2025 ATP General News

[El Dude]

The tour is turning into:

• Two young greats utterly dominating the Slams and the favorites in any tournament they enter
• An old, former great who may not have much left in the tank
• A handful of hot mess second tier guys with aspirations of being more, but quite a few with variations on mental issues
• A few dozen journeymen vying for 500s/250s
• One or two legit prospects

In some ways it is more top-heavy than the Big Four era, or at least similarly so. I do find the second tier more interesting, though, because it has quite a varied lot - several of whom could go on a hot run and threaten. Meaning, it is better than the Ferrer/Tsonga/Berdych/Nishikori/Raonic era when they couldn't even take home Master's trophies (just four between those five guys!). Part of that is that while Sincaraz may be as dominant in Slams as the Big Three, they don't have the same Masters coverage as 3-4 greats did. Alcaraz still hasn't won more than two Masters in a year, and Sinner just three last year and one the year before. Meaning, it isn't like the days when Novak would win 4, Rafa 3, and Roger and Andy 2 each.

Anyhow, this feels like an underwhelming Masters. Cincy should be more interesting...or not, with another Sincaraz final?

 

[Fiero425]

Alexander Zverev wins. Crickets.

Doesn't anyone care about the possible fourth best player on tour?

I thought the same as I keep checking to see "nothing!" A Masters-1000 event going on and no one GAF! I guess the top 3 WD'n doesn't help!

 

[El Dude]

I thought the same as I keep checking to see "nothing!" A Masters-1000 event going on and no one GAF! I guess the top 3 WD'n doesn't help!

It reminds me a bit of Paris in many years: Lots of top guys skip it, to have a break before the Tour Finals. And really, with Draper also not playing, you have one of the better non-big 3 guys out, too. But I'm a bit surprised that Alcaraz or Djokovic didn't sneak in after Sinner withdrew, as it would be a nice chance for a big title.

A few years ago, it would have been exciting to see a Masters this open. But there are quite a few guys in it that have won Masters, and it is hard to get too excited about any of them, at least in this tournament.

That said, it could get interesting if either a new guy threatens or of the current Masters winners, either Medvedev turns back the clock, Rune finally wins another big title, or Mensik returns to his Miami form. Those would all be interesting stories. But Zverev? Fritz? Rublev? And what would be more anti-climactic than Khachanov or Popyrin winning a second one?

Of the guys without a Masters title, Musetti is already out. But I could see Shelton, De Minaur, Cobolli, or Fils seriously threaten. For Demon, he seems overdue. Fils will probably be too rusty, but Shelton keeps threatening to take it to another level. Perhaps the most interesting name is Cobolli, who has really emerged as, at least, a third interesting Italian (sorry, Berrettini) - and with sneaky upside. I suppose Tiafoe could go on a run, too, which would be a fun story. And of course the guy everyone would like to see win (but we all know won't): Davidovich Fokina.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

It reminds me a bit of Paris in many years: Lots of top guys skip it, to have a break before the Tour Finals. And really, with Draper also not playing, you have one of the better non-big 3 guys out, too. But I'm a bit surprised that Alcaraz or Djokovic didn't sneak in after Sinner withdrew, as it would be a nice chance for a big title.

A few years ago, it would have been exciting to see a Masters this open. But there are quite a few guys in it that have won Masters, and it is hard to get too excited about any of them, at least in this tournament.

That said, it could get interesting if either a new guy threatens or of the current Masters winners, either Medvedev turns back the clock, Rune finally wins another big title, or Mensik returns to his Miami form. Those would all be interesting stories. But Zverev? Fritz? Rublev? And what would be more anti-climactic than Khachanov or Popyrin winning a second one?

Of the guys without a Masters title, Musetti is already out. But I could see Shelton, De Minaur, Cobolli, or Fils seriously threaten. For Demon, he seems overdue. Fils will probably be too rusty, but Shelton keeps threatening to take it to another level. Perhaps the most interesting name is Cobolli, who has really emerged as, at least, a third interesting Italian (sorry, Berrettini) - and with sneaky upside. I suppose Tiafoe could go on a run, too, which would be a fun story. And of course the guy everyone would like to see win (but we all know won't): Davidovich Fokina.

