Chess

[DarthFed]

Re Erdogmus that’s fair. I was being slightly facetious. But… he’s the best player of his age ever.. for each of the last few years. Got the stamp from our Norwegian friend

Top level chess is fascinating. It’s rather obvious that players develop way faster today than they used to and the reasons are computers and online chess.

I have little doubt that a guy like Erdomus has played more games of chess in his 14 years than Kasparov has played in nearly 63 and it isn’t even close. Now most of those of course are online blitz and bullet but still…between that and pounding their heads against computers you now have a lot more prodigies reaching higher than ever at younger ages. On a side note, I won’t be surprised if Oro hits 2700 at an earlier age than Erdomus does given he just turned 12 and is already above 2500.

But…the fascinating thing is that a lot of recent prodigies hit a brick wall in their late teens and early 20’s. Wei is a decent example but Firouzja is probably a more prominent one. The guy is about 50 points lower than he was 4 years ago as an 18 year old, and now younger guys than him are playing better. We will see if guys like Keymer, Sindarov and Abdusatorrov make the next step up and are consistent. But that’s a big difference from the old days too where you saw much slower but more consistent development from great players at the same age. I do wonder if a lot of these young guns are burning out or related to that, the fact that they play so much blitz and bullet ultimately limits them in classical. I know Duda has expressed concerns over his mental health after just a couple bad results and was pondering an early retirement! It’s tough to say with any uncertainty as maybe not enough time has passed in the computer/online chess era to come to a conclusion about prodigies burning out early.

Who do you like for the candidates tournament? It’s wide open af IMO, more so than most candidates. Id say Abdusatorrov is most likely out of the young guns and then you have Hikaru and Caruana. As it stands whoever wins probably is favorite over Gukesh, another young gun who has been struggling quite a bit since becoming WC

 

[Federberg]

Top level chess is fascinating. It’s rather obvious that players develop way faster today than they used to and the reasons are computers and online chess.

I have little doubt that a guy like Erdomus has played more games of chess in his 14 years than Kasparov has played in nearly 63 and it isn’t even close. Now most of those of course are online blitz and bullet but still…between that and pounding their heads against computers you now have a lot more prodigies reaching higher than ever at younger ages. On a side note, I won’t be surprised if Oro hits 2700 at an earlier age than Erdomus does given he just turned 12 and is already above 2500.

But…the fascinating thing is that a lot of recent prodigies hit a brick wall in their late teens and early 20’s. Wei is a decent example but Firouzja is probably a more prominent one. The guy is about 50 points lower than he was 4 years ago as an 18 year old, and now younger guys than him are playing better. We will see if guys like Keymer, Sindarov and Abdusatorrov make the next step up and are consistent. But that’s a big difference from the old days too where you saw much slower but more consistent development from great players at the same age. I do wonder if a lot of these young guns are burning out or related to that, the fact that they play so much blitz and bullet ultimately limits them in classical. I know Duda has expressed concerns over his mental health after just a couple bad results and was pondering an early retirement! It’s tough to say with any uncertainty as maybe not enough time has passed in the computer/online chess era to come to a conclusion about prodigies burning out early.

Who do you like for the candidates tournament? It’s wide open af IMO, more so than most candidates. Id say Abdusatorrov is most likely out of the young guns and then you have Hikaru and Caruana. As it stands whoever wins probably is favorite over Gukesh, another young gun who has been struggling quite a bit since becoming WC

I think Fabi is the favourite and I would love him to win. For some reason I have a sneaky suspicion that Prag might surprise

 

[DarthFed]

I think Fabi is the favourite and I would love him to win. For some reason I have a sneaky suspicion that Prag might surprise

I am hoping for Caruana too, and even though I’m not the biggest Naka fan it’d also be kind of cool if he won it and had a chance at WC. Both Caruana and Hikaru will still have a couple more chances after this at the very least, but it will only get more difficult for them to win one of these (in Fabi’s case another one of these) as well as a WC match.

An all-Indian WC match would make for a heck of an event too but I’d rather one of the old dogs win it.

 

[Kieran]

Hell, since I’m here I may as well bump this one lol.

I don’t really see Carlos going all Safin or JMac but you never know. I do think, barring injury he’s going to beat Djokovic’s record and a lot earlier than people think, like age 32 or 33. Carlos is likely going to have 20+ before 30. I don’t think that’s a crazy prediction given he has 7 at age 22, and there is no real competition aside from Sinner who I just don’t think will keep up when all is said and done.

I agree, and I think Carlos handles the pressure well, too. Could be a young Buck comes along and terrifies him but we’ll see. And Novak‘s 24 had a favourable wind behind it.

 

[Kieran]

I am hoping for Caruana too, and even though I’m not the biggest Naka fan it’d also be kind of cool if he won it and had a chance at WC. Both Caruana and Hikaru will still have a couple more chances after this at the very least, but it will only get more difficult for them to win one of these (in Fabi’s case another one of these) as well as a WC match.

An all-Indian WC match would make for a heck of an event too but I’d rather one of the old dogs win it.

