Russians aren't that healthy teddy. There is a huge alcohol problem. The average life expectancy for Males is only 64 and 25% die before they are 55.
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Russians aren't that healthy teddy. There is a huge alcohol problem. The average life expectancy for Males is only 64 and 25% die before they are 55.
ph yeah ?
you're OBVIOUSLY stil trappeed in that old ''western'' meme about ''collapsing russia.
lol.
i have JUST BEEN THERE. and u know what russians drink?
they drink a LOT of vegetable juices...for ''spirits" they're into WINE with GOOD healthy food --i've been at it with them - day in day out -- as they progressively get into REALLY healthy habits.
it's the same as the western meme about russian ''population collapsing"
WRONG -- day after day -- i saw nothing but weddings galore -- they're ARE making babies! lol.
it's AMAZING how TRAPPED you guys -- of the west , particularly YOUR angl0-american self-delusions that you believe your own propaganda about russians...
it's just AMAZING!
because you have NO idea just how healthy and FIT russians really are . i was myself so shocked observing them and getting to know them -- REAL up close.
i've never seen a population of such concentration with such HALE conditions.
what is going to be interesting is how the HILLARY WAR CRIMINAL and her fellow criminals -- (heck -- anyone that DOESN/T tnink albright ''it was woth a million iraqi lives to get one man" is a war crriminal has something wrong , seriously wrong in his , her head) --
and SPONSORS and weaponizers of global terrorism --
DO NOW that trump keeps ''trumping" them and their lying and obfuscations and distractions away from the fact that THEY ARE LIARS, AND WAR CRIMINAL bunches of thieves. lo.l.
CLINTON works VERY, very hard at rigging the elections ion her favor..and the '';laws" of the usa in her favor..
i mean -- FBI letting her go UNINDICTED for what according to YOUR own government and laws are TREASONOUS BEHAVIORS?
literally making deicisons on libya -- nevermind that it destroyed a sovereign country that was planning to move to GOLD standard and gold backed currency THREATENING your FAKE dollar money --
but leading to the DEATH of YOUR own diplomat in benghazi BECAUSE of clinton's IRRESPONSIBILITY ? THAT'S treason according to YOUR own constitution - and she should have been locked up LONG AGO...
not to mention her ''CLINTON FOUNDATION"sleazing its way through YOUR own ''laws" against politically connected ''foreign contributions" ?
not to mention her irresponsible - CAVALIER attitude about the security of STATE SECRETARY CLINTON communications that should have locked her up many times over?
i mean -- FBI letting her go UNINDICTED for what according to YOUR own government and laws are TREASONOUS BEHAVIORS?
literally making deicisons on libya -- nevermind that it destroyed a sovereign country that was planning to move to GOLD standard and gold backed currency THREATENING your FAKE dollar money --
but leading to the DEATH of YOUR own diplomat in benghazi BECAUSE of clinton's IRRESPONSIBILITY ? THAT'S treason according to YOUR own constitution - and she should have been locked up LONG AGO...
not to mention her ''CLINTON FOUNDATION"sleazing its way through YOUR own ''laws" against politically connected ''foreign contributions" ?
not to mention her irresponsible - CAVALIER attitude about the security of STATE SECRETARY CLINTON communications that should have locked her up many times over?
Golikova, the former health minister said the Russians were the world leader in alcohol consumption and Medvedev, the prime minister and former president called the alcohol issue in Russia a national disaster. I'll take your word for it that they were spreading Anglo propaganda.
that may be true that they ''lead in alcohol consumption" it does NOT mean it translates into the OLD notions of the russian society's being an UNHEALTHY POPULATIon OR ONE that continues to be.
there is such a thing as the generations. itis MORE likely than not that the ''leaders in alcohol consumption" of the ''vodka'' type often understood are the vestiges of the very ruinous times of the 1990's themselves - which russians DO NOT DENY - and actually confront - and THAT'S the whole point.
as of now -- as PART of their national priority of dealing with that ''problem" - the state and society itself -- and i HAVE seen in - are well on the way towards taking charge of what they know has to be dealt with - in the same way as they deal with the security of their country , from terrorism (of which they have plenty of experience from extremists ) as well as NATO encroachment on THEIR borders while calling THEM ''aggressive and expansionist"..
and don't try to be sarcastic here about reference to ''angl0-american propaganda" because the WHOLE WORLD knows that...
lol. what passes for your so-called 'news" is NOW exposed to be anything BUT...NO LESS than the accusations about ''soviet propaganda" excpet the west succeeded in making believe that it actually promotes ''journalism" . lol.
for one thing -- going back to ''spirits" consumption -- i can vouch personally
that in social occasions while in st petersburg just recently -- i NEVER once saw russians drinking their ''traditional vodka" - it was often beer , cognac, or wine...and i asked them why the seeming change...
they invariably answered -- ''it;s more affordable for us...we can drink hard if we want -- but that's not really the point..but we also want to develop these other industries -- growing WINE especially and make the best kinds that will compete with any in the world -- we have all the land and we are going to develop our agriculture industries, including wine making ".
does THAT sound like some country in the 'doldrums?"
lol.
but truly the most stunning for me to see - in their daily lives -- (russians walk and bike a LOT -- everywhere -- and when they walk they walk FAST -- i couldn't keep up with many of them that i got acquainted with and i am VERY fit myself) - was how healthy and fit and athletic they were..i NEVER saw in my 2 weeks a SINGLE ''UNDER 50 " CARRYING extra ''weight baggage"
they were either toned, or highly athletic or ''defined or ripped" in a very natural way. that was a huge surprise for me. and i've never seen people who worked SO FAST and moved in their work so quickly.
YET -- when HARD rain and wind comes -- soaking everyone on the streets...whether those wearing expensive business suits or chic women's clothes or ordinary attire -- NO ONE would run FROM rain..they'd go about their business, sitting in the park benches , standing or walking carrying on their conversations -- with or without umbrella as if nothing was the matter at all.
IF NATO EVER makes the mistake of finding ''excuses" to provoke russia intoa shooting match over ''the baltics against russian aggression" -- with the OBVIOUS intent of hoping to GRAB some russian LAND -- ?
you of the ''west" with your relatively SMALL countries with FEW NATURAL RESOURCES? --
YOU ARE GOING TO BE IN FOR A RUDE, RUDE AWAKENING from your so-called ''news" about how ''backward and collapsed" russia IS.
YOU HAVE NO IDEA what you are getting yourselves into trying to make an ENEMY of russia that has NO INTEREST in ''expansion" to your TINY continent and british isles --
BUT are people who KNOW that it is YOU of the west hiding behind your excuses about ''russian aggression and threat" that is NON-EXISTENT --
IN ORDER TO JUSTIFY YOUR encirclement and 'pre-positioning' to INVADE their Land -- NOT the other way around!
don't believe me?
