to Rafa though, as Rafa hasn't played his best level vs peak Stan in recent meetings. Against Federer, it's obvious that Roger plays a way that doesn't allow Stan to get into that mode of insane hitting, as Roger would deliberately play shots that throw him off the rhythm.
Difficult to compare to Rafa though, as Rafa hasn't played his best level vs peak Stan in recent meetings. Against Federer, it's obvious that Roger plays a way that doesn't allow Stan to get into that mode of insane hitting, as Roger would deliberately play shots that throw him off the rhythm.
