Year-End #1 vs. ATP ranked #1 at year's end

[Federberg]

The Cowboys atop of the football ranking, Fed is ahead of Rafa .. well Mama said it would be days like this..

haha! I certainly agree with you about the Cowboys Being a giants fan, that's really painful. And not helped by the schooling we got against the noisy neighbours last night! Ugggh...

Who do you support Anti?

 

[Federberg]

DF I hate to disagree but...

As of October 13, Roger Federer leads all ATP players this season in…
* Match wins (61)
* Hard court wins (45)
* Outdoor wins (56)
* Final appearances (9)
* Semifinal appearances (11)
* Top 10 wins (13)
* ATP Masters 1000 wins (26)

You simply can't call this a bad year. Disappointing not to win a slam yes, but bad? No it just can't be..

 

[Billie]

At least Darth is consistent about his opinion on this matter for ALL players.

 

[DarthFed]

DF I hate to disagree but...

As of October 13, Roger Federer leads all ATP players this season in…
* Match wins (61)
* Hard court wins (45)
* Outdoor wins (56)
* Final appearances (9)
* Semifinal appearances (11)
* Top 10 wins (13)
* ATP Masters 1000 wins (26)

You simply can't call this a bad year. Disappointing not to win a slam yes, but bad? No it just can't be..

He has played great, and has easily been the most consistent player on tour but do you really think it's a good year for Roger when he doesn't win a slam, YEC or get to #1? I don't. I should also clarify that my expectations of Roger coming into this year is that he wouldn't win a slam. He has done a lot better than I figured but that doesn't mean he had a good year (results-wise).

 

[DarthFed]

The Cowboys atop of the football ranking, Fed is ahead of Rafa .. well Mama said it would be days like this..

haha! I certainly agree with you about the Cowboys Being a giants fan, that's really painful. And not helped by the schooling we got against the noisy neighbours last night! Ugggh...

Who do you support Anti?

I wouldn't worry about the Cowboys making any noise come January. Romo's record/stats in December and January are so appalling that it's almost too good to be true. The Giants probably aren't going anywhere either now that Cruz is out.

 

[El Dude]

He has played great, and has easily been the most consistent player on tour but do you really think it's a good year for Roger when he doesn't win a slam, YEC or get to #1? I don't. I should also clarify that my expectations of Roger coming into this year is that he wouldn't win a slam. He has done a lot better than I figured but that doesn't mean he had a good year (results-wise).

Darth, I think the bottom line is that you're not accepting his age, that we simply can't expept as much from Roger at 33 as we did at 25. There are very few players in the history of the game that were playing anywhere close to their peak form at age 33. Among all-time greats, only Agassi, Connors and Rosewall come to mind among the Open Era - oh yeah, and Roger. Not one of those players was as good at 33 as they were at 25, and only Rosewall won a Slam at 33 or older, but all were remarkably successful into their mid-30s.

The bright side of all of this is that Roger looks better going into 2015 than he did going into 2014, despite being a year older. Can he keep it up in 2015? I think so. If anything, he's gotten better over this year as he's settled into his new racquet and newish serve-and-volley attack. I think he has a decent shot at a Slam next year, but am trying to temper my expectation. But just as players are bucking historical trends by peaking later, I don't see why Roger can't also buck historical trends by maintaining his "plateau" form into his mid-30s.

 

[the AntiPusher]

The Cowboys atop of the football ranking, Fed is ahead of Rafa .. well Mama said it would be days like this..

haha! I certainly agree with you about the Cowboys Being a giants fan, that's really painful. And not helped by the schooling we got against the noisy neighbours last night! Ugggh...

Who do you support Anti?

I am a 49ers fan , so I am having a rough year

 

[El Dude]

When I read some of these posts, I feel like they are talking about robots, not human beings that get affected by a lot of things.uzzled

I think it is exactly because Roger is not a robot that he's been able to be so good at age 33. As Cali has pointed out, again and again, a player's skills can remain strong into their 30s, but what changes is motivation and the ability to cope with slower recovery time and make necessary adjustments, both physically and psychologically. In other words, I think what happens to most players isn't as much, or isn't only, that they physically or technically decline in their 30s, but that they get less return on their investment, so to speak, and eventually decide it isn't worth it, it is just too damn hard finding one's best game - even if that best game is still there.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

^ ITF does, though (called "World Champion"). and in the unlikely event of Fed getting to #1 AND taking DC, or taking DC, WTF and missing the #1 by just a couple of points, this could well be the trickiest decision in years (even though the Slams are specifically named as forming the "decisive factor" there - clearly giving an edge to Novak).