TRY IT - try war with russia.
roflmao...
s for MEDVEDEV -- HE may be prime minister -- but HE is WELL-KNOWN in russia - believe you me -- as a ''fifth columnist"
what THEY consider as someone who is an ''atlanticist" who thinks that russia OUGHT to ''assimilate under the anglo-america" world order...
and he IS NOT considered by russians as FIT to be their succeeding leader AT ALL.
he is more like being ''allowed" by his party and the russian electorate to do his job in ECONOMICS matters -- SO LONG as he ensures it is in keeping with their keeping their sovereignty and does not TRY TO sell-out their national interests to foreign interests.
as what happened in the 1990's.
they DO NOT FORGET that it was UNDER HIS ''Presidency" -- that Russia ALLOWED itself to ''vote" for ''no fly zone" over libya CONCOCTED by HILLARY CLINTON and the UK AND OBAMA --
THAT THE WEST TWISTED into an INVASION that destroyed libya - for the REAL intent they had -- to take down GADAFFI and put a stop to his establishing the gold dinar and gold-backed AFRICAN CURRENCY and REMOVE the USA DOLLAR AND EURO from african global transactions!
the russians have NOT forgiven medvedev on that MISTAKE. -- a mistake which NOW has led to LIBYA becoming a failed state that became the NURTURING GROUND for the very same ISIL terrorists that are now burning the middle east -- and have REACHED EUROPE ITSELF!
let's put it this way -- MEDVEDEV is there because he has SOME expertise in economics -- BUT he is on a TIGHT LEASH - and THAT'S the real reason PUTIN keeps him ''close" ...
lol.
and RUSSIAN populace - and i have talked with them from different walks of life -- engineers, tecnicians, laborers, shopkeepers, college students, scientists - artists, musicians, etc. etc. and from DIFFERENT regions of russia of DIFFERENT ethnicities --
KNOW IT. they are -- if anything else - a VERY patient people ..another thing i learned to admire. and find the western meme about them
frankly -- quite AMUSING. YES -- they are wary -- but they are VERY amused.
i asked them ''what do you think and how do you feel about all these western sanctions against your country? isolating you, they say?"
they SHRUG their shoulders -- and say
"so? let them ....we really are not afraid -- if the west and america think that they can change our behavior to be more obedient to their policies -- they will wait forever....these sanctions? sure it's harder for us -- but this is NOTHING compared to what we have gone through in history..we know what to do ...
but one thing we will never ever permit is for the west to rule over us...or to take from us anything without our permission...and we will never again permit what happened in the 1990's or war to be brought INTO our country..".
what THEY consider as someone who is an ''atlanticist" who thinks that russia OUGHT to ''assimilate under the anglo-america" world order...
and he IS NOT considered by russians as FIT to be their succeeding leader AT ALL.
he is more like being ''allowed" by his party and the russian electorate to do his job in ECONOMICS matters -- SO LONG as he ensures it is in keeping with their keeping their sovereignty and does not TRY TO sell-out their national interests to foreign interests.
as what happened in the 1990's.
they DO NOT FORGET that it was UNDER HIS ''Presidency" -- that Russia ALLOWED itself to ''vote" for ''no fly zone" over libya CONCOCTED by HILLARY CLINTON and the UK AND OBAMA --
THAT THE WEST TWISTED into an INVASION that destroyed libya - for the REAL intent they had -- to take down GADAFFI and put a stop to his establishing the gold dinar and gold-backed AFRICAN CURRENCY and REMOVE the USA DOLLAR AND EURO from african global transactions!
the russians have NOT forgiven medvedev on that MISTAKE. -- a mistake which NOW has led to LIBYA becoming a failed state that became the NURTURING GROUND for the very same ISIL terrorists that are now burning the middle east -- and have REACHED EUROPE ITSELF!
let's put it this way -- MEDVEDEV is there because he has SOME expertise in economics -- BUT he is on a TIGHT LEASH - and THAT'S the real reason PUTIN keeps him ''close" ...
lol.
and RUSSIAN populace - and i have talked with them from different walks of life -- engineers, tecnicians, laborers, shopkeepers, college students, scientists - artists, musicians, etc. etc. and from DIFFERENT regions of russia of DIFFERENT ethnicities --
KNOW IT. they are -- if anything else - a VERY patient people ..another thing i learned to admire. and find the western meme about them
frankly -- quite AMUSING. YES -- they are wary -- but they are VERY amused.
i asked them ''what do you think and how do you feel about all these western sanctions against your country? isolating you, they say?"
they SHRUG their shoulders -- and say
"so? let them ....we really are not afraid -- if the west and america think that they can change our behavior to be more obedient to their policies -- they will wait forever....these sanctions? sure it's harder for us -- but this is NOTHING compared to what we have gone through in history..we know what to do ...
but one thing we will never ever permit is for the west to rule over us...or to take from us anything without our permission...and we will never again permit what happened in the 1990's or war to be brought INTO our country..".
Lol Teddy... No grey areas for you...
Not sure how encirclement of Russia has anything to do with health figures. The Russians release that data to the WHO themselves and are working with them on solutions... "Try it... try war with Russia"... No thanks... not over health stats at least.
I'm not hiding behind any western propaganda... I've always said that the proposed shields in Eastern Europe were about Russia and China, not Iran... and that their is a clear policy of trying to strangle the Russians with encirclement and interfering into the Russian sphere of influence (Ukraine)... and empty speak about the Crimea... which was always Russian anyway. Still, that doesn't mean everything about Russia is absolutely perfect as you seem to claim... health figures being one of them.
Not sure how encirclement of Russia has anything to do with health figures. The Russians release that data to the WHO themselves and are working with them on solutions... "Try it... try war with Russia"... No thanks... not over health stats at least.
I'm not hiding behind any western propaganda... I've always said that the proposed shields in Eastern Europe were about Russia and China, not Iran... and that their is a clear policy of trying to strangle the Russians with encirclement and interfering into the Russian sphere of influence (Ukraine)... and empty speak about the Crimea... which was always Russian anyway. Still, that doesn't mean everything about Russia is absolutely perfect as you seem to claim... health figures being one of them.
oh -- just for the record -- the event i attended for two weeks in st petersburg was a classical music event - just a gathering really of classical musicians to share ideas, and group activities, etc...
but these were musicians - from all over the world - mostly from russia and europe of course - that had other professions --
college students in philology (a seemingly popular one in russia nowadays) - science, physics, engineering, art , history ...
plenty of engineers and doctors - there were physicists and one was a senior lecturer in russia's state space program ...
to these people -- the many years of ''russian isolation" that the USA loves to push around to its s0-called ''international coalition"
is a JOKE! roflmao. because the russians are too busy making constructive relations with PLENTY of other businesses and industries ELSEWHERE! LOL.let alone developing their domestic industries
there were two british guys - and we had nice chats actually . and they , it turns out, are yearly participants there since several years ago because they like it there so much and made so many friends already. one's a doctor and another a scottish engineer.
but these were musicians - from all over the world - mostly from russia and europe of course - that had other professions --
college students in philology (a seemingly popular one in russia nowadays) - science, physics, engineering, art , history ...
plenty of engineers and doctors - there were physicists and one was a senior lecturer in russia's state space program ...
to these people -- the many years of ''russian isolation" that the USA loves to push around to its s0-called ''international coalition"
is a JOKE! roflmao. because the russians are too busy making constructive relations with PLENTY of other businesses and industries ELSEWHERE! LOL.let alone developing their domestic industries
there were two british guys - and we had nice chats actually . and they , it turns out, are yearly participants there since several years ago because they like it there so much and made so many friends already. one's a doctor and another a scottish engineer.
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why should there be grey areas in matters of real critical importance?
ISN'T THAT WHAT THE WEST has propagandized with its ''war on terror" which IS NOW EXPOSED to be a western-induced EXCUSE for empire and expansion and meddling in the affairs of countries> ?
except it is now shown that it IS the west in collusion with its ''allies" like ''democracy loving " saudi arabia, qatar, until recently turkey itself to UNLEASH global terror as REGIME CHANGE operations RUN by the west particularly BY the USA?
LOL.
