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Moxie

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could be optimism for sure. But I think it's one thing to take a punt on something new, but it's quite another when you've sampled the mediocre output, of the Trump administration, to go back again. If you're dissatisfied with Biden then you're open to another Trump term... until you see this guy just keeps on losing in court. If the primary motivation is negative partisanship then this has to help Biden at the margin..that's my thinking anyway...
It will be interesting to see if all of this sways those who are less-committed, which is the group that everyone needs to win over. Meantime, Trump is attacking RFK, Jr., as a perceived threat. Recent polling has many more Republicans "RFK-curious" than Democrats. If that holds, and RFK, Jr. stays in the race, for now it does look like a threat to Trump. And he's treating it as such.
 

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It will be interesting to see if all of this sways those who are less-committed, which is the group that everyone needs to win over. Meantime, Trump is attacking RFK, Jr., as a perceived threat. Recent polling has many more Republicans "RFK-curious" than Democrats. If that holds, and RFK, Jr. stays in the race, for now it does look like a threat to Trump. And he's treating it as such.

Dem's aren't the brightest in the world, but even Kennedy's family is backing Biden over their "boy!" Supporting freak 3rd party candidates has cost us elections several times over the last 2 decades! I'll never forgive Nader who just couldn't help himself in 2000 giving us "W!" Sanders fought to the end w/ Stein taking just enough away to subject us to a Trump admin. over one led by Hillary! I keep saying "the right" can't scrape the bottom of the sewer much more, but they find ways to get thru to another layer! I feel terrible for the future of the country as it's destined to go down in flames even if we have to do it to ourselves! Russia & China just need to wait us out as we play "Russian roulet" w/ those guns we have a right to pointed at our own heads! Sooner or later, the chambers will be loaded & that w/b that! Jan 6th was a close call, but some are looking for a repeat performance! Scairy! :angry-face: :face-with-head-bandage: :astonished-face: :fearful-face: :yawningface:
 
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Moxie

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Dem's aren't the brightest in the world, but even Kennedy's family is backing Biden over their "boy!" Supporting freak 3rd party candidates has cost us elections several times over the last 2 decades! I'll never forgive Nader who just couldn't help himself in 2000 giving us "W!" Sanders fought to the end w/ Stein taking just enough away to subject us to a Trump admin. over one led by Hillary! I keep saying "the right" can't scrape the bottom of the sewer much more, but they find ways to get thru to another layer! I feel terrible for the future of the country as it's destined to go down in flames even if we have to do it to ourselves! Russia & China just need to wait us out as we play "Russian roulet" w/ those guns we have a right to pointed at our own heads! Sooner or later, the chambers will be loaded & that w/b that! Jan 6th was a close call, but some are looking for a repeat performance! Scairy! :angry-face: :face-with-head-bandage: :astonished-face: :fearful-face: :yawningface:
I definitely blame Nader, to some extent, for Gore's loss. But I blame the electorate more. We will be a two-party system until we aren't. If they can't understand what's at stake, they're not living in the real world.
 

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I definitely blame Nader, to some extent, for Gore's loss. But I blame the electorate more. We will be a two-party system until we aren't. If they can't understand what's at stake, they're not living in the real world.

Half the country doesn't GAF; repercussions be damned! Electing Trump, then giving him subsequent support after becoming a felon proves it! :facepalm:
 

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Gotta love Murica. Biden signs off on a 95 billion dollar aid package for Israel, Ukraine and Taiwan and calls it a good day for world peace. What a joke of a man.
 

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it was a great day for world peace :) Russia cannot be allowed to overrun it's neighbours, that's the path the WW3. Anyone thinking that the likes of Poland, the Baltics and Romania won't be next are in delulu land. And China also needs to be deterred. The lessons of appeasing aggressors was learned in blood in WW2.

And by the way it wasn't just America announcing new aid. Many European countries did or have already as well. They know which side their bread is buttered
 

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it was a great day for world peace :) Russia cannot be allowed to overrun it's neighbours, that's the path the WW3. Anyone thinking that the likes of Poland, the Baltics and Romania won't be next are in delulu land. And China also needs to be deterred. The lessons of appeasing aggressors was learned in blood in WW2.