Gill Gross has picked Cobolli v Medvedev final? I know he has a high opinion of Cobolli has tagged him as a Top Ten player, he has come on in leaps and bounds after his shoulder injury earlier in the season, he has improved his serve, which he needed to do, though I still feel he needs improvement on his serve, under pressure or important points he is prone to DF or a weak serve, still he is a really good athlete, good off the ground and solid off both wings.
Top seed Zeverev has a tough draw, he has to face Griekspoor and Cerundolo 2 players he hates playing.
BTW Popyrin the defending champ is about to serve for the match against Medvedev as I post and he defeats Medvedev 57 64 64

 

[PhiEaglesfan712]

What would be embarrassing is if Musetti qualified for the ATP Finals with no titles in 3 years. If that happens, tennis needs to go to a playoff system to determine the ATP Finals. I would like to see players that are getting hot at the right time (but are further behind in the standings), like a Cobolli, Bublik, or Darderi have a chance at making a run. Musetti pointing his way and making the ATP Finals would be a waste of spot. He hasn't really earned it. Plus, he's playing his worst tennis of the year at this moment (1st round exit at Wimbledon and early exit at Toronto).

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Defending champion Popyrin keeps his defense alive defeating Rune 46 62 63
Bad luck for Cerundolo who was forced to retire with an abdominal injury in his match against Zverev, had a MTO in the first set
Zverev wins via retirement 64 1-0

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

BTW watched a practice video of Sinner who has arrived in Cinncy and Cahill is with him at the back of the court
I guess that clears up all the rumors that Cahill wont be with Sinner at the USO this year lol!
BTW the Italian media link which first posted that Cahill would be taking a break this year at the USO refuted their post.

 

[mrzz]

The tour is turning into:

• Two young greats utterly dominating the Slams and the favorites in any tournament they enter
• An old, former great who may not have much left in the tank
• A handful of hot mess second tier guys with aspirations of being more, but quite a few with variations on mental issues
• A few dozen journeymen vying for 500s/250s
• One or two legit prospects

In some ways it is more top-heavy than the Big Four era, or at least similarly so. I do find the second tier more interesting, though, because it has quite a varied lot - several of whom could go on a hot run and threaten. Meaning, it is better than the Ferrer/Tsonga/Berdych/Nishikori/Raonic era when they couldn't even take home Master's trophies (just four between those five guys!). Part of that is that while Sincaraz may be as dominant in Slams as the Big Three, they don't have the same Masters coverage as 3-4 greats did. Alcaraz still hasn't won more than two Masters in a year, and Sinner just three last year and one the year before. Meaning, it isn't like the days when Novak would win 4, Rafa 3, and Roger and Andy 2 each.

Anyhow, this feels like an underwhelming Masters. Cincy should be more interesting...or not, with another Sincaraz final?

In other times I would open a thread for what I am about to write, but I will be happy with a reply. Your post gave me an opening.

Most people here will quickly agree that we currently have the worst second and third tier group of players in a long time, right? I mean, c'mon... You just put it in a sentence, when you mentioned Zverev played and nobody noticed.

Now, this is the generation(s) that Sinner and Alcaraz are dominating. This, and an aging great, visibly slow and awkward. They can only play whoever is across the net, but still...

I hate the "weak era" argument, but I hate it is based on numbers. It is pointless, given that there are no cross-generation objective comparison. All that we have is the eye test. For me, the current generation fails the eye test miserably, including the two you people call all time greats.

As we say in Brazil, in the land of the blind, who has one eye is king...

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Rublev advances to his 1st QF at Toronto, as Foki retires at 0-3 in the 3rd set
Rublev 67(3) 76(2) 3-0

Alex de Minaur booked his QF spot defeating Tiafoe 62 46 64

 

[El Dude]

I've done

In other times I would open a thread for what I am about to write, but I will be happy with a reply. Your post gave me an opening.

Most people here will quickly agree that we currently have the worst second and third tier group of players in a long time, right? I mean, c'mon... You just put it in a sentence, when you mentioned Zverev played and nobody noticed.

Now, this is the generation(s) that Sinner and Alcaraz are dominating. This, and an aging great, visibly slow and awkward. They can only play whoever is across the net, but still...

