ISIS

[Murat Baslamisli]

Does anybody else have a really strong sense of De Ja Vu, or is it just me?

Once again we have supported groups of people to topple down stable governments ( I am not arguing they were democracies or dictatorships...the fact is they were stable. Gadaffi, Saddam, Esad, they might not be poster boys for democracy, but they kept the radical groups in check, albeit with an iron fist) and now these groups, who never wanted democracy in the first place, turn against us and have free reign to push their murderous agenda because there is no stable government to stop them? And ironically, we were the ones who armed them in the first place!

When are we going to learn that toppling governments in the name of democracy always creates a vacuum that almost always gets filled by radicals who never want democracy in the first place?:nono

 

[Kieran]

Yeah, there's no mandate for democracy, and it seems to be an endless Islam civil war, which the west interferes in, often with good intentions, often without. I think with ISIS, the west sees a genuine threat to its own interests, but how to cope with this, that's another thing...

 

[nehmeth]

^^^
That would fall under "probably never" Murat.

 

[JesuslookslikeBorg]

its deja vu all over again.

Islamic state / ISIS after seemingly popping up out of nowhere a few months ago are now worrying global leaders. and they want the west to engage in a ground war again.

 

[Kieran]

Yeah, the speed of ISIS growth is staggering, but only if we ignore the funding they got from shady cronies. The Pope has recently said that we're in the midst of a "piecemeal third world war" and it's difficult to argue with him on this...

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

Right now, we are planning to arm certain "rebels" that will fight against ISIS. That's because those rebels are very democratic, human rights respecting folks....

 

[Kieran]

It's the bizarre cycle, Murat. What would ou suggest, to stop ISIS?

 

[shawnbm]

And today we learn of the arrest of 15 ISIS collaborators and sympathizers in about as far away a place from the Levant there is--Australia. Their criminal and terrorist plot? To RANDOMLY select folks in Australia to be kidnapped, beheaded and wrapped in an Islamic State flag to be found by whomever. If they can get into Australia, they can get into the EU and the USA and try and do the same thing. The plan was deemed highly credible and steps had been taken to effectuate it. This group and its proliferation via YouTube and other internet sites is a plague and a vicious one at that. (A word to britbox--please be careful Down Under mate. We are praying for all of you).

There was another one of these terrorists/jihadists (a "naturalized USA citizen" from YEMEN!!!!) who was arrested in Rochester, New York the other day (he ran a convenience store there) for planning to assist ISIS by planning attacks on US military personnel upon their arrival in the States. He had weapons, silencers and had (stupidly) gone on his social media sites to try and incite others to the cause. What in the world are things coming to these days?!?!?!?!?!?!

 

[the AntiPusher]

It shows that the Good Lord's work is never done.. These radicals are totally being controlled by a very Evil and demonic spirit. God help Us all.

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

It's the bizarre cycle, Murat. What would ou suggest, to stop ISIS?

That is the problem,because you are asking me the question NOW, which is too late...If I could go back in time, I would tell you to NOT go into Iraq under false pretences, and NOT take out Saddam who was able to keep Sunnis , Shi'as and Kurds all in check.

Really though, I would recommend not using any groups against Isis, who are probably as bad as Isis themselves. If you are going to do something, do it yourself.

 

[Kieran]

It's the bizarre cycle, Murat. What would ou suggest, to stop ISIS?

That is the problem,because you are asking me the question NOW, which is too late...If I could go back in time, I would tell you to NOT go into Iraq under false pretences, and NOT take out Saddam who was able to keep Sunnis , Shi'as and Kurds all in check.

Really though, I would recommend not using any groups against Isis, who are probably as bad as Isis themselves. If you are going to do something, do it yourself.

Well, the reason I'm asking now is because the situation is happening now!

"Do it yourself" seems to be part of the problem, isn't it? The west goes in and obliterates ISIS, but the problem doesn't vanish. There's a Catch 22 here: do nothing and we have the nightmare scenario of ISIS controlling increasing swathes of the Middle East, and do something and you still have ISIS developing their own brand of disgruntled lunatic who wants to behead people in Australia.

