Should Players get Wild Cards after a doping ban?

[Moxie]

Maria Sharapova has been given WCs in to several tournaments as she begins to come back from her ban. Andy Murray has waded in with his opinion. What do we think?

http://www.bbc.com/sport/tennis/39127152

 

[DarthFed]

He makes a good point but then again I'm someone who thinks someone caught doling should be banned at least two years for first offense and permanently banned for the second.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

I totally agree with Murray's comments.What about players that have worked hard to get a WC into various tournaments,are not drug cheats like Sharapova who now gets Wild Cards into tournaments,because at the end of the day it is all about 'bums on seats' thinking that Sharapova a former Top Player will get tennis fans wanting to watch her matches.I for one will not be watching her matches,I have never been a fan.

 

[Moxie]

While I'm inclined to agree, there is the argument that she did her suspension, paid her time. And that tournaments will do what's best for them. However, I do fine that cynical, and that it sends a wrong message as to tennis, and its attitude towards cheats. Overall, I'd say she should work her way back, without the assistance of WCs.

 

[Nekro]

And then add the questionability of the ban itself, the substance she got "caught" with got banned just recently, it was developed as a medicine to begin with , her staff was negligent with the new list that's all ..

As for not watching her matches anymore, just lol!!! I like Andy, actually i'm a fan of his but he should just shut his mouth about this, he can only wish to become the tennis player Maria is.... I've watched tons of interviews with WTA players and their coaches and lots of coaches told the players to play like Maria, she's so good.

You know Maria has great technique, that can't be achieved by doping.....


This whole mess was a cold war stunt for the brain dead. Since it was a newly banned substance and it's obvious with the new testing methods she was gonna get "caught" with substances on the list a pro player like her, especially past the peak of her career wouldn't have risked something like what she went through because of the "let's hate on Russia" propaganda bs

 

[Federberg]

While I'm inclined to agree, there is the argument that she did her suspension, paid her time. And that tournaments will do what's best for them. However, I do fine that cynical, and that it sends a wrong message as to tennis, and its attitude towards cheats. Overall, I'd say she should work her way back, without the assistance of WCs.

Well if you take your view (doing your time) to it's natural conclusion, she should also do her time climbing up the rankings when she's back surely? Getting a free pass when you're out of jail doesn't exactly seem like respect for the punishment to me

 

[Nekro]

Something for the so-called "tennis fans": the real dopers, Serena and Venus!!! They were taking real dope, not medicine which got put on the list recently:

http://www.tennisnow.com/News/2016/September/Williams-Sisters-Drug-Records-Leaked,-WADA-Confir.aspx

Now aren't you gonna watch Serena or Venus matches either? "tennis fans"

 

[britbox]

And then add the questionability of the ban itself, the substance she got "caught" with got banned just recently, it was developed as a medicine to begin with , her staff was negligent with the new list that's all ..

As for not watching her matches anymore, just lol!!! I like Andy, actually i'm a fan of his but he should just shut his mouth about this, he can only wish to become the tennis player Maria is.... I've watched tons of interviews with WTA players and their coaches and lots of coaches told the players to play like Maria, she's so good.

You know Maria has great technique, that can't be achieved by doping.....


This whole mess was a cold war stunt for the brain dead. Since it was a newly banned substance and it's obvious with the new testing methods she was gonna get "caught" with substances on the list a pro player like her, especially past the peak of her career wouldn't have risked something like what she went through because of the "let's hate on Russia" propaganda bs

There are a few different strands to doping IMO... we have legal doping, doping using illegal products with an exemption, illegal doping without exemption...

Starting with Sharapova... She tried to take control of the narrative with that press conference, admitted taking the drug after the deadline through negligence but then went on to state she had been taking it for years for heart-related medicinal purposes. She made two mistakes:

1) She said it was for "medicinal purposes"... we later found out a load of Ukranian, Russian and ex-Soviet block athletes were caught using the same drug. All these elite athletes have heart problems? I doubt it very much. Too much of a coincidence.

2) She admitted taking it after the deadline. This wasn't a smart move on her part, as some fellow athletes have said they tested positive because the drug stayed in their system from taking before the deadline... and WADA don't have sufficient evidence to argue that the situation is not possible.

Verdict: Sharapova took a Performance Enhancing Drug, probably negligence from her or her team that she continued taking it after the deadline, but it's clearly for enhancing performance nevertheless. IMO... Guilty as charged.

---

Exemption Certificates are a farce. They should be removed from all sports. They are basically a pass to use banned products. The figures for elite British athletes with "asthma" is ridiculous. Equally as ridiculous as the number of Russian athletes with heart issues. Athletes allowed take banned substances because they've been diagnosed with ADHD? Seriously, it's ridiculous.

