Fedalovic Wars

[Front242]

How could I forget that one when you bring it up every 6 months? If he has such a "dodgy" history of MTOs, how come you only have pretty much the same one or two examples from 10 years ago? As I said in a post recently ago, I think on the AO thread: I recognize that some people think the same of Nadal, but what Nadal mostly actually has is a history of injury, and his injuries have had a lot of consequences for his career. He'd already lost time to his knees by 2010. Djokovic seems not to have real ramifications from these niggles, at least since the old days when he retired a lot. (And don't forget the patented Federer gambit: "I lost the 4th set? MTO please.")

Knew you'd bring that up again about Federer and it's pretty pathetic but to be expected from some Nadal fans at this stage who sadly have been brainwashed by the 2 clowns here with Nadal in their nick who have ruined the forum. Nadal at Wimbledon 2010 was a spring chicken and his MTO against Petzschner was before his opponent's serve. Only a true pos does that. It should only be allowed before your own serve. Federer in the AO 2017 had just come back from over 6 months off with no play right back to best of 5 having had a groin injury since the second round and played 3 x 5 set matches en route to and including the final at the age of 35. There is NO COMPARISON whatsoever and it's to be expected that a 35 year old returning from no match play for over 6 months and knee surgery to have fitness issues. Federer's MTO was before his own serve and before the 5th set even started. It did not break any rhythm and gave both of them a rest and you should give that one a rest too, especially since he actually LOST his serve and went down 3-1. Nadal's ones have resulted in him strategically pissing off his opponent enough that he won matches he was losing and losing badly...classic case of my tennis isn't working so gotta try something else today.

I've mentioned loads of others before but here are the worst ones. French Open 2011 final pause to change his bandages on his foot not included there either. Federer of course was leading 5-2 at the time and this was done before who was about to serve for the set? Seeing a trend here ? Yup, you guessed it and we know the rest. If he's to be in the talk for one of the greatest of all time he should let his tennis win matches and it reflects poorly on him he felt the need to do it so often before. He doesn't do it these days but it's tarnished his legacy a lot for many.

http://healthnsports4u.blogspot.com/2011/06/rafael-nadals-injury-timeouts-strategy.html

 

[Moxie]

Knew you'd bring that up again about Federer and it's pretty pathetic but to be expected from some Nadal fans at this stage who sadly have been brainwashed by the 2 clowns here with Nadal in their nick who have ruined the forum. Nadal at Wimbledon 2010 was a spring chicken and his MTO against Petzschner was before his opponent's serve. Only a true pos does that. It should only be allowed before your own serve. Federer in the AO 2017 had just come back from over 6 months off with no play right back to best of 5 having had a groin injury since the second round and played 3 x 5 set matches en route to and including the final at the age of 35. There is NO COMPARISON whatsoever and it's to be expected that a 35 year old returning from no match play for over 6 months and knee surgery to have fitness issues. Federer's MTO was before his own serve and before the 5th set even started. It did not break any rhythm and gave both of them a rest and you should give that one a rest too, especially since he actually LOST his serve and went down 3-1. Nadal's ones have resulted in him strategically pissing off his opponent enough that he won matches he was losing and losing badly...classic case of my tennis isn't working so gotta try something else today.

I've mentioned loads of others before but here are the worst ones. French Open 2011 final pause to change his bandages on his foot not included there either. Federer of course was leading 5-2 at the time and this was done before who was about to serve for the set? Seeing a trend here ? Yup, you guessed it and we know the rest. If he's to be in the talk for one of the greatest of all time he should let his tennis win matches and it reflects poorly on him he felt the need to do it so often before. He doesn't do it these days but it's tarnished his legacy a lot for many.

http://healthnsports4u.blogspot.com/2011/06/rafael-nadals-injury-timeouts-strategy.html

Please note how old those are. You could come up with something more up-to-date. The king of the ill-timed MTO for a long time is Djokovic. Do you disagree? And Federer has used them more recently, as well. You can hang onto your old grievances, but they are old. And if you want to keep fighting about this, I'm happy to take it to the Fedalovic Wars thread.

 

[Front242]

Please note how old those are. You could come up with something more up-to-date. The king of the ill-timed MTO for a long time is Djokovic. Do you disagree? And Federer has used them more recently, as well. You can hang onto your old grievances, but they are old. And if you want to keep fighting about this, I'm happy to take it to the Fedalovic Wars thread.

