What is art?

[mrzz]

way before the Wright Brother's did

I wanted to reply to this right when I saw it but by some odd reason I am just doing this now. It is beyond me why the Wright Brothers are considered the ones who invented the airplane, or even the ones who made the first flight.

Their inaugural flight is not openly documented. US army documents state that they did it -- and there is no evidence other than that. Those documents surfaced after a lot of other guys had documented flights. Brazilian Alberto Santos Dumont made the first documented (filmed) flight, actually taking off and landing by his own means (whilst the Wright brothers, in their alleged flight, were catapulted). Santos Dumont made a series of different planes, and was quite ahead his peers in terms of controlled flight in the early days of aviation -- he was also the first man to fly on a manouverable balloon (his flight around the Eiffel tower is famous to this day). But there were a lot of other people after the same goal, and aviation is surely a collective effort, with a lot of heroes (and the Wright brothers are among them). It is highly unfair that a lot of sources (mainly American ones) give credit to just a pair of men, with so little documentation, and even common sense, backing it up.

 

[Horsa]

I wanted to reply to this right when I saw it but by some odd reason I am just doing this now. It is beyond me why the Wright Brothers are considered the ones who invented the airplane, or even the ones who made the first flight.

Their inaugural flight is not openly documented. US army documents state that they did it -- and there is no evidence other than that. Those documents surfaced after a lot of other guys had documented flights. Brazilian Alberto Santos Dumont made the first documented (filmed) flight, actually taking off and landing by his own means (whilst the Wright brothers, in their alleged flight, were catapulted). Santos Dumont mande a series of different planes, and was quite ahead his peers in terms of controlled flight in the early days of aviation -- he was also the first man to flight on a manouverable balloon (his flight around the Eiffel tower is famous to this day). But there were a lot of other people after the same goal, and aviation is surely a collective effort, with a lot of heroes (and the Wright brothers are among them). It is highly unfair that a lot of sources (mainly American ones) give credit to just a pair of men, with so little documentation, and even common sense, backing it up.

It's nice to see you back, Mrzz. Long time no see. I know you've been busy though & hope you're well.

In history class this is what we got taught & a lot of books state that the Wright Brother's invented the aeroplane so I reckon that's why almost everyone thinks that the Wright Brothers invented the plane.

Thank you very much for the extra information. I didn't know that though I know a lot of people throughout history attempted to make flying machines before the 1st successful 1 was created. I agree with what you're saying that it's unfair that 2 men get credit for inventing the aeroplane when it wasn't initially their idea & they didn't build the 1st successful plane.

 

[Horsa]

I've been reading about Gericault in the age of the horse by Susanna Forest & realised I hadn't seen any of his works so had to look. I think he was very good. He loved horses like me. I've decided to share a link with information about him & a couple of his paintings. https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/artists/jean-louis-andre-theodore-gericault

 

[Horsa]

According to the information I'm reading on geophysics, ART is Algebraic Reconstruction Technique.

 

[Horsa]

Going to the opticians I realised that they've now got similar lenses to the ones I mentioned in that they resist a certain amount of steam & rain.

I've got an idea. Why can't someone design trains with self-service ticket machines next to the doors which take both cash & card payments, give change & when you scan a return ticket or buy a ticket releases the door to let you on but doesn't let you on unless you pay or scan your return ticket?

I've just finished making a hat & I'm in the process of knitting a scarf.

 

[Horsa]

I've just read that "although there have been many attempts to define art in the past none have been satisfactory though almost everyone has some idea of what it is" & that "the function of art is to bring pleasure to humans". I also read that "speech is the expression of thought in the same way that art is the expression of emotions". The last 2 quotes left me with a few questions.

1. If the function of art is to bring pleasure to humans, does art bring pleasure to all humans?
2. If not, why not?
3. Does all art bring pleasure to humans or is it just certain pieces of art?
4. What pieces of art bring pleasure to humans?
5. Do the pieces of art that bring pleasure to humans differ from person to person?
6. Why?
7. If speech is the expression of thought do all speeches express thoughts?
8. If not, why not?
9. Does all art express emotions?
10. Are there any cases where speech expresses emotions & art expresses thoughts?
11. Why?