WHY is that not connected with the ''health of russians" subject - since the meme about ''the collapsing russian demographics" is SUCH A CENTRAL part of western ''journalism" about painting russia as some kind of ''backward' country that just needs ''WESTERN prescriptions and instructions" on how to BEHAVE and carry itself in its internal affairs and on how to behave in its ''assigned role" in international affairs - namely -- as a FOLLOWER of the angl0-american world ''order?"
lol.
the same statement by ERDOGAN to the american generals complaining about ''lack of democracy" in turkey (becuse turkey TURNS eastward to russia after the coup that is showing every sign of WESTERN collusion to STOP hiom from turnign towards russia and ''make-up" after TURKEY SHOT down russian jets bombing terrorists) --
applies to YOU of the west telling or writing about russia in that delusional way the west has for geneations:
""WHO ARE YOU?!! KNOW YOUR PLACE"
you are originated from a TINY ISLAND that thinks it has the right to impose its ''order" on the rest of the world!
lol.
tell me BRITBOX -- what has england or UK actually BUILT lately? i mean REALLY big real constructive projects outside LONDON'S FINANCIAL ECONOMY tha teveryone knows is the CENTER of global money laundering?
lol.
do you built great bridges like RUSSIA does with incredible speed and efficiency from east to west from crimea -- which BELONGS to russia and NEVER was ukrainian to begin with --
to sakhalin island in the pacific?
who are YOU britain compared to russia really?
you are going to talk about the ''alcoholic russians? "
what are we to say about the alcholics of britain and ireland in your own pubs?
or the americna populace with its FAT OVERSIZED BLOBS rolling around on the streets? with ITS falling life- expectancy?
coming back to new york - in kennedy airport a few weeks ago -- i got HIT with ''culture shock" seeing i was again surrounded by BLOBS everywhere! oh my god!
and mind you -- russia is , another suprise , a HIGHLY MIXED population -- with plenty of asiatic featured people who are about as russian as anyone else...and a population that i could NOT help but notice
often had smiles on their faces - unlike that in NYC - lots of hugging among them - a lot of them walking and holding hands - families everywhere - who are in peace and living harmoniously with each other.
NOT at all what the western paradigm LOVES to write for ITS own delusions.
roflmao .
compared to the russians -- the western ''civilization" from which some of you stand to make judgment about russians -- is PITIFUL as far as i am concerned!
ISN'T THAT WHAT THE WEST has propagandized with its ''war on terror" which IS NOW EXPOSED to be a western-induced EXCUSE for empire and expansion and meddling in the affairs of countries> ?
except it is now shown that it IS the west in collusion with its ''allies" like ''democracy loving " saudi arabia, qatar, until recently turkey itself to UNLEASH global terror as REGIME CHANGE operations RUN by the west particularly BY the USA?
LOL.
WHY is that not connected with the ''health of russians" subject - since the meme about ''the collapsing russian demographics" is SUCH A CENTRAL part of western ''journalism" about painting russia as some kind of ''backward' country that just needs ''WESTERN prescriptions and instructions" on how to BEHAVE and carry itself in its internal affairs and on how to behave in its ''assigned role" in international affairs - namely -- as a FOLLOWER of the angl0-american world ''order?"
lol.
the same statement by ERDOGAN to the american generals complaining about ''lack of democracy" in turkey (becuse turkey TURNS eastward to russia after the coup that is showing every sign of WESTERN collusion to STOP hiom from turnign towards russia and ''make-up" after TURKEY SHOT down russian jets bombing terrorists) --
applies to YOU of the west telling or writing about russia in that delusional way the west has for geneations:
""WHO ARE YOU?!! KNOW YOUR PLACE"
you are originated from a TINY ISLAND that thinks it has the right to impose its ''order" on the rest of the world!
lol.
tell me BRITBOX -- what has england or UK actually BUILT lately? i mean REALLY big real constructive projects outside LONDON'S FINANCIAL ECONOMY tha teveryone knows is the CENTER of global money laundering?
lol.
do you built great bridges like RUSSIA does with incredible speed and efficiency from east to west from crimea -- which BELONGS to russia and NEVER was ukrainian to begin with --
to sakhalin island in the pacific?
who are YOU britain compared to russia really?
you are going to talk about the ''alcoholic russians? "
what are we to say about the alcholics of britain and ireland in your own pubs?
or the americna populace with its FAT OVERSIZED BLOBS rolling around on the streets? with ITS falling life- expectancy?
coming back to new york - in kennedy airport a few weeks ago -- i got HIT with ''culture shock" seeing i was again surrounded by BLOBS everywhere! oh my god!
and mind you -- russia is , another suprise , a HIGHLY MIXED population -- with plenty of asiatic featured people who are about as russian as anyone else...and a population that i could NOT help but notice
often had smiles on their faces - unlike that in NYC - lots of hugging among them - a lot of them walking and holding hands - families everywhere - who are in peace and living harmoniously with each other.
NOT at all what the western paradigm LOVES to write for ITS own delusions.
roflmao .
compared to the russians -- the western ''civilization" from which some of you stand to make judgment about russians -- is PITIFUL as far as i am concerned!
where did i say it was ''perfect?
of course they have their problems -- i am not foolish - just because i talk the way i talk britbox.
my responses are in keeping with what is required by the OBVIOUS propaganda and delusions of the west about its ''superiority" in many affairs to the russian ''world' -
and ONE of these is about ''health" as you put it.
do you know? this is amazing too...
russians are transforming their cities into what amounts to gigantic outdoor gyms?
in which they have communities and neighborhoods and parks or even simple corners create exercise and fitness and athletics and health enhancing aras everywhere? so that -- even if russians can not 'afford' to go to specialized gyms --
it's THERE outside complete with volunteer professionals to lead and teach and encoruage..
i wondered about it - because i often saw teens USE their public spaces as if they were gyms -- some in the middle of the city where trees woudl be --
and using tree branches as pull-ups - sitting on the branches --
where in the USA they'd be POLICED!
BUT NOT the russians -- they make do - and with NATURAL rapport with their environment keep themselves healthy as a community. that was also a shock to me...and this is in a BIG city.
the LAST thing they are -- are the frightened little rats and mice that europe and the west have become!
lol.
heck -- would even watch every day from my hotel 3rd floor window above a street and a big river down there with ferry landings with tourists and party groups all the time --
wedding parties EVERY SINGLE DAY -- gathering there to ride their river trips
at 10 PM LOL..and partying -- rain or not drenching them - and drinking their cognac or vodka or wine --
and they'd stand right there on theriverside walk ways -- right on TOP or surrounded by ELECTRIC CABLES as city workers work on them - fixing cut wires from high winds and all that -- working around a BRIDE as she sips her wine and chatting and hugging away like nobody's business!
and workers just working their way around the folks the folks not bothering or being bothered -- and chatting and laughing away -
and it's all done in a jiffy !
NONE of this PARANOIA that is so characteristic of the ''free west"
lol!
of course they have their problems -- i am not foolish - just because i talk the way i talk britbox.
my responses are in keeping with what is required by the OBVIOUS propaganda and delusions of the west about its ''superiority" in many affairs to the russian ''world' -
and ONE of these is about ''health" as you put it.
do you know? this is amazing too...
russians are transforming their cities into what amounts to gigantic outdoor gyms?
in which they have communities and neighborhoods and parks or even simple corners create exercise and fitness and athletics and health enhancing aras everywhere? so that -- even if russians can not 'afford' to go to specialized gyms --
it's THERE outside complete with volunteer professionals to lead and teach and encoruage..
i wondered about it - because i often saw teens USE their public spaces as if they were gyms -- some in the middle of the city where trees woudl be --
and using tree branches as pull-ups - sitting on the branches --
where in the USA they'd be POLICED!
BUT NOT the russians -- they make do - and with NATURAL rapport with their environment keep themselves healthy as a community. that was also a shock to me...and this is in a BIG city.
the LAST thing they are -- are the frightened little rats and mice that europe and the west have become!
lol.
heck -- would even watch every day from my hotel 3rd floor window above a street and a big river down there with ferry landings with tourists and party groups all the time --
wedding parties EVERY SINGLE DAY -- gathering there to ride their river trips
at 10 PM LOL..and partying -- rain or not drenching them - and drinking their cognac or vodka or wine --
and they'd stand right there on theriverside walk ways -- right on TOP or surrounded by ELECTRIC CABLES as city workers work on them - fixing cut wires from high winds and all that -- working around a BRIDE as she sips her wine and chatting and hugging away like nobody's business!
and workers just working their way around the folks the folks not bothering or being bothered -- and chatting and laughing away -
and it's all done in a jiffy !