What difference does it make how old they are? That's like saying I used to be a serial killer 10 years ago but that was years ago and I'm a good boy now so it no longer matters. It helped him win big, important matches he would likely have otherwise lost. You Nadal fans like to make a point of him having won 2 Wimbledons. His antics against Haase and Petzschner came a long way towards helping him win Wimbledon 2010. Cheated his way to victory in Monte Carlo 2008 knowing well it would lower Federer's confidence right before RG 2008. Likewise, French Open 2011, Federer winning the first set would have made a massive difference to the flow of the match and he couldn't have that so he had to re-bandage his damn foot before Federer served for the first set. I mentioned already he hasn't done it for a while so how can I therefore come up with something more up-to-date? I can't make stuff up. And how could I possibly forget the Indian Wells semi where Nadal ran off to take a dump before Federer served for the match. There's a reason he's won the sportsmanship award very few times.

Finally, I went to great lengths to describe why Federer at the age of 35 with no match play for over half a year and knee surgery needed to take 2 MTOs in the AO 2017 having had a groin injury since the 2nd round and because he had 3 x 5 set matches en route to and including the final but you just brushed it away conveniently as usual. So I re-typed it all again. Maybe you might read it this time. No I don't agree. Nadal is worse than Djokovic and is the undisputed king of ill-timed and fake MTOs.

 

[Moxie]

What difference does it make how old they are? That's like saying I used to be a serial killer 10 years ago but that was years ago and I'm a good boy now so it no longer matters. It helped him win big, important matches he would likely have otherwise lost. You Nadal fans like to make a point of him having won 2 Wimbledons. His antics against Haase and Petzschner came a long way towards helping him win Wimbledon 2010. Cheated his way to victory in Monte Carlo 2008 knowing well it would lower Federer's confidence right before RG 2008. Likewise, French Open 2011, Federer winning the first set would have made a massive difference to the flow of the match and he couldn't have that so he had to re-bandage his damn foot before Federer served for the first set. I mentioned already he hasn't done it for a while so how can I therefore come up with something more up-to-date? I can't make stuff up. And how could I possibly forget the Indian Wells semi where Nadal ran off to take a dump before Federer served for the match. There's a reason he's won the sportsmanship award very few times.

Finally, I went to great lengths to describe why Federer at the age of 35 with no match play for over half a year and knee surgery needed to take 2 MTOs in the AO 2017 having had a groin injury since the 2nd round and because he had 3 x 5 set matches en route to and including the final but you just brushed it away conveniently as usual. So I re-typed it all again. Maybe you might read it this time. No I don't agree. Nadal is worse than Djokovic and is the undisputed king of ill-timed and fake MTOs.

You never seem to mind retyping that old Petzchner story. Front, I thought you liked repeating yourself, since you do it so often. We have indeed had this conversation before. The thing is, you are completely convinced that while every Nadal MTO is fake and gamesmanship, every Federer one is completely legit. That is not only fannish, it is risibly naive. No matter that, of the Big 3, Nadal is undisputedly the one with the most loss of career to injury, and yet you think all of his on-court injury issues are just tactics. Compared to the guy who, until recently was pretty much injury free, and yet still liked the odd MTO when he lost the 4th set and going into a decider. But your mind is made up, and was long ago, so I may as well give up on logic.

 

[Front242]

You never seem to mind retyping that old Petzchner story. Front, I thought you liked repeating yourself, since you do it so often. We have indeed had this conversation before. The thing is, you are completely convinced that while every Nadal MTO is fake and gamesmanship, every Federer one is completely legit. That is not only fannish, it is risibly naive. No matter that, of the Big 3, Nadal is undisputedly the one with the most loss of career to injury, and yet you think all of his on-court injury issues are just tactics. Compared to the guy who, until recently was pretty much injury free, and yet still liked the odd MTO when he lost the 4th set and going into a decider. But your mind is made up, and was long ago, so I may as well give up on logic.

Once again, the odd (2 to be precise) MTO after the set ended meaning no disruption to anyone and simply a longer break for all to recoup which is no bad thing and after over 6 months off tour with no match play and following knee surgery and back to best of 5 with a groin injury since the 2nd round and 3 x 5 set matches against top ranked opponents at the age of 35. There's no reasoning with some of the Nadal fans here. No logic whatsoever to compare a 35 year old after knee surgery and with a groin injury since round 2 to a 24 year old in his prime running around like an energizer bunny for 5 sets. Laughable and you're in denial, sorry. Petzschner himself said it looked like he could run around for another 2 or 3 sets. The audience see it, the opponent sees it, just the hardcore Nadal fan doesn't.

