Fedalovic Wars

[El Dude]

I wish this website had an algorithm where all Fedalkovic Warring was automatically and immediately moved to the Fedalkovic Wars thread. One can dream...

 

[Kieran]

I wish this website had an algorithm where all Fedalkovic Warring was automatically and immediately moved to the Fedalkovic Wars thread. One can dream...

It’s true, but we’re a dying breed, let us have our final futile glories..

 

[El Dude]

It’s true, but we’re a dying breed, let us have our final futile glories..

Well, Novak is the only one with any remaining possible glories and those look rather questionable at this point.

But we've got at least three players to be really excited about (Alcaraz, Sinner, Fonseca), with many others who are at the least very interesting (Draper, Mensik, etc) -- all born after Roger played his first professional match, many after Rafa's first, and one or two even after Novak's.

We can look to the crazy speed-demon that is Alcaraz, who almost seems to be the immortal lovechild of Roger and Rafa, combining bits of Roger's magical finesse with some of Rafa's adamantine spirit (and legs), with a disarmingly charming boyish charisma. Or we've got stone-cold Sinner, who seems like a cannon-wielding version of Novak (if a bit less Gumby-esque), blasting the ball through everyone's defenses (except Carlos), without shedding a single bead of sweat. And of course the two combined are more than the sum of their parts: a study in, dare I say, equal contrasts of style and demeanor. Or we can look to young Joao Fonseca, who looks like the best answer we'll ever get to the wistful question: What would a healthy Del Potro look like, with the benefit of a quicker, more tennis-appropriate body? The sky's the limit for the young Brazilian, with his bossanova smiles and capoeira-esque skills. The hope of not only Brazil, but South America (and dear mrzz).

Or we can dig deeper and enter the Nordic Edda of Holger Rune and revel and mourn with JelenaFan the epic tale of drama with tinges of tragedy and comedy. Or we can enjoy the cool British bloke companionship of Jack Draper, the nice guy at the pub who might buy you a pint while he takes your girl. Or....well, maybe that's enough for now. You get the idea...lots of fun players and stories to go around, that are relevant now and tomorrow.

But...I mostly jest and almost feel a sense of homey familiarity when I see Fiero spouting "get off my lawn" old man inanities or see Moxie emerge out of nowhere, finding some random comment that she somehow interprets as a slight on Rafa, ready to do battle with shield and spear in hand. Or Front coming out with daggers already bloodied (though whose blood remains unclear; a somewhat suspicious stab wound in his own side), and mostly definitely when our board's Irish seanchai, painting with words about the artistry of ye olden tymes in a way that only he can. I can almost taste the creamy storm of barley and hops, and see the fading glimmer of the Tuatha de Danaan over preternaturally green hills.

So war on, my friends, war on. Love you all, those mentioned and those not. We're a tribe, of sorts!

 

[Kieran]

Well, Novak is the only one with any remaining possible glories and those look rather questionable at this point.

But we've got at least three players to be really excited about (Alcaraz, Sinner, Fonseca), with many others who are at the least very interesting (Draper, Mensik, etc) -- all born after Roger played his first professional match, many after Rafa's first, and one or two even after Novak's.

We can look to the crazy speed-demon that is Alcaraz, who almost seems to be the immortal lovechild of Roger and Rafa, combining bits of Roger's magical finesse with some of Rafa's adamantine spirit (and legs), with a disarmingly charming boyish charisma. Or we've got stone-cold Sinner, who seems like a cannon-wielding version of Novak (if a bit less Gumby-esque), blasting the ball through everyone's defenses (except Carlos), without shedding a single bead of sweat. And of course the two combined are more than the sum of their parts: a study in, dare I say, equal contrasts of style and demeanor. Or we can look to young Joao Fonseca, who looks like the best answer we'll ever get to the wistful question: What would a healthy Del Potro look like, with the benefit of a quicker, more tennis-appropriate body? The sky's the limit for the young Brazilian, with his bossanova smiles and capoeira-esque skills. The hope of not only Brazil, but South America (and dear mrzz).