(have fun, guys and gals )

Yes. ITF has "World Champion" award. It is based exclusively on a player's performance
in ITF sponsored events such as GS, DC and Hopman Cup. WTF, while a significant event,
is not sponsored by ITF and is an ATP event.

If you restrict to points obtained in GS, this year Novak has 4280 points , Rafa has 3380 and Roger has 2820. Although the "World Champion" award is not determined by a formula
(it is voted on by a committee), I think "World Champion" award will go to Novak independently
of who finishes YE #1, who wins WTF and who wins DC. Finally, I think it is fair too.

 

[bajana]

His record as a 33 year old is already exceptional. His longevity and stamina are unprecedented, Darth, these are serious achievements. I get tired of saying it but Roger is like Dorian Gray, when you think of absolutely everybody else. He's a physical freak. So why you think that yet another major is the only measure of a great season for him is baffling: the fact that he dispatched Nole so often this year, and reached a slam final and 2 other semis, might still finish #1 and could yet win the WTF is a WTF-year, indeed...

Getting to a slam semi or even final is not an achievement, especially for Roger. All that gives him is money he doesn't need and ranking points (which can be important for him to stay in top 4, get in top 2, possibly get #1). But we agree that winning WTF and especially getting #1 would be monumental and would add something big to his resume. So it remains to be seen how he finishes the year, but I'd imagine his expectations are still high and he knows being close to winning another major isn't good enough for him.

As a Fed fan since his Wimby Jr run in 1998, I have to say DarthFed, it sounds like being close to winning another major is more not good enough for you, than for Roger. Me, I'm just grateful he still enjoys the game so much that he still wants to keep playing.

 

[DarthFed]

His record as a 33 year old is already exceptional. His longevity and stamina are unprecedented, Darth, these are serious achievements. I get tired of saying it but Roger is like Dorian Gray, when you think of absolutely everybody else. He's a physical freak. So why you think that yet another major is the only measure of a great season for him is baffling: the fact that he dispatched Nole so often this year, and reached a slam final and 2 other semis, might still finish #1 and could yet win the WTF is a WTF-year, indeed...

Getting to a slam semi or even final is not an achievement, especially for Roger. All that gives him is money he doesn't need and ranking points (which can be important for him to stay in top 4, get in top 2, possibly get #1). But we agree that winning WTF and especially getting #1 would be monumental and would add something big to his resume. So it remains to be seen how he finishes the year, but I'd imagine his expectations are still high and he knows being close to winning another major isn't good enough for him.

As a Fed fan since his Wimby Jr run in 1998, I have to say DarthFed, it sounds like being close to winning another major is more not good enough for you, than for Roger. Me, I'm just grateful he still enjoys the game so much that he still wants to keep playing.

Well I don't think any of us know him personally and can ask him but I doubt he thinks so lowly of his abilities that he is just happy to go deep in slams. I think Roger looks at the improvement in his play, especially at majors, as a good sign for the future but I don't think going to the semis or finals itself is what he wants. Winning big tourneys like Shanghai has to feel great for him but is winning the occasional MS and staying in the top 3 enough to satisfy him, especially when Rafa is closing in on 17? Doubtful.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Tignor on future of men's tennis.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Don't forget to cast your vote for your favorite player and favorite doubles team at
the fan's favorite poll section in ATP web page.

 

[bajana]

His record as a 33 year old is already exceptional. His longevity and stamina are unprecedented, Darth, these are serious achievements. I get tired of saying it but Roger is like Dorian Gray, when you think of absolutely everybody else. He's a physical freak. So why you think that yet another major is the only measure of a great season for him is baffling: the fact that he dispatched Nole so often this year, and reached a slam final and 2 other semis, might still finish #1 and could yet win the WTF is a WTF-year, indeed...

Getting to a slam semi or even final is not an achievement, especially for Roger. All that gives him is money he doesn't need and ranking points (which can be important for him to stay in top 4, get in top 2, possibly get #1). But we agree that winning WTF and especially getting #1 would be monumental and would add something big to his resume. So it remains to be seen how he finishes the year, but I'd imagine his expectations are still high and he knows being close to winning another major isn't good enough for him.