And by the way it wasn't just America announcing new aid. Many European countries did or have already as well. They know which side their bread is buttered
Sorry man but it's the opposite of what you're thinking. There's ZERO chance of Putin EVER attacking a NATO country and anyone saying Russia will attack any NATO country unless provoked is delusional. He's been provoked A LOT by the stupidity of the west but he's not going to end humanity. He's a very intelligent guy unlike Biden. To date, the only country to ever use nukes is the US. People getting killed isn't peace and this wasn't just about Ukraine and that pointless proxy "war". Israel are a scum nation and good old uncle Sam is arming them to the teeth to kill thousands of mostly women and children in Gaza. The irony of becoming the nazi scum that you hated. Netanyahu and his IDF "defense forces" of butchering nazi scum, the Azov and countless other nazi battalions in Ukraine and Klaus Schwab and his nazi scum in the WEF who want to control every aspect of our lives. The nazis are back in large numbers right now on this fucked up planet and they have the backing of Biden.

This is also hilariously embarrassing for the US and EU with their sanctioning, the sad, corrupt double standard clowns. They wouldn't dare sanction Israel, just arm them to the teeth to keep on killing. Yeah, a great day for peace alright. No idea how people can come to that conclusion.

 
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I won't deny that I'm impressed with the effectiveness of Russian propaganda. That's one area in the battle space that they've been extremely effective!
 
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Federberg

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gotta admit... the campus protests... this is bad bad bad for Biden. These universities need to get control of all of this. I hope Democrats take note. The illiberalism they've allowed to infiltrate progressive thinking has led to this. These protesters are largely ignorant of the history and seem unwilling to debate and learn. The same entitlement that led to blackballing conservative speakers has reached the inevitable endgame. The students that are denying students access should be expelled with prejudice. What the fk are they waiting for?
 

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gotta admit... the campus protests... this is bad bad bad for Biden. These universities need to get control of all of this. I hope Democrats take note. The illiberalism they've allowed to infiltrate progressive thinking has led to this. These protesters are largely ignorant of the history and seem unwilling to debate and learn. The same entitlement that led to blackballing conservative speakers has reached the inevitable endgame. The students that are denying students access should be expelled with prejudice. What the fk are they waiting for?

So typical of all people; "self sabotage!" Unfortunately I go back 1968 Democratic Convention being held in Chgo! It's like Deja Vu where we'll probably have to deal w/ these a-#oles and allow Trump another term! It'll be the end of our democracy, but it appears that's what Republicans & conservatives want; maybe take us back to "Slavery," women unable to vote, & like Spartans, throw the imperfect babies off a cliff! Why not? Anti-Abortionist only care about the birth! After that they don't GAF! They prove it every time they try to cut feeding programs for them like SNAP! We never seem to learn & repeat these cycles again & again!:face-with-head-bandage::astonished-face::angry-face: :fearful-face: :yawningface:
 
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Moxie

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gotta admit... the campus protests... this is bad bad bad for Biden. These universities need to get control of all of this. I hope Democrats take note. The illiberalism they've allowed to infiltrate progressive thinking has led to this. These protesters are largely ignorant of the history and seem unwilling to debate and learn. The same entitlement that led to blackballing conservative speakers has reached the inevitable endgame. The students that are denying students access should be expelled with prejudice. What the fk are they waiting for?
What is bad for Biden is the whole Israel/Palestine thing. Campus protests are not his only problems on this issue. I don't agree with you as to the root of campus protest. "Illiberalism." No. Young people will take on causes, even if they're being stupid and unsubtle about them. Biden can't pander to that, but he has to understand what it's about, and hear it. But he has nothing to do with how universities run themselves.

I have tried to stay away from this 3rd raid which is Middle East politics. Biden's problem is that he can't. Israel got attacked, and there was a certain understanding for the need to strike back. But that was months ago. Now they're just killing women and children, and starving people to death. It has to stop. And Biden has to understand that the old school position of standing with Israel is no longer the model for the US. I don't know how he threads this needle, but he's the guy in the hot seat.
 

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What is bad for Biden is the whole Israel/Palestine thing. Campus protests are not his only problems on this issue. I don't agree with you as to the root of campus protest. "Illiberalism." No. Young people will take on causes, even if they're being stupid and unsubtle about them. Biden can't pander to that, but he has to understand what it's about, and hear it. But he has nothing to do with how universities run themselves.

