Miami Open, Miami, FL, 2025 - ATP 1000

[Moxie]

Yet another empty hole in Rafa's resume! He got to Miami Masters finals enuf times, but failed to win it along w/ no YEC's or Paris Masters!

Look, I know you can't resist being a twat, but, taken as a whole, there is nothing wrong with Rafa's resume. Or Roger's. Sure, Novak managed to hoover up a lot of everything, and mostly after his main competition was past their half-way marks. Sure, Novak is great. But it doesn't have to be a zero-sum game. There was a lot of greatness in all of the Big 3...and there is also a reason that it took Novak so long to catch up.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Look, I know you can't resist being a twat, but, taken as a whole, there is nothing wrong with Rafa's resume. Or Roger's. Sure, Novak managed to hoover up a lot of everything, and mostly after his main competition was past their half-way marks. Sure, Novak is great. But it doesn't have to be a zero-sum game. There was a lot of greatness in all of the Big 3...and there is also a reason that it took Novak so long to catch up.

Didnt Roger win the Miami Open at age 37 if my memory is correct ?

 

[Fiero425]

Look, I know you can't resist being a twat, but, taken as a whole, there is nothing wrong with Rafa's resume. Or Roger's. Sure, Novak managed to hoover up a lot of everything, and mostly after his main competition was past their half-way marks. Sure, Novak is great. But it doesn't have to be a zero-sum game. There was a lot of greatness in all of the Big 3...and there is also a reason that it took Novak so long to catch up.

I had to "go there" since you referenced Miami being a "Latin Slam!" I go hard on both Fedal as I see Novak not getting his due even now! That's so disrespectful to any player at the top like him giving credit to a lack of comp.! Sampras has a lot of comp. back then, but his finals were mostly routine events having little trouble def. his pigeon on 1990 on, Andre Agassi & other huge adversaries like Phillipousis, Pioline, & Chang! I've already pointed out Novak's record is as symmetrical as can be w/ comp. that was just as legendary as him being the GOAT now! As you said, he "hoovered up" many titles, but there's been a balance from 2008 until 2023 (winning 3 of 4 majors for the 4th time)! He won 12 Majors early 2008-2016, then 12 more late 2018-2023, adding 2 more YEC's later in his career after going yrs. w/o a win! His comp. has been strong & steep from beginning to end; Fedal, Lost Gen, Lost Gen II, now dealing w/ NG's w/ even more talent & games! As much as you might think of me as fanboy rolling out these records, I'm just balancing out his haters that continue to believe tennis begins & ends w/ Fedal! NOT!

 

[Moxie]

I had to "go there" since you referenced Miami being a "Latin Slam!"

I think anyone without a Serbian-sized chip on his shoulder knows I was talking about the attendees when I said "Latin Slam." FFS.

I go hard on both Fedal as I see Novak not getting his due even now! That's so disrespectful to any player at the top like him giving credit to a lack of comp.! Sampras has a lot of comp. back then, but his finals were mostly routine events having little trouble def. his pigeon on 1990 on, Andre Agassi & other huge adversaries like Phillipousis, Pioline, & Chang! I've already pointed out Novak's record is as symmetrical as can be w/ comp. that was just as legendary as him being the GOAT now! As you said, he "hoovered up" many titles, but there's been a balance from 2008 until 2023 (winning 3 of 4 majors for the 4th time)! He won 12 Majors early 2008-2016, then 12 more late 2018-2023, adding 2 more YEC's later in his career after going yrs. w/o a win! His omp. has been strong & steep from beginning to end; Fedal, Lost Gen, Lost Gen II, now dealing w/ NG's w/ even more talent & games! As much as you might think of me as fanboy rolling out these records, I'm just balancing out his haters that continue to believe tennis begins & ends w/ Fedal! NOT!

Take this to the Fedal wars thread. But stop skewing your numbers. 2008-2010 Novak won 1 Slam. He bloomed late and there is a reason.

 

[Fiero425]

I think anyone without a Serbian-sized chip on his shoulder knows I was talking about the attendees when I said "Latin Slam." FFS.

Take this to the Fedal wars thread. But stop skewing your #'s. 2008-2010 Novak won 1 Slam. He bloomed late and there is a reason.

Skewing my #'s? WTF are you talking about? We can pull yrs. out of any players career & make them look lame! Roger went 5+ yrs. w/o winning a major after owning 17, then pk.'d up 3 late when Novak on the shelf! Fedal was having no trouble w/ their comp., they were having trouble beating NOVAK! There's a difference! The Djokovic rec. can't be questioned or dissected as he owns them all! Sorry the Fedal fans have little to fall back on w/ their GOAT argument!

 

[don_fabio]

Novak really missed a golden opportunity to bag that 100th title. Now back to clay and grinding at 38 years old...

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Novak really missed a golden opportunity to bag that 100th title. Now back to clay and grinding at 38 years old...

Don Hi,
Yes he did, credit to Mensik he stayed strong, didnt back down, his serve again was outstanding, and also his return of serve, even his fhand which is a shot he can improve on held up.
You know clay is my favorite time of the year

 

[Moxie]

Novak really missed a golden opportunity to bag that 100th title. Now back to clay and grinding at 38 years old...