I think the Pope was correct: there's a piecemeal third world war going on, but it's nothing like the last two. The enemy could be living right next door to you. I don't personally know what the solution in the Middle East is, because that region has been volatile for centuries. Maybe the rats running loose now, where before they were kept in a box by bigger rats, but still, as a region it's fairly volatile and something either has to give - or be done about it.

How come we never hear of the UN these days, by the way? That seems to be totally impotent, as an organisation...

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

49 Turkish Consulate workers that were held hostage by ISIS for 101 days have been released and returned to Turkey. I am happy for them and their families. It was rough for the families, seeing the horrific videos and all...

 

[calitennis127]

Does anybody else have a really strong sense of De Ja Vu, or is it just me?

Once again we have supported groups of people to topple down stable governments ( I am not arguing they were democracies or dictatorships...the fact is they were stable. Gadaffi, Saddam, Esad, they might not be poster boys for democracy, but they kept the radical groups in check, albeit with an iron fist) and now these groups, who never wanted democracy in the first place, turn against us and have free reign to push their murderous agenda because there is no stable government to stop them? And ironically, we were the ones who armed them in the first place!

When are we going to learn that toppling governments in the name of democracy always creates a vacuum that almost always gets filled by radicals who never want democracy in the first place?:nono

The problem starts with ourselves, Murat. You are spot on, but as long as Westerners continue to believe in the fallacious religion of "democracy" and "equality" instead of orthodox, intelligent Christianity, they are doomed to be utter buffoons in conducting foreign policy and most other policies.

 

[calitennis127]

What is actually hilarious about this whole episode is to see the political left contradict itself, yet again. On the one hand, the "left" passionately advocates multiculturalism and celebrates everything that is non-Western (multiculturalism is no more than a code word for disconnecting with lofty Western traditions in education and culture and then pretending to be cosmopolitan because you took a class at NYU on African lesbianism and marched in a parade to fight world hunger or end corporate greed), but then on the other hand, when the left is faced with the reality of Islamic fundamentalists imitating their prophet, they are horrified and mystified and declare that these "extremists" must be stopped.

This all shows just how much of a fraud contemporary Western education is. It gives hordes of uneducated clowns cheap diplomas and tells them that they are educated because they have been trained to detest sexism and homophobia, while at the same time they have learned absolutely nothing about anything in the world.

"We should accept Islam and embrace it in our societies as cultural enrichment! Yay!" And then when they see an interview with Anjem Choudary or take a look at ISIS's work, they are astounded that those people "could feel that way".

 

[calitennis127]

And today we learn of the arrest of 15 ISIS collaborators and sympathizers in about as far away a place from the Levant there is--Australia. Their criminal and terrorist plot? To RANDOMLY select folks in Australia to be kidnapped, beheaded and wrapped in an Islamic State flag to be found by whomever. If they can get into Australia, they can get into the EU and the USA and try and do the same thing. The plan was deemed highly credible and steps had been taken to effectuate it. This group and its proliferation via YouTube and other internet sites is a plague and a vicious one at that. (A word to britbox--please be careful Down Under mate. We are praying for all of you).

There was another one of these terrorists/jihadists (a "naturalized USA citizen" from YEMEN!!!!) who was arrested in Rochester, New York the other day (he ran a convenience store there) for planning to assist ISIS by planning attacks on US military personnel upon their arrival in the States. He had weapons, silencers and had (stupidly) gone on his social media sites to try and incite others to the cause. What in the world are things coming to these days?!?!?!?!?!?!

Excellent post - this is the real terrorist threat. It comes from the Islamic enclave communities in the West that simply drain welfare and whine and complain constantly about how they are oppressed. It doesn't matter how many ISIS fighters the U.S. kills as long as these openly subversive communities are allowed to function in North America, Britain, and France.

The morons in our government and media seem to forget that 9/11 only happened because 19 Middle Easterners, including 15 Saudis, had passports to enter the United States and were then sheltered by the American Muslim community for months before pulling off the attack. 9/11 had absolutely nothing to do with Saddam Hussein, or the Iranian regime, or Bashir Al-Assad not allowing the Muslim Brotherhood a stake in the Syrian political process.

If the U.S. rigorously profiled Muslim immigrants and only allowed the most Westernized and respectable of them into the country, and if the U.S. stopped meddling in the affairs of hopeless Muslim countries where we cannot resolve anything, then Islamic terrorism would cease to be a problem - and Fox News wouldn't know what to do with itself.

