Professional Tennis Players Association - Opinions?

[Moxie]

The discussion of this new players association has begun, and I think it deserves some attention, so I'm starting a separate thread, and a poll.

 

[Moxie]

@MargaretMcAleer and @tennisville were discussing whether Pospisil "flipped" on the idea of including women. This is the NYTimes article worth looking at, by Ben Rothensberg.

Djokovic and Other Top Men Are Creating a Players’ Association (Published 2020)

It is not clear whether the group will operate like a union, although it was billed that way to get players to join. Women are not being included.

www.nytimes.com

Whether Pospisil has flipped on it, or he's still game for the idea, the men took the decision to make the break without getting the women on board, or asking their opinion on how this new union might work, so it's clear that their decision was unilateral. If the women get included, they'll still be an appendage, by all appearances. There are no women in this photo.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

^ This is a quote from Ben Rothernberg for the NY Times 28th August'

He said Pospisil had spoken eagerly about working with female players.The idea appeared to gain stream as Pospisil led a large group including Sloane Stephens and others,to urge the GS tournaments to commit more money to athletes.The tournaments did not engage.

Ben Rothenberg on Twitter yesterday Again made it clear the Pospisil had changed his view on including women in this new union or association.Pospisil is a Co-President along with Novak for a 2 year term.

 

[Moxie]

^ This is a quote from Ben Rothernberg for the NY Times 28th August'

He said Pospisil had spoken eagerly about working with female players.The idea appeared to gain stream as Pospisil led a large group including Sloane Stephens and others,to urge the GS tournaments to commit more money to athletes.The tournaments did not engage.

Ben Rothenberg on Twitter yesterday Again made it clear the Pospisil had changed his view on including women in this new union or association.Pospisil is a Co-President along with Novak for a 2 year term.

To me the photograph and the statement by the men, without the inclusion of women, makes it obvious what they're thinking is. If they meant to make an historic and inclusive new world tennis association, and including the women, they would have done it. Instead, they pick a pretty strange time to make a change, for no reason that is apparent, and they leave the women to hope for a conversation. But the deed is done and the statement is made. Looks like the women can like it or lump it, and just hope to be invited.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

To me the photograph and the statement by the men, without the inclusion of women, makes it obvious what they're thinking is. If they meant to make an historic and inclusive new world tennis association, and including the women, they would have done it. Instead, they pick a pretty strange time to make a change, for no reason that is apparent, and they leave the women to hope for a conversation. But the deed is done and the statement is made. Looks like the women can like it or lump it, and just hope to be invited.

So there will be 2 players association now? is that correct....I read that Rafa and Roger were against starting up a new association especially in these uncertain times.Confusing to say the least.Well the push earlier this year to have the ATP and WTA merge as one.has been dumped again.

 

[Moxie]

This Guardian article is interesting. It doesn't mention the exclusion of women at all. But it does mention, however, that Justin Gimelstob might be in the conversation for leading the new association. Gimelstob, a hugely ambitious person, fell out of favor with his sexist and homophobic comments, and then finally had to resign from the ATP association and Tennis Channel, because of being accused of physically and mentally abusing his ex-wife, who got a restraining order against him, and because he pled guilty to assault against a former friend. He was instrumental in getting Chris Kermode out, and Djokovic was on his side. Does this have to do with the rehabilitation of Gimelstob?

Novak Djokovic casts the first stone in insurrection against the ATP | Kevin Mitchell

Novak Djokovic has launched his player insurrection against the ATP by assembling his masked rebels on a Flushing Meadows court

www.theguardian.com

 

[Moxie]

So there will be 2 players association now? is that correct....I read that Rafa and Roger were against starting up a new association especially in these uncertain times.Confusing to say the least.Well the push earlier this year to have the ATP and WTA merge as one.has been dumped again.

I don't think anyone knows. If Roger and Rafa don't join, either one is not tenable, or there is a schism.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

This Guardian article is interesting. It doesn't mention the exclusion of women at all. But it does mention, however, that Justin Gimelstob might be in the conversation for leading the new association. Gimelstob, a hugely ambitious person, fell out of favor with his sexist and homophobic comments, and then finally had to resign from the ATP association and Tennis Channel, because of being accused of physically and mentally abusing his ex-wife, who got a restraining order against him, and because he pled guilty to assault against a former friend. He was instrumental in getting Chris Kermode out, and Djokovic was on his side. Does this have to do with the rehabilitation of Gimelstob?

Novak Djokovic casts the first stone in insurrection against the ATP | Kevin Mitchell

Novak Djokovic has launched his player insurrection against the ATP by assembling his masked rebels on a Flushing Meadows court

www.theguardian.com

OMG Gimelstob is involved he is a disgrace especially his repulsive comments against women.

 

[Moxie]

OMG Gimelstob is involved he is a disgrace especially his repulsive comments against women.