NONE of this PARANOIA that is so characteristic of the ''free west"
lol!
You seem to make plenty of observations about Russia living in the comfort of Western civilization yourself mate. If you really hate the west as much as you seem to then I'm not sure why you aren't living in Russia.
My observation was about the fantastic health of Russians you put forward... while the life expectancy contradicts that. I have no problems with Russians myself... more with some of the facts you put forward - some fanciful.
I respect the way the Russians don't let themselves get pushed around around by the west and think a Russian/Chinese counterbalance to the west is essential... but let's not pretend everything in Russia mirrors Utopia either. The UK and US have plenty of issues too... as you happily remind us... but also don't think governments speak for the wishes of their people when engaging in foreign policy... often they don't. The British public didn't want Iraq, Syria or Libya....
My observation was about the fantastic health of Russians you put forward... while the life expectancy contradicts that. I have no problems with Russians myself... more with some of the facts you put forward - some fanciful.
I respect the way the Russians don't let themselves get pushed around around by the west and think a Russian/Chinese counterbalance to the west is essential... but let's not pretend everything in Russia mirrors Utopia either. The UK and US have plenty of issues too... as you happily remind us... but also don't think governments speak for the wishes of their people when engaging in foreign policy... often they don't. The British public didn't want Iraq, Syria or Libya....
AND you certainly come up with the standard response from westerners towards ''those that criticzie the west"
that amounts to ''if you don't like the west -- why live here?"
it is an idiotic kind of argument that can not sustain REAL , warranted criticism.
you might as well say tha tto ANY american 'living in the comfort of the werst" that has realized the UTTER ROTTENES of the self-proclaimed ''leaders of civilziatio;n"
but are you going to tell THESE americans to ''go to russia?"
theycan't because that is reality for them - it does NOT mean they shoudl NOT exercise their critical faculties. that IS the mark of a thinking PERSON AS I AM .
IF I HAD THE TIME and could take back the years -- i WOULD NOT have BEEN SO LAZY or timid as i allowed myself to be -- ''living in the west" - and instead LISTENED to my instincts LONG AGO -- that i should have taken action and built on them - to enable to me to long ago have followed a russian teacher's wish that i would go to his country - at least 20 years ago.
but i did not follow his wish .
that is MY responsibility -- and MY fault.,
it does NOT mean that by 'living in the west" i am to DENY or BE eenied teh right to criticize it as it DESERVES.
AS FOR YOUR notion about my ''fanciful facts"
correct thyself - Britbox. you know little about these.
as of now -- here are 'fanciful facts"
part of which i base my observations on.
SAcntions BY DELUSIONAL USA/UK that they could 'isolate russia" lol;.
crimea -- which is RUSSIAN - not ''annexed" but RE-UNITED -
has sevastopol naval base since 350 years ago - when the USA was hardly a ''nation" ...
the USA - under guise of NATO and ''liberating crimea from russian invasion" and under guise of ''democratic ukraine" peoplled by USA installed FASCISTS Who declare themselves as SUCH - (thatis not fanciful) -
tried to GRAB SEVASTOPOL ..couldn't - thereofre ''sanctiosn" russia.
RESULT:
RUSSIAN COUNTER SANCTIONS on european agriculture -- asean and african nations become new import export partners -- heck i ATE the food , delicious!
russian agriculture -- in just 2 harvest seasons - is NOW the world's LARGEST EXPORTER of NON-GMO wheat - lol...russian farmers are onlyu getting started and
couldn't be more DELIRIOUS -- SAYING 'thank you uncle sam, thank you -- more sanctions please!!"
france's and italy's top wine makers are BEGGING russian to let them invest and rent land in crimea for wine making -- while tradtional russian wine makers are SURGING in their market ..
turkey shot down russian jet that cfaused the death of a russian pilot -- where INDICATIONS are pointing to AMERICAN/NATO collusion in giving the turkish pilots -- who turn out to have been part of the COUP attempt on erdogan recenlty -- AND had contacts with AMERICAN ADVISERS -- ARE to some extent at least GUILTY of it.
result turkey-'s eocnomcy spirals down from LOSS of 20 billion in trade with russia. are russians crying?
no -- it's turkey and it shotel and tourism and agriculture export and other trade busienss that TANKED...THAT'S WHAT THEY GOT from being an american ALLY in the USA/ANGLO'S ATTEMPT to 'isolate russia'
AND why?
because russian won't kneel!
and exposed the USA/UK/WEST as the REAL instigators of GLOBAL TERRORISM which they use as EXCUSES for DESTABILIZING countries they see as ''ripe for regime change' .
their /your ''west's" FRAUDULENT ''democracy'' leadership is now COMPLETELY exposed for the imperial, land, resource grabbing that it has always been -- and washington is FUMING AND REELING that short of WAR with russia -- which HILLARY badly lusts after -- they can't make russia or china or iran
KNEEL. the way they are used to with some small or weak country!
LOL..
You seem to be confusing me with somebody who doesn't know the facts you mentioned above about the Crimea and encirclement of Russia or the west meddling in affairs that shouldn't be any of their business. I'm very aware of them and on those particular issues I've roughly followed a similar opinion... and a lot longer than you probably know.
However, you seem to be lumping in every single person of the west in to "one way thinking and one way opinion" that mirrors a governments actions. Try reading some of the other threads on politics to appreciate that there are a wide range of different and conflicting views from people (including those from the same country) instead of jumping to a conclusion that everybody is brainwashed by a government action and agree with everything their elected politicians do.
As for "if you don't like it then relocate"... I've never been particularly patient with people who moan constantly about stuff without looking for a long term pathway to an alternative. If you don't like where you live... then work on plan for an alternative.... if you don't like your job... then work on a long term solution to do something else. Some of these things take time... but when people moan about the same stuff years down the line without doing anything about it, I don't have much sympathy. You only live once, it's not a rehearsal.
However, you seem to be lumping in every single person of the west in to "one way thinking and one way opinion" that mirrors a governments actions. Try reading some of the other threads on politics to appreciate that there are a wide range of different and conflicting views from people (including those from the same country) instead of jumping to a conclusion that everybody is brainwashed by a government action and agree with everything their elected politicians do.
As for "if you don't like it then relocate"... I've never been particularly patient with people who moan constantly about stuff without looking for a long term pathway to an alternative. If you don't like where you live... then work on plan for an alternative.... if you don't like your job... then work on a long term solution to do something else. Some of these things take time... but when people moan about the same stuff years down the line without doing anything about it, I don't have much sympathy. You only live once, it's not a rehearsal.
well -- YOU seem to mistake me as someone who doesn't make efforts to change their lives or conditions --
and THAT doesn't give you the right to STILL use that stupid argument about
''if you don';t like it in america and criticize why are you there""
since that doesn't address the reality that living in a place you DON'T particularly like DOESN'T mean you CAN'T criticize it either.
what kind of logic do you have? these are to distinct matters;
'the conditions of where one lives"
from the right to criticize WHETHER or not one can do anything about it -- as the majority of people on EARTH are in.
that's just STUPID argument on your part.
it is like saying -- where one lives - unless you can change matters - one should't criticize. just stupid. sorry to say.
because not everhyone on this planet are like YOU - perhaps who can blithely say ''change your life' -- as in ''BEFORE YOU CRITICIZE where you live"
and can easily be app;lied to any person on the planet :
"if you don't like the injustice of wealth distribution BECOME RICH'.