I have tried to stay away from this 3rd raid which is Middle East politics. Biden's problem is that he can't. Israel got attacked, and there was a certain understanding for the need to strike back. But that was months ago. Now they're just killing women and children, and starving people to death. It has to stop. And Biden has to understand that the old school position of standing with Israel is no longer the model for the US. I don't know how he threads this needle, but he's the guy in the hot seat.
well I certainly agree that Israeli policy has to change. There HAS to be a two state solution, and the Arabs have to be part of it, police it. I agree that what's happening on campus's is not Biden's fault. But that's not how politics works. It will be perceived by most that the Democratic Party is stained by this, even if they're not directly responsible for it. In effect it sets up a nasty pincer movement that Biden has to contend with. He'll be blamed by those on his far left for Israel's attack on the Gaza and he'll be blamed from the right for the anti-semitism being openly displayed on the left. Trust me on this, I've seen this happen in the UK. But that leads me to university administrators and the permissiveness they've had in allowing the tail to wag the dog. If Trump was President right now, there can be no doubt that he would have the police more aggressively involved if it is within his power. While I don't believe that's something that Biden should or can do, it sadly redounds to him. My point, like it or not, is that the average Joe Blow.. is going to observe this, the protests, the fact that this is clearly from the left, and it's bad bad bad for Biden. I can't see how anyone can dispute the fact that this permissiveness on the left for the type of dissent that has pretty much cancelled dialectic on campus is something Democrats could have handled but now it's completely out of hand. It was fine when Speaker guests on the right were being forced to retreat from campus speeches, only Republicans voiced concerns. Now it's coming back with a nasty bite. As @Fiero425 pointed out, this has parallels with the late 60s, and that worked well for Nixon. I'm not saying this will have more power than the abortion issue, but it's a PROBLEM.

It just goes to show, that if something is wrong but hurts the other side, don't be quiet. Do what's right at ALL times, it will help you in the long term
 

Moxie

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well I certainly agree that Israeli policy has to change. There HAS to be a two state solution, and the Arabs have to be part of it, police it. I agree that what's happening on campus's is not Biden's fault. But that's not how politics works. It will be perceived by most that the Democratic Party is stained by this, even if they're not directly responsible for it. In effect it sets up a nasty pincer movement that Biden has to contend with. He'll be blamed by those on his far left for Israel's attack on the Gaza and he'll be blamed from the right for the anti-semitism being openly displayed on the left. Trust me on this, I've seen this happen in the UK. But that leads me to university administrators and the permissiveness they've had in allowing the tail to wag the dog. If Trump was President right now, there can be no doubt that he would have the police more aggressively involved if it is within his power. While I don't believe that's something that Biden should or can do, it sadly redounds to him. My point, like it or not, is that the average Joe Blow.. is going to observe this, the protests, the fact that this is clearly from the left, and it's bad bad bad for Biden. I can't see how anyone can dispute the fact that this permissiveness on the left for the type of dissent that has pretty much cancelled dialectic on campus is something Democrats could have handled but now it's completely out of hand. It was fine when Speaker guests on the right were being forced to retreat from campus speeches, only Republicans voiced concerns. Now it's coming back with a nasty bite. As @Fiero425 pointed out, this has parallels with the late 60s, and that worked well for Nixon. I'm not saying this will have more power than the abortion issue, but it's a PROBLEM.

It just goes to show, that if something is wrong but hurts the other side, don't be quiet. Do what's right at ALL times, it will help you in the long term
I agree with some of this, not all. And I'm not being contentious here, but I'll make a point about the difference between campus unrest now, and in 1968. A lot of people are making the comparison. 1967-68 were a LOT about the Vietnam war and the escalation of it. Johnson's unpopularity had a lot to do with the war, which we were directly involved in, and was showing on our TVs every day. On top of that, students weren't just showing off their lefty bona fides....there was a draft, and all the young men were under threat to go to war, even with the minimal protection of college. Yes, there was a lot of upheaval...much more than now, I'd say. Two things that happened, to add to the chaos of 1968 were the assassinations of MLK (and the riots that followed) and RFK. Remember that RFK was running for President. Nixon got in, in part because every viable Democrat kept dropping out...or, well, getting assassinated. Yes, there was an age gap and a culture gap, and conservative and older people were looking for some law-and-order.