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

If only it was that simple Cali...
The biggest problem that Muslims have , for some time now, has been the presence of "westerners" in places they deem holy, and of course, the issue of Israel/Palestine.

I grew up in a Muslim country and I have not once met or heard anyone who believed in the "virgins for martyrdom " myth and people usually just went on with their lives, work and all...But these exteremists, who are gaining more power now and getting bolder, have the mindset that for each innocent Palestinian child killed, 10 suicide bombers will be born...If you do the math just from the last conflict, you can see that the issuse is much more than profiling the Muslims that enter the States.


In their eyes, US lost its credibility as an honest broker long time ago... Since US will never stop supporting Israel %100, what do you do?

 

[brokenshoelace]

What is actually hilarious about this whole episode is to see the political left contradict itself, yet again. On the one hand, the "left" passionately advocates multiculturalism and celebrates everything that is non-Western (multiculturalism is no more than a code word for disconnecting with lofty Western traditions in education and culture and then pretending to be cosmopolitan because you took a class at NYU on African lesbianism and marched in a parade to fight world hunger or end corporate greed), but then on the other hand, when the left is faced with the reality of Islamic fundamentalists imitating their prophet, they are horrified and mystified and declare that these "extremists" must be stopped.

This all shows just how much of a fraud contemporary Western education is. It gives hordes of uneducated clowns cheap diplomas and tells them that they are educated because they have been trained to detest sexism and homophobia, while at the same time they have learned absolutely nothing about anything in the world.

"We should accept Islam and embrace it in our societies as cultural enrichment! Yay!" And then when they see an interview with Anjem Choudary or take a look at ISIS's work, they are astounded that those people "could feel that way".

You do know that 80% of ISIS victims are actually Muslims right? Including SUNNI Muslims. ISIS don't discriminate in killing. They basically kill anyone who isn't them.

Of course, there's a crappy culture of Jihad within Islam. That much is undeniable. But if you think ISIS are just "imitating the prophet" then you didn't know much about Mohammed (show me where he ordered the beheadings of children or where he ordered mass genocide of Muslims...or any other sect for that matter), and you certainly don't know much about ISIS. ISIS are an especially special (yes I said especially special) kind of shi*ty.

I think people who think there just another Qaeda are mistaken. They are far far worse. If you don't live in the Middle East, perhaps it is hard to grasp the reality of the threat posed by ISIS. The sectarian extermination they're set out on doing is beyond words.

But yeah no, smart orthodox Christianity is the answer to everything.

 

[brokenshoelace]

The morons in our government and media seem to forget that 9/11 only happened because 19 Middle Easterners, including 15 Saudis, had passports to enter the United States and were then sheltered by the American Muslim community for months before pulling off the attack.

:laydownlaughing

 

[calitennis127]

If only it was that simple Cali...
The biggest problem that Muslims have , for some time now, has been the presence of "westerners" in places they deem holy, and of course, the issue of Israel/Palestine.

I grew up in a Muslim country and I have not once met or heard anyone who believed in the "virgins for martyrdom " myth and people usually just went on with their lives, work and all...But these exteremists, who are gaining more power now and getting bolder, have the mindset that for each innocent Palestinian child killed, 10 suicide bombers will be born...If you do the math just from the last conflict, you can see that the issuse is much more than profiling the Muslims that enter the States.


In their eyes, US lost its credibility as an honest broker long time ago... Since US will never stop supporting Israel %100, what do you do?

Well, you are absolutely right about America's unfailing, blind support for Israel. America is entirely under the sway of foreign activist lobbies such as AIPAC. I completely agree with Michael Scheuer that this alliance with Israel gains the United States nothing but enemies in the Arab and Islamic world.

 

[calitennis127]

The morons in our government and media seem to forget that 9/11 only happened because 19 Middle Easterners, including 15 Saudis, had passports to enter the United States and were then sheltered by the American Muslim community for months before pulling off the attack.

:laydownlaughing

You can lay down laughing all you want, but this is simply the truth. If you read about the individual hijackers and their time spent in the U.S. before perpetrating the attacks, there were multiple imams at multiple American mosques (most notably one in Virginia) that were aware of their intentions and provided nothing but spiritual support to them.