''IF YOU don't like america -- go live somewhere'" while an american that is criticial of the conditions of america KNOWS his entire existence is TRAPPED by where he lives in --
we might as well NOT discuss matters.
so please SEPARATE that ability to criticize from whether or not a person can or will change ''where you life or how" .
secondly -- you also do not seem to get the point -- that when i mention certain facts -- it has nothing to do with whether you know them or NOT..i am putting them out partly to counter , as examples, many stupid notions about russian ''backwardness" so common in the west - and simply come by way of this discussin in which you happen to be the one engaged. i am engaged with the subject matter of ''western journalism" about russia and so produce examples.
if you know about them -- GOOD FOR YOU AND if i say you don't know enough it is because you demonstrate it in your own statements such as citing 'reports' -- including that of remarks by the russian official which are about their concerns as part of any responsible politician's job - but does NOT in any way reflect that general notion in the west about ''the aclcoholic russian'' or the ''unhealthy'' russian society that is part of the PAINTING of russia as some backward society so commonly plied forth in the west.
and THAT doesn't give you the right to STILL use that stupid argument about
''if you don';t like it in america and criticize why are you there""
since that doesn't address the reality that living in a place you DON'T particularly like DOESN'T mean you CAN'T criticize it either.
what kind of logic do you have? these are to distinct matters;
'the conditions of where one lives"
from the right to criticize WHETHER or not one can do anything about it -- as the majority of people on EARTH are in.
that's just STUPID argument on your part.
it is like saying -- where one lives - unless you can change matters - one should't criticize. just stupid. sorry to say.
because not everhyone on this planet are like YOU - perhaps who can blithely say ''change your life' -- as in ''BEFORE YOU CRITICIZE where you live"
and can easily be app;lied to any person on the planet :
"if you don't like the injustice of wealth distribution BECOME RICH'.
''IF YOU don't like america -- go live somewhere'" while an american that is criticial of the conditions of america KNOWS his entire existence is TRAPPED by where he lives in --
we might as well NOT discuss matters.
so please SEPARATE that ability to criticize from whether or not a person can or will change ''where you life or how" .
secondly -- you also do not seem to get the point -- that when i mention certain facts -- it has nothing to do with whether you know them or NOT..i am putting them out partly to counter , as examples, many stupid notions about russian ''backwardness" so common in the west - and simply come by way of this discussin in which you happen to be the one engaged. i am engaged with the subject matter of ''western journalism" about russia and so produce examples.
if you know about them -- GOOD FOR YOU AND if i say you don't know enough it is because you demonstrate it in your own statements such as citing 'reports' -- including that of remarks by the russian official which are about their concerns as part of any responsible politician's job - but does NOT in any way reflect that general notion in the west about ''the aclcoholic russian'' or the ''unhealthy'' russian society that is part of the PAINTING of russia as some backward society so commonly plied forth in the west.
furthermore don't turn this discussion about ME -- or what i do or plan or unable to do ''while i whine" --
that's NONE of your business nor whether i am of those that you 'dont' have patience" with --
because the point here IS; whatever MY life is about -- my opinions are NOT subject to whether you are patient about the kind of life i or ohters have in ORDER to have opinions!
stick to the subject matter of whether russia is this or that -- and i point out where notions are WRONG and misinformed.
and one of these is the notion of ''alcoholic russians' - just because they DO drink..or that they have a ''failing demographic|" just because there are many people who die in their fifties
as IF there are no improvements there -- which I, to my surprise was NOT exactly the case as the ''numbers say" gathered over periods of time that the actual realities TODAY may NO longer warrant.
that's NONE of your business nor whether i am of those that you 'dont' have patience" with --
because the point here IS; whatever MY life is about -- my opinions are NOT subject to whether you are patient about the kind of life i or ohters have in ORDER to have opinions!
stick to the subject matter of whether russia is this or that -- and i point out where notions are WRONG and misinformed.
and one of these is the notion of ''alcoholic russians' - just because they DO drink..or that they have a ''failing demographic|" just because there are many people who die in their fifties
as IF there are no improvements there -- which I, to my surprise was NOT exactly the case as the ''numbers say" gathered over periods of time that the actual realities TODAY may NO longer warrant.
^ Practice what you preach Ted. You make sweeping generalisations about how you perceive others "think" without actually asking.
I wasn't spouting any western propaganda - just quoting the health minister of Russia and the former Russian president and prime minister regarding the mortality rates in Russia. Something you seem very sensitive about - immediately dismissing Medvedev's opinions.
As for having opinions on places we live and don't live.... we're both guilty as charged, no?
I wasn't spouting any western propaganda - just quoting the health minister of Russia and the former Russian president and prime minister regarding the mortality rates in Russia. Something you seem very sensitive about - immediately dismissing Medvedev's opinions.
As for having opinions on places we live and don't live.... we're both guilty as charged, no?
when i make ''sweeping generalizations about how others think"
it didn't not make up the observed generalization, HISTORY and reality shows it. i merely state what is OBSERVABLE and demonstrated.
'westerners' have for generations believed what is PROVEN and not jut observable as the WESTERN media posing as ''journalism" exposing itself by the day -- in its ever-more comical way to be NOTHING of the sort as far as the MSM goes that supposedly ''shape" opinions -- such AS about russia or china or iran etc...
and for that matter the same things to justify the destruction of entire countries..
while YOU of the west tremble at the thought of ''wmd's over our heads" NONSENSE ..and think nothing of the fact that entire countries were destroyed by YOURS.
IT IS AS SIMPLE AS THAT.
SO - for you to complain about 'generalizing" from ME?
after the british EMPIRE has rendered entire cultures subjected to the loss of their lands and their independence for centuries ? same with america?
most of THAT behavior by countries such as YOURS based on GENERALIZATIONS about ''those savage indians, those backward indians in asia, those africans, those terrorists, those , those those who are not free like US ?"
WHO MADE THAT INTO A GLOBAL PHENOMENON - this ''generalization" business about people and cultures elsehwere whose LANDS you took or pillaged about whom you know LITTLE?
so don't lecture me about what ''generalizing" is.
it didn't not make up the observed generalization, HISTORY and reality shows it. i merely state what is OBSERVABLE and demonstrated.
'westerners' have for generations believed what is PROVEN and not jut observable as the WESTERN media posing as ''journalism" exposing itself by the day -- in its ever-more comical way to be NOTHING of the sort as far as the MSM goes that supposedly ''shape" opinions -- such AS about russia or china or iran etc...
and for that matter the same things to justify the destruction of entire countries..
while YOU of the west tremble at the thought of ''wmd's over our heads" NONSENSE ..and think nothing of the fact that entire countries were destroyed by YOURS.
IT IS AS SIMPLE AS THAT.
SO - for you to complain about 'generalizing" from ME?
after the british EMPIRE has rendered entire cultures subjected to the loss of their lands and their independence for centuries ? same with america?
most of THAT behavior by countries such as YOURS based on GENERALIZATIONS about ''those savage indians, those backward indians in asia, those africans, those terrorists, those , those those who are not free like US ?"
WHO MADE THAT INTO A GLOBAL PHENOMENON - this ''generalization" business about people and cultures elsehwere whose LANDS you took or pillaged about whom you know LITTLE?
so don't lecture me about what ''generalizing" is.
concerning MEDVEDEV.
he is a leader of russia -- past president and then appointed in turn as prime minister. that's how their system works -- president and his part are elected - then president appoints prime minister.
