Is Nadal still undefeated in GS when not injured?

[StantheMan]

^But that MTO came too early to be merely an excuse. I don't really understand what you're trying to say. Nadal has suffered injuries, but he has also won 13 majors. And 26 MS 1000s. By any estimation, he's a world class player. He suffers injuries maybe more that the other top 4, but not so many as to prevent him from beating the field. Are we to forget all the retirements from Djokovic? And the periods when we were asked to remember Federer's mono, or back issues? Not to mention all the times that top guys like Tsonga, Monfils, and Del Potro were absent with injury issues. Injury is part of sport. Many have been felled by it. You seem to want to make an issue of Nadal having injuries when he didn't win. But what does that tell us? He's also been healthy enough to win a lot. It seems a puny effort, to me, at diminishing a legacy.

I think it's the opposite actually. I'm actually helping Nadal's legacy. How many players can boast that they are undefeated in GSs when 100% healthy? Only Nadal can. Haha.

 

[Moxie]

^And I'm sure that's your intention. No player is usually 100% anything…either top form or 100% fit. They just have to be closer to 100% than the rest of the field, and the last man standing. And Nadal has been, as Federer has been, more often than most.

 

[Front242]

^But that MTO came too early to be merely an excuse. I don't really understand what you're trying to say. Nadal has suffered injuries, but he has also won 13 majors. And 26 MS 1000s. By any estimation, he's a world class player. He suffers injuries maybe more that the other top 4, but not so many as to prevent him from beating the field. Are we to forget all the retirements from Djokovic? And the periods when we were asked to remember Federer's mono, or back issues? Not to mention all the times that top guys like Tsonga, Monfils, and Del Potro were absent with injury issues. Injury is part of sport. Many have been felled by it. You seem to want to make an issue of Nadal having injuries when he didn't win. But what does that tell us? He's also been healthy enough to win a lot. It seems a puny effort, to me, at diminishing a legacy.

Dunno if you're replying to me or StantheMan but either way I'll reply. It's not hard to understand. In this year's final he was clearly injured but there have been very dubious MTOs in the past where he merely did it to break the opponent's rhythm 'cos he was losing and once play resumed he returned to running round like a gazelle. First 2 rounds of Wimbledon 2010 being prime examples. At least this time it was legit.

 

[Moxie]

^But that MTO came too early to be merely an excuse. I don't really understand what you're trying to say. Nadal has suffered injuries, but he has also won 13 majors. And 26 MS 1000s. By any estimation, he's a world class player. He suffers injuries maybe more that the other top 4, but not so many as to prevent him from beating the field. Are we to forget all the retirements from Djokovic? And the periods when we were asked to remember Federer's mono, or back issues? Not to mention all the times that top guys like Tsonga, Monfils, and Del Potro were absent with injury issues. Injury is part of sport. Many have been felled by it. You seem to want to make an issue of Nadal having injuries when he didn't win. But what does that tell us? He's also been healthy enough to win a lot. It seems a puny effort, to me, at diminishing a legacy.

Dunno if you're replying to me or StantheMan but either way I'll reply. It's not hard to understand. In this year's final he was clearly injured but there have been very dubious MTOs in the past where he merely did it to break the opponent's rhythm 'cos he was losing and once play resumed he returned to running round like a gazelle. First 2 rounds of Wimbledon 2010 being prime examples. At least this time it was legit.

Sorry, I thought it was clear I was replying to Stantheman. But ok, Front. It's 2 different things, isn't it? Everyone's dancing around the gripes without describing them:

1.) If Nadal doesn't win at a Major, is there an excuse?

2.) Does Nadal misuse the MTO for gamesmanship reasons?

#2 wasn't in there, per se, until you inserted it, Front, but the implication was there, I suppose. That is the never-ending song from the Nadal detractors.

At least if we can get to the nut of the complaint, we can debate it.

 

[Front242]

^But that MTO came too early to be merely an excuse. I don't really understand what you're trying to say. Nadal has suffered injuries, but he has also won 13 majors. And 26 MS 1000s. By any estimation, he's a world class player. He suffers injuries maybe more that the other top 4, but not so many as to prevent him from beating the field. Are we to forget all the retirements from Djokovic? And the periods when we were asked to remember Federer's mono, or back issues? Not to mention all the times that top guys like Tsonga, Monfils, and Del Potro were absent with injury issues. Injury is part of sport. Many have been felled by it. You seem to want to make an issue of Nadal having injuries when he didn't win. But what does that tell us? He's also been healthy enough to win a lot. It seems a puny effort, to me, at diminishing a legacy.