To me, this reminded me of how Roger started to wind down. He could be looking really good in a tournament, even "vintage," and then the final, often, would be surprisingly poor/lackluster. As if he'd peaked too soon. Lost his instinct for peaking for the final Sunday. Full credit to Mensik, who really played some great and brave tennis...new level for him, IMO, and not merely taking advantage of a poor Djokovic. However, Novak went from serving the best of his career in his previous two matches, to something rather less than that. Who knows if Novak had come out full-steam if Mensik could have held his nerve as well. But he was edgy and bothered. Late career, they can feel the moment a lot, and Novak hasn't won an ATP title in a long while. But he definitely missed an opportunity that seemed to be sitting there for him.

 

[Moxie]

Skewing my #'s? WTF are you talking about? We can pull yrs. out of any players career & make them look lame! Roger went 5+ yrs. w/o winning a major after owning 17, then pk.'d up 3 late when Novak on the shelf! Fedal was having no trouble w/ their comp., they were having trouble beating NOVAK! There's a difference! The Djokovic rec. can't be questioned or dissected as he owns them all! Sorry the Fedal fans have little to fall back on w/ their GOAT argument!

I have said before that if you feel the need for a singular GOAT you can have it. But the constant whining about it is a bad look. We were talking about whether or not to move Miami, and I was arguing that you shouldn't based on the fact that Miami has, and also pulls in, lots of fans from South and Central America, which I think is a boon for tennis. A lot of great players come from South America, and so do a lot of fans. They don't even have a MS1000 on the entire continent, so one that's convenient to them, and the Latin diaspora is good for the game, IMO. I think Charlotte would be a poor substitute.

 

[Fiero425]

I have said before that if you feel the need for a singular GOAT you can have it. But the constant whining about it is a bad look. We were talking about whether or not to move Miami, and I was arguing that you shouldn't based on the fact that Miami has, and also pulls in, lots of fans from South and Central America, which I think is a boon for tennis. A lot of great players come from South America, and so do a lot of fans. They don't even have a MS1000 on the entire continent, so one that's convenient to them, and the Latin diaspora is good for the game, IMO. I think Charlotte would be a poor substitute.

I think I may have been misunderstood when I mentioned Rafa in respect to Miami having a lot of Latin support! That's the pt. I was trying to make; plenty Spanish support, but unable to win a title there! IMO, a significant hole in Nadal's resume in comparison to Novak!

 

[Shivashish Sarkar]

I think I may have been misunderstood when I mentioned Rafa in respect to Miami having a lot of Latin support! That's the pt. I was trying to make; plenty Spanish support, but unable to win a title there! IMO, a significant hole in Nadal's resume in comparison to Novak!

The biggest hole in Novak's resume is that the whole stadium be against him save his wife, and his kids. Not the case with Rafa or Roger.

 

[don_fabio]

To me, this reminded me of how Roger started to wind down. He could be looking really good in a tournament, even "vintage," and then the final, often, would be surprisingly poor/lackluster. As if he'd peaked too soon. Lost his instinct for peaking for the final Sunday. Full credit to Mensik, who really played some great and brave tennis...new level for him, IMO, and not merely taking advantage of a poor Djokovic. However, Novak went from serving the best of his career in his previous two matches, to something rather less than that. Who knows if Novak had come out full-steam if Mensik could have held his nerve as well. But he was edgy and bothered. Late career, they can feel the moment a lot, and Novak hasn't won an ATP title in a long while. But he definitely missed an opportunity that seemed to be sitting there for him.

Younger Novak would have taken care of these red hot opponents. He used to break big servers like a flip of a switch, but not anymore. His return game declined. Watched highlights and he seemed overpowered by Mensik too. I wonder if he even has one more slam in him. Sure he can still make 2nd week, QF and SF, final maybe, but I'm not sure if he is good enough anymore for a trophy. I know he is thinking about it too.

 

[Moxie]

The biggest hole in Novak's resume is that the whole stadium be against him save his wife, and his kids. Not the case with Rafa or Roger.

Never won the hearts and minds. He had a big hand in that.

 

[kskate2]

Younger Novak would have taken care of these red hot opponents. He used to break big servers like a flip of a switch, but not anymore. His return game declined. Watched highlights and he seemed overpowered by Mensik too. I wonder if he even has one more slam in him. Sure he can still make 2nd week, QF and SF, final maybe, but I'm not sure if he is good enough anymore for a trophy. I know he is thinking about it too.

But this is how it starts w/ all the greats. They get to a point, where they can't bring their best on Sundays. If he can't win a M1000 where he didn't have to play any top 10 players, it doesn't bode well for the slams. No Zed, Chuck, Red, etc in Miami. That will not always be the case. I can't see those guys consistently coming up lame in the 2nd week of masters and slams.

 

[Moxie]

I think I may have been misunderstood when I mentioned Rafa in respect to Miami having a lot of Latin support! That's the pt. I was trying to make; plenty Spanish support, but unable to win a title there! IMO, a significant hole in Nadal's resume in comparison to Novak!

