AI - Artificial Intelligence

[Kieran]

Message from Tented: I’ve pulled some posts from the US Politics thread to create this new thread, since it’s a topic which encompasses far more than just one country.

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A lot of the time with the media it comes down to how they choose what they want to report. If there’s a negative story about their preferred candidate, they might ignore it, or talk it down. If there’s a negative story about the other candidate, they’ll increase the font size and make it large. The job of the punter is to cross check and also go outside the big media companies, who are largely propaganda machines...

EDIT: by the way, I wonder if the rise of social media and independent news media has exacerbated this problem by forcing the big corporation media giants to appeal more and more to their political constituents out of need for clicks, sales, etc?

 

[tented]

by the way, I wonder if the rise of social media and independent news media has exacerbated this problem by forcing the big corporation media giants to appeal more and more to their political constituents out of need for clicks, sales, etc?

This is a fascinating interview of Yuval Noah Harari (historian/philosopher) & Tristan Harris (former design ethicist for Google) discussing the influence of social media, and the potential impact of AI on society.

 

[Kieran]

A fascinating interview of Yuval Noah Harari (historian/philosopher) & Tristan Harris (former design ethicist for Google) discussing the influence of social media, and the potential impact of AI on society.

I love that video you showed me of Tristan Harris in the Bill Maher show, chilling stuff. And I really like Yuval Noah Harari! Cheers brother...

 

[Kieran]

A fascinating interview of Yuval Noah Harari (historian/philosopher) & Tristan Harris (former design ethicist for Google) discussing the influence of social media, and the potential impact of AI on society.

I’m watching Harris on YouTube now, based on this I’ve already shifted - I changed my search engine to Duck Duck Go. It’s a start. This bloke is saying terrifying things!

 

[britbox]

A fascinating interview of Yuval Noah Harari (historian/philosopher) & Tristan Harris (former design ethicist for Google) discussing the influence of social media, and the potential impact of AI on society.

Tristan plays the central role in The Social Dilemma documentary on Netflix that I mentioned. Well worth a watch.

 

[tented]

Tristan plays the central role in The Social Dilemma documentary on Netflix that I mentioned. Well worth a watch.

I added it to my Netflix queue when I saw your original recommendation, and look forward to it even more now knowing Harris is involved.

 

[britbox]

I added it to my Netflix queue when I saw your original recommendation, and look forward to it even more now knowing Harris is involved.

The other guy in the video (Yuval), wrote 21 Lessons for the 21st Century, which is also a good read.

 

[Kieran]

The other guy in the video (Yuval), wrote 21 Lessons for the 21st Century, which is also a good read.

I’ve read his book Sapiens, which is really great, an eye opener is some ways. He’s a highly interesting bloke...

 

[tented]

Interview with Jeff Orlowski (director of The Social Network), Tristan Harris, and Frank Luntz discussing how social media is hijacking our brains.

 

[tented]

Joe Rogan interviewing Tristan Harris. A great discussion of the effects of social media on society, and the potential of AI.

 

[tented]

A question for everyone: What comes to mind when you hear/read “AI”? How do you imagine it? Good thing? Bad thing?

 

[tented]

Harris references this quote from a book named Amusing Ourselves to Death by Neil Postman:

We were keeping our eye on 1984. When the year came and the prophecy didn’t, thoughtful Americans sang softly in praise of themselves. The roots of liberal democracy had held. Wherever else the terror had happened, we, at least, had not been visited by Orwellian nightmares.

But we had forgotten that alongside Orwell’s dark vision, there was another—slightly older, slightly less well known, equally chilling: Aldous Huxley’s Brave New World. Contrary to common belief even among the educated, Huxley and Orwell did not prophesy the same thing. Orwell warns that we will be overcome by an externally imposed oppression. But in Huxley’s vision, no Big Brother is required to deprive people of their autonomy, maturity and history. As he saw it, people will come to love their oppression, to adore the technologies that undo their capacities to think.

What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one. Orwell feared those who would deprive us of information. Huxley feared those who would give us so much that we would be reduced to passivity and egoism. Orwell feared that the truth would be concealed from us. Huxley feared the truth would be drowned in a sea of irrelevance. Orwell feared we would become a captive culture. Huxley feared we would become a trivial culture, preoccupied with some equivalent of the feelies, the orgy porgy, and the centrifugal bumblepuppy. As Huxley remarked in Brave New World Revisited, the civil libertarians and rationalists who are ever on the alert to oppose tyranny “failed to take into account man’s almost infinite appetite for distractions.” In 1984, Huxley added, people are controlled by inflicting pain. In Brave New World, they are controlled by inflicting pleasure. In short, Orwell feared that what we hate will ruin us. Huxley feared that what we love will ruin us.

This book is about the possibility that Huxley, not Orwell, was right.

 

[Horsa]

This is a fascinating interview of Yuval Noah Harari (historian/philosopher) & Tristan Harris (former design ethicist for Google) discussing the influence of social media, and the potential impact of AI on society.

Hi!

I'm very sorry for interrupting you guys when you're having a conversation. I just thought that I had to agree that that is a fascinating video. Thank you very much for sharing.

I will express my thoughts on it tomorrow after I've finished writing more of my equine history report & checked my e-mails if you 2 gentlemen don't mind.

 

[Horsa]

The other guy in the video (Yuval), wrote 21 Lessons for the 21st Century, which is also a good read.

