ATP 250 Brisbane

Carol

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GameSetAndMath said:
mrzz said:
Saw parts of the match. Nadal´s movement looks fine, bh better than the average of the last few years, serve looks fine. The only problem is that he hit a very few winners against an opponent that gives opportunity to do so. His first winner was an ace at the start of the ninth game...

Even in his prime Rafa was never known to hit much winners. He typically wins about 35% of points by unforced erros of opponents and 55% of points by forced errors (repeated topspin forehand eventually yielding an error) and 10% of points by winners. So, this is actually par for course for Rafa :cover

Especially when he does these points.....yep, one more "unforced error by his opponent"....:snicker
And I could show more and more.....

[video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ph5zb6KQbRM&feature=share[/video]
 

Front242

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It was a nice shot for sure and no one said he doesn't hit winners. He just doesn't hit many typically and the stats back that up.
 

Carol

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The great Pouille retired, grrrrr I would have liked to see him playing against Nadal again
 

Carol

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Front242 said:
It was a nice shot for sure and no one said he doesn't hit winners. He just doesn't hit many typically and the stats back that up.

This doesn't change........
 

Carol

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This is an incredible picture of one boy from Saudi Arabia which has touched the internet all around the world

https://twitter.com/FerGrisolia/status/816277188169367553/photo/1
 

Carol

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Wawrinka seems to be on track and with wish to win his second AO? we'll see......
 

Kieran

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Stan wins slams (only 2 so far) by coming in under the radar. In this sense, he's a distant relative of early Agassi. Put a favourites tag on either of these geezers before the event and they wither in the storm. They're not huge big match players, unless there's little expected of them...
 

Front242

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Carol35 said:
Front242 said:
It was a nice shot for sure and no one said he doesn't hit winners. He just doesn't hit many typically and the stats back that up.

This doesn't change........

Not my fault. He does hit a few more at times, usually on clay.
 

Carol

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Front242 said:
Carol35 said:
Front242 said:
It was a nice shot for sure and no one said he doesn't hit winners. He just doesn't hit many typically and the stats back that up.

This doesn't change........

Not my fault. He does hit a few more at times, usually on clay.

Well, I see that you only like to remember his worst matches, I mean when he has played bad. Yesterday I was watching the AO 2009 final (guess against who...:snicker) and he hit an amazing shots, oh! by the way was on HC :p
 

Carol

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Kieran said:
Stan wins slams (only 2 so far) by coming in under the radar. In this sense, he's a distant relative of early Agassi. Put a favourites tag on either of these geezers before the event and they wither in the storm. They're not huge big match players, unless there's little expected of them...

If I'm correct Stan has won 3 GS but I doubt that he will surprise me winning another one :nono

Tomorrow Rafa will have the oldest Zverev who has very good serve and volley, I hope Rafa has rested enough having the legs in good condition, he will need it the same as his serve
 

Front242

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Carol35 said:
Front242 said:
Carol35 said:
This doesn't change........

Not my fault. He does hit a few more at times, usually on clay.

Well, I see that you only like to remember his worst matches, I mean when he has played bad. Yesterday I was watching the AO 2009 final (guess against who...:snicker) and he hit an amazing shots, oh! by the way was on HC :p

This has nothing to do with his worst matches. He typically just doesn't hit large numbers of winners as he's more a defensive player than offensive. Like I said, there have been exceptions, especially on clay where he's hit tons of winners and you're actually 100% wrong. Though I dislike him, I'd much watching rather him playing well than badly 'cos, really, who enjoys matches where one player plays crap? It's just not enjoyable viewing. The 2010 Monte Carlo final against Verdasco is one of the best matches Nadal ever played and he hit a lot of winners, winning it 6-1 6-0. I actually enjoyed watching that though I'm no fan of Nadal.

Typically though, his stamina/endurance win him matches along with his great defensive skills a lot more than him hitting winners and this is obvious since his matches are usually much, much longer than offensive guys who hit more winners.
 

the AntiPusher

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Front242 said:
Carol35 said:
Front242 said:
Not my fault. He does hit a few more at times, usually on clay.

Well, I see that you only like to remember his worst matches, I mean when he has played bad. Yesterday I was watching the AO 2009 final (guess against who...:snicker) and he hit an amazing shots, oh! by the way was on HC :p

This has nothing to do with his worst matches. He typically just doesn't hit large numbers of winners as he's more a defensive player than offensive. Like I said, there have been exceptions, especially on clay where he's hit tons of winners and you're actually 100% wrong. Though I dislike him, I'd much watching rather him playing well than badly 'cos, really, who enjoys matches where one player plays crap? It's just not enjoyable viewing. The 2010 Monte Carlo final against Verdasco is one of the best matches Nadal ever played and he hit a lot of winners, winning it 6-1 6-0. I actually enjoyed watching that though I'm no fan of Nadal.

Typically though, his stamina/endurance win him matches along with his great defensive skills a lot more than him hitting winners and this is obvious since his matches are usually much, much longer than offensive guys who hit more winners.

"He more a defensive player than offensive "

Well maybe if you were Rafa's cosch, would he have more or less grand slam titles or better yet would his h2h vs Roger be more or less..my Lord dude , I am glad Darth fed has more sense to post something as ridiculous that.
 

Front242

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How in the name of hell is anything I said not true? Do guys like Roger run down every point like their lives depended on it? No. That kind of play is defensive, not offensive. Nothing at all ridiculous about it, it's true. If he were more aggressive he wouldn't play crazy long matches. Early rounds of Wimbledon, Nadal is either in a 5 set dogfight typically or he's already lost. Meanwhile Federer is blasting guys off the court in less than 90 minutes. That's 'cos he's a way more offensive/aggressive player.
 

the AntiPusher

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Front242 said:
How in the name of hell is anything I said not true? Do guys like Roger run down every point like their lives depended on it? No. That kind of play is defensive, not offensive. Nothing at all ridiculous about it, it's true. If he were more aggressive he wouldn't play crazy long matches. Early rounds of Wimbledon, Nadal is either in a 5 set dogfight typically or he's already lost. Meanwhile Federer is blasting guys off the court in less than 90 minutes. That's 'cos he's a way more offensive/aggressive player.