I hate the "weak era" argument, but I hate it is based on numbers. It is pointless, given that there are no cross-generation objective comparison. All that we have is the eye test. For me, the current generation fails the eye test miserably, including the two you people call all time greats.

As we say in Brazil, in the land of the blind, who has one eye is king...

That saying is international! I think it is an old proverb, but not sure of its origin.

Anyhow, I actually DON'T agree that the second tier is worse now...or at least it depends upon what you mean by "second tier" and what you're comparing it to. If we use it just generally to mean "outside of the elite, but recognizable names and guys who spend time in the top 10," then I think there's a wider assortment of 2nd tier types over the last 5-8ish years than there was during the Big Four Era. At the least, there's less "big title homogeneity," with more guys winning Masters. For a few years there, the Big Four were "Bogarting" all the big titles. I'm guessing someone like David Ferrer would have had a much better resume if he was born ten years before or after.

With Zverev I think it is a special case of someone who amounts to a "failed elite." His overall record is, as has been noted by various people including myself, probably the best for a non-Slam winner in the Open Era. If he's second tier, he's arguably the greatest second tier ever. My comment was more about his general unpopularity due to his entitled poutiness and other unsavory qualities. Plus the fact that he's got this "loser" vibe to him; thus, no one gives a shit.

 

[Moxie]

Cobolli blinked when serving for the match, up a break v. Shelton. Now there're into a final set TB.

 

[PhiEaglesfan712]

Shelton with a dominant 3rd set tiebreaker. He wins it over Cobolli 6-4, 4-6, 7-6(1).

 

[Fiero425]

Cobolli blinked when serving for the match, up a break v. Shelton. Now there're into a final set TB.

All top players depend on that "choke" when on the precipice of notoriety w/ a huge upset of a top seed; even the "Big 3" amongst themselves!

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Cobolli blinked when serving for the match, up a break v. Shelton. Now there're into a final set TB.

Sad to say he played a very poor TB against Shelton, he did have issues with his leg in the match, though the match was on his racket and he failed to serve out the match

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Fritz and Lehecka locked in a tight battle 1 set all and 5 games all in the 3rd set
3rd TB in this match 6 games all
Jiri had a 4-2 lead in the TB bur Fritz returned well and won the match 76(4) 67(5) 76 (5)
Fritz will play Rublev in the QF

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Mondays QFs matches for the men in Toronto,

Zverev vs Popyrin
Michelsen vs Khachanov

 

[PhiEaglesfan712]

Anyhow, I actually DON'T agree that the second tier is worse now...or at least it depends upon what you mean by "second tier" and what you're comparing it to. If we use it just generally to mean "outside of the elite, but recognizable names and guys who spend time in the top 10," then I think there's a wider assortment of 2nd tier types over the last 5-8ish years than there was during the Big Four Era. At the least, there's less "big title homogeneity," with more guys winning Masters. For a few years there, the Big Four were "Bogarting" all the big titles. I'm guessing someone like David Ferrer would have had a much better resume if he was born ten years before or after.

There's no way you can think the 2nd tier now is worse than in the early 2010s. If players in the 2nd tier include David Ferrer and JMDP, then take for example in 2012, Ferrer finished the year ranked #5 with 76 match wins and 7 titles, and JMDP finished the year #7 with 65 match wins and 4 titles. Outside of Carlos, no one this year has a chance at reaching 65 match wins (the 2nd most is Alex De Minaur and Alex Zverev, with 35 and July is finished).

Back in the Big 3 days, you needed close to 50 match wins to finish in the Year End Top 10. There's a chance that Carlos is the only player that reaches 50 match wins this year.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Novak Djokovic has withdrawn from Cincinnati, it appears he wont be playing any lead up tournament before the USO
I am not surprised as he was still seen holidaying in Greece and the Greek Islands

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Cincinnati Update:
OUT: Djokovic, Korda, Djere, SE Spot
IN: Nishioka, Tabilo, Gaston, McDonald

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

I had to laugh out loud at this comment,
Alexander Zverev has named Daniil Medvedev as the 'most annoying' player for him to face......

tennis365.com/tennis-news/al.