Which I think is what you're talking about now, at least in part. I've seen it: older folks and conservatives are offended by some of the tactics going on in campus protests. It's seen as "Anti-American." But here's the deal: it's pretty much a side-bar issue. We're not in that war. Biden's lack of popularity has nothing to do with Israel/Palestine, basically. He was already polling poorly. I'm not sure why you say that he'll be blamed for Israel's attack on Gaza, or the subsequent anti-Semitism we're seeing. OK, sure...Presidents get blamed for everything under their watch, but that's very broad strokes.

You do have to understand that Americans care very little for conflicts we're not directly involved in. We are basically insular, and domestic issues are what will decide this election. It's going to be the economy, it's going to be abortion. How women and young people vote will matter a lot, IMO.

Today the Florida 6-week limit on abortions comes into law. This affects not just Floridians, but women and families across the South, where neighboring states, with even more restrictive bans, or total bans, relied on Florida as a place for abortion care. This is something that will matter to people.
 
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I agree with some of this, not all. And I'm not being contentious here, but I'll make a point about the difference between campus unrest now, and in 1968. A lot of people are making the comparison. 1967-68 were a LOT about the Vietnam war and the escalation of it. Johnson's unpopularity had a lot to do with the war, which we were directly involved in, and was showing on our TVs every day. On top of that, students weren't just showing off their lefty bona fides....there was a draft, and all the young men were under threat to go to war, even with the minimal protection of college. Yes, there was a lot of upheaval...much more than now, I'd say. Two things that happened, to add to the chaos of 1968 were the assassinations of MLK (and the riots that followed) and RFK. Remember that RFK was running for President. Nixon got in, in part because every viable Democrat kept dropping out...or, well, getting assassinated. Yes, there was an age gap and a culture gap, and conservative and older people were looking for some law-and-order.

Which I think is what you're talking about now, at least in part. I've seen it: older folks and conservatives are offended by some of the tactics going on in campus protests. It's seen as "Anti-American." But here's the deal: it's pretty much a side-bar issue. We're not in that war. Biden's lack of popularity has nothing to do with Israel/Palestine, basically. He was already polling poorly. I'm not sure why you say that he'll be blamed for Israel's attack on Gaza, or the subsequent anti-Semitism we're seeing. OK, sure...Presidents get blamed for everything under their watch, but that's very broad strokes.

You do have to understand that Americans care very little for conflicts we're not directly involved in. We are basically insular, and domestic issues are what will decide this election. It's going to be the economy, it's going to be abortion. How women and young people vote will matter a lot, IMO.

Today the Florida 6-week limit on abortions comes into law. This affects not just Floridians, but women and families across the South, where neighboring states, with even more restrictive bans, or total bans, relied on Florida as a place for abortion care. This is something that will matter to people.
I think part of the disconnect we're having is that I'm naturally more conservative than you, and there are a couple of things I take for granted.. (1) there's something fundamentally broken in the West (2) as much of a practiced politician Trump is, he's not a part of the establishment..

I might be wrong, but I think you underestimate how dissatisfied those more conservative than you are with the state of the world. This manifests itself in terms of cultural issues (no need for us to go there), economic issues (inflation), geopolitical issues (the wars and China). In comparison to many conservatives I'm considerably more... centred.. than others. You only have to look at some of the conversations @britbox and I have (the erosion of our freedoms, the tyranny of the State). I spent a weekend at my sister's a few weeks ago... and I was disheartened when she told me that on reflection.. she's more inclined towards hoping that Trump wins than Biden. Her view is that on balance Biden might be the greater evil. I can't tell you how common that view is. I hate it! Hate it hate it hate it! And I spent a lot of time trying to argue to her that the immediate threat is whether democracy itself continues to exist. But there are so so many people who've seen enough, and are fed up. They don't think Trump is good, but they are so dissatisfied with the direction of things, it distracts them from Trump. When I express my fears about Trump, please understand it in the context that I recognise the utter disgust half the voting population has at the moment. It is my humble opinion that either you're not aware of this or you dismiss it. This is understandable if you're not exposed to a more conservative perspective.

The point is that Biden is the avatar of the establishment, and to a lot of people he will be associated with the chaos of these campus protests. I'm not saying it's right. I'm frustrated by it, but I recognise where the blame will go. It doesn't matter that the US isn't directly involved. US dollars are being spent on this, and not on things that have a more direct benefit to US citizens. Or for some of us more fiscally conservative people it's money that doesn't exist that shouldn't be spent.