What about Murray and Djokovic? Very much two defensive players wouldn't you agree?
 

Front242

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the AntiPusher said:
Front242 said:
How in the name of hell is anything I said not true? Do guys like Roger run down every point like their lives depended on it? No. That kind of play is defensive, not offensive. Nothing at all ridiculous about it, it's true. If he were more aggressive he wouldn't play crazy long matches. Early rounds of Wimbledon, Nadal is either in a 5 set dogfight typically or he's already lost. Meanwhile Federer is blasting guys off the court in less than 90 minutes. That's 'cos he's a way more offensive/aggressive player.

What about Murray and Djokovic? Very much two defensive players wouldn't you agree?

Absolutely but we were discussing Nadal. Trouble with you Nadal fans is you take offense even to the truth :nono The whole thing started off 'cos GSM correctly pointed out Nadal typically doesn't hit many winners. Carol posted a clip which I said was a nice shot and stated that she could show many more. Everyone who has watched Nadal's match (besides Carol) would clearly state he didn't hit many winners. How can you debate FACTS?! Check the stats. I then merely reiterated that he doesn't typically hit many winners (although I also pointed there are exceptions) and you both have a canary at the truth? :cover
 

the AntiPusher

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Front242 said:
the AntiPusher said:
Front242 said:
How in the name of hell is anything I said not true? Do guys like Roger run down every point like their lives depended on it? No. That kind of play is defensive, not offensive. Nothing at all ridiculous about it, it's true. If he were more aggressive he wouldn't play crazy long matches. Early rounds of Wimbledon, Nadal is either in a 5 set dogfight typically or he's already lost. Meanwhile Federer is blasting guys off the court in less than 90 minutes. That's 'cos he's a way more offensive/aggressive player.

What about Murray and Djokovic? Very much two defensive players wouldn't you agree?

Absolutely but we were discussing Nadal. Trouble with you Nadal fans is you take offense even to the truth :nono The whole thing started off 'cos GSM correctly pointed out Nadal typically doesn't hit many winners. Carol posted a clip which I said was a nice shot and stated that she could show many more. Everyone who has watched Nadal's match (besides Carol) would clearly state he didn't hit many winners. How can you debate FACTS?! Check the stats. I then merely reiterated that he doesn't typically hit many winners (although I also pointed there are exceptions) and you both have a canary at the truth? :cover

Front..taking an offensive or offense would be tryin to debate that Rafa is not a defensive player..My point is you are tryin to be critical when it makes no sense but only you don't like his style of playing although he has experience enormous historical success.
 

Front242

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When did I say he hasn't had enormous success? Again, I merely pointed out the truth. He's not predominantly an offensive player. Quite the opposite actually. That of course does not mean he never plays offensive tennis 'cos clearly he does but his matches feature way less winners than outright offensive players so that therefore shows you he's more defensive minded than offensive. Would he moon ball like there's no tomorrow otherwise? How is describing his style of play critical exactly? It's only critical to you because you take offense to it. To anyone else, it's not. They realize I'm merely pointing out how he actually plays, ie. as I said earlier, the truth.
 

the AntiPusher

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Front242 said:
When did I say he hasn't had enormous success? Again, I merely pointed out the truth. He's not predominantly an offensive player. Quite the opposite actually. That of course does not mean he never plays offensive tennis 'cos clearly he does but his matches feature way less winners than outright offensive players so that therefore shows you he's more defensive minded than offensive. Would he moon ball like there's no tomorrow otherwise? How is describing his style of play critical exactly? It's only critical to you because you take offense to it. To anyone else, it's not. They realize I'm merely pointing out how he actually plays, ie. as I said earlier, the truth.

Again..I didn't take offense because It's truth Rafa just like Djokovic and Murray are defensive players but in 5 years Rafa and Djokovic will be in the top 5 of all time greatest players plus Murray may make the top 15. Don't make much sense since taking a defensive type of style has and is still producing phenomenal results.
 

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Oh, the age old question. What is Rafa? A servebot? A ballbasher? A pusher?
The truth is, no tennis player can play only one brand of tennis. To simplify it, you have to defend, you have to attack and god knows all the other technical details that us ordinary folk aren't aware of.
Clearly, Rafa's movement and dexterity have always been and still are, a strength. But someone who can watch matches like RG 2014 final or USO 2013 final and say that Nadal only defends, is simply an idiot. When he takes the ball early and is playing well, regardless of the surface, there aren't many guys who can even go toe to toe with him, let alone beat him.
Also, when he is playing well on clay, he is basically a ballbasher who htis with a ton of spin and can get every ball back in play. He is as aggressive, if not more, than anyone you can think of, from the baseline at least. Not someone you'd want to face.
Now here's the thing. He starts playing clay tennis everywhere. Because of the big windup on his shots, he likes to step back to take a bigger cut at it, but then the ball drops shorter and the opponent can attack it. This makes him look really bad. That is the curse of choosing to hit with that much spin. These days, he plays like a counterpuncher, and it truly saddens me that people forgot what kind of beast he really was.
Also his serve isn't something to write home about when you compare it to someone like Zverev who can hit aces on demand, but let's remember which one of them was an established top player and won RG at 19 and went on to have arguably the second most successful career of all time. Call him whatever you please.
 

Front242

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Who said he only defends? Why can't anyone read here lol. :cover