--
his assessment of matters is what he is supposed to do and so the health minister. EVEN PUTIN shares the concerns about the health of their nation.
part of their concern involves studies and finding ways to encourage their society towards the solutions.
these -- the numbers and findings as well as the actual actions taken by the society and leadership are a distinct matter from what i explained as the constant OLD meme of the western paradigm about the comparative ''backwardness" of russia in matters that western society proclaims ITSELF as the paragon of global standards of living.
this is just one area in which i am making my comments as a response to the general ideology rampant and practically characteristic of western society in which they somehow have SUCH exemplary ways
they - and YOU -- love to point out some deficiency about some country in some area -- in this case ''russian alohol consumption" - as a response to MY statements that it is WRONG to continue to believe that russians somehow are UNHEALTHY because they are NOT so ''liberalizes" according to the western desires
that have MORE to do with YOUR governments and corporations wishing to ''liberalize russia" to suit the desires of the west to THEIR advantage towards the SAME OLD WESTERN GAME of pluindering and pillaging.
whether or NOT russians are indeed as ''alcoholic" as they are made out to be -- WHAT OF IT?
what BUSINESS IS IT OF ANY OF YOU in the west - WHEN you YOURSELVES have problems of UNHEALTHY populations -- HALF of your britons are effectively living in POVERTY for a so-called ''first world" that even called itself the ''ruler of the seas": while you enriched your banks with your country's plundering elsewhere - let alone ''map-making" ...
when americans are KNOWN to be the MOST OBESE population on earth...they might be making the earth GROAN under the weight!
when amerifcans CONSUME pharmaceuticals with children who are DRUGGED UP ...
- in other words -- this SELF-RIGHTEOUS talk from the west - not least from your ''opinion makers' about the deficiencies of this or that country elsewhere -- be it in the health of russians , or the ''democracy" or lack of it in china or iran , or the poverty in india or africa...
a LOT of it the RESULT of your western countries' and institutionss' global schemes aided and abetted by your MILITARISTIC adventures far far away from YOUR own streets and from your TINY islands and ''countries" in europe
NEED TO BE ADDRESSED -- AND if the criticism is NOT to your excact liking --
''generalized" as they are , suchas mine, then -- ask yourselves
who started it all in this world?
did CHINA INVADE YOU IN LONDON during the victorian era? did RUSSIA threaten YOU with ''isolation and sanctions through a coalition of the willing"
like YOUR UK AND AMERICA LED against iraq or syria or libya and DOZENS of other countries?
is it china and russia and common security treaty organization CSTO in asia that is meddling in YOUR POLITICAL and regional affairs in europe , the west
the way YOUR NATO abrogates to ITSELF the right to ALSO 'join america "
in the FAKE excuse of 'freedom of navigation" around china in south china sea
that had NEVER seen in all the thousands of years ANHY conflict among the asians UNTIL your america and british and westerners came around -- not LEAST in this very day?
so -- ask yourself -- WHO ARE YOU to even have ANY opinions denigrating ANYONE outside of your PRECIOUS ''west?"
YOU HAVE NO credibility EVEN with you SYMBOLS that you like to wrap around yourselves in your centuries of pillaging others with your big talk about
'democracy, prosperity, justice, truth' blah, blah, blah"
as your OWN societies descend into BARBARISM from which you probably all came from anyway!
annd i shudder to think of what YOU'LL ALL behave LIKE when unless they can avoid it or hide it yet agagin -- -- teh german DEUTSCHE BANK implodes -- and takes down with it ALL of europe's financial ''power" -- that's potentially bigger than 2008 wall street with the western shenanigans that your london banks HELPED create to HIDE your UTTER dependence on SPECULATION
AND ''welath creation" tha thas NOTHING TO DO WITH ACTUALLY PRODUCING CROPS OR WHEAT - LIKE THE RUSSIANS DO pr like the chinese DO or like the peasants in uruguay do!
i shudder to think how you - oh so ''top of the world' westserners will behave not just towards the ''foreigners' and ''migrants" that YOUR OWN COLONIAL POLICIES brought into reality washing on YOUR shores AS the CONSEQUENCE OF THE MISERY your countries have exported to enrich yourselves --
but even towards EACH OTHER when you impending collapse as a financial ''region" -- comes around to touch your very households....so that you have a TASTE of what
YOU -- THE WEST -- COLLECTIVELY over generations have DONE to others in THEIR lands. !
he is a leader of russia -- past president and then appointed in turn as prime minister. that's how their system works -- president and his part are elected - then president appoints prime minister.
--
his assessment of matters is what he is supposed to do and so the health minister. EVEN PUTIN shares the concerns about the health of their nation.
part of their concern involves studies and finding ways to encourage their society towards the solutions.
these -- the numbers and findings as well as the actual actions taken by the society and leadership are a distinct matter from what i explained as the constant OLD meme of the western paradigm about the comparative ''backwardness" of russia in matters that western society proclaims ITSELF as the paragon of global standards of living.
this is just one area in which i am making my comments as a response to the general ideology rampant and practically characteristic of western society in which they somehow have SUCH exemplary ways
they - and YOU -- love to point out some deficiency about some country in some area -- in this case ''russian alohol consumption" - as a response to MY statements that it is WRONG to continue to believe that russians somehow are UNHEALTHY because they are NOT so ''liberalizes" according to the western desires
that have MORE to do with YOUR governments and corporations wishing to ''liberalize russia" to suit the desires of the west to THEIR advantage towards the SAME OLD WESTERN GAME of pluindering and pillaging.
whether or NOT russians are indeed as ''alcoholic" as they are made out to be -- WHAT OF IT?
what BUSINESS IS IT OF ANY OF YOU in the west - WHEN you YOURSELVES have problems of UNHEALTHY populations -- HALF of your britons are effectively living in POVERTY for a so-called ''first world" that even called itself the ''ruler of the seas": while you enriched your banks with your country's plundering elsewhere - let alone ''map-making" ...
when americans are KNOWN to be the MOST OBESE population on earth...they might be making the earth GROAN under the weight!
when amerifcans CONSUME pharmaceuticals with children who are DRUGGED UP ...
- in other words -- this SELF-RIGHTEOUS talk from the west - not least from your ''opinion makers' about the deficiencies of this or that country elsewhere -- be it in the health of russians , or the ''democracy" or lack of it in china or iran , or the poverty in india or africa...
a LOT of it the RESULT of your western countries' and institutionss' global schemes aided and abetted by your MILITARISTIC adventures far far away from YOUR own streets and from your TINY islands and ''countries" in europe
NEED TO BE ADDRESSED -- AND if the criticism is NOT to your excact liking --
''generalized" as they are , suchas mine, then -- ask yourselves
who started it all in this world?
did CHINA INVADE YOU IN LONDON during the victorian era? did RUSSIA threaten YOU with ''isolation and sanctions through a coalition of the willing"
like YOUR UK AND AMERICA LED against iraq or syria or libya and DOZENS of other countries?
is it china and russia and common security treaty organization CSTO in asia that is meddling in YOUR POLITICAL and regional affairs in europe , the west
the way YOUR NATO abrogates to ITSELF the right to ALSO 'join america "
in the FAKE excuse of 'freedom of navigation" around china in south china sea
that had NEVER seen in all the thousands of years ANHY conflict among the asians UNTIL your america and british and westerners came around -- not LEAST in this very day?
so -- ask yourself -- WHO ARE YOU to even have ANY opinions denigrating ANYONE outside of your PRECIOUS ''west?"