So he was so badly injured that he needed a MTO in Monte Carlo 2008 and then was fit as a fiddle a very short time later playing some of his best clay court tennis at RG. Amazing healing don't you think. I'd love to smoke what you're smoking. Maybe actually he simply wanted to plant yet more seeds of doubt in Federer's head before RG began. Down 2-5 in set 1. MTO before Federer served for the set. Federer loses the set 7-5. Federer was up 4-0 in set 2 and also lost it 7-5. Worked out very well indeed for him. Fed's confidence was obviously affected in RG 2008 as a result. Job done by Mr. Sportsmanship himself. I'd feel so proud to be a fan of him.

PS: Nadal has never needed any surgery for any of his injuries. None. Nada. Zero. He hasn't had it anywhere near as bad as you make out and came back like a man possessed after his performance enhancing PRP treatments both years. Kinda makes up for him sitting on the couch.

I don't think all his injuries are fake btw. Clearly AO 2014 his back was screwed from 2-0 down in set 2. But any MTO I've witnessed him take has clearly been bs besides that one in the AO 2014 since he continued to serve and run completely as normal and WIN all the matches bar that AO final. If your eyes say he looked injured in any of the other ones then I'd say get to the nearest optician pronto.

And you know what else, I reckon the age old moan that Nadal is the one of the big 3 who has the most career loss to injury is a load of old fannish bs. Homework exercise. Has Nadal been off tour for more than 1.5 years like Federer who has now had 3 (!) knee surgeries since 2016? That's 3 surgeries more than Nadal ever had btw. I call utter bs on that one personally as he's been back shortly after every injury stoppage each time.

 

[Moxie]

@Front242 - I'll respond to you here, because this is old territory and certainly doesn't deserve to be on anything line a "news" thread. Your most recent post:

Once again, the odd (2 to be precise) MTO after the set ended meaning no disruption to anyone and simply a longer break for all to recoup which is no bad thing and after over 6 months off tour with no match play and following knee surgery and back to best 5 with a groin injury since the 2nd round and 3 x 5 set matches against top ranked opponents at the age of 35. There's no reasoning with some of the Nadal fans here. No logic whatsoever to compare a 35 year old after knee surgery and with a groin injury since round 2 to a 24 year old in his prime running around like an energizer bunny for 5 sets. Laughable and you're in denial, sorry. Petzschner himself said it looked like he could run around for another 2 or 3 sets. The audience see it, the opponent sees it, just the hardcore Nadal fan doesn't.

So he was so badly injured that he needed a MTO in Monte Carlo 2008 and then was fit as a fiddle a very short time later playing some of his best clay court tennis at RG. Amazing healing don't you think. I'd love to smoke what you're smoking. Maybe actually he simply wanted to plant yet more seeds of doubt in Federer's head before RG began. Down 2-5 in set 1. MTO before Federer served for the set. Federer loses the set 7-5. Federer was up 4-0 in set 2 and also lost it 7-5. Worked out very well indeed for him. Fed's confidence was obviously affected in RG 2008 as a result. Job done by Mr. Sportsmanship himself. I'd feel so proud to be a fan of him.

PS: Nadal has never needed any surgery for any of his injuries. None. Nada. Zero. He hasn't had it anywhere near as bad as you make out and came back like a man possessed after his performance enhancing PRP treatments both years. Kinda makes up for him sitting on the couch.

I don't think all his injuries are fake btw. Clearly AO 2014 his back was screwed from 2-0 down in set 2. But any MTO I've witnessed him take has clearly been bs besides that one in the AO 2014 since he continued to serve and run completely as normal and WIN all the matches bar that AO final. If your eyes say he looked injured in any of the other ones then I'd say get to the nearest optician pronto.