Dunno if you're replying to me or StantheMan but either way I'll reply. It's not hard to understand. In this year's final he was clearly injured but there have been very dubious MTOs in the past where he merely did it to break the opponent's rhythm 'cos he was losing and once play resumed he returned to running round like a gazelle. First 2 rounds of Wimbledon 2010 being prime examples. At least this time it was legit.

Sorry, I thought it was clear I was replying to Stantheman. But ok, Front. It's 2 different things, isn't it? Everyone's dancing around the gripes without describing them:

1.) If Nadal doesn't win at a Major, is there an excuse?

2.) Does Nadal misuse the MTO for gamesmanship reasons?

#2 wasn't in there, per se, until you inserted it, Front, but the implication was there, I suppose. That is the never-ending song from the Nadal detractors.

At least if we can get to the nut of the complaint, we can debate it.

First line of your post above I presumed was in reply to my post before it about his MTO last Sunday obviously being legit this time but, yes, imo and frankly many others he has abused MTOs in the past when he was losing and when he had no apparent movement issues whatsoever. Play resumes, he's still running around like the energizer bunny and meanwhile the opponent has been thrown off, loses their momentum, Nadal storms ahead and wins as a result but was in a losing position prior to it. I've even watched matches with friends who barely watch tennis except maybe the Wimbledon final and they remarked that it seemed ridiculous as he was running around perfectly fine and the other guy is made to wait while he gets treated for seemingly nothing and then gets back level on the scoreboard, takes all his opponent's momentum away and wins.

Anyway, I'm off to bed but at least it's been a while since he's done this but there's no doubt in my mind he has abused the rule. Against Haase and Petzschner in particular at Wimbledon 2010 it was ridiculous. It's the umpire's fault at the end of the day for allowing it imo.

http://anygivensurface.wordpress.com/2010/06/27/petzschner-unhappy-with-nadals-medical-time-out/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/tennis/8765205.stm

 

[Moxie]

^But that MTO came too early to be merely an excuse. I don't really understand what you're trying to say. Nadal has suffered injuries, but he has also won 13 majors. And 26 MS 1000s. By any estimation, he's a world class player. He suffers injuries maybe more that the other top 4, but not so many as to prevent him from beating the field. Are we to forget all the retirements from Djokovic? And the periods when we were asked to remember Federer's mono, or back issues? Not to mention all the times that top guys like Tsonga, Monfils, and Del Potro were absent with injury issues. Injury is part of sport. Many have been felled by it. You seem to want to make an issue of Nadal having injuries when he didn't win. But what does that tell us? He's also been healthy enough to win a lot. It seems a puny effort, to me, at diminishing a legacy.

Dunno if you're replying to me or StantheMan but either way I'll reply. It's not hard to understand. In this year's final he was clearly injured but there have been very dubious MTOs in the past where he merely did it to break the opponent's rhythm 'cos he was losing and once play resumed he returned to running round like a gazelle. First 2 rounds of Wimbledon 2010 being prime examples. At least this time it was legit.

Sorry, I thought it was clear I was replying to Stantheman. But ok, Front. It's 2 different things, isn't it? Everyone's dancing around the gripes without describing them:

1.) If Nadal doesn't win at a Major, is there an excuse?

2.) Does Nadal misuse the MTO for gamesmanship reasons?

#2 wasn't in there, per se, until you inserted it, Front, but the implication was there, I suppose. That is the never-ending song from the Nadal detractors.

At least if we can get to the nut of the complaint, we can debate it.

First line of your post above I presumed was in reply to my post before it about his MTO last Sunday obviously being legit this time but, yes, imo and frankly many others he has abused MTOs in the past when he was losing and when he had no apparent movement issues whatsoever. Play resumes, he's still running around like the energizer bunny and meanwhile the opponent has been thrown off, loses their momentum, Nadal storms ahead and wins as a result but was in a losing position prior to it. I've even watched matches with friends who barely watch tennis except maybe the Wimbledon final and they remarked that it seemed ridiculous as he was running around perfectly fine and the other guy is made to wait while he gets treated for seemingly nothing and then gets back level on the scoreboard, takes all his opponent's momentum away and wins.

