BNP Paribas Open, Indian Wells, CA, 2020 - ATP Masters 1000

[mrzz]

I actually considered adding an umpire, a lines person or tournament official in there, who are generally older. However, I think you're not taking on board the importance of having valid insurance. My business is all about that. If your tournament insurance risks being invalidated against coverage for this virus because you were warned by a government entity, for example, that takes away your "Act of God" protection. You may say it's not provable that the exposure occurred at one particular event, but the tournament IS exposed by being incautious. On the other hand, I feel fairly certain that IW will have a valid insurance claim for their losses this fortnight, most likely as "act of god." They won't get it all, and will take a hit, but if I were weighing it in my hands, I'd have cancelled, too, from an insurance standpoint.

I see your point, but the problem here is more bureaucratic than real. I mean, the government agency warning simply voids your insurance, so I get the risks that the organizers are avoiding by this. Only thing is that this risk has little to do with actual infection risk.

 

[Moxie]

I see your point, but the problem here is more bureaucratic than real. I mean, the government agency warning simply voids your insurance, so I get the risks that the organizers are avoiding by this. Only thing is that this risk has little to do with actual infection risk.

I don't know how you can be sure that it has little to do with actual infection risk. In communities like Washington State, here in the US, it seems that it has been incubating for some time. There are many cases that have no connection to China, or even to travel. Until many other things are known, it's not just bureaucratic but sensible to cancel some kinds of big events. It's just tennis.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

I thing one thing that people aren't considering is that it's a two-way street. One case of Covid-19 in the Coachella valley, and it's an over-reaction. But people who come to IW come from LA, SF, etc, where there are many more cases, the risk is bringing it IN. Not to mention players who come from China and Italy, as two examples. Right now people are reconsidering large gatherings where you put people in close proximity. It just seems responsible.

Yes, but in classes it is the same group of students. The chances of someone bringing it in is less (unless this person went on a cruise for spring break etc).
The point is that cancellation of classes means the fear of Coronal Virus spreading is far higher than implied by cancellation of SXSW or IW.

 

[mrzz]

I don't know how you can be sure that it has little to do with actual infection risk. In communities like Washington State, here in the US, it seems that it has been incubating for some time. There are many cases that have no connection to China, or even to travel. Until many other things are known, it's not just bureaucratic but sensible to cancel some kinds of big events. It's just tennis.

Definitely I am not sure of anything. It is hard to make a rational assessment. From a local government perspective, yes, it makes sense to halt the influx of outsiders that could be vectors (sounds familiar?). On the other, all human activity is always based on a trade-off of risk and return. All the measures being taken world wide indicate that either people in charge are overestimating the risk (unlikely), or the general public is not being correctly informed about everything.

 

[the AntiPusher]

This is completely and utterly stupid and a result of the utterly depraved American media (starting with the New York Times and Washington Post) having too much influence on world news. The swine flu outbreak in 2009-2010 was far worse than what is happening with coronavirus and nothing was cancelled. That was because the media's beloved Obama was in power and they did not want the economy to tank. This hype is entirely exaggerated and meant to take out Trump in an election year. In the end this is all this will amount to.

The reason for cancelling Indian Wells was that there was one - yes one - confirmed case of coronavirus in the Coachella Valley. And for the idiots who run California, that was enough to call off the event. But they don't have a problem with feces and drug needles all over San Francisco or tent cities all over Los Angeles.

This is truly one of the dumbest displays of mass hysteria I have ever witnessed, second only to the Russian collusion narrative after Trump defeated Hillary.

Oh absolutely the covid-19 virus is going to have a negative reflection upon Trump's legacy although he is already blaming President Obama administration.

As for "dumbest displays of mass hysteria"..you do realize that it's 113,000 known cases worldwide.(the last number was a few more than 100,000) on Saturday evening.. it's appears to be more than mass hysteria..

Number#44 was beloved because it was well deserved, IMO

 

[Moxie]

Yes, but in classes it is the same group of students. The chances of someone bringing it in is less (unless this person went on a cruise for spring break etc).
The point is that cancellation of classes means the fear of Coronal Virus spreading is far higher than implied by cancellation of SXSW or IW.

Sure, it's the same group of students within a university setting, but they don't all go to the same classes and they don't all come from the same places, or have the same exposures. Plus, they all just went away on winter break. Did it escape your notice that there are lots of school groups that went to Italy and are coming back quarantined? In the university or school context, you can more or less easily teach from remote, so I can see why it's a reasonable precaution.

 

[Moxie]

Definitely I am not sure of anything. It is hard to make a rational assessment. From a local government perspective, yes, it makes sense to halt the influx of outsiders that could be vectors (sounds familiar?). On the other, all human activity is always based on a trade-off of risk and return. All the measures being taken world wide indicate that either people in charge are overestimating the risk (unlikely), or the general public is not being correctly informed about everything.

It is both likely that the people in charge are being cautious within the bounds of what is reasonable, and that yes, that the general public is not completely well-informed. I'm not clear that the powers that be are well-informed. This seems to be a work in progress. But a certain amount of isolation, rather than willfully putting people together for the sake of, say, sporting events, seems the right course of action. Hopefully in a few months we all understand it better.

 

[Nadalfan2013]

So why did they cancel the tournament and not actually have it played in empty stadiums like some soccer matches have done? At least they’d get some revenues from TV and we’d be able to watch... I’d even say they’d get higher TV ratings just on the curiosity factor alone of seeing players compete in empty stadiums.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Tommy with the instructions from Larry Ellison made the right decision.. hopefully in a few weeks things will get better worldwide

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Sure, it's the same group of students within a university setting, but they don't all go to the same classes and they don't all come from the same places, or have the same exposures. Plus, they all just went away on winter break. Did it escape your notice that there are lots of school groups that went to Italy and are coming back quarantined? In the university or school context, you can more or less easily teach from remote, so I can see why it's a reasonable precaution.