And you know what else, I reckon the age old moan that Nadal is the one of the big 3 who has the most career loss to injury is a load of old fannish bs. Homework exercise. Has Nadal been off tour for more than 1.5 years like Federer who has now had 3 (!) knee surgeries since 2016? That's 3 surgeries more than Nadal ever had btw. I call utter bs on that one personally as he's been back shortly after every injury stoppage each time.
__________________________________________

I think Rafa has missed nearly 1.5 years to injury lay-offs. You seem to forget he missed 2.5 months in '09 and 7 months in '12, (which included missing the London Olympics) so, no he isn't "back shortly after every injury stoppage." Add in a few others here and there and you'd be close to a year and a half. Or, put another way, of 71 possible Majors since he played his first one, Rafa has had to miss 9. Of 87 possible Majors since Roger played his first one, he has only missed 7, and all of those since 2016, or when he was 34, which, btw, is Rafa's age right now.

As to Roger taking 2 MTOs, I don't know what you're talking about, but he's done that more than twice. Dimitrov USO '19, extended one after losing the 4th set. Safin AO '05 after losing the 4th set. V. Nadal AO '17...we've been over this, but I'll look the rest up again if you've forgotten. And you really don't get to call "BS" on an entire career's history of injury. You just don't know what goes on with these athletes. TBH, you don't even know that Roger really had 3 surgeries. And you certainly don't know that he really had a groin injury. You simply choose to believe it. My problem with Djokovic is that he really does seem to be suffering these maladies and then come back from them to no real effect, in the middle of a match, or in the next tournament. You say that about Rafa, but you're choosing not to remember the time lost to injury.

 

[Moxie]

I see that as I was posting the above, the admin moved the whole conversation over. Thanks!

 

[Front242]

@Front242 - I'll respond to you here, because this is old territory and certainly doesn't deserve to be on anything line a "news" thread. Your most recent post:

Once again, the odd (2 to be precise) MTO after the set ended meaning no disruption to anyone and simply a longer break for all to recoup which is no bad thing and after over 6 months off tour with no match play and following knee surgery and back to best 5 with a groin injury since the 2nd round and 3 x 5 set matches against top ranked opponents at the age of 35. There's no reasoning with some of the Nadal fans here. No logic whatsoever to compare a 35 year old after knee surgery and with a groin injury since round 2 to a 24 year old in his prime running around like an energizer bunny for 5 sets. Laughable and you're in denial, sorry. Petzschner himself said it looked like he could run around for another 2 or 3 sets. The audience see it, the opponent sees it, just the hardcore Nadal fan doesn't.

So he was so badly injured that he needed a MTO in Monte Carlo 2008 and then was fit as a fiddle a very short time later playing some of his best clay court tennis at RG. Amazing healing don't you think. I'd love to smoke what you're smoking. Maybe actually he simply wanted to plant yet more seeds of doubt in Federer's head before RG began. Down 2-5 in set 1. MTO before Federer served for the set. Federer loses the set 7-5. Federer was up 4-0 in set 2 and also lost it 7-5. Worked out very well indeed for him. Fed's confidence was obviously affected in RG 2008 as a result. Job done by Mr. Sportsmanship himself. I'd feel so proud to be a fan of him.

PS: Nadal has never needed any surgery for any of his injuries. None. Nada. Zero. He hasn't had it anywhere near as bad as you make out and came back like a man possessed after his performance enhancing PRP treatments both years. Kinda makes up for him sitting on the couch.

I don't think all his injuries are fake btw. Clearly AO 2014 his back was screwed from 2-0 down in set 2. But any MTO I've witnessed him take has clearly been bs besides that one in the AO 2014 since he continued to serve and run completely as normal and WIN all the matches bar that AO final. If your eyes say he looked injured in any of the other ones then I'd say get to the nearest optician pronto.

And you know what else, I reckon the age old moan that Nadal is the one of the big 3 who has the most career loss to injury is a load of old fannish bs. Homework exercise. Has Nadal been off tour for more than 1.5 years like Federer who has now had 3 (!) knee surgeries since 2016? That's 3 surgeries more than Nadal ever had btw. I call utter bs on that one personally as he's been back shortly after every injury stoppage each time.
__________________________________________

I think Rafa has missed nearly 1.5 years to injury lay-offs. You seem to forget he missed 2.5 months in '09 and 7 months in '12, (which included missing the London Olympics) so, no he isn't "back shortly after every injury stoppage." Add in a few others here and there and you'd be close to a year and a half. Or, put another way, of 71 possible Majors since he played his first one, Rafa has had to miss 9. Of 87 possible Majors since Roger played his first one, he has only missed 7, and all of those since 2016, or when he was 34, which, btw, is Rafa's age right now.