---

Athletes, coaches, sporting bodies will all push it to the level they are allowed to get away with. Taking Iron shots after a match isn't illegal, but is it ethical? Sampras was on an intravenous drip to rehydrate before a grand slam final with Edberg? Was that ethical?

Ethical or not, they will take anything they can get away with... all of them will.

So, in sport you have to just look at the banned list and class that as illegal doping. Get rid of the exemptions and go hard on those who get caught with a banned substance in the system.

As for Murray's comments... I'd be inclined to agree with him. No wildcards for them , stick them in the qualifiers.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

There are a few different strands to doping IMO... we have legal doping, doping using illegal products with an exemption, illegal doping without exemption...

Starting with Sharapova... She tried to take control of the narrative with that press conference, admitted taking the drug after the deadline through negligence but then went on to state she had been taking it for years for heart-related medicinal purposes. She made two mistakes:

1) She said it was for "medicinal purposes"... we later found out a load of Ukranian, Russian and ex-Soviet block athletes were caught using the same drug. All these elite athletes have heart problems? I doubt it very much. Too much of a coincidence.

2) She admitted taking it after the deadline. This wasn't a smart move on her part, as some fellow athletes have said they tested positive because the drug stayed in their system from taking before the deadline... and WADA don't have sufficient evidence to argue that the situation is not possible.

Verdict: Sharapova took a Performance Enhancing Drug, probably negligence from her or her team that she continued taking it after the deadline, but it's clearly for enhancing performance nevertheless. IMO... Guilty as charged.

---

Exemption Certificates are a farce. They should be removed from all sports. They are basically a pass to use banned products. The figures for elite British athletes with "asthma" is ridiculous. Equally as ridiculous as the number of Russian athletes with heart issues. Athletes allowed take banned substances because they've been diagnosed with ADHD? Seriously, it's ridiculous.

---

Athletes, coaches, sporting bodies will all push it to the level they are allowed to get away with. Taking Iron shots after a match isn't illegal, but is it ethical? Sampras was on an intravenous drip to rehydrate before a grand slam final with Edberg? Was that ethical?

Ethical or not, they will take anything they can get away with... all of them will.

So, in sport you have to just look at the banned list and class that as illegal doping. Get rid of the exemptions and go hard on those who get caught with a banned substance in the system.

As for Murray's comments... I'd be inclined to agree with him. No wildcards for them , stick them in the qualifiers.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Thanks Britbox you have summed up exactly what my reply was to be,also being in the medical profession I know exactly what this drug is all about.I also read today that the officials at Roland Garos are not about to give Sharapova a Wild Card,I hope they do not,let her go through qualifers.

 

[Nekro]

There are a few different strands to doping IMO... we have legal doping, doping using illegal products with an exemption, illegal doping without exemption...

Starting with Sharapova... She tried to take control of the narrative with that press conference, admitted taking the drug after the deadline through negligence but then went on to state she had been taking it for years for heart-related medicinal purposes. She made two mistakes:

1) She said it was for "medicinal purposes"... we later found out a load of Ukranian, Russian and ex-Soviet block athletes were caught using the same drug. All these elite athletes have heart problems? I doubt it very much. Too much of a coincidence.

2) She admitted taking it after the deadline. This wasn't a smart move on her part, as some fellow athletes have said they tested positive because the drug stayed in their system from taking before the deadline... and WADA don't have sufficient evidence to argue that the situation is not possible.

Verdict: Sharapova took a Performance Enhancing Drug, probably negligence from her or her team that she continued taking it after the deadline, but it's clearly for enhancing performance nevertheless. IMO... Guilty as charged.

---

Exemption Certificates are a farce. They should be removed from all sports. They are basically a pass to use banned products. The figures for elite British athletes with "asthma" is ridiculous. Equally as ridiculous as the number of Russian athletes with heart issues. Athletes allowed take banned substances because they've been diagnosed with ADHD? Seriously, it's ridiculous.

---

Athletes, coaches, sporting bodies will all push it to the level they are allowed to get away with. Taking Iron shots after a match isn't illegal, but is it ethical? Sampras was on an intravenous drip to rehydrate before a grand slam final with Edberg? Was that ethical?

Ethical or not, they will take anything they can get away with... all of them will.

So, in sport you have to just look at the banned list and class that as illegal doping. Get rid of the exemptions and go hard on those who get caught with a banned substance in the system.

As for Murray's comments... I'd be inclined to agree with him. No wildcards for them , stick them in the qualifiers.

However, people are not getting (or they don't want to get) the big picture here. Sure, sure, once on the list it shouldn't be taken.

But WADA are very biased.

As the leaks confirm Americans were doping too but the WADA let is slide.

Like the Williams sisters.

Agassi was taking meth they let is slide.