I hope the abortion issue, the democratic threat, the relative outperformance of the US economy, the relatively drama free Biden Administration will enable Biden to win as an incumbent. That's what history tells us should happen. But I know, I see, I recognise that there is a terrible terrible dissatisfaction that for some reason those on the Democratic side seem largely oblivious to. These things might seem like a 'side-bar'... but I promise you... if Trump wasn't the psycho he is, there's a pent up backlash that's bubbling... we want our world back, our freedom's. We don't want the State to tell us how to live...
 
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Fiero425

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I think part of the disconnect we're having is that I'm naturally more conservative than you, and there are a couple of things I take for granted.. (1) there's something fundamentally broken in the West (2) as much of a practiced politician Trump is, he's not a part of the establishment..

I might be wrong, but I think you underestimate how dissatisfied those more conservative than you are with the state of the world. This manifests itself in terms of cultural issues (no need for us to go there), economic issues (inflation), geopolitical issues (the wars and China). In comparison to many conservatives I'm considerably more... centred.. than others. You only have to look at some of the conversations @britbox and I have (the erosion of our freedoms, the tyranny of the State). I spent a weekend at my sister's a few weeks ago... and I was disheartened when she told me that on reflection.. she's more inclined towards hoping that Trump wins than Biden. Her view is that on balance Biden might be the greater evil. I can't tell you how common that view is. I hate it! Hate it hate it hate it! And I spent a lot of time trying to argue to her that the immediate threat is whether democracy itself continues to exist. But there are so so many people who've seen enough, and are fed up. They don't think Trump is good, but they are so dissatisfied with the direction of things, it distracts them from Trump. When I express my fears about Trump, please understand it in the context that I recognize the utter disgust half the voting population has at the moment. It is my humble opinion that either you're not aware of this or you dismiss it. This is understandable if you're not exposed to a more conservative perspective.

The point is that Biden is the avatar of the establishment, and to a lot of people he will be associated with the chaos of these campus protests. I'm not saying it's right. I'm frustrated by it, but I recognize where the blame will go. It doesn't matter that the US isn't directly involved. US dollars are being spent on this, and not on things that have a more direct benefit to US citizens. Or for some of us more fiscally conservative people it's money that doesn't exist that shouldn't be spent.

I hope the abortion issue, the democratic threat, the relative outperformance of the US economy, the relatively drama free Biden Administration will enable Biden to win as an incumbent. That's what history tells us should happen. But I know, I see, I recognize that there is a terrible terrible dissatisfaction that for some reason those on the Democratic side seem largely oblivious to. These things might seem like a 'side-bar'... but I promise you... if Trump wasn't the psycho he is, there's a pent up backlash that's bubbling... we want our world back, our freedom's. We don't want the State to tell us how to live...

It's a shame we're in such straights after the heights of prosperity in the 90's, recovery from "W" in the 2010's w/ addition of Nat'l Healthcare! Conservatives have proved over the decades that if you just keep hammering away w/ negativity, support for the "good times" begin to wane! Clinton not only doubled the economy/the Stock Market, there was a budget SURPLUS when he left office! It was given away with plenty of tax cuts for the wealthy & the economy spiralled again! The "right" went into overdrive making an issue of a stained dress! I was so done w/ Republicans who appear to not have a LICK of SHAME! They have no conscience as you see the support for Trump growing in the hierachy of the Republican Party! I actually thought after surviving the "reign of terror" ending in 2021, they'd become a fringe party, but we're ready to tempt FATE again w/ this buffoon! No one cares millions of jobs were created under Biden, w/ little inflation, & an exaggerated sense of a recession! Things are functioning well w/ us in relative peace! Heaven help THE WORLD if we let this slip and allow another Trump Admin.! No place will be safe! :angry-face: :face-with-head-bandage: :astonished-face: :face-with-symbols-on-mouth:
 