Anyway, I'm off to bed but at least it's been a while since he's done this but there's no doubt in my mind he has abused the rule. Against Haase and Petzschner in particular at Wimbledon 2010 it was ridiculous. It's the umpire's fault at the end of the day for allowing it imo.

http://anygivensurface.wordpress.com/2010/06/27/petzschner-unhappy-with-nadals-medical-time-out/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/tennis/8765205.stm

I have to go to bed, too. I'll leave this for your morning coffee.

I will give you that the MTOs when Nadal seemed to wrest victory from defeat in those matches seem spurious, looked at from one angle. If you want me to say that he called for the trainer as a last resort…maybe he did. I see why it appears that way. You rarely call for the trainer when momentum is on your side, however. You can also appreciate that Nadal was coming back to a tournament that he'd had to skip the year before, due to injury. I would remind you that would be why he might have been cautious. Anyway, that's one tournament, with Nadal coming back from an injury. Is all the rest of this caustic reaction towards him based on that? The notion of his "antics?" The perception that he "always" uses a MTO as a tactic? IMO, that clearly gets over-stated. What other clear examples are there?

Nadal had a back issue in the AO final this year. Why was there an ugly hue and cry over his MTO, as if it might have been it tactic, since it clearly wasn't? I think it bears separating the injury-issues that Nadal has had, from the very few questionable MTOs that he's called for, which seem inflated and conflated in the minds of those who would prefer to see them so. I really think that it's folks wanting to call him unsportsmanlike, when they're not adequately separating one event from another. That's where this thread comes from, imo.

 

[Busted]

2014 AO Bad Back
2013 Wim Bad Knee
2012 Wim Bad Knee
2012 AO Bad Knee
2011 USO Bad Foot
2011 Wim Bad Foot
2011 AO Hamstring
2010 AO Bad Knee
2009 USO Abdominal
2009 FO Knee
2008 USO Exhaustion
2008 AO Exhaustion + Tsonga was not playing at his "real level"
2007 USO Knee
2007 Wim Knee
2007 AO Leg
2006 USO Left Foot
2006 Wimb Foot
2005 USO Abdomen

The list goes on and on. Rafa is definitely GOAT. Still undefeated in GS when at 100% physical condition.

ROTFLMAO!!! Sad but true. People often make fun of Andy Murray and his on-court injury\fake injury dramas but he's got nothing on Ye Ole Butt Digger. I thought he was going to bust out the crocodile tears when he came back from his injury time out. Plus, how disrepectful of Stan was that crap? If it's his back - why did he leave the court? And then the umpire was too chicken caca to call the physio and get an explanation for Stan like he was supposed to. If it had been anyone but the big 4 players they'd never have allowed Nadal to leave the court for the assessment.

Anyway - I'm glad Nadal lost. Once he beat Roger he thought had #14 because Stan had never even taken a set off of him in 13 previous matches. I hope this teaches Butt Digger a lesson - passing Roger's 17 Slams ain't going to be easy. He'd better hope they don't stop having the French Open or he's never going to get there. That's the only time he doesn't pull the old "My back...my knee...my shin...by groin...my ab...my butt..." routine. :nono But, let's all wait and see - he'll be fine by clay court season because he always is...and then we'll have to hear him whine some more about hard courts being too hard on his body. He's always got the option of NOT playing hard court tourneys but then that means he'd never pass Roger - and that's all he wants in the world - to be the GOAT. I don't care how many Slams he wins - he'll never be the GOAT in my book. His numbers, consistency day-in and day-out remaing injury free and making every quarter and semi for years at stretch just don't hold water. He probably has to turn on every light in the house if he goes to the bathroom in the middle of the night just to make sure he doesn't break his leg. Dude is awfully fragile for someone so muscle-bound. :lolz: Actually, maybe that's his problem. Those muscles are too tight and pull\tear for too easy.

 

[brokenshoelace]

2014 AO Bad Back
2013 Wim Bad Knee
2012 Wim Bad Knee
2012 AO Bad Knee
2011 USO Bad Foot
2011 Wim Bad Foot
2011 AO Hamstring
2010 AO Bad Knee
2009 USO Abdominal
2009 FO Knee
2008 USO Exhaustion
2008 AO Exhaustion + Tsonga was not playing at his "real level"
2007 USO Knee
2007 Wim Knee
2007 AO Leg
2006 USO Left Foot
2006 Wimb Foot
2005 USO Abdomen

The list goes on and on. Rafa is definitely GOAT. Still undefeated in GS when at 100% physical condition.