Sharapova took this medicine (which btw let her preserve her female, human form which can't be said about some American competitors for example) and the anti-russian media humiliates Sharapova for it. See the bias?


The WADA lets all slide for the Americans but still not biased enough, some American sports don't even recognize WADA, American sports are so filled with and dependent on doping, but hey, let's troll the Russians, just lol.

 

[britbox]

However, people are not getting (or they don't want to get) the big picture here. Sure, sure, once on the list it shouldn't be taken.

But WADA are very biased.

As the leaks confirm Americans were doping too but the WADA let is slide.

Like the Williams sisters.

Agassi was taking meth they let is slide.

Sharapova took this medicine (which btw let her preserve her female, human form which can't be said about some American competitors for example) and the anti-russian media humiliates Sharapova for it. See the bias?


The WADA lets all slide for the Americans but still not biased enough, some American sports don't even recognize WADA, American sports are so filled with and dependent on doping, but hey, let's troll the Russians, just lol.

The Williams sisters had exemption certificates (I don't agree with exemption certificates BTW) but they put you on the opposite side of the hedge when it comes to doping. It's not a like for like comparison. Sharapova did not have an exemption and took PEDs.

It was the ITF who tested Sharapova, not WADA... So, if it's all about being anti-Russian then both organisations would have to be culpable. The ITF was one of the governing bodies who supported Russian tennis players competing in the Olympics whereas Russia was banned from competing in a lot of other sports. I don't think the ITF are anti-Russian.

Sharapova wasn't taking medicine for a sore throat Nekro, she'd been taking this stuff for a decade. The medicinal course of treatment is short term not long term. There is no doubt in my mind at least, that she was taking it for performance enhancement.

Do the Americans get a better shake in these affairs? They've had high profile athletes flunk tests too - Armstrong, Marion Jones, Gatlin and others... but on the whole, i'd agree and say yes. There probably is a bias... I don't think it's necessarily the nationality, more the money and sponsorship put into the sports that ends up being the difference maker.

 

[Nekro]

Do the Americans get a better shake in these affairs? They've had high profile athletes flunk tests too - Armstrong, Marion Jones, Gatlin and others... but on the whole, i'd agree and say yes. There probably is a bias... I don't think it's necessarily the nationality, more the money and sponsorship put into the sports that ends up being the difference maker.

Yeah, that's what i was saying, and it feels bad.

Armstrong btw needed lots of "help" from the frenchies..... So as a long time follower of sports i can clearly see the bias.

Also it feels bad Murray couldn't be smarter or more generous and had to open his mouth about this. as a low quality no1. he should work on his tennis skills to avoid getting owned by out of retirement players and giving muggy pushfest performances like yesterday, to get more gss etc etc. You may agree with what he said but imo it was classless from him saying it.

 

[DarthFed]

The Williams sisters had exemption certificates (I don't agree with exemption certificates BTW) but they put you on the opposite side of the hedge when it comes to doping. It's not a like for like comparison. Sharapova did not have an exemption and took PEDs.

It was the ITF who tested Sharapova, not WADA... So, if it's all about being anti-Russian then both organisations would have to be culpable. The ITF was one of the governing bodies who supported Russian tennis players competing in the Olympics whereas Russia was banned from competing in a lot of other sports. I don't think the ITF are anti-Russian.

Sharapova wasn't taking medicine for a sore throat Nekro, she'd been taking this stuff for a decade. The medicinal course of treatment is short term not long term. There is no doubt in my mind at least, that she was taking it for performance enhancement.

Do the Americans get a better shake in these affairs? They've had high profile athletes flunk tests too - Armstrong, Marion Jones, Gatlin and others... but on the whole, i'd agree and say yes. There probably is a bias... I don't think it's necessarily the nationality, more the money and sponsorship put into the sports that ends up being the difference maker.

I agree with all this though I'm not sure Americans get a break when it comes to doping. I don't follow other countries and their doping suspensions but I don't get the sense that many Americans have gotten free passes aside from cycling back in the day when it seems the cover-ups were widespread around the world. Baseball players and football players certainly don't get a pass. In the NBA it does seem that testing is way too light and they just recently started testing for HGH. But that's sport to sport and there are now plenty of foreign players in the league as well that can benefit from that.

Certainly the US can't be compared to Spain and the Fuentes scandal where the judge wanted to protect all the cheating Spanish athletes in cycling, soccer, tennis, and other sports by having the blood bags destroyed. Something like that would never happen here, most American sports fans hate cheaters.

The problem in tennis is that it is all about $$$. The ATP and WTA don't really care about a clean sport and they have proven that over the years. Two year bans quickly become 6-9 months and that's if they even expose the truth. I have no doubt that there have been a lot more failed drug tests that we have never heard of and we would never have heard about Cilic if it weren't for the Croatian press.