No, you were quite clear. You gratuitously made an excuse to say that Nadal had never won Miami, but Novak had, while at the same time whining that Djokovic doesn't get enough love. Crowing and complaining in the same post is cheesy.

 

[Moxie]

But this is how it starts w/ all the greats. They get to a point, where they can't bring their best on Sundays. If he can't win a M1000 where he didn't have to play any top 10 players, it doesn't bode well for the slams. No Zed, Chuck, Red, etc in Miami. That will not always be the case. I can't see those guys consistently coming up lame in the 2nd week of masters and slams.

Wertheim was thinking along the lines we were: that this is generally what the decline looks like. He said this today in his mailbag:

• In keeping with the rhythms of the aging tennis player, Djokovic reached the final only to lose to Menšík, 7–6, 7–6. Players don’t lose their games (or conditioning or confidence) overnight. What goes is the consistency. One round, Pete Sampras was still killing it; the next, he was losing to Marat Safin or Lleyton Hewitt in the U.S. Open final. Serena was angling toward that 24th major; then she lost to Angie Kerber or Bianca Andreescu in the final. Federer cruised for a three-peat in Australia, but there stood Stefanos Tsitsipas. The glass half-full: Djokovic is a few weeks from turning 38 and is still reaching the finals of Masters 1000 events.

@don_fabio is wondering if Novak has another Slam in him. He is sure Novak is thinking the same. That's part of where the age comes in: the see the window closing. Makes them tight. Roger was about as close as you can get to the Wimbledon title in 2019, and couldn't seal the deal. Two championship points on his own serve. Granted, he was playing Djokovic, but that's in the head. Novak's #25 looks a little less likely after Sunday. He's got a long ATP title drought.

 

[Fiero425]

But this is how it starts w/ all the greats. They get to a point, where they can't bring their best on Sundays. If he can't win a M1000 where he didn't have to play any top 10 players, it doesn't bode well for the slams. No Zed, Chuck, Red, etc in Miami. That will not always be the case. I can't see those guys consistently coming up lame in the 2nd week of masters and slams.

All I can do is SMH! Everyone here are experienced tennis aficionados & know what's what! Novak is no ordinary GREAT! He has risen from the more times than any other player! Gil Gross on You Tube agrees w/ me that he's ahead of schedule compared to the last few yrs.! He lost 3 matches in a row, but that's been it so far this season as he ripped the players put in front of him in Miami! He didn't just "hang on" & have some fantastic comeback; he destroyed those players who are quite competitive even if not in the top 10! If Taylor had finished off Mensik, I think Novak might have come thru w/ his 100th win! Mensik was just playing hot & his serve was cooking! It's like we all forgot a few yrs. ago Novak dropping a couple Masters finals to Rune & Khachanov! He's still standing after all these yrs. & I think he has it in him to not only win 1 or 2 more Masters, but a 25th Major! It shouldn't be a surprise after so many yrs. of watching this man work! His last hurdle was an OGM & he got it over the best, on clay in Paris! Everything else is just gravy; a MC to complete a 3rd Golden Masters, & maybe 1 more FO to match Steffi Graf's 4 Career GS's! I think Novak is moving well, looks sharp, is serving out of his mind, & still competes at the highest levels!

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

All I can do is SMH! Everyone here are experienced tennis aficionados & know what's what! Novak is no ordinary GREAT! He has risen from the more times than any other player! Gil Gross on You Tube agrees w/ me that he's ahead of schedule compared to the last few yrs.! He lost 3 matches in a row, but that's been it so far this season as he ripped the players put in front of him in Miami! He didn't just "hang on" & have some fantastic comeback; he destroyed those players who are quite competitive even if not in the top 10! If Taylor had finished off Mensik, I think Novak might have come thru w/ his 100th win! Mensik was just playing hot & his serve was cooking! It's like we all forgot a few yrs. ago Novak dropping a couple Masters finals to Rune & Khachanov! He's still standing after all these yrs. & I think he has it in him to not only win 1 or 2 more Masters, but a 25th Major! It shouldn't be a surprise after so many yrs. of watching this man work! His last hurdle was an OGM & he got it over the best, on clay in Paris! Everything else is just gravy; a MC to complete a 3rd Golden Masters, & maybe 1 more FO to match Steffi Graf's 4 Career GS's! I think Novak is moving well, looks sharp, is serving out of his mind, & still competes at the highest levels!

Well he wasnt moving well in the final in Miami, and Mensik was returning his serve well, unless you were watching a different final? that was the match that counted and he had a easy draw in Miami,
Anyway Federer remains the oldest player to win a Masters 1000 at 37 years old in Miami.

 

[El Dude]

"Hey Rafa, does the fact that you never won Miami tarnish your record?"

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

"Hey Rafa, does the fact that you never won Miami tarnish your record?"

View attachment 10016

Not at all, but it becomes Tiring when a poster you know whom I am taking about always has to have a snipe at Rafa in all his postings, what he didnt win?when he was playing and now retired. Apparently Rafa still lives 'rent free' in his head