Or we can dig deeper and enter the Nordic Edda of Holger Rune and revel and mourn with JelenaFan the epic tale of drama with tinges of tragedy and comedy. Or we can enjoy the cool British bloke companionship of Jack Draper, the nice guy at the pub who might buy you a pint while he takes your girl. Or....well, maybe that's enough for now. You get the idea...lots of fun players and stories to go around, that are relevant now and tomorrow.

But...I mostly jest and almost feel a sense of homey familiarity when I see Fiero spouting "get off my lawn" old man inanities or see Moxie emerge out of nowhere, finding some random comment that she somehow interprets as a slight on Rafa, ready to do battle with shield and spear in hand. Or Front coming out with daggers already bloodied (though whose blood remains unclear; a somewhat suspicious stab wound in his own side), and mostly definitely when our board's Irish seanchai, painting with words about the artistry of ye olden tymes in a way that only he can. I can almost taste the creamy storm of barley and hops, and see the fading glimmer of the Tuatha de Danaan over preternaturally green hills.

So war on, my friends, war on. Love you all, those mentioned and those not. We're a tribe, of sorts!

That’s brilliant stuff, brother! And you’re bloody right, we’ll carry the memory of these Fedalovich wars like a good barrister remembers a precedent in law that gets him a definite W.

It’s difficult to shake it off. Even when McEnroe said that Sinner and Alcaraz would beat Rafa in Paris, I thought well now, and in my head I found a thousand battles, based mainly on the thought that neither of them would have gotten to the fifth set, given Rafa’s allergy to fifth sets in RG finals.

But then I thought, but what if, and so what would Rafa do about The Magnificent Seven first points in the TB. He’d find a way, that’s what he’d do!!

But you know yourself, if we’re not partisans then we might as well watch soap operas instead. We’ll take our prejudices to the grave, where my gravestone will read “Here Lies Kieran Nobody Grumbling His Final Words Over and Over: Injuries, Context, Opportunity, Rafa!”

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

That’s brilliant stuff, brother! And you’re bloody right, we’ll carry the memory of these Fedalovich wars like a good barrister remembers a precedent in law that gets him a definite W.

It’s difficult to shake it off. Even when McEnroe said that Sinner and Alcaraz would beat Rafa in Paris, I thought well now, and in my head I found a thousand battles, based mainly on the thought that neither of them would have gotten to the fifth set, given Rafa’s allergy to fifth sets in RG finals.

But then I thought, but what if, and so what would Rafa do about The Magnificent Seven first points in the TB. He’d find a way, that’s what he’d do!!

But you know yourself, if we’re not partisans then we might as well watch soap operas instead. We’ll take our prejudices to the grave, where my gravestone will read “Here Lies Kieran Nobody Grumbling His Final Words Over and Over: Injuries, Context, Opportunity, Rafa!”

I thought Mac was drinking 'Kool Aid" when he said Sinner and Alcaraz would have beaten Rafa in Paris, honestly Mac 'Engage Brain Before Opening Your Mouth,

 

[Kieran]

I thought Mac was drinking 'Kool Aid" when he said Sinner and Alcaraz would have beaten Rafa in Paris, honestly Mac 'Engage Brain Before Opening Your Mouth,

We can see the level they played at was at times the next stage after the Big 3, that’s how tennis moves, but if Carlos gave Rafa as many opportunities as he gave Sinner to get the win, Rafa’s would have won in four sets, at worst. Sinner was up a break in the third, and Rafa is a giant compared to Sinner at this level. He tends to close the deal.

And Carlos didn’t really reach his highest level until the late third, and then late fourth set. Too late, in other words..

 

[El Dude]

That’s brilliant stuff, brother! And you’re bloody right, we’ll carry the memory of these Fedalovich wars like a good barrister remembers a precedent in law that gets him a definite W.

