Span of Slam titles and the Big Four

El Dude

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One way to get a rough estimate of a great player's broad prime years is to look at the span in which they won Slams. Now his is by no means very accurate in determining how good a player was in a given year; for instance, Rod Laver stopped winning Slams in 1969, but remained arguably the best player in tennis for another year or two, and a top player for half a decade or more. The problem is that he stopped playing in many Slams due to political and personal reasons, and focused his time on other tournaments.

Or we can look at Roger Federer, who hasn't won a Slam since 2012 but finished #2 and #3 in 2014-15, clearly still a top player. Or Ivan Lendl, who didn't win his first Slam until 1984 but was one of the best players for several years before that. There are other instances of this.

But Slam spans gives us something to chew on, and I'm more interested in it in terms of precedents and trends: How long of a period do great players tend to win their Slams within? What's the typical window?

For this I looked first at the Open Era, although with several players stretched further back before the Open Era. The Open Era 6+ Slam winners, ranked by order of "Slam Title Span":

20 Ken Rosewall (1953-72)
13 Pete Sampras (1990-02)
12 Boris Becker (1985-86)
12 Andre Agassi (1992-03)
10 Rod Laver (1960-69)
10 Jimmy Connors (1974-83)
10 Roger Federer (2003-12)
10 Rafael Nadal (2005-14)
9 John Newcombe (1967-75)
9 Novak Djokovic (2008-16)
8 Bjorn Borg (1974-81)
7 Ivan Lendl (1984-90)
7 Mats Wilander (1982-88)
7 Stefan Edberg (1985-91)
6 John McEnroe (1979-84)

Some interesting things to note. First of all, how about that Ken Rosewall - what amazing longevity. He won his first Slams at age 18, his last at 37. It is also interesting that his span range is twice that of his better rival, which I pointed out in the generation series, I believe. Secondly, what a short flash McEnroe was - only six years. Finally, of these players only one of them never had a multi-Slam year: Stefan Edberg. Every other 6+ Slam winner of the Open Era had at least one year in which they won multiple Slams.

OK, let's look beyond the Open Era. As above, this includes players with at least 5 Slam titles:

16 Bill Tilden (1920-35)
14 Pancho Gonzales (1948-61)
11 William Larned (1901-11)
11 Henri Cochet (1926-36)
11 Bobby Riggs (1939-49)
10 Frank Sedgman (1949-58)
9 William Renshaw (1881-89)
9 Fred Perry (1933-41)
9 Ellsworth Vines (1931-39)
8 Tony Wilding (1906-13)
7 Richard Sears (1881-87)
7 Tony Trabert (1953-59)
7 Roy Emerson (1961-67)
6 Don Budge (1937-42)
5 Laurence Doherty (1902-06)
5 Rene Lacoste (1925-29)
5 Jack Crawford (1931-35)

So the range is similar to the Open Era. We can look at the pure numbers:

20 yrs: 1 player
16 yrs: 1 player
14 yrs: 1 player
13 yrs: 1 player
12 yrs: 2 players
11 yrs: 3 players
10 yrs: 5 players
9 yrs: 5 players
8 yrs: 2 players
7 yrs: 6 players
6 yrs: 2 players
5 yrs: 3 players

Now what I find interesting there, is that you have only one player for years 13 and higher, and then it builds up to a larger number in the 9-10 range, a dip at 8 years, and then a lot at 7 again, and then a smaller number at 5-6 years. So the largest group seems to be in the 7-10 year range.

Let's look at our three active greats. Roger and Rafa are stuck at 10 years, and Novak is at 9 years. If Roger wins a Slam in 2017, all of a sudden his range jumps to 15 years, more than any player other than Bill Tilden and Ken Rosewall. Put in that light, it seems highly unlikely that he'll accomplish the feat...but if anyone can do it, Roger can. Rafa would jump to 13, which would tie him with Sampras, and Novak would extend his to 10 - which seems very likely.

But I think the key here is the rarity over 12 years. Roger's 12th year would have been 2014; Rafa's would have been 2016, and Novak's will be 2019. Something to keep in mind.

And Andy Murray? He won his first in 2012, so is at 5.
 

sid

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Cmon Dude you know it's now only a big 2.
 

Kieran

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Interesting how in the dogfight years of the 80's, more or less, when maybe the field was at its most top-heavy, and the surfaces the most extreme, we have Lendl, Mats, Mac and Edberg each on a 6-7 year winning span, then nothing. Becker's 12 is unusual - most of them years he's broom-cupboarding his career, or throwing tantrums, or basically ducking the implications of his famous breakthrough, until after a barren few years, he had a great 1996...
 

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Kieran said:
Interesting how in the dogfight years of the 80's, more or less, when maybe the field was at its most top-heavy, and the surfaces the most extreme, we have Lendl, Mats, Mac and Edberg each on a 6-7 year winning span, then nothing. Becker's 12 is unusual - most of them years he's broom-cupboarding his career, or throwing tantrums, or basically ducking the implications of his famous breakthrough, until after a barren few years, he had a great 1996...