YOU HAVE NO credibility EVEN with you SYMBOLS that you like to wrap around yourselves in your centuries of pillaging others with your big talk about
'democracy, prosperity, justice, truth' blah, blah, blah"
as your OWN societies descend into BARBARISM from which you probably all came from anyway!
annd i shudder to think of what YOU'LL ALL behave LIKE when unless they can avoid it or hide it yet agagin -- -- teh german DEUTSCHE BANK implodes -- and takes down with it ALL of europe's financial ''power" -- that's potentially bigger than 2008 wall street with the western shenanigans that your london banks HELPED create to HIDE your UTTER dependence on SPECULATION
AND ''welath creation" tha thas NOTHING TO DO WITH ACTUALLY PRODUCING CROPS OR WHEAT - LIKE THE RUSSIANS DO pr like the chinese DO or like the peasants in uruguay do!
i shudder to think how you - oh so ''top of the world' westserners will behave not just towards the ''foreigners' and ''migrants" that YOUR OWN COLONIAL POLICIES brought into reality washing on YOUR shores AS the CONSEQUENCE OF THE MISERY your countries have exported to enrich yourselves --
but even towards EACH OTHER when you impending collapse as a financial ''region" -- comes around to touch your very households....so that you have a TASTE of what
YOU -- THE WEST -- COLLECTIVELY over generations have DONE to others in THEIR lands. !
Last edited:
CLINTON already having surrounded herself with her future ''advisers" -- namely -- the warmongers --
is ALREADY well on the way towards the planning of WAR with RUSSIA ''in syria" -
m,ake no mistake about it.
she WANTS A ''one on one" with russia...
=================================
original.antiwar.com
Hillary Clinton and Her Hawks - Antiwar.com Original
Gareth Porter
As Hillary Clinton begins her final charge for the White House, her advisers are already recommending air strikes and other new military measures against the Assad regime in Syria.
The clear signals of Clinton’s readiness to go to war appears to be aimed at influencing the course of the war in Syria as well as U.S. policy over the remaining six months of the Obama administration. (She also may be hoping to corral the votes of Republican neoconservatives concerned about Donald Trump’s “America First†foreign policy.)
Last month, the think tank run by Michele Flournoy, the former Defense Department official considered to be most likely to be Clinton’s choice to be Secretary of Defense, explicitly called for “limited military strikes†against the Assad regime.
And earlier this month Leon Panetta, former Defense Secretary and CIA Director, who has been advising candidate Clinton, declared in an interview that the next president would have to increase the number of Special Forces and carry out air strikes to help “moderate†groups against President Bashal al-Assad. (When Panetta gave a belligerent speech at the Democratic National Convention on Wednesday night, he was interrupted by chants from the delegates on the floor of “no more war!â€
Flournoy co-founded the Center for New American Security (CNAS) in 2007 to promote support for US war policies in Iraq and Afghanistan, and then became Under Secretary of Defense for Policy in the Obama administration in 2009.
Flournoy left her Pentagon position in 2012 and returned to CNAS as Chief Executive Officer. She has been described by ultimate insider journalist David Ignatius of the Washington Post, as being on a “short, short list†for the job Secretary of Defense in a Clinton administration.
Last month, CNAS published a report of a “Study Group†on military policy in Syria on the eve of the organization’s annual conference. Ostensibly focused on how to defeat the Islamic State, the report recommends new US military actions against the Assad regime.
Flournoy chaired the task force, along with CNAS president Richard Fontaine, and publicly embraced its main policy recommendation in remarks at the conference.
She called for “using limited military coercion†to help support the forces seeking to force President Assad from power, in part by creating a “no bombing†zone over those areas in which the opposition groups backed by the United States could operate safely.
In an interview with Defense One, Flournoy described the no-bomb zone as saying to the Russian and Syrian governments, “If you bomb the folks we support, we will retaliate using standoff means to destroy [Russian] proxy forces, or, in this case, Syrian assets.†That would “stop the bombing of certain civilian populations,†Flournoy said.
In a letter to the editor of Defense One, Flournoy denied having advocated “putting US combat troops on the ground to take territory from Assad’s forces or remove Assad from power,†which she said the title and content of the article had suggested.
But she confirmed that she had argued that “the US should under some circumstances consider using limited military coercion – primarily strikes using standoff weapons – to retaliate against Syrian military targets†for attacks on civilian or opposition groups “and to set more favorable conditions on the ground for a negotiated political settlement.â€
Renaming a ‘No-Fly’ Zone
The proposal for a “no bombing zone†has clearly replaced the “no fly zone,†which Clinton has repeatedly supported in the past as the slogan to cover a much broader US military role in Syria.
Panetta served as Defense Secretary and CIA Director in the Obama administration when Clinton was Secretary of State, and was Clinton’s ally on Syria policy. On July 17, he gave an interview to CBS News in which he called for steps that partly complemented and partly paralleled the recommendations in the CNAS paper.
“I think the likelihood is that the next president is gonna have to consider adding additional special forces on the ground,†Panetta said, “to try to assist those moderate forces that are taking on ISIS and that are taking on Assad’s forces.â€
Panetta was deliberately conflating two different issues in supporting more US Special Forces in Syria. The existing military mission for those forces is to support the anti-ISIS forces made up overwhelmingly of the Kurdish YPG and a few opposition groups.
Neither the Kurds nor the opposition groups the Special Forces are supporting are fighting against the Assad regime. What Panetta presented as a need only for additional personnel is in fact a completely new US mission for Special Forces of putting military pressure on the Assad regime.
He also called for increasing “strikes†in order to “put increasing pressure on ISIS but also on Assad.†That wording, which jibes with the Flournoy-CNAS recommendation, again conflates two entirely different strategic programs as a single program.
The Panetta ploys in confusing two separate policy issues reflects the reality that the majority of the American public strongly supports doing more militarily to defeat ISIS but has been opposed to US war against the government in Syria.
A poll taken last spring showed 57 percent in favor of a more aggressive US military force against ISIS. The last time public opinion was surveyed on the issue of war against the Assad regime, however, was in September 2013, just as Congress was about to vote on authorizing such a strike.
At that time, 55 percent to 77 percent of those surveyed opposed the use of military force against the Syrian regime, depending on whether Congress voted to authorize such a strike or to oppose it.
Shaping the Debate
It is highly unusual, if not unprecedented, for figures known to be close to a presidential candidate to make public recommendations for new and broader war abroad. The fact that such explicit plans for military strikes against the Assad regime were aired so openly soon after Clinton had clinched the Democratic nomination suggests that Clinton had encouraged Flournoy and Panetta to do so.
The rationale for doing so is evidently not to strengthen her public support at home but to shape the policy decisions made by the Obama administration and the coalition of external supporters of the armed opposition to Assad.
Obama’s refusal to threaten to use military force on behalf of the anti-Assad forces or to step up military assistance to them has provoked a series of leaks to the news media by unnamed officials – primarily from the Defense Department – criticizing Obama’s willingness to cooperate with Russia in seeking a Syrian ceasefire and political settlement as “naïve.â€
The news of Clinton’s advisers calling openly for military measures signals to those critics in the administration to continue to push for a more aggressive policy on the premise that she will do just that as president.
Even more important to Clinton and close associates, however, is the hope of encouraging Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Qatar, which have been supporting the armed opposition to Assad, to persist in and even intensify their efforts in the face of the prospect of U.S.-Russian cooperation in Syria.
Even before the recommendations were revealed, specialists on Syria in Washington think tanks were already observing signs that Saudi and Qatari policymakers were waiting for the Obama administration to end in the hope that Clinton would be elected and take a more activist role in the war against Assad.
The new Prime Minister of Turkey, Binali Yildirim, however, made a statement on July 13 suggesting that Turkish President Recep Yayyip Erdogan may be considering a deal with Russia and the Assad regime at the expense of both Syrian Kurds and the anti-Assad opposition.
That certainly would have alarmed Clinton’s advisers, and four days later, Panetta made his comments on network television about what “the next president†would have to do in Syria.