It’s difficult to shake it off. Even when McEnroe said that Sinner and Alcaraz would beat Rafa in Paris, I thought well now, and in my head I found a thousand battles, based mainly on the thought that neither of them would have gotten to the fifth set, given Rafa’s allergy to fifth sets in RG finals.

But then I thought, but what if, and so what would Rafa do about The Magnificent Seven first points in the TB. He’d find a way, that’s what he’d do!!

But you know yourself, if we’re not partisans then we might as well watch soap operas instead. We’ll take our prejudices to the grave, where my gravestone will read “Here Lies Kieran Nobody Grumbling His Final Words Over and Over: Injuries, Context, Opportunity, Rafa!”

Wow, I didn't hear that doozy from Mac: always the victim of recency bias, or the whim of the moment. How many times has he said some variant of "Certainly this match will determine the greatest of all time"?

Anyhow, I say BS to that. Evidently Mac doesn't remember Rafa at RG, especially 2008 to 2013. Rafa on clay, during that time especially (he wasn't quite as good in 2017-22, imo) was the greatest player I've ever seen (i.e. peak Rafa on clay = greatest player I've ever seen).

But...I resonate with an element of what he's saying as I'm grudgingly coming to the point that Alcaraz and Sinner, right now, are about as good as the Big Three were. Maybe not at their very best, but close, if not on par. We still haven't seen a reign of dominance like Roger in 2004-07, which remains the best four year run in tennis history. We haven't seen a season like Novak in 2015, which is the best season in ATP history (edging out even Laver in '69, Mac in '84, and Roger in '06). And to Mac's bombastic claim, we haven't seen a surface dominance like Rafa on clay.

Will any of those heights be equalled or surpassed by Alcaraz or Sinner? I don't think so, but who knows. Of the three "specialty domains" I mentioned, I think Rafa's is the most unreachable - that a player could be as dominant as he was on a surface, which to me is odd that Mac would think otherwise. But Mac is Mac.

 

[El Dude]

BTW,
Sinner breaking Novak's reconrd as 54 consecutive weeks as World No 1 ( Novak was at 53)

I don't understand this. 53 consecutive weeks is not the record - not even Novak's best run, which was 122 weeks in 2014-16.

And of course the record is Roger with 237 weeks in 2004-08.

 

[Moxie]

I'm bringing this over here. I couldn't really let @Fiero425 get away with saying that Djokovic gave Nadal an "assist" in 2022 at the AO. It's unreasonable to guess what Novak would have done for 6 matches, in a tournament that he didn't play. I say 6 matches, because I think he was scheduled to play Rafa in the SFs. So you're assuming he would have beaten him. It's a lot to assume. Especially given how unpopular Novak was in Australia at that moment. And given that he'd been detained and unable to practice. And how he was complaining that he couldn't get his dietician in. And the stress of it all. Frankly, I don't think he'd have ever made it to Nadal. And, as @Kieran says, Nadal showed up, and got the job done.

If Nadal gets an "assist" for Novak not playing that particular AO, think of all the "assists" that Novak and Roger got when Rafa was injured and failed to post. Fair to say?

 

[Fiero425]

I'm bringing this over here. I couldn't really let @Fiero425 get away with saying that Djokovic gave Nadal an "assist" in 2022 at the AO. It's unreasonable to guess what Novak would have done for 6 matches, in a tournament that he didn't play. I say 6 matches, because I think he was scheduled to play Rafa in the SFs. So you're assuming he would have beaten him. It's a lot to assume. Especially given how unpopular Novak was in Australia at that moment. And given that he'd been detained and unable to practice. And how he was complaining that he couldn't get his dietician in. And the stress of it all. Frankly, I don't think he'd have ever made it to Nadal. And, as @Kieran says, Nadal showed up, and got the job done.