 

[Horsa]

I went to an arts & crafts fair at the Hepworth gallery today. They were advertising for people to take Black-smithing courses, knitting, crocheting, weaving, pom-pom making & pottery courses. I like the jewellery & things made on Black-smithing courses but if I went on 1 I'd be more interested in the farrier's side of the Black-smithing course which is a 2 person job & I'd rather have the job of reassuring the horse & holding his foot while the Black-smith shoes him. I already know how to knit, weave & make pottery. I've tried crochet a few times but aren't good with my hands so it hasn't worked out. I might try pom-pom making. It would be useful as I've been making a few hats & woolly hats look better with pom-poms on.

 

[mrzz]

If the function of art is to bring pleasure to humans, does art bring pleasure to all humans?

What about art forms that don't bring pleasure, but some other kind of emotion? Some artists explicitly want to cause shock instead of pleasure (just to name one example) -- and a few surely accomplish it. Yes, some might get pleasure from shock, but others... is this art too?

 

[Horsa]

What about art forms that don't bring pleasure, but some other kind of emotion? Some artists explicitly want to cause shock instead of pleasure (just to name one example) -- and a few surely accomplish it. Yes, some might get pleasure from shock, but others... is this art too?

Good question. I didn't think about that when I read what I read & came up with the questions. Some people who've been through a lot go to art therapy & they create disturbing pictures that depict how they're feeling. Trench art can be disturbing but it's still art.

When I asked the questions I didn't think of the right phraseology for 1 of the questions. I read that art is the expression of emotions whereas speech is the expression of thoughts. Does that mean art cannot depict thought & speech cannot express emotions & vice versa?

 

[mrzz]

Does that mean art cannot depict thought & speech cannot express emotions & vice versa?

Good point. That is a fine way to stat and analysis of literature, by the way, as it is art done using (written) speech. This way the particular place literature has in art (and in human thought) becomes quite apparent.

 

[Horsa]

Good point. That is a fine way to stat and analysis of literature, by the way, as it is art done using (written) speech. This way the particular place literature has in art (and in human thought) becomes quite apparent.

Thank you very much. That's definitely true. We could also use drama & theatre arts as examples of both art & speech. I'm also including musical theatre & vocal music in theatre arts. They are in my book anyway. Speech is sometimes the expression of emotions & arts are depictions of thought & sometimes both speech & art are depictions of both emotions & thoughts.

 

[Horsa]

I went to an art gallery the other day. There was a wonderful sculpture made of plaster & painted blue which actually looked like a crystal (amethyst but in blue) how he'd done it, it was that good & so beautiful. There were also a couple of optical illusions. I don't like them. They send my eyes crazy & give me a headache afterwards especially since 1 of my eyes does much more work than the other. Most of the time I don't realise this. When I go to the opticians, when I watch a 3D film, when I see optical illusions & when I'm due for an eye test I do though.

 

[Horsa]

I was just made aware of the artists Eduardo Paolozzi & Elizabeth Fritsch today so decided to share. I like some of their works but they're not exactly among my favourite artists. What do you think of them?

https://www.tate.org.uk/art/artists/sir-eduardo-paolozzi-1738

https://www.saatchiart.com/elizabethfritsch

 

[Horsa]

I helped someone with a sculpture yesterday during a break from archiving. I'd catalogued a lot of local pottery & I'd never heard of the company. They were very good & left me a book about it to help me but I was a bit slow yesterday maybe because the week before I had an archive meeting where I had to read 1000 pages in the meeting & listen to what was being said & join in at the same time so my head decided to go slow. (It wasn't the best sculpture I'd ever seen but it's the 1st 1 I've ever helped to make. That would have to be a barbed wire sheepdog sculpture I've seen.) I've got pottery class on Tuesday. I love pottery. It's a good stress-reliever & so relaxing. I've also got to choose whether I want to learn quilting or go to art appreciation class as they're both on the same day at the same time. The 1st art appreciation class is about American art which I've never seen. I guess I should go to art appreciation class on art I don't already like. I've been told I need to learn quilting at some point.

