Will Nadal pass Federer?

[Moxie]

Neither Mirka nor Xisca are beards to these guys. Where do people get these ideas?

Standard operating procedure for some on sports boards to undermine a foe's masculinity. Nothing could be worse than an athlete being gay, right?

 

[Moxie]

And here I thought discussing Ken Rosewall's comment was bad.

That wasn't what the discussion was about, but you never got that.

 

[10isfan]

True. Kids can derail a career. Look at Fritz and Baghdatis. Fed said it was tough managing the babies and his tennis. I was disappointed he didn’t wait longer to have children. Djoke and Murray could have waited. Nadal is the smartest of the bunch not to let his personal life interfere with his professional pursuit (unless he can’t be a father for the reason I cited).

 

[Moxie]

True. Kids can derail a career. Look at Fritz and Baghdatis. Fed said it was tough managing the babies and his tennis. I was disappointed he didn’t wait longer to have children. Djoke and Murray could have waited. Nadal is the smartest of the bunch not to let his personal life interfere with his professional pursuit (unless he can’t be a father for the reason I cited).

For sure it can't be easy, but the Federer's have money and Mirka is committed that they all mostly still travel together. Many commies have joked about the size of their entourage. One can only imagine with nannies, etc. You might remember that Mirka is a little older than Roger, so I'm sure that waiting wasn't really an option. Nadal has just said that he wants to be home with his children, not to miss their early years, and María is younger, so they have time. The "reason (you) cited" is that you think Nadal could be gay. I don't know what makes you think so, but it doesn't prevent him from having children.

 

[brokenshoelace]

That wasn't what the discussion was about, but you never got that.

Yes, Moxie. Debating Political Correctness vs. Politeness is such a nuanced, complicated issue, that my simpleton brain cannot possibly understand it.

And here you are, again, taking a joke literally (a joke meant to highlight the stupidity of discussing these players' sexuality).

 

[Moxie]

I think we were both highlighting the stupidity of discussing players' sexuality.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

I agree with everything you say in general. The only thing is about the speed of the court of the AO. The last time it had a big change to Plexicushion was in 2008. The last few years the speed of the courts have not significantly increased (it is still rated as medium hard and slower than the one at UsOpen officially). I don't think the court plays very differently from the time Novak was winning. And Djokovic's game suits the AO surface to a T. It's like how Rafa's game is at the French Open. If Novak gets to his best. he will definitely be a favorite at the AO.
Also for UsOpen, even if it is getting slower, Deco Turf plays differently from PC in terms of the bounce and the spin. One reason why Nadal has more success at the UsOpen compared to the AO, where his shots just sit up and don't take much spin.

No, you are wrong. The nature of surface might not have changed, but they have really speed up AO. I have previously posted elsewhere a chart showing speeds of different courts and I believe AO courts are actually in top three or so. Further, it is also true that USO courts have actually slowed down. In particular, the current of speed of USO courts are provable slower than the current speed of AO courts. Orange is the new black.

What is the import of this? The x-factor Novak when he comes back is more likely to find success at USO than AO. Given that Roger favors AO courts and Rafa favors USO courts, Rafa will be more damaged than Roger when the x-factor of Novak comes back to life.

However, I agree that Rafa is more likely to hold on to clay turf against Novak than Roger with grass.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Marriage is irrelevant, it's the baby that could destroy a career. I mean Fed won 5 since the first set of twins but that's in 9 years and he did very little from AO 2010 (the girls were like 5 months old). to start of 2017. It's got to be tough. Anyways with that exotic piece in his box he should be giving her a kid or two. What else would he be doing aside from tennis? Maybe someone needs to teach that boy how to swing a different stick.

That’s most likely why the Tennis God didnt give me the gift to be on the ATP tour..I would’ve been swinging my different stick like I was a combination of Vitas Gerulatis and Marat Safin.. The doubles team of Hingis and Kournikova would’ve been top of my list to conquer.

 

[brokenshoelace]

No, you are wrong. The nature of surface might not have changed, but they have really speed up AO. I have previously posted elsewhere a chart showing speeds of different courts and I believe AO courts are actually in top three or so. Further, it is also true that USO courts have actually slowed down. In particular, the current of speed of USO courts are provable slower than the current speed of AO courts. Orange is the new black.

What is the import of this? The x-factor Novak when he comes back is more likely to find success at USO than AO. Given that Roger favors AO courts and Rafa favors USO courts, Rafa will be more damaged than Roger when the x-factor of Novak comes back to life.

However, I agree that Rafa is more likely to hold on to clay turf against Novak than Roger with grass.

Regardless of court speed, the conditions in Australia favor Novak more than New York. They're just more stable, so to speak. The US Open can be more windy and unpredictable.

 

[imjimmy]

Regardless of court speed, the conditions in Australia favor Novak more than New York. They're just more stable, so to speak. The US Open can be more windy and unpredictable.