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Moxie

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I think part of the disconnect we're having is that I'm naturally more conservative than you,
I don't think we're especially having a "disconnect," but I do understand that you're more generally conservative than I am.
and there are a couple of things I take for granted.. (1) there's something fundamentally broken in the West
That's a big statement, and maybe we could explore that further.
(2) as much of a practiced politician Trump is, he's not a part of the establishment..
I disagree that Trump is a politician, or at least not a practiced one. Politics is actually a real vocation, and many come to it with actual backgrounds in things that serve them in understanding history, law, and also a background of public service. Trump comes at it as a huckster, which is only the cynic's idea of what makes a politician. IMO. Yes, I understand the appeal of the Beltway outsider. This is not new. It's how we got Carter as a reaction against Nixon.
I might be wrong, but I think you underestimate how dissatisfied those more conservative than you are with the state of the world. This manifests itself in terms of cultural issues (no need for us to go there), economic issues (inflation), geopolitical issues (the wars and China). In comparison to many conservatives I'm considerably more... centred.. than others. You only have to look at some of the conversations @britbox and I have (the erosion of our freedoms, the tyranny of the State). I spent a weekend at my sister's a few weeks ago... and I was disheartened when she told me that on reflection.. she's more inclined towards hoping that Trump wins than Biden. Her view is that on balance Biden might be the greater evil. I can't tell you how common that view is. I hate it! Hate it hate it hate it! And I spent a lot of time trying to argue to her that the immediate threat is whether democracy itself continues to exist. But there are so so many people who've seen enough, and are fed up. They don't think Trump is good, but they are so dissatisfied with the direction of things, it distracts them from Trump. When I express my fears about Trump, please understand it in the context that I recognise the utter disgust half the voting population has at the moment. It is my humble opinion that either you're not aware of this or you dismiss it. This is understandable if you're not exposed to a more conservative perspective.
Yes, you might be wrong that I "underestimate how dissatisfied those more conservative than (I am) with the state of the world." You say I am unaware, or I dismiss it. You do rather say that a lot, no matter how much I try to tell you that I have lots of friends of all political stripes all around the US. And, while your sister's opinion is interesting, she won't be voting in the US elections, correct? Nor will you.
The point is that Biden is the avatar of the establishment, and to a lot of people he will be associated with the chaos of these campus protests. I'm not saying it's right. I'm frustrated by it, but I recognise where the blame will go. It doesn't matter that the US isn't directly involved. US dollars are being spent on this, and not on things that have a more direct benefit to US citizens. Or for some of us more fiscally conservative people it's money that doesn't exist that shouldn't be spent.
It DOES matter that the US isn't directly involved, which is why I brought up Vietnam. You completely gloss over my point that Americans don't much pay attention to foreign policy. I've lived in the US most of my life, (with the exception of about 5 years in mostly Europe,) and I do kind of object when you ignore what I say about what Americans tend to vote on.
I hope the abortion issue, the democratic threat, the relative outperformance of the US economy, the relatively drama free Biden Administration will enable Biden to win as an incumbent. That's what history tells us should happen.
We agree on this.
But I know, I see, I recognise that there is a terrible terrible dissatisfaction that for some reason those on the Democratic side seem largely oblivious to. These things might seem like a 'side-bar'... but I promise you... if Trump wasn't the psycho he is, there's a pent up backlash that's bubbling... we want our world back, our freedom's. We don't want the State to tell us how to live...
Here I will address what you said above about what the likes of Britbox are concerned about, and the "tyranny of the state." Or, if we're being honest, the "rise of the tyrants," which they don't seem to be as concerned about. When you say, "We want our world back, our freedoms. We don't want the State to tell us how to live," I'm unclear about this. We're talking about US politics here, but who is restricting your right to abortion? Who is banning books? Who is re-creating how the Civil War should be taught in the US so that white children, tender little snowflakes, shouldn't feel bad about themselves? That's not the Democrats. And who is offering more freedoms, like gay marriage? Fighting for voting rights? Fighting for equal healthcare for women? Trying to make an equalization as to who pays taxes, and therefore into the general good?

I understand the culture wars things have people very agitated, but this is not new. But on top of that, tell me how the tyranny of the state is coming down from the left, and I mean in the US? Also, when polled, a surprising number of Americans prefer what we would call a dictatorship. So don't tell me they want their freedoms. Don't tell me they don't want the State to tell them how to live. They just want it to conform to what makes them comfortable. A lot of people in this country would be happy for it to be a Christian Nation, with the laws of the land to reflect that. Freedom of Religion be damned.
 