I've seen that book on offer in the Works a few times & thought about whether I should buy it. Thank you very much for the recommendation. I'll have to get hold of a copy.

 

[Horsa]

I’ve read his book Sapiens, which is really great, an eye opener is some ways. He’s a highly interesting bloke...

I've seen that book a few times & wondered whether to buy it or not as it sounded fascinating. Thank you very much for the recommendation. That's going on my list too.

 

[Kieran]

Harris references this quote from a book named Amusing Ourselves to Death by Neil Postman:

We were keeping our eye on 1984. When the year came and the prophecy didn’t, thoughtful Americans sang softly in praise of themselves. The roots of liberal democracy had held. Wherever else the terror had happened, we, at least, had not been visited by Orwellian nightmares.

But we had forgotten that alongside Orwell’s dark vision, there was another—slightly older, slightly less well known, equally chilling: Aldous Huxley’s Brave New World. Contrary to common belief even among the educated, Huxley and Orwell did not prophesy the same thing. Orwell warns that we will be overcome by an externally imposed oppression. But in Huxley’s vision, no Big Brother is required to deprive people of their autonomy, maturity and history. As he saw it, people will come to love their oppression, to adore the technologies that undo their capacities to think.

What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one. Orwell feared those who would deprive us of information. Huxley feared those who would give us so much that we would be reduced to passivity and egoism. Orwell feared that the truth would be concealed from us. Huxley feared the truth would be drowned in a sea of irrelevance. Orwell feared we would become a captive culture. Huxley feared we would become a trivial culture, preoccupied with some equivalent of the feelies, the orgy porgy, and the centrifugal bumblepuppy. As Huxley remarked in Brave New World Revisited, the civil libertarians and rationalists who are ever on the alert to oppose tyranny “failed to take into account man’s almost infinite appetite for distractions.” In 1984, Huxley added, people are controlled by inflicting pain. In Brave New World, they are controlled by inflicting pleasure. In short, Orwell feared that what we hate will ruin us. Huxley feared that what we love will ruin us.

This book is about the possibility that Huxley, not Orwell, was right.

I think Orwell has been proven right also, unfortunately, and too many times, including in our present time, where we hear of authors being subject to political pressure and cancelling. But I haven't read Brave New World. It sounds like he's on the money too, and it seems such an obvious thing, now that we see it in action - the seductive quality of our own investment in our demise - but to have written about it back then? That's some foresight.

A question for everyone: What comes to mind when you hear/read “AI”? How do you imagine it? Good thing? Bad thing?

I think, a bad thing. Listening to Harris and Yuval in the video you posted has opened by eyes. When Harris mentioned the supercomputer pointed at our brains, playing chess with us - and playing a level beyond the greatest grandmaster in history, while we play with the same abilities as a mouse in a maze - I can only imagine what AI would get up to. With warring tech between the superpowers, imagine how their own AI would be in this war - they'd discard the amateurish mouse-like humans and attack each other with a depth of ruthless logic and efficiency that we'd be massacred.

One caveat is in how we define AI, what it actually consists of, and if we would be able to control it, and would it be so great that it would find ways to override the controls, etc...

 

[tented]

I think, a bad thing. Listening to Harris and Yuval in the video you posted has opened by eyes. When Harris mentioned the supercomputer pointed at our brains, playing chess with us - and playing a level beyond the greatest grandmaster in history, while we play with the same abilities as a mouse in a maze - I can only imagine what AI would get up to. With warring tech between the superpowers, imagine how their own AI would be in this war - they'd discard the amateurish mouse-like humans and attack each other with a depth of ruthless logic and efficiency that we'd be massacred.

That part was both fascinating and frightening. I finally watched “The Social Dilemma” which @britbox has mentioned a few times. It’s must-see for everyone, along with the videos linked to above. I never realized how thoroughly everyone is already being manipulated by algorithms written by a couple of Silicon Valley twenty-somethings.

 

[britbox]

That part was both fascinating and frightening. I finally watched “The Social Dilemma” which @britbox has mentioned a few times. It’s must-see for everyone, along with the videos linked to above. I never realized how thoroughly everyone is already being manipulated by algorithms written by a couple of Silicon Valley twenty-somethings.

It's a great lesson in awareness (and self-awareness) in how we are being "hacked" and how easy it is to divide and conquer with this technology in play,

 

[Kieran]

It's a great lesson in awareness (and self-awareness) in how we are being "hacked" and how easy it is to divide and conquer with this technology in play,

This is the crux of it, maybe, and Yuval goes there a couple of times in the video - to know ourselves is a good weapon against this hacking. To know who we are and what we might want from social media, but also to be discerning of the message. It often doesn't matter where the message is coming from, there are many people who'll believe it just because they see it on YouTube. We can't sell ourselves so cheaply, we need to be more sceptical, otherwise we're living almost wholly vicariously...

 

[tented]

It's a great lesson in awareness (and self-awareness) in how we are being "hacked" and how easy it it to divide and conquer with this technology in play,

Exactly. The film provides at least a partial explanation for the extreme polarity in politics. I’m old enough to remember nightly news in the pre-cable 70s and 80s, when (in the US) there were three networks: ABC, CBS, and NBC. Walter Cronkite delivered the news in a just-the-fact-ma’am manner. There was no financial interest in driving up TV ratings through creating left- and right-wing media, because during that time the news divisions of these companies were editorially independent and no one thought of them as a source of income.