Agree. In addition, it's also about the type of balls they use. The balls at AO fly though more. And regardless of the speed, the deco turf at UsOpen does take more spin than the PC at AO. Nadal doesn't always prefer slower courts. That said, the AO is definitely tailor made for Djokovic's game. And I think if he gets back to his best, he would be the favorite over Federer there.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Here is the latest CPI (Court Pace Index) of different tennis tourneys in the ATP/ITF Circuit

As you can see from the data, Australian Open's CPI is the second highest, the highest being Shanghai Courts. The third highest is WTF London. Wimbledon comes only at #5 even below the Bercy courts.

Also, the difference between CPI of AO courts and USO courts is considerable difference and is not some minor negligible difference.

 

[Jelenafan]

I agree. Roger can't go weak or he will have a lifetime of regret.

Oh he may have a fleeting moment of regret here and there once his playing days are over, but with life, love, death, marriage, kids, and before you know it grandkids and great grandkids, it may accumulate to a only a few weeks of regret, maybe 4 tops.

No biggie, at least for him.

Some of his fans, well....yea, for them it may be a lifetime.

 

[DarthFed]

Oh he may have a fleeting moment of regret here and there once his playing days are over, but with life, love, death, marriage, kids, and before you know it grandkids and great grandkids, it may accumulate to a only a few weeks of regret, maybe 4 tops.

No biggie, at least for him.

Some of his fans, well....yea, for them it may be a lifetime.

We will agree to disagree. Whoever finishes on the wrong side of the slam race will be a lot more pissed off and regretful than a lot of fans seem to think. These are competitive people, the game is more than just money and fame.

 

[monfed]

Oh he may have a fleeting moment of regret here and there once his playing days are over, but with life, love, death, marriage, kids, and before you know it grandkids and great grandkids, it may accumulate to a only a few weeks of regret, maybe 4 tops.

No biggie, at least for him.

Some of his fans, well....yea, for them it may be a lifetime.

Nadal would've retired by now if he was not crazy about the slam record.

 

[Moxie]

We will agree to disagree. Whoever finishes on the wrong side of the slam race will be a lot more pissed off and regretful than a lot of fans seem to think. These are competitive people, the game is more than just money and fame.

I agree with Jelenafan. Even if Rafa should end up with more Major titles than Roger, there is no way he passes him in enough other categories, and Roger will still be, and consider himself, the GOAT. He'd be a puny person if he had anything more than the odd passing regret about the career he has had and will likely continue to have until he hangs them up. You're just fretting because Rafa won another one on Sunday.

 

[Moxie]

Nadal would've retired by now if he was not crazy about the slam record.

I don't see there is any way that is true. He's only just turned 32. He loves tennis and competition, (and surely competition with Roger and Novak is part of it.) But he has no reason to quit. He has a great job, and he enjoys the challenge of seeing what he can still accomplish. Having just won the French again, I doubt he's sitting around on his boat thinking: "If it weren't for that damned Federer, I could just keep fishing." B-)

 

[monfed]

I don't see there is any way that is true. He's only just turned 32. He loves tennis and competition, (and surely competition with Roger and Novak is part of it.) But he has no reason to quit. He has a great job, and he enjoys the challenge of seeing what he can still accomplish. Having just won the French again, I doubt he's sitting around on his boat thinking: "If it weren't for that damned Federer, I could just keep fishing." B-)

No way that is true, huh? Ok then.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Agree. In addition, it's also about the type of balls they use. The balls at AO fly though more. And regardless of the speed, the deco turf at UsOpen does take more spin than the PC at AO. Nadal doesn't always prefer slower courts. That said, the AO is definitely tailor made for Djokovic's game. And I think if he gets back to his best, he would be the favorite over Federer there.

Rafa can make some serious inroads into Federer's if he continues to commit to hitting the crosscourt bh to Roger's fh. In laments terms by being more offensive and agressive on the bh will put roger on the defensive instead of letting Roger dictates the pace. This is exactly what Roger did with his bh to Rafa's fh..The two handed bh will win the battle most of the time. E.g. Novak's improved H2H record against Roger.

 

[the AntiPusher]

I don't see there is any way that is true. He's only just turned 32. He loves tennis and competition, (and surely competition with Roger and Novak is part of it.) But he has no reason to quit. He has a great job, and he enjoys the challenge of seeing what he can still accomplish. Having just won the French again, I doubt he's sitting around on his boat thinking: "If it weren't for that damned Federer, I could just keep fishing." B-)

Remember Moxie and all..All Rafa has to do is have another 3 grandslam winning season plus maybe another 2 grandslam winning season to become the grandslam titles leader..He has to take a few more Wimbledons or deny Roger from his most coveted possession.

 

[DarthFed]

Rafa can make some serious inroads into Federer's if he continues to commit to hitting the crosscourt bh to Roger's fh. In laments terms by being more offensive and agressive on the bh will put roger on the defensive instead of letting Roger dictates the pace. This is exactly what Roger did with his bh to Rafa's fh..The two handed bh will win the battle most of the time. E.g. Novak's improved H2H record against Roger.

Roger just needs to keep playing first strike tennis vs Rafa and take the ball as early as possible off both wings. Roger in the past was all too content to rally with Rafa and let himself get grinded down. That led to some of the ridiculous inexcusable losses off clay (Dubai, Wimbledon, Cincy, YEC).