Which makes one think that the inclusion of women is unlikely.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Which makes one think that the inclusion of women is unlikely.

Indeed.....knowing that I would prefer the WTA to stay as it is.

 

[Moxie]

Indeed.....knowing that I would prefer the WTA to stay as it is.

Maybe, but think of the chutzpah, once again, of the men creating a Professional Tennis Player's Association, and considering that that doesn't include the women...who are, in fact, professional tennis players. Nearly 50 years later, they're still declaring that, if you say "tennis player," you mean a man. If you want to qualify "woman," you have to say it out loud, or write it on the logo. At least Andy Murray said he wouldn't join unless they invited the women.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Maybe, but think of the chutzpah, once again, of the men creating a Professional Tennis Player's Association, and considering that that doesn't include the women...who are, in fact, professional tennis players. Nearly 50 years later, they're still declaring that, if you say "tennis player," you mean a man. If you want to qualify "woman," you have to say it out loud, or write it on the logo. At least Andy Murray said he wouldn't join unless they invited the women.

I knew Andy Murray would not join if woman were not included,glad to see he stands firm on what he believes.I still think men players are not happy that women are getting same money in GS,that was the case when this merger was brought up in April.

 

[Moxie]

I knew Andy Murray would not join if woman were not included,glad to see he stands firm on what he believes.I still think men players are not happy that women are getting same money in GS,that was the case when this merger was brought up in April.

Yes, but the equal money at GS ship sailed a long time ago. Even at IW, Miami. They are so afraid that their pot will get split with the women that they're unwilling to take a "strength in numbers" negotiating position.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Yes, but the equal money at GS ship sailed a long time ago. Even at IW, Miami. They are so afraid that their pot will get split with the women that they're unwilling to take a "strength in numbers" negotiating position.

With any proposed merger you have to be able to give and take,have a clear transition period,know your long term goals.

 

[Moxie]

With any proposed merger you have to be able to give and take,have a clear transition period,know your long term goals.

Obviously, we are not privy to the full document that has been sent to the ATP players. The only quote I find is this and none of it speaks to a merger:

"The goal of the PTPA is not to replace the ATP, but to provide players with a self-governance structure that is independent from the ATP and directly responsive to player-members' needs and concerns."

This from players who had a voice on the ATP council. It'll be interesting to hear more details, as things move along. And any notion that they are negotiating with players on the women's side.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Obviously, we are not privy to the full document that has been sent to the ATP players. The only quote I find is this and none of it speaks to a merger:

"The goal of the PTPA is not to replace the ATP, but to provide players with a self-governance structure that is independent from the ATP and directly responsive to player-members' needs and concerns."

This from players who had a voice on the ATP council. It'll be interesting to hear more details, as things move along. And any notion that they are negotiating with players on the women's side.

Is it possible to have 2 separate bodies in the ATP? I really can't see this as a positive moving forward quite frankly.I will wait to see further details.

 

[Moxie]

Is it possible to have 2 separate bodies in the ATP? I really can't see this as a positive moving forward quite frankly.I will wait to see further details.

I don't think it is. If you have 2, aren't both neutered? But normally, if you go for a coup, don't you line up the big dogs before you jump? Maybe not...the Handsome 8 didn't have Rosewall, Laver or Gonzalez. But going pro v. staying amateur was a big difference. Right now, it's not clear what this new players group offers.

 

[tennisville]

Ok, I will join this discussion. The first thing you need to realize is that men and women are in discussion. Walied Solomon confirmed this in the NYTimes article that was written by Ben Rothenberg. Pospisil has been a proponent of including women and there have been discussions regarding the same

This organization was formed mainly to oppose the ATP which was for the tournaments and not supporting the players. This was the main reason why Kermode got ousted. Right now, the way the ATP is organized is such that tournaments have a say on the decisions and players are not getting a majority because of this. There are 3 votes for a player and 3 votes for a tournament and a tie being decided by the ATP CEO. So players are unhappy that they are not getting enough. On top of this, there is a blatant conflict of interest where Federer is in business with the Craig Tiley, ATP, former USTA CEO for the Laver Cup. No journalist is covering this for some reason though

The women are part of an independent organization called the WTA and have separate issues. That is why they have to take the first step and break from the WTA like the men did if they are unhappy. They should not play second fiddle to the men and only join this organization with an equal say. This is what is going to happen and has been hinted by Walied Solomon in the NYTimes article as well as Pospisil. So they want the women to be a part but they don't want to force their hand and want them to take the first step as they should.

For all we know, the women might actually be happy with the WTA

 

[Moxie]

But if this new Player's Association is talking to women about joining, why didn't they wait to complete the deal before announcing? Why come out with this now, particularly?

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Sam Querry,one of the six ATP Council members who co-signed the letter urging caution (along with Federer and Nadal),says he has since quit the council and joined fellow ex-council members Djokovic,Isner and Pospisil in the PTPA.