I like Naka’s YouTube channel, and I don’t know why he’s better at the faster games, I’d have thought a player like that would be even better with more time to think?

 

[DarthFed]

I like Naka’s YouTube channel, and I don’t know why he’s better at the faster games, I’d have thought a player like that would be even better with more time to think?

Naka strikes me as someone who just loves online blitz more than anything and obviously he has become the game’s most popular streamer as well. That said…he is the #2 player in the world in classical and is rated over 2800 after having some good results during the pandemic. But it doesn’t surprise me that you don’t see Naka play many big classical tournaments compared to the rest of the top players, not counting Carlsen who barely ever plays classical chess anymore.

And that’s why it will be intriguing to see how Naka does in the candidates as the rating favorite. He did have a decent candidates last time but aside from that he hasn’t been close to winning one.

 

[Kieran]

Naka strikes me as someone who just loves online blitz more than anything and obviously he has become the game’s most popular streamer as well. That said…he is the #2 player in the world in classical and is rated over 2800 after having some good results during the pandemic. But it doesn’t surprise me that you don’t see Naka play many big classical tournaments compared to the rest of the top players, not counting Carlsen who barely ever plays classical chess anymore.

And that’s why it will be intriguing to see how Naka does in the candidates as the rating favorite. He did have a decent candidates last time but aside from that he hasn’t been close to winning one.

Is this because it takes less prep and hard work to play online blitz? Are they becoming, in some sense, lazier, or taking the easy option?

Do you ever see a day where Magnus will enter the champions tournament, just for the sake of embellishing his reputation and retiring as the World Champion?

 

[brokenshoelace]

Is this because it takes less prep and hard work to play online blitz? Are they becoming, in some sense, lazier, or taking the easy option?

Do you ever see a day where Magnus will enter the champions tournament, just for the sake of embellishing his reputation and retiring as the World Champion?

It's just more casual fun. The games are quicker, and if you lose, the next one is just one click away, without having wasted 2 hours of your day.

 

[Kieran]

It's just more casual fun. The games are quicker, and if you lose, the next one is just one click away, without having wasted 2 hours of your day.

Is their legacy affected by this, given that classical chess is the default setting in that regard? Like a tennis player who’s great at best of three, but hasn’t the temper or patience for best of five?

 

[brokenshoelace]

Is their legacy affected by this, given that classical chess is the default setting in that regard? Like a tennis player who’s great at best of three, but hasn’t the temper or patience for best of five?

In short, yes. But Nakamura is also a terrific classical chess player.

 

[Federberg]

Hikaru had a great chance a few candidates. His loss to Ding if I remember correctly was a head scratcher. Think it was the last game

 

[DarthFed]

Is their legacy affected by this, given that classical chess is the default setting in that regard? Like a tennis player who’s great at best of three, but hasn’t the temper or patience for best of five?

I know I had a post about this on here awhile back but nowadays all the time controls matter more to players, as does Fischer Random (aka freestyle chess). It’s a big part of the reason it’s tough to compare prior eras to this one along with the development of computers. In Kasparov’s era and prior to it; rapid, blitz, blindfold. Fischer random and online chess (at the end of Kasparov’s reign) were just sideshows. They didn’t have nearly as many of those events and the top players were playing more classical games than they do now. And who would care if Anand or others won some rapid or blitz over Garry when he owned everyone in classical. Now it all matters. And a big part of Magnus’s resume is the fact he’s king at everything.

 

[DarthFed]

Is this because it takes less prep and hard work to play online blitz? Are they becoming, in some sense, lazier, or taking the easy option?

Do you ever see a day where Magnus will enter the champions tournament, just for the sake of embellishing his reputation and retiring as the World Champion?

Oh I absolutely see a day where Magnus plays classical again. Pretty much all great players have major egos so I am very confident that Magnus starts taking classical seriously again whenever a young gun overtakes him for #1. Hey I could be wrong but I think not…if Alireza, Erdogmus, etc shoot up past him he will not just sit back and take it.

 

[DarthFed]

It's just more casual fun. The games are quicker, and if you lose, the next one is just one click away, without having wasted 2 hours of your day.

Good to see you back man! And I totally agree with this. Online chess is awesome and though anyone who plays decently takes it seriously it is not quite as life and death as tournament chess.

And as you alluded to you can play dozens of games in a couple hours, whereas top level chess you are playing one game per day which probably lasts an average of 4 hours or more. Hell, some games last over 6 hours and you could literally play close to 100 three minute blitz games online in that span.

And with Naka it also goes beyond that; the guy is probably a multi-millionaire from his online streaming and he now has a wife and baby. I’d also say that he’s unlikely to have many friends and probably doesn’t truly enjoy classical games.

I say that from experience because personality-wise I’m similar, I don’t make friends playing chess. I learned how to play in high school and played a ton of online blitz. While I did like playing on the high school team it was mostly just one 45 minute game and the team aspect made it fun. For me, going to big tournaments and playing 2 games a day over the course of 10+ hours is not at all appealing. And that’s mainly why I stopped after 6 or 7 tournaments in my mid 20’s. Give me online blitz with likely half my games against masters all day over that. Of course with that said I have recently gotten back into classical tournaments to try to get the crappy little NM title to qualify for the big weekly tournaments on chess.com. Hopefully just a few tournaments away.