As a Fed fan since his Wimby Jr run in 1998, I have to say DarthFed, it sounds like being close to winning another major is more not good enough for you, than for Roger. Me, I'm just grateful he still enjoys the game so much that he still wants to keep playing.

Well I don't think any of us know him personally and can ask him but I doubt he thinks so lowly of his abilities that he is just happy to go deep in slams. I think Roger looks at the improvement in his play, especially at majors, as a good sign for the future but I don't think going to the semis or finals itself is what he wants. Winning big tourneys like Shanghai has to feel great for him but is winning the occasional MS and staying in the top 3 enough to satisfy him, especially when Rafa is closing in on 17? Doubtful.

As you said, none of us knows him personally, so you too are merely speculating. However, from one report from someone who was present at a dinner he hosted at a restaurant soon after losing at a major, he does seem very capable of putting his losses behind him very fast. No point dwelling non-stop after the moving finger has writ and moved on. If he hangs around bemoaning the year because he hasn't won a major, there's a good chance he won't focus on winning the next one - too busy moaning.

 

[DarthFed]

I agree and I doubt Roger is moaning about the year he has had. No one is better at getting over tough defeats. Also Roger has been the most consistent player on tour. I'm sure he is happy with how he has played this year but is he happy with how it's turned out results-wise so far? As you say it's speculation on our parts but I think the man is still ambitious when it comes to majors and should be.

 

[fedfan]

I agree and I doubt Roger is moaning about the year he has had. No one is better at getting over tough defeats. Also Roger has been the most consistent player on tour. I'm sure he is happy with how he has played this year but is he happy with how it's turned out results-wise so far? As you say it's speculation on our parts but I think the man is still ambitious when it comes to majors and should be.

Darth, please grasp and process these words...

"He's 33 and far removed from his prime."

Others have said it and it appears to go in one ear and out the other.

What goes with age? Stamina in best of 5 especially against top players, consistency, nerves, etc.

It is quite remarkable what he's done this year.

If he was slamless at 28, I don't think anyone would disagree with you.

 

[Kieran]

Exactly. Enjoy him while he's playing because it could be that next year he jet-lags very suddenly and his results go bad. I think that what he's doing this year will keep Federer in the sport beyond his 35th birthday, however...

 

[DarthFed]

I agree and I doubt Roger is moaning about the year he has had. No one is better at getting over tough defeats. Also Roger has been the most consistent player on tour. I'm sure he is happy with how he has played this year but is he happy with how it's turned out results-wise so far? As you say it's speculation on our parts but I think the man is still ambitious when it comes to majors and should be.

Darth, please grasp and process these words...

"He's 33 and far removed from his prime."

Others have said it and it appears to go in one ear and out the other.

What goes with age? Stamina in best of 5 especially against top players, consistency, nerves, etc.

It is quite remarkable what he's done this year.

If he was slamless at 28, I don't think anyone would disagree with you.

Oh I know bud. I'm not delusional enough to think that Roger should be mopping up multiple slams like the old days and I doubt even he thinks it can be like that anymore. But Roger was a remarkable 23-32 year old so I'm not surprised he is playing great for his age. And he is the all-time slam champion who still has plenty of skill clearly. His expectations are naturally lower but should they be low period?

Can someone with the greatest career to date be happy just going deep at slams and winning a couple Masters? Honestly I hope the answer is no in his case. As mentioned before if he wins YEC and/or gets to #1 that is a different case and it'd be monumental. But in my mind he still has the ability to win Wimbledon and USO(people might think I'm nuts for saying the latter) and truthfully he doesn't need much to go his way there to make it happen. Just cut through the first 4-5 matches like he did at Wimbledon and he has (or at least had) a very good chance.

 

[Front242]

You have to go back to 2003 before Roger reached less than the semis at the AO which given how slow/medium hard courts are toughest for him since he's past his peak is pretty remarkable. Imo, depending on the draw, that should make him have a good chance this coming AO. Being number 2 will of course really help his cause. Better still for the confidence to go in as number 1.

 

[DarthFed]

You can't count him out anywhere except maybe RG. That is impressive in and of it itself. But that said for AO he would definitely need Rafa and Nole on the same half and assuming Roger secures at least #2 there is a 50-50 chance of that happening.