As to Roger taking 2 MTOs, I don't know what you're talking about, but he's done that more than twice. Dimitrov USO '19, extended one after losing the 4th set. Safin AO '05 after losing the 4th set. V. Nadal AO '17...we've been over this, but I'll look the rest up again if you've forgotten. And you really don't get to call "BS" on an entire career's history of injury. You just don't know what goes on with these athletes. TBH, you don't even know that Roger really had 3 surgeries. And you certainly don't know that he really had a groin injury. You simply choose to believe it. My problem with Djokovic is that he really does seem to be suffering these maladies and then come back from them to no real effect, in the middle of a match, or in the next tournament. You say that about Rafa, but you're choosing not to remember the time lost to injury.

I was referring to the 2 MTOs in the AO 2017 only since you mentioned recent ones. Dimitrov WON the match at the USO 2019. Federer was commended by many for finishing the match as it was clear he had back issues so wtf is with moaning about that one? I never said he had only taken 2 but so far that's 3 legit ones. Oh right, I don't know now that Roger had a groin injury and simply choose to believe. WTF has this nonsense discussion turned into ? You can say that about any player, anything in life basically. You choose to believe everything Nadal says so. I give up. This is pointless. So if Federer didn't have 3 surgeries wtf would he waste 1.5 years of his career for nothing at this stage near retirement? Utterly pathetic nonsense talk.

"I think Rafa has missed nearly 1.5 years to injury lay-offs. You seem to forget he missed 2.5 months in '09 and 7 months in '12, (which included missing the London Olympics) so, no he isn't "back shortly after every injury stoppage." Add in a few others here and there and you'd be close to a year and a half. Or, put another way, of 71 possible Majors since he played his first one, Rafa has had to miss 9."

^ You think. That settles that then. He chose to miss Wimbledon 2009 and especially the AO 2013 when he had a stomach issue 3 weeks before the tournament began. That's 2 he chose to miss, not had to miss. Love the "add in a few others here and there and you'd be close to a year and a half. Pretty vague and I doubt it. He's never been out of action long but look who cares anymore since we both just choose to believe Nadal and Federer and the news. It's all fake news and fake injuries. Case closed.

 

[Moxie]

I was referring to the 2 MTOs in the AO 2017 only since you mentioned recent ones. Dimitrov WON the match at the USO 2019. Federer was commended by many for finishing the match as it was clear he had back issues so wtf is with moaning about that one? I never said he had only taken 2 but so far that's 3 legit ones. Oh right, I don't know now that Roger had a groin injury and simply choose to believe. WTF has this nonsense discussion turned into ? You can say that about any player, anything in life basically. You choose to believe everything Nadal says so. I give up. This is pointless. So if Federer didn't have 3 surgeries wtf would he waste 1.5 years of his career for nothing at this stage near retirement? Utterly pathetic nonsense talk.

"I think Rafa has missed nearly 1.5 years to injury lay-offs. You seem to forget he missed 2.5 months in '09 and 7 months in '12, (which included missing the London Olympics) so, no he isn't "back shortly after every injury stoppage." Add in a few others here and there and you'd be close to a year and a half. Or, put another way, of 71 possible Majors since he played his first one, Rafa has had to miss 9."

^ You think. That settles that then. He chose to miss Wimbledon 2009 and especially the AO 2013 when he had a stomach issue 3 weeks before the tournament began. That's 2 he chose to miss, not had to miss. Love the "add in a few others here and there and you'd be close to a year and a half. Pretty vague and I doubt it. He's never been out of action long

I don't see how Dimitrov having won that match has any bearing on the fact that Fed took a MTO after losing the 4th. If it's done as gamesmanship, there is no way to know if it will work. You don't seem to understand that, in the same way that Safin won that match. All I'm saying is that your thinking only runs in one way...that Roger is always in earnest about his injuries and MTOs and Rafa is always lying and gaming. Oh, except the back in the final of the '14 AO final, because no one can reinterpret that one to suit their narrative. Rafa did miss 7 months to injury, which is a long time. As is 2 1/2. You say he "chose" to miss Wimbledon in 2009, but he said that he couldn't play Queens or Wimbledon as the knees were too bad. If you choose not to believe that, I don't know what to say. And, yes, Rafa was hoping to come back for a tune-up and the AO in 2013, but when he was too sick to play the tuneup, he decided he was unprepared to go straight into a Major. A choice, but injury related. Roger wanted to play the AO this year, but also decided he wasn't ready yet. Both are Majors missed attributable to injury. You can be that fair. (And somehow I knew you would bring up that missed AO in '13. I will never understand why that bothers you so much.)