Once I read broom-cupboarding his career, I was reading everything else trying to work out if what you said was a related pun !! Try it I actually think it does !!! :)
 

El Dude

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Kieran said:
Interesting how in the dogfight years of the 80's, more or less, when maybe the field was at its most top-heavy, and the surfaces the most extreme, we have Lendl, Mats, Mac and Edberg each on a 6-7 year winning span, then nothing. Becker's 12 is unusual - most of them years he's broom-cupboarding his career, or throwing tantrums, or basically ducking the implications of his famous breakthrough, until after a barren few years, he had a great 1996...

I don't think this is entirely fair. Yes, he had a big Slam-less gap between 1991 and 1996, but he won a bunch of other tournaments in 92-95, including two Masters Cups, a couple Masters, and a bunch of other titles, and was generally in the top 5.

But yeah, the '96 Slam is a bit of an outlier. He was lucky in that he didn't have to face either of the two best and top-seeded players, Agassi and Sampras.
 

El Dude

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Average span of Open Era greats: 9.5 years

Average span of Pre-Open Era greats: 8.8 years

Average span of all greats: 9.1 years
 

Kieran

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El Dude said:
Kieran said:
Interesting how in the dogfight years of the 80's, more or less, when maybe the field was at its most top-heavy, and the surfaces the most extreme, we have Lendl, Mats, Mac and Edberg each on a 6-7 year winning span, then nothing. Becker's 12 is unusual - most of them years he's broom-cupboarding his career, or throwing tantrums, or basically ducking the implications of his famous breakthrough, until after a barren few years, he had a great 1996...

I don't think this is entirely fair. Yes, he had a big Slam-less gap between 1991 and 1996, but he won a bunch of other tournaments in 92-95, including two Masters Cups, a couple Masters, and a bunch of other titles, and was generally in the top 5.

But yeah, the '96 Slam is a bit of an outlier. He was lucky in that he didn't have to face either of the two best and top-seeded players, Agassi and Sampras.

Yeah but see, Becker could have had a career of Sampras-sized proportions. Had he the same mentality as Borg, or Pete, he'd have reached double figures by 1990, but within Boris frail and huge ego, there was accommodated the ability to lose, and still enjoy himself. Boris was the magnanimous great who invented the losers lap of honour. Boris gave us the phrase, after losing to Doohan at Wimbledon in 1987, that "nobody died out there."

Rafa once said something similar after a loss but the look in his eye suggested "but next time they will!"

Boris is one guy I was rigged up to fancy as a champ after Borg left, (although Mats helped out there), but after winning 2 slams by age 18, he only 4 more in the next 13 years. It wasn't enough for a player of his outstanding power, and qualities...
 

El Dude

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Absolutely. In a way he and his closest peer, Edberg, were polar opposites but ended up with very similar results. Edberg was talented, but not ridiculously so, and probably maximized his talents. Boris, not so much.

On the other hand, with performance we cannot separate out natural talents from mentality. We can look at the Nalbandians and Safins and Beckers of the world, and say: you should have won more. But the reason people win, and win regularly, has a lot to do with mentality. It is a crucial component of greatness.
 

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Yeah, good comparison with edberg. That was two Wimbledon titles I felt Boris should have taken in 3 or 4, and yet Edberg was the more honest, and he beat Becker twice. Stefan maxed his career, but Boris got nowhere near that...
 

the AntiPusher

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Kieran said:
Yeah, good comparison with edberg. That was two Wimbledon titles I felt Boris should have taken in 3 or 4, and yet Edberg was the more honest, and he beat Becker twice. Stefan maxed his career, but Boris got nowhere near that...

Finally Someone finally got it correct about Edberg. I know Pete and Boris both had looses to Edberg that they know they should have won.
 

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the AntiPusher said:
Kieran said:
Yeah, good comparison with edberg. That was two Wimbledon titles I felt Boris should have taken in 3 or 4, and yet Edberg was the more honest, and he beat Becker twice. Stefan maxed his career, but Boris got nowhere near that...

Finally Someone finally got it correct about Edberg. I know Pete and Boris both had looses to Edberg that they know they should have won.

Pete lost to Edberg when he was young and still finding his level, but Becker was the senior guy there, he had huge swagger and was ready that year (1988) to finally explode and blow everyone away. Unfortunately, 1987 + Doohan showed us why he wouldn't... :nono
 

El Dude

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It was a tough context to play in. We've talked about this before, but the late 80s was just brutal. You had Wilander, Lendl, Becker, and Edberg all in their primes. Connors and McEnroe were still good, at least at times. Sampras and Agassi were rising towards the end, plus with glimmers of Chang and Courier, Stich and Muster. Plus some talented second tier players in Mecir, Cash, Leconte, Carlsson.

In the ATP ranking era (1973-2016), there have been only four years in which all of the year-end top 5 were all all-time great 6+ Slam winners: 1985, 1987, 1988, 1990. That is, four out of the six years between 1985-90.

Connors, McEnroe, Lendl, Wilander, Edberg, Becker, Agassi, and Sampras all ranked in the top 5 at some point during that span of six years.
 

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El Dude said:
In the ATP ranking era (1973-2016), there have been only four years in which all of the year-end top 5 were all all-time great 6+ Slam winners: 1985, 1987, 1988, 1990. That is, four out of the six years between 1985-90.

That's a great and interesting stat, buddy, thanks!