May be they should play IW online.

 

[Front242]

Let's be real here. They canceled cos of 1 confirmed case only because the US health system sucks and it suits the government to show the overall confirmed cases as low. The actual number of cases is probably 10 to 20 times higher minimum. No way they want to test on a large scale and release true data. China are lying the same way and there's absolutely zero chance the stats released are true. The only country really getting my respect right now on a large scale is Italy.

 

[Moxie]

Let's be real here. They canceled cos of 1 confirmed case only because the US health system sucks and it suits the government to show the overall confirmed cases as low. The actual number of cases is probably 10 to 20 times higher minimum. No way they want to test on a large scale and release true data. China are lying the same way and there's absolutely zero chance the stats released are true. The only country really getting my respect right now on a large scale is Italy.

Even if you leave off paranoia and conspiracy theories, the truth is the people in the US aren't getting tested in anything like the numbers they are in Italy. Tests not "available." Trump says in so many words that he likes the numbers low. (He doesn't so much speak of the human toll as imply the political cost of "numbers.") Playing this whole thing down isn't really helping us.

 

[Fiero425]

Tommy with the instructions from Larry Ellison made the right decision.. hopefully in a few weeks things will get better worldwide

Oh man, this comes along just in time to screw up Larry's tourney; the biggest after the USO! The Lipton Int'l was supposed to be anointed the "5th Major" at it's inception in '85, but Ellison took IW's to new heights I didn't think possible! If not for California being so hard to incorporate, he'd probably annex more property to make it even bigger than the USO; maybe with thoughts of moving our Nat'l Chp. there someday! I wonder how the tour will make this up; esp. with the "also rans" scrambling for $$ and points?

 

[Front242]

Even if you leave off paranoia and conspiracy theories, the truth is the people in the US aren't getting tested in anything like the numbers they are in Italy. Tests not "available." Trump says in so many words that he likes the numbers low. (He doesn't so much speak of the human toll as imply the political cost of "numbers.") Playing this whole thing down isn't really helping us.

The numbers are high in Italy because there are lots of old people there. 60% of the country are over age 40 apparently. Another 168 people died in Italy since yesterday. Another 977 confirmed cases there since yesterday and 877 critical. Very sad.

 

[Jelenafan]

The numbers are high in Italy because there are lots of old people there. 60% of the country are over age 40 apparently. Another 168 people died in Italy since yesterday. Another 977 confirmed cases there since yesterday and 877 critical. Very sad.

The strain on the health care system in Northern Italy has been enormous, despite being by far the best in the country. Peoples parents and grandparents need hospital beds and my friends tell me they can’t afford another mass of patients.

 

[Moxie]

The numbers are high in Italy because there are lots of old people there. 60% of the country are over age 40 apparently. Another 168 people died in Italy since yesterday. Another 977 confirmed cases there since yesterday and 877 critical. Very sad.

Italy has had a low birth rate for years, therefore a higher average aged population. I'm still not clear, though, why they've been SO hard hit.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Oh man, this comes along just in time to screw up Larry's tourney; the biggest after the USO! The Lipton Int'l was supposed to be anointed the "5th Major" at it's inception in '85, but Ellison took IW's to new heights I didn't think possible! If not for California being so hard to incorporate, he'd probably annex more property to make it even bigger than the USO; maybe with thoughts of moving our Nat'l Chp. there someday! I wonder how the tour will make this up; esp. with the "also rans" scrambling for $$ and points?

Very good points you made.
Yes back in the day the Lipton now Miami open was the 5 major and your right Larry E took it to the next level and then some..Haas says they may look for an alternative date..that may be tough with the Olympics this year .Good question about the points

 

[Front242]

Italy has had a low birth rate for years, therefore a higher average aged population. I'm still not clear, though, why they've been SO hard hit.

All it takes is a few flights worth of infected people to bring it back home to the elderly with weakened immune systems. Glad they finally stopped flights to and from Italy cos they took long to do it and have infected tons of Europe now. Moronic tbh it wasn't done sooner by all of Europe travelling to and from the worst hit areas. Too late now.

 

[the AntiPusher]

All it takes is a few flights worth of infected people to bring it back home to the elderly with weakened immune systems. Glad they finally stopped flights to and from Italy cos they took long to do it and have infected tons of Europe now. Moronic tbh it wasn't done sooner by all of Europe travelling to and from the worst hit areas. Too late now.

It's Never too late Bro. There's always hope..

 

[Jelenafan]

Even if you leave off paranoia and conspiracy theories, the truth is the people in the US aren't getting tested in anything like the numbers they are in Italy. Tests not "available." Trump says in so many words that he likes the numbers low. (He doesn't so much speak of the human toll as imply the political cost of "numbers.") Playing this whole thing down isn't really helping us.

South Korea has not done large scale population quarantines, however, they have done massive FREE testing for the virus to the populace, in fact I'm sure most of us have seen the drive thru testing sites S. Korea has put up to make it as convenient as possible. Within hours people know the results. They have done over 200,000 tests and have set up a nationwide education and information online network to the public regarding the virus. This is a Western-style Government that has a focus coordinated effort.

Population-wise, the South Korean 200,000+ tests would be the equivalent of over a million Americans tested for the virus.

The American "count" of testing so far? 3,000.

Numbers don't lie.