Gareth Porter, an investigative historian and journalist specializing in US national security policy, received the UK-based Gellhorn Prize for journalism for 2011 for articles on the U.S. war in Afghanistan. His new book is Manufactured Crisis: the Untold Story of the Iran Nuclear Scare. He can be contacted at porter.gareth50@gmail.com.
Reprinted from Consortium News with the author’s permission.
Read more by Gareth Porter
is ALREADY well on the way towards the planning of WAR with RUSSIA ''in syria" -
m,ake no mistake about it.
she WANTS A ''one on one" with russia...
=================================
original.antiwar.com
Hillary Clinton and Her Hawks - Antiwar.com Original
Gareth Porter
As Hillary Clinton begins her final charge for the White House, her advisers are already recommending air strikes and other new military measures against the Assad regime in Syria.
The clear signals of Clinton’s readiness to go to war appears to be aimed at influencing the course of the war in Syria as well as U.S. policy over the remaining six months of the Obama administration. (She also may be hoping to corral the votes of Republican neoconservatives concerned about Donald Trump’s “America First†foreign policy.)
Last month, the think tank run by Michele Flournoy, the former Defense Department official considered to be most likely to be Clinton’s choice to be Secretary of Defense, explicitly called for “limited military strikes†against the Assad regime.
And earlier this month Leon Panetta, former Defense Secretary and CIA Director, who has been advising candidate Clinton, declared in an interview that the next president would have to increase the number of Special Forces and carry out air strikes to help “moderate†groups against President Bashal al-Assad. (When Panetta gave a belligerent speech at the Democratic National Convention on Wednesday night, he was interrupted by chants from the delegates on the floor of “no more war!â€
Flournoy co-founded the Center for New American Security (CNAS) in 2007 to promote support for US war policies in Iraq and Afghanistan, and then became Under Secretary of Defense for Policy in the Obama administration in 2009.
Flournoy left her Pentagon position in 2012 and returned to CNAS as Chief Executive Officer. She has been described by ultimate insider journalist David Ignatius of the Washington Post, as being on a “short, short list†for the job Secretary of Defense in a Clinton administration.
Last month, CNAS published a report of a “Study Group†on military policy in Syria on the eve of the organization’s annual conference. Ostensibly focused on how to defeat the Islamic State, the report recommends new US military actions against the Assad regime.
Flournoy chaired the task force, along with CNAS president Richard Fontaine, and publicly embraced its main policy recommendation in remarks at the conference.
She called for “using limited military coercion†to help support the forces seeking to force President Assad from power, in part by creating a “no bombing†zone over those areas in which the opposition groups backed by the United States could operate safely.
In an interview with Defense One, Flournoy described the no-bomb zone as saying to the Russian and Syrian governments, “If you bomb the folks we support, we will retaliate using standoff means to destroy [Russian] proxy forces, or, in this case, Syrian assets.†That would “stop the bombing of certain civilian populations,†Flournoy said.
In a letter to the editor of Defense One, Flournoy denied having advocated “putting US combat troops on the ground to take territory from Assad’s forces or remove Assad from power,†which she said the title and content of the article had suggested.
But she confirmed that she had argued that “the US should under some circumstances consider using limited military coercion – primarily strikes using standoff weapons – to retaliate against Syrian military targets†for attacks on civilian or opposition groups “and to set more favorable conditions on the ground for a negotiated political settlement.â€
Renaming a ‘No-Fly’ Zone
The proposal for a “no bombing zone†has clearly replaced the “no fly zone,†which Clinton has repeatedly supported in the past as the slogan to cover a much broader US military role in Syria.
Panetta served as Defense Secretary and CIA Director in the Obama administration when Clinton was Secretary of State, and was Clinton’s ally on Syria policy. On July 17, he gave an interview to CBS News in which he called for steps that partly complemented and partly paralleled the recommendations in the CNAS paper.
“I think the likelihood is that the next president is gonna have to consider adding additional special forces on the ground,†Panetta said, “to try to assist those moderate forces that are taking on ISIS and that are taking on Assad’s forces.â€
Panetta was deliberately conflating two different issues in supporting more US Special Forces in Syria. The existing military mission for those forces is to support the anti-ISIS forces made up overwhelmingly of the Kurdish YPG and a few opposition groups.
Neither the Kurds nor the opposition groups the Special Forces are supporting are fighting against the Assad regime. What Panetta presented as a need only for additional personnel is in fact a completely new US mission for Special Forces of putting military pressure on the Assad regime.
He also called for increasing “strikes†in order to “put increasing pressure on ISIS but also on Assad.†That wording, which jibes with the Flournoy-CNAS recommendation, again conflates two entirely different strategic programs as a single program.
The Panetta ploys in confusing two separate policy issues reflects the reality that the majority of the American public strongly supports doing more militarily to defeat ISIS but has been opposed to US war against the government in Syria.
A poll taken last spring showed 57 percent in favor of a more aggressive US military force against ISIS. The last time public opinion was surveyed on the issue of war against the Assad regime, however, was in September 2013, just as Congress was about to vote on authorizing such a strike.
At that time, 55 percent to 77 percent of those surveyed opposed the use of military force against the Syrian regime, depending on whether Congress voted to authorize such a strike or to oppose it.
Shaping the Debate
It is highly unusual, if not unprecedented, for figures known to be close to a presidential candidate to make public recommendations for new and broader war abroad. The fact that such explicit plans for military strikes against the Assad regime were aired so openly soon after Clinton had clinched the Democratic nomination suggests that Clinton had encouraged Flournoy and Panetta to do so.
The rationale for doing so is evidently not to strengthen her public support at home but to shape the policy decisions made by the Obama administration and the coalition of external supporters of the armed opposition to Assad.
Obama’s refusal to threaten to use military force on behalf of the anti-Assad forces or to step up military assistance to them has provoked a series of leaks to the news media by unnamed officials – primarily from the Defense Department – criticizing Obama’s willingness to cooperate with Russia in seeking a Syrian ceasefire and political settlement as “naïve.â€
The news of Clinton’s advisers calling openly for military measures signals to those critics in the administration to continue to push for a more aggressive policy on the premise that she will do just that as president.
Even more important to Clinton and close associates, however, is the hope of encouraging Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Qatar, which have been supporting the armed opposition to Assad, to persist in and even intensify their efforts in the face of the prospect of U.S.-Russian cooperation in Syria.
Even before the recommendations were revealed, specialists on Syria in Washington think tanks were already observing signs that Saudi and Qatari policymakers were waiting for the Obama administration to end in the hope that Clinton would be elected and take a more activist role in the war against Assad.
The new Prime Minister of Turkey, Binali Yildirim, however, made a statement on July 13 suggesting that Turkish President Recep Yayyip Erdogan may be considering a deal with Russia and the Assad regime at the expense of both Syrian Kurds and the anti-Assad opposition.
That certainly would have alarmed Clinton’s advisers, and four days later, Panetta made his comments on network television about what “the next president†would have to do in Syria.
Gareth Porter, an investigative historian and journalist specializing in US national security policy, received the UK-based Gellhorn Prize for journalism for 2011 for articles on the U.S. war in Afghanistan. His new book is Manufactured Crisis: the Untold Story of the Iran Nuclear Scare. He can be contacted at porter.gareth50@gmail.com.
Reprinted from Consortium News with the author’s permission.
Read more by Gareth Porter
- A New Fight Over Syria War Strategy – July 8th, 2016
- Why the Sanders ‘Revolution’ Must Take on the Permanent War State – July 3rd, 2016
- The Syria ‘Dissent’ Memo and US Bureaucratic Pressure Strategy – June 28th, 2016
- Political Pressure Stymies US-Iran Ties – May 15th, 2016
- Obama Broke Pledge To Demand Syrian Opposition’s Separation From Nusra Front – May 12th, 2016
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