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I disagree that Trump is a politician, or at least not a practiced one. Politics is actually a real vocation, and many come to it with actual backgrounds in things that serve them in understanding history, law, and also a background of public service. Trump comes at it as a huckster, which is only the cynic's idea of what makes a politician. IMO. Yes, I understand the appeal of the Beltway outsider. This is not new. It's how we got Carter as a reaction against Nixon.
he is a politician. He's just not the type of politician you recognise. And he is certainly not about governing. But please never make the mistake of thinking it's not politics. His kind has existed since the beginning of time. It's only that those types are generally not wanted by the electorate. They require a fertile situation to gain power. A time of dissatisfaction, a time when things are broken

Yes, you might be wrong that I "underestimate how dissatisfied those more conservative than (I am) with the state of the world." You say I am unaware, or I dismiss it. You do rather say that a lot, no matter how much I try to tell you that I have lots of friends of all political stripes all around the US. And, while your sister's opinion is interesting, she won't be voting in the US elections, correct? Nor will you.
no we won't, but we both know a hell of a lot of folks who will. It's roughly 60-40 against Trump in terms of view point. Even then I hold myself apart. It's no secret that there are many things Trump says that I'm not opposed to. But for me it's important that democratic institutions survive

It DOES matter that the US isn't directly involved, which is why I brought up Vietnam. You completely gloss over my point that Americans don't much pay attention to foreign policy. I've lived in the US most of my life, (with the exception of about 5 years in mostly Europe,) and I do kind of object when you ignore what I say about what Americans tend to vote on.
that can't be helped and one of the sources of the disconnect. Sadly the world is less different than you might think. Whether it's social media, communication, whatever it is.... we're all less different than we think we are in this era. Didn't we all learn this lesson after Trump followed the Brexit vote? I personally believe that the fact that the US is not putting boots on the ground matters. Heck the distribution of arms to the Ukraine is enabling the US military to get rid of old generation weaponry for good purpose while funding the production of more up to date weaponry. Add to that the economic benefits for the States that are involved in arms production. But sadly you talk to anyone opposed to these wars on either side of the pond and they are convinced that it's a proxy war and even if our own soldiers aren't involved we're still fighting the war. They believe it's one rule for the West (imperialists, colonialists) and another rule for others. Facts mean less than perceptions in politics, so excuse me for disagreeing with you

Here I will address what you said above about what the likes of Britbox are concerned about, and the "tyranny of the state." Or, if we're being honest, the "rise of the tyrants," which they don't seem to be as concerned about. When you say, "We want our world back, our freedoms. We don't want the State to tell us how to live," I'm unclear about this. We're talking about US politics here, but who is restricting your right to abortion? Who is banning books? Who is re-creating how the Civil War should be taught in the US so that white children, tender little snowflakes, shouldn't feel bad about themselves? That's not the Democrats. And who is offering more freedoms, like gay marriage? Fighting for voting rights? Fighting for equal healthcare for women? Trying to make an equalization as to who pays taxes, and therefore into the general good?

I understand the culture wars things have people very agitated, but this is not new. But on top of that, tell me how the tyranny of the state is coming down from the left, and I mean in the US? Also, when polled, a surprising number of Americans prefer what we would call a dictatorship. So don't tell me they want their freedoms. Don't tell me they don't want the State to tell them how to live. They just want it to conform to what makes them comfortable. A lot of people in this country would be happy for it to be a Christian Nation, with the laws of the land to reflect that. Freedom of Religion be damned.
they don't want dictatorship. They want someone to cut through the bullshit and protect their values. I completely disagree with them for the simple reason that the next dictator might require us to all cut off our dicks and become women :) @britbox is not wrong about social credit systems, surveillance, the threat of digital currencies. It's happening. These are all threats to our freedoms. We want laws that protect our property and our freedoms, not laws that permit the government to tell us what is good and what is bad. That enables the state to punish us. We see you Canada. As I've repeatedly said there are threats to freedom from both sides. The right is learning the lesson about curtailing women's bodily autonomy. In the UK, perhaps the left is being forced to retreat on transgender issues with the Cass report, but it's still not going to stop the Conservative government getting smashed in the next election. I'm no more a fan of book burning than I am a fan of children's books telling kids how to have gay sex, or heterosexual sex for that matter! I think I'm part of the silent majority on that. But common sense tells me that as long as there are sexualised books that try to disintermediate parental responsibility people will try to burn books. I hope your outrage about book burning is also complemented by outrage for books that are being changed to fit our times. I'm as outraged at people trying to teach bad history to white kids as I'm outraged by teachers trying to tell those same white kids that they're bad because they benefited from slavery. It's complex and could easily be resolved by common sense. I hope we still all have that. I'm not going to side with one side and accept the bad things they want to do. I don't understand that type of politics. If one side is right on an issue they'll have my support. If the other side is right on an issue, they will have my support. I just wish others weren't so tribal and are unwilling to see the stupidity on their side. That to me is just as dangerous
 
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Moxie

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This is an interesting poll I ran across the other day. It covers a lot of ground.