If Nadal gets an "assist" for Novak not playing that particular AO, think of all the "assists" that Novak and Roger got when Rafa was injured and failed to post. Fair to say?

It's ok to assume Nadal would win in Paris on clay year in & year out, but after Novak's won the Aussie Open 10 times; 3 in a row twice, defeating Nadal in long & short matches on that court, but now there's all this freakin' doubt?! OMG, save me! This is getting almost as ridiculous as the differences seen by Republicans & Democrats! It's like night & day, wet & dry, hot & cold, then sane & insane!

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

I'm bringing this over here. I couldn't really let @Fiero425 get away with saying that Djokovic gave Nadal an "assist" in 2022 at the AO. It's unreasonable to guess what Novak would have done for 6 matches, in a tournament that he didn't play. I say 6 matches, because I think he was scheduled to play Rafa in the SFs. So you're assuming he would have beaten him. It's a lot to assume. Especially given how unpopular Novak was in Australia at that moment. And given that he'd been detained and unable to practice. And how he was complaining that he couldn't get his dietician in. And the stress of it all. Frankly, I don't think he'd have ever made it to Nadal. And, as @Kieran says, Nadal showed up, and got the job done.

If Nadal gets an "assist" for Novak not playing that particular AO, think of all the "assists" that Novak and Roger got when Rafa was injured and failed to post. Fair to say?

Pathetic response from him? Melbourne was the most lock down city in the world, and Novak lied to get into Aussie, he knew our rules, of course that didnt stop him, all he wanted was another AO title, I also blame Craig Tiley, who enabled Novak to get here, he should have been sacked after the fiasco, if Novak didnt believe in vaccinations that was his call, though he cant try and get into a country where we all had to have vaccinations. I mean Novak was said to have Covid himself and the rules were 2 weeks of not going out, what did he do the next day he went to a tennis presentation and handed out certificates?
Considering the injuries at times in Rafa's career if he had been able to play, yes he would have had more GS titles to his name

 

[Moxie]

It's ok to assume Nadal would win in Paris on clay year in & year out, but after Novak's won the Aussie Open 10 times; 3 in a row twice, defeating Nadal in long & short matches on that court, but now there's all this freakin' doubt?! OMG, save me! This is getting almost as ridiculous as the differences seen by Republicans & Democrats! It's like night & day, wet & dry, hot & cold, then sane & insane!

Well, it was fair to assume that Rafa would win RG, since he won it almost every time he played it. Basically, we don't even have to assume it...he just did.

Novak has won the AO 10 times out of 21 times played. Less than 50%. Certainly, 2022 was within the sweet spot of his winning days, and Djokovic would have been the favorite to win, if he'd played in 2022. But it doesn't mean he'd have won it. You can't make up 6-7 matches that were never played. He would definitely have had to go through Nadal, if he got that far, and they've had a tight match there. Plus, the other factors I mentioned. I honestly would have been surprised if he made it to the 2nd week.

 

[El Dude]

Eat it, Nadalkovic fans. Pure class:

 

[Jelenafan]

It's ok to assume Nadal would win in Paris on clay year in & year out, but after Novak's won the Aussie Open 10 times; 3 in a row twice, defeating Nadal in long & short matches on that court, but now there's all this freakin' doubt?! OMG, save me! This is getting almost as ridiculous as the differences seen by Republicans & Democrats! It's like night & day, wet & dry, hot & cold, then sane & insane!

Per the AO and your assumption that the tourney was a slum dunk for Novak It doesn't matter Fiero because Novak either LIED or disregarded flagrantly the health of others. He lied either when he said he got COVID and then was seen at a tourney in close proximity to others endangering, that lie was implying he was healthy among innocent people, OR he lied when he said he had immunity if he really didn't have COVID. Which lie was worse? IMO they are both equally bad.

So either way his LYING was going to impede his being able to play freely enough to win the AO. It's simple logic and deductive reasoning. As easy as night and day. ; )