 

[Front242]

I don't see how Dimitrov having won that match has any bearing on the fact that Fed took a MTO after losing the 4th. If it's done as gamesmanship, there is no way to know if it will work. You don't seem to understand that, in the same way that Safin won that match. All I'm saying is that your thinking only runs in one way...that Roger is always in earnest about his injuries and MTOs and Rafa is always lying and gaming. Oh, except the back in the final of the '14 AO final, because no one can reinterpret that one to suit their narrative. Rafa did miss 7 months to injury, which is a long time. As is 2 1/2. You say he "chose" to miss Wimbledon in 2009, but he said that he couldn't play Queens or Wimbledon as the knees were too bad. If you choose not to believe that, I don't know what to say. And, yes, Rafa was hoping to come back for a tune-up and the AO in 2013, but when he was too sick to play the tuneup, he decided he was unprepared to go straight into a Major. A choice, but injury related. Roger wanted to play the AO this year, but also decided he wasn't ready yet. Both are Majors missed attributable to injury. You can be that fair. (And somehow I knew you would bring up that missed AO in '13. I will never understand why that bothers you so much.)

The missed time in 2012 was so damn suss the French sports minister even suggested it was a silent ban as he had no apparent injury and was just gone then for 7 months but, look, you choose to believe him and that's your choice. Roger hadn't had enough practice but if we're to believe the news reports and I do in this case, he skipped the AO this year to avoid being without his family. The AO 2013 doesn't bother me in the slightest but making it out as a lost opportunity or that he had to miss it is wrong, he fully chose to miss that one as did Roger this year.

The point you missed re the MTO against Dimitrov was he was clearly injured. Not a fan of MTOs in tennis at all but so long as they're legit it's within the rules. No fake news here since his opponent even acknowledges Federer was injured. If they're not injured it becomes a joke and people's eyes can clearly see if someone is hampered or not. When you let balls fly past you that aren't even far away and start shanking tons of balls into the net due to a sore back, it's not hard for the audience to see that.

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/ten...S-Open-quarter-final-upper-back-injury-tennis

Although Federer looked far from his best in the final two sets, Dimitrov - a former world No 3 - showcased that he can still go toe-to-toe with the best of them.
However, he admits he figured Federer was struggling as early as the second set.
"I think after that second set I felt like I was getting a good stride on my shots," he said.
"I knew if I could stay with him... that was a really long game in the fourth set.
"I was trying to make him stay on the court as much as possible.

"That was my main goal and I think after that he started slowing down a little bit.

"For sure in the end he was not 100 per cent in himself but it's best of five, anything can happen."

 

[Moxie]

Posted today by ATP on Twitter. Standing for most titles of all time. I post this agnostically. Just curious about what people think.

Question on my mind is: Roger is tantalizingly close to passing Connors. It seemed nearly a given a couple of years ago, but now looks less likely. Though, Roger could add a few 250s in the next year or two and get over the hump. Would be no shame, since Jimbo's resume is very padded. Would add a talking point to his GOAT resume. Thoughts? Beyond that, I would say that Nadal and Djokovic have a decent shot at passing Lendl, but that would be it.

 

[Nadalfan2013]

Posted today by ATP on Twitter. Standing for most titles of all time. I post this agnostically. Just curious about what people think.

View attachment 4674

Question on my mind is: Roger is tantalizingly close to passing Connors. It seemed nearly a given a couple of years ago, but now looks less likely. Though, Roger could add a few 250s in the next year or two and get over the hump. Would be no shame, since Jimbo's resume is very padded. Would add a talking point to his GOAT resume. Thoughts? Beyond that, I would say that Nadal and Djokovic have a decent shot at passing Lendl, but that would be it.

My thought is that Federer won’t reach Connors even though it’s one of his goals for still playing. The reason though he cares for this record is mostly because all his other records are falling apart.

Meanwhile I feel that GOATdal won’t play until 40 because soon he will have the slam record and Djokovic will be far enough from him. Therefore as soon as GOATdal secures the slam record he will not bother to stick around for too long after and therefore won’t care about Connors and Atp250s.