 

[Kieran]

Good to see you back man! And I totally agree with this. Online chess is awesome and though anyone who plays decently takes it seriously it is not quite as life and death as tournament chess.

And as you alluded to you can play dozens of games in a couple hours, whereas top level chess you are playing one game per day which probably lasts an average of 4 hours or more. Hell, some games last over 6 hours and you could literally play close to 100 three minute blitz games online in that span.

And with Naka it also goes beyond that; the guy is probably a multi-millionaire from his online streaming and he now has a wife and baby. I’d also say that he’s unlikely to have many friends and probably doesn’t truly enjoy classical games.

I say that from experience because personality-wise I’m similar, I don’t make friends playing chess. I learned how to play in high school and played a ton of online blitz. While I did like playing on the high school team it was mostly just one 45 minute game and the team aspect made it fun. For me, going to big tournaments and playing 2 games a day over the course of 10+ hours is not at all appealing. And that’s mainly why I stopped after 6 or 7 tournaments in my mid 20’s. Give me online blitz with likely half my games against masters all day over that. Of course with that said I have recently gotten back into classical tournaments to try to get the crappy little NM title to qualify for the big weekly tournaments on chess.com. Hopefully just a few tournaments away.

Good luck with that, hope you get it!

But as for the social aspect, I imagine chess is just such an inward looking game that it makes introverts of most players?

 

[DarthFed]

Good luck with that, hope you get it!

But as for the social aspect, I imagine chess is just such an inward looking game that it makes introverts of most players?

There definitely are a lot of introverts. But even beyond that, a lot of people that get into chess are imbalanced because chess can become everything to them. I always say that it’s the only thing I’ve been addicted to as I avoided all the “fun” addictions such as drugs, alcohol, sex, and gambling I can’t even explain the pull the game has. And now that I’ve started playing more these days…probably the most I’ve played since my early 20’s, I find myself thinking about chess all the time. A lot of my self-worth and sense of wellbeing gets tied into my results. So for me, I’m not introverted but I can’t imagine making friends with players unless there was some kind of team aspect, like in high school when i first started playing.

 

[DarthFed]

Top level chess is fascinating. It’s rather obvious that players develop way faster today than they used to and the reasons are computers and online chess.

I have little doubt that a guy like Erdomus has played more games of chess in his 14 years than Kasparov has played in nearly 63 and it isn’t even close. Now most of those of course are online blitz and bullet but still…between that and pounding their heads against computers you now have a lot more prodigies reaching higher than ever at younger ages. On a side note, I won’t be surprised if Oro hits 2700 at an earlier age than Erdomus does given he just turned 12 and is already above 2500.

But…the fascinating thing is that a lot of recent prodigies hit a brick wall in their late teens and early 20’s. Wei is a decent example but Firouzja is probably a more prominent one. The guy is about 50 points lower than he was 4 years ago as an 18 year old, and now younger guys than him are playing better. We will see if guys like Keymer, Sindarov and Abdusatorrov make the next step up and are consistent. But that’s a big difference from the old days too where you saw much slower but more consistent development from great players at the same age. I do wonder if a lot of these young guns are burning out or related to that, the fact that they play so much blitz and bullet ultimately limits them in classical. I know Duda has expressed concerns over his mental health after just a couple bad results and was pondering an early retirement! It’s tough to say with any uncertainty as maybe not enough time has passed in the computer/online chess era to come to a conclusion about prodigies burning out early.

Who do you like for the candidates tournament? It’s wide open af IMO, more so than most candidates. Id say Abdusatorrov is most likely out of the young guns and then you have Hikaru and Caruana. As it stands whoever wins probably is favorite over Gukesh, another young gun who has been struggling quite a bit since becoming WC

Just noticed that Abdusattorov isn’t even in the Candidates tournament. I had it in my head that he qualified at the World Cup but he lost pretty early to my buddy Jose Martinez (Jospem on chess.com). That’s one less big obstacle for everyone, as I would have rated his chances pretty much on par with Fabi and Hikaru.

 

[Federberg]

Just noticed that Abdusattorov isn’t even in the Candidates tournament. I had it in my head that he qualified at the World Cup but he lost pretty early to my buddy Jose Martinez (Jospem on chess.com). That’s one less big obstacle for everyone, as I would have rated his chances pretty much on par with Fabi and Hikaru.

yes that was a disappointment. Would have loved him in there instead of Anish, who I'm starting to increasingly dislike with all his attention grabbing posts on X. On the flip side though, Sindarov is there, what a golden era for Uzbekistan. They have two absolute killers that might end up dominating their age class, instead of the Indians we all keep talking about. Both of these guys just give off more ruthless championship vibes to me

 

[Federberg]

going to be interesting to see if they still hold the candidates in Cyprus, given what's happening right now