(I know this is off-topic but I've also been advised to do a free online course on archiving as I've got to help give a presentation on archiving in 2 months time. The only free online archiving courses I've seen are rubbish. Does anyone know of any good, free online archiving courses please?")

 

[Chris Koziarz]

I helped someone with a sculpture yesterday during a break from archiving. I'd catalogued a lot of local pottery & I'd never heard of the company. They were very good & left me a book about it to help me but I was a bit slow yesterday maybe because the week before I had an archive meeting where I had to read 1000 pages in the meeting & listen to what was being said & join in at the same time so my head decided to go slow. (It wasn't the best sculpture I'd ever seen but it's the 1st 1 I've ever helped to make. That would have to be a barbed wire sheepdog sculpture I've seen.) I've got pottery class on Tuesday. I love pottery. It's a good stress-reliever & so relaxing. I've also got to choose whether I want to learn quilting or go to art appreciation class as they're both on the same day at the same time. The 1st art appreciation class is about American art which I've never seen. I guess I should go to art appreciation class on art I don't already like. I've been told I need to learn quilting at some point.

(I know this is off-topic but I've also been advised to do a free online course on archiving as I've got to help give a presentation on archiving in 2 months time. The only free online archiving courses I've seen are rubbish. Does anyone know of any good, free online archiving courses please?")

I found this one:
http://archivetools.weebly.com/course.html
But I'm not sure how useful it is. It appears to be just few paragraphs of text linked together. Quick search found an accredited online course with videos, quizes etc, by ASA costs $1500 for non-members:
https://www.archivists.org.au/learning-publications/online-courses (click on 6-course-pack)
But the basic prerequisites such as history, library science (rather than the above course), are perhaps more important to have. I don't know.

 

[Horsa]

I found this one:
http://archivetools.weebly.com/course.html
But I'm not sure how useful it is. It appears to be just few paragraphs of text linked together. Quick search found an accredited online course with videos, quizes etc, by ASA costs $1500 for non-members:
https://www.archivists.org.au/learning-publications/online-courses (click on 6-course-pack)
But the basic prerequisites such as history, library science (rather than the above course), are perhaps more important to have. I don't know.

Thank you very much. I'll carry on with that 1 which is what I found but doesn't appear to be very good & ask more questions from people who I'm working with while I'm working. I guess I just panicked & thought I can't do this though I've been told I can.

 

[Chris Koziarz]

Thank you very much. I'll carry on with that 1 which is what I found but doesn't appear to be very good & ask more questions from people who I'm working with while I'm working. I guess I just panicked & thought I can't do this though I've been told I can.

Good luck. We all "panic" at the early stages of new "mental" jobs that require decent amount of learning. In the end, the learning is not as hard as it appears at the start and colleagues are there to help...

 

[Horsa]

Good luck. We all "panic" at the early stages of new "mental" jobs that require decent amount of learning. In the end, the learning is not as hard as it appears at the start and colleagues are there to help...

Thank you very much.

I applied for the fund-raising & arts & crafts side of the job but when I said I'd worked in admin & libraries & answered her question "Why do you want this job?" she thought I could do archiving & put me on the archives team. I'm really enjoying it. Everyone's lovely & it's fascinating. I've been told very little just given lots to read, then thrown in the deep-end as well as told about this free online course. She found a very useful 1 apparently. I can't find it. Other than that I've been told to consult books, google & people who might know. She was very helpful the other day when I got stuck & I'm finding things much easier. (I'm not allowed to pull myself down or focus on my weaknesses therefore I'm not allowed to say I can't do it. I'm only allowed to focus on my strengths. I've only been told off 3 times. All of these were about my attitude towards myself.)

 

[mrzz]

I know this is off-topic

Maybe not that off-topic after all. Pottery is usually categorized as handicraft. But where is the frontier between handicraft and art? It is a fluid one for sure...

 

[Horsa]

Maybe not that off-topic after all. Pottery is usually categorized as handicraft. But where is the frontier between handicraft and art? It is a fluid one for sure...

I meant that archiving was off-topic because it's more history than art & agree that pottery is a craft & arts & crafts are very closely linked.