 

[Jelenafan]

My thought is that Federer won’t reach Connors even though it’s one of his goals for still playing. The reason though he cares for this record is mostly because all his other records are falling apart.

Meanwhile I feel that GOATdal won’t play until 40 because soon he will have the slam record and Djokovic will be far enough from him. Therefore as soon as GOATdal secures the slam record he will not bother to stick around for too long after and therefore won’t care about Connors and Atp250s.

Seeing this week’s Rome Masters, does it look like either Rafa or Novak are close to calling it quits?

Until fairly recently I thought Rafa & Novak wouldn’t come anywhere near Federer’s longevity , ie they would be gone & retired by age 37. However the unexpected wild card was the pandemic shutdown. They both didn’t play a full schedule when not injured for the first time in their careers. Players in this day and age can’t afford to take 6 months off because of the ranking system with points sliding off.

Rafa played only 7 tournaments in all of 2020, and even now by the end of May he will have played 5 tournaments for 2021. I’m not saying he wasn’t physically challenged, Moya said that the pandemic raised havoc with his conditioning routine. Rather I’m not as sure that this chain of events hasn’t prolonged their tennis careers by sparing them the wear and tear of a full tournament grind for 16 months.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Bringing up "weak eras" is hypocritical given you're an ardent Novak supporter. The guy's had an easier time than Roger for nearly five seasons.

Seems like Fiero's weak era narrative is something he has been campaigning for more than a few years

 

[rafanoy1992]

Posted today by ATP on Twitter. Standing for most titles of all time. I post this agnostically. Just curious about what people think.

View attachment 4674

Question on my mind is: Roger is tantalizingly close to passing Connors. It seemed nearly a given a couple of years ago, but now looks less likely. Though, Roger could add a few 250s in the next year or two and get over the hump. Would be no shame, since Jimbo's resume is very padded. Would add a talking point to his GOAT resume. Thoughts? Beyond that, I would say that Nadal and Djokovic have a decent shot at passing Lendl, but that would be it.

If Nadal wins RG next month, then he will only need 6 titles to surpass Lendl so very doable. As for Djokovic, he has a decent shot but it really depends on whether he will just focus on Slams at this point or he will try to be motivated to get 100 titles.

As for Federer, he will definitely will try his best to win 7 more titles before he calls it a career. The biggest question is can his body hold up long enough to win 7 more titles?

 

[Moxie]

If Nadal wins RG next month, then he will only need 6 titles to surpass Lendl so very doable. As for Djokovic, he has a decent shot but it really depends on whether he will just focus on Slams at this point or he will try to be motivated to get 100 titles.

As for Federer, he will definitely will try his best to win 7 more titles before he calls it a career. The biggest question is can his body hold up long enough to win 7 more titles?

I never understand Novak. He did say that he wants to focus on Majors. And I don't fault him for working so hard to win Rome, because it did bring him to a new level, I think. But then he's playing Belgrade the week before RG. I get that it's his brother's tournament. I think he likes going for records, and might be just the guy to care "most titles." It'd be a lot of small tournaments, I have to think, but if he got close, he'd probably at least try to pass Roger, if Roger never passes Jimmy. Otherwise, I do think he and Rafa will both pass Lendl. I like @Jelenafan's point above about how little they've played in the past year + and how that might well give them extra years.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

I think this year will indicate if Federer will continue playing for the next couple of years,at present I do not like his chances passing Connors,given his recent knee surgeries,slow recovery,due to his age which is understandable.I think both Rafa and Novak can pass Lendl.Novak has recently said he will focus on majors,Rafa in a indirect way has said the same.To me Novak has the better chance of passing Roger's record.

 

[rafanoy1992]

I never understand Novak. He did say that he wants to focus on Majors. And I don't fault him for working so hard to win Rome, because it did bring him to a new level, I think. But then he's playing Belgrade the week before RG. I get that it's his brother's tournament. I think he likes going for records, and might be just the guy to care "most titles." It'd be a lot of small tournaments, I have to think, but if he got close, he'd probably at least try to pass Roger, if Roger never passes Jimmy. Otherwise, I do think he and Rafa will both pass Lendl. I like @Jelenafan's point above about how little they've played in the past year + and how that might well give them extra years.

I think Djokovic will try to surpass Federer with career titles but at age 34…winning 21+ titles is huge tall task.

As for Nadal, we all know for sure he wants the Slam record even though he won’t admit in public. My question is I wonder what will be his other goals IF he achieves that Slam record next month at RG?