 

[DarthFed]

Something for the so-called "tennis fans": the real dopers, Serena and Venus!!! They were taking real dope, not medicine which got put on the list recently:

http://www.tennisnow.com/News/2016/September/Williams-Sisters-Drug-Records-Leaked,-WADA-Confir.aspx

Now aren't you gonna watch Serena or Venus matches either? "tennis fans"

Not to be confrontational, and I do agree with BB that it is ridiculous to allow the therapeutic use exemption, but I'm guessing you must not realize that Nadal has had a bunch of those too as his drug records were hacked just like the Williams sisters: http://www.tennisnow.com/News/2016/September/Nadal-s-Drug-Records-Posted-By-Hackers.aspx

 

[Nekro]

Not to be confrontational, and I do agree with BB that it is ridiculous to allow the therapeutic use exemption, but I'm guessing you must not realize that Nadal has had a bunch of those too as his drug records were hacked just like the Williams sisters: http://www.tennisnow.com/News/2016/September/Nadal-s-Drug-Records-Posted-By-Hackers.aspx

Yeah, those exemptions are ridiculous....

BTW "a bunch" like the williams sisters? Nadal had for 2 substances: betamethasone and tetracosactide , Serena had for 5: oxycodone, hydromorphone, prednisone, prednisolone, and methylprednisolone


I don't care about Nadal, i'm saying Maria was treated unfairly., if you consider the circumstances, that it was a newly banned substance and it's very logical that probably her team overlooked it, and then look at all those substances Serena took and no consequences. Those drugs are much more hardcore than what Maria took.


BTW i didn't like Nadal's "growth factor" story either and lots of other stuff. Do you think i'm not aware of those either? Imo the athletes should compete without the drug industry behind their backs. What's going on these days is just ridiculous.....

 

[Moxie]

I have no doubt that there have been a lot more failed drug tests that we have never heard of and we would never have heard about Cilic if it weren't for the Croatian press.

I don't think you can say we would never have heard about Cilic but for the Croatian press. I'm not saying this to support Cilic, or ITF or WADA, as we know that they're not exemplary in transparency, but just to keep it real and not reactionary. Cilic found out he'd failed a drug test and pulled out of Wimbledon. At that point, his case was under review, and he was on a suspension pending findings. It came out in the press just a short time later, but that was before the Federation completed its review, which happened in September. I think it's understandable to keep things private until a review is done. No need to besmirch an athlete if an error has been made, for example. There is no way to know if it wouldn't have been made public, once the review was complete and the sentence passed. As I said, they're not know for airing dirty laundry, but you just can't say they wouldn't have gone public when they'd completed their findings. And before anyone starts calling me "naive," I'm not defending them, just addressing what can and cannot be said for certain. It's fair to look at the timeline.

 

[britbox]

Yeah, those exemptions are ridiculous....

BTW "a bunch" like the williams sisters? Nadal had for 2 substances: betamethasone and tetracosactide , Serena had for 5: oxycodone, hydromorphone, prednisone, prednisolone, and methylprednisolone


I don't care about Nadal, i'm saying Maria was treated unfairly., if you consider the circumstances, that it was a newly banned substance and it's very logical that probably her team overlooked it, and then look at all those substances Serena took and no consequences. Those drugs are much more hardcore than what Maria took.


BTW i didn't like Nadal's "growth factor" story either and lots of other stuff. Do you think i'm not aware of those either? Imo the athletes should compete without the drug industry behind their backs. What's going on these days is just ridiculous.....

Yeah but Serena had the exemption - she applied for it and it was granted. She worked within the system... like it or not. I don't like exemptions either... but that's the system in place and athletes will push the system for what it's worth. I was far more cynical about the Serena episode with the panic room than this one.

Sharapova could equally have applied for an exemption - she didn't and then admitted taking the PED after the ban date started... I don't get all the love for Maria Sharapova over this... people called her brave for calling that press conference.... My visions of bravery would be more along the lines of a soldier taking out an enemy machine gun nest, not some overpaid athlete admitting taking banned drugs.

Some people don't think her slam wins were legit after the meldonium fiasco. I do - she played the system within the rules at the time - they are legit.

I classed myself as a casual fan of Masha before this episode - Never a huge fan of her game, but liked her steely resolve and focus. I think she's a busted flush now and it's probably a mistake for her to come back.

 

[Nekro]

I think she's a busted flush now and it's probably a mistake for her to come back.

Well, about that i think that we don't know the circumstances. We don't know what she thinks. Maybe she entrusted to her team that part of her career. Remember she's a very busy businesswoman, maybe she thought her diet and her meds were in good hands so she could focus on her work. If that was so why should she retire? You see, atm she's working withing the system too. If she feels like playing imo she shouldn't listen to people who are telling her not to.