 

Moxie

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he is a politician. He's just not the type of politician you recognise. And he is certainly not about governing. But please never make the mistake of thinking it's not politics. His kind has existed since the beginning of time. It's only that those types are generally not wanted by the electorate. They require a fertile situation to gain power. A time of dissatisfaction, a time when things are broken.
I still don't think he's much of a politician, even though now he has 4 years of the presidency under his belt. I don't know what you mean that "his kind has existed since the beginning of time." I looked up US Presidents with no political experience. Zachary Taylor, Ulysses S. Grant, and Dwight Eisenhower were all generals who led forces to victory in their respective wars. This is also public service. Herbert Hoover was a contributor to the Treaty of Versailles, which led to him being appointed as Sec. of Commerce. Only Trump had no government service nor military service before becoming President.
they don't want dictatorship. They want someone to cut through the bullshit and protect their values. I completely disagree with them for the simple reason that the next dictator might require us to all cut off our dicks and become women :)
I'm not sure who your "they" is, but I guess we're talking about Trump supporters? Do they even know what their values are, anymore, if they back him, and they really believe in the Constitution, and protecting it? Because Trump doesn't. I've read enough to vaguely understand why Evangelicals can find their savior in this deeply unsaintly man. (It's bizarre, and counter-intuitive, but you have to go with it, if you're to understand it, at all.) But then there are the rest, and I have a harder time understanding how they reconcile their "values" with his lack of them. Their performative patriotism, with Jan. 6th. Just because Trump dry-humps the flag? (Which I mean literally and figuratively.)
@britbox is not wrong about social credit systems, surveillance, the threat of digital currencies. It's happening. These are all threats to our freedoms. We want laws that protect our property and our freedoms, not laws that permit the government to tell us what is good and what is bad. That enables the state to punish us. We see you Canada. As I've repeatedly said there are threats to freedom from both sides. The right is learning the lesson about curtailing women's bodily autonomy. In the UK, perhaps the left is being forced to retreat on transgender issues with the Cass report, but it's still not going to stop the Conservative government getting smashed in the next election. I'm no more a fan of book burning than I am a fan of children's books telling kids how to have gay sex, or heterosexual sex for that matter! I think I'm part of the silent majority on that. But common sense tells me that as long as there are sexualised books that try to disintermediate parental responsibility people will try to burn books. I hope your outrage about book burning is also complemented by outrage for books that are being changed to fit our times. I'm as outraged at people trying to teach bad history to white kids as I'm outraged by teachers trying to tell those same white kids that they're bad because they benefited from slavery. It's complex and could easily be resolved by common sense. I hope we still all have that. I'm not going to side with one side and accept the bad things they want to do. I don't understand that type of politics. If one side is right on an issue they'll have my support. If the other side is right on an issue, they will have my support. I just wish others weren't so tribal and are unwilling to see the stupidity on their side. That to me is just as dangerous
Please cite for me a book that teaches children how to have gay sex. Actually, there is sex education in schools. Can you possibly object to that? Certainly, it matters when they start. Just prior to the onset of puberty would be my choice, and was when they did it in my school. But books like "Heather has Two Mommies" are good for younger kids. They have questions and confusions, and they do better when they have help understanding things. Gay marriage is legal in the US. Kids might want to understand why some kids have same-sex parents. It doesn't pollute their minds, it answers questions.

Sure, I have a problem with re-writing books that are works of literature to fit more anxious times. They can be taught. Why not? Don't rewrite them. Give them context, if they need it. That's part of what history and literature teachers do. But I'm also curious to know who you think is teaching white kids to feel bad about themselves because slavery ever existed in the US, or that they benefitted from it. I've heard studies that kids accept the history of slavery in the US for what it is, and don't feel complicit. They benefit from the full picture. You say you don't want books to be rewritten, but I'm sure you don't want history short-changed or rewritten, either.
 
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