He is tied with Djokovic with 36 Masters 1000 titles and he is one win away from tying the H2H record with Djokovic.

That’s why I always thought that out of the Big 3, Nadal is probably the most “content” in terms of his own legacy. What I mean by “content” is that he doesn’t really have a tangible goal other than the slam record. In my opinion (speaking as a Nadal fan), as long Djokovic doesn’t surpasses him in the slam count, he will be totally fine with his legacy or records. Now, he will still compete at a high level until his body cannot handle it anymore.

 

[Jelenafan]

I think Djokovic will try to surpass Federer with career titles but at age 34…winning 21+ titles is huge tall task.

As for Nadal, we all know for sure he wants the Slam record even though he won’t admit in public. My question is I wonder what will be his other goals IF he achieves that Slam record next month at RG?

He is tied with Djokovic with 36 Masters 1000 titles and he is one win away from tying the H2H record with Djokovic.

That’s why I always thought that out of the Big 3, Nadal is probably the most “content” in terms of his own legacy. What I mean by “content” is that he doesn’t really have a tangible goal other than the slam record. In my opinion (speaking as a Nadal fan), as long Djokovic doesn’t surpasses him in the slam count, he will be totally fine with his legacy or records. Now, he will still compete at a high level until his body cannot handle it anymore.

Pop psychology, it's what we do around here. Now my turn to read the Big 3's mind...

While I'm definitely not the biggest Federer fan, I don't think it's just an obsessive need to pad his legacy that drives the Roger, he's a brand name walking conglomerate, and he's savvy enough to realize that as long as his tennis career is active it feeds his brand and off court ventures, it pays for him to continue playing even if not top 5 , 10 or even top 20. Everyone talks about his long term deal with the apparel entity Uniqlo and how it is independent of his playing career; I'm sure that fat contract has incentives and lets face it, he best serves them by wearing their clothes on the biggest tennis stages.

Plus he was 1 service point away in 2019 W from winning it all by beating his 2 biggest rivals back2back. Any sane individual would figure he has a chance until he doesnt.

Tom Brady continues to play because he enjoys it. Ditto Federer plus i suspect Mirka cracks the whip at home so tennis is his outlet! ( planted cameras in Chez Federer)

 

[Moxie]

Interesting points about extra/external motivations for Roger to keep going. Though by all accounts, he really does enjoy the tour. And Wimbledon hasn't even been played since he nearly won it. (Excellent point that he would have beaten Nadal and Djokovic b2b in that one. Hadn't thought of that bonus.) My pop psychology take on the 3 and their attitude about their GOAT race is this: I think Roger spent the majority of his career not even expecting to be in one. However, he did tip his hand about caring about records when he actively went after #1 ranking again. I also think that winning that Wimbledon meant a lot more to him because of the competition for top records. Did he really need a 9th Wimbledon? Of course he would want it, and he's competitive. But I always felt that the fumble at the goal line was due to the extra pressure of Nadal having 12 (at the time) RG titles, and to knowing that he probably needed one more to secure the top spot in the Majors race. I wasn't sure if I thought he'd play, say, small tournaments to pass Connors for most titles, but now that you suggest reasons he would stick around, then why not? Plus, he's always seemed to like going to places he's never been to play. Now I can see why that might also make Uniqlo happy. Suddenly I can see why that might make sense.

My take on Nadal is a little different that @rafanoy1992's. I believe he means what he says. He says that he'd love to finish with the most Majors, but he won't lose sleep over it (implying that it doesn't matter as much to him.) Both things can be true. Having the most Majors (of all and of all 3,) is a form of winning, and they all really, really like to win. But it has always worked for Nadal to keep his eyes on the immediate goals, and I don't think this is false modesty or a laissez faire attitude about the GOAT race. Just a different approach, and I do honestly think that he's not going to change the way he approaches the work at this stage in his career.

Novak has flat-out said that he wants the records. Even Rafa addressed that. He said there's nothing wrong with it, it's just a different approach. I agree with that. It's not more venal to say it out loud. Whatever motivates you to greatness and to keep producing it, good for you. Maybe that's why he seems more testy of late. He's got a lofty goal and he's the one playing from behind. Bottom line, whatever small variations in the ways they think about the GOAT race, I'm each of them would like to be the one sitting in the last chair when the music stops.