ROTFLMAO!!! Sad but true. People often make fun of Andy Murray and his on-court injury\fake injury dramas but he's got nothing on Ye Ole Butt Digger. I thought he was going to bust out the crocodile tears when he came back from his injury time out. Plus, how disrepectful of Stan was that crap? If it's his back - why did he leave the court? And then the umpire was too chicken caca to call the physio and get an explanation for Stan like he was supposed to. If it had been anyone but the big 4 players they'd never have allowed Nadal to leave the court for the assessment.

Anyway - I'm glad Nadal lost. Once he beat Roger he thought he #14 because Stan had never even taken a set off of him in 13 previous matches. I hope this teaches Butt Digger a lesson - passing Roger's 17 Slams ain't going to be easy. He'd better hope they don't stop having the French Open or he's never going to get there. That's the only time he doesn't pull the old "My back...my knee...my shin...by groin...my ab...my butt..." routine. :nono But, let's all wait and see - he'll be fine by clay court season because he always is...and then we'll have to hear him whine some more about hard courts being too hard on his body. He's always got the option of NOT playing hard court tourneys but then that means he'd never pass Roger - and that's all he wants in the world - to be the GOAT. I don't care how many Slams he wins - he'll never be the GOAT in my book. His numbers, consistency day-in and day-out remaing injury free and making every quarter and semi for years at stretch just don't hold water. He probably has to turn on every light in the house if he goes to the bathroom in the middle of the night just to make sure he doesn't break his leg. Dude is awfully fragile for someone so muscle-bound. :lolz: Actually, maybe that's his problem. Those muscles are too tight and pull\tear for too easy.

Word of advice re: trolling:

Don't make multiple accounts. Unless you're a different account in which case...we're really unlucky.

 

[Busted]

AO 2012.

He went on for over six hours, gave it his all, and just fell short. Everyone knew he was not injured during that match.

I guess that answers your question.

Unfortunately you are incorrect. Rafael was nursing a knee injury through out AO 2012 and suffering from excessive pain he claims.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/tennis/australianopen/9017525/Australian-Open-2012-Rafael-Nadal-hit-by-excessive-knee-pain-on-eve-of-grand-slam-but-strolls-into-second-round.html


Also suffering from a pinched tendon on his right knee.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2012/jan/28/novak-djokovic-rafael-nadal-australian-open

I remember that. Nadal was saying his knees hurt and then he was whining because Roger wouldn't support the 2-year ranking system that Nadal wanted so Nadal threw a hissy fit and left the player's council. Right now Roger could greatly benefit from a 2-year ranking system but he didn't think it was fair to the lower ranked players, making it too hard for them to make a move with 1 big tourney win (See: Stan going from 8 to 3) but it would have protected Butt-Digger during his many injuries. Darn that Roger for not being a selfish bastard! Now Nadal is #1 again - and injured again. I wonder if he's still trying force that feudal system on the lower-ranked guys or just given up? Anybody know?

 

[Busted]

^But that MTO came too early to be merely an excuse. I don't really understand what you're trying to say. Nadal has suffered injuries, but he has also won 13 majors. And 26 MS 1000s. By any estimation, he's a world class player. He suffers injuries maybe more that the other top 4, but not so many as to prevent him from beating the field. Are we to forget all the retirements from Djokovic? And the periods when we were asked to remember Federer's mono, or back issues? Not to mention all the times that top guys like Tsonga, Monfils, and Del Potro were absent with injury issues. Injury is part of sport. Many have been felled by it. You seem to want to make an issue of Nadal having injuries when he didn't win. But what does that tell us? He's also been healthy enough to win a lot. It seems a puny effort, to me, at diminishing a legacy.

Dunno if you're replying to me or StantheMan but either way I'll reply. It's not hard to understand. In this year's final he was clearly injured but there have been very dubious MTOs in the past where he merely did it to break the opponent's rhythm 'cos he was losing and once play resumed he returned to running round like a gazelle. First 2 rounds of Wimbledon 2010 being prime examples. At least this time it was legit.

LOL. Too bad Nadal's got too much testosterone or else he could play on the women's tour. They ALL do that MTO\bathroom break crap on the women's tour when they're losing.

 

[Busted]

2014 AO Bad Back
2013 Wim Bad Knee
2012 Wim Bad Knee
2012 AO Bad Knee
2011 USO Bad Foot
2011 Wim Bad Foot
2011 AO Hamstring
2010 AO Bad Knee
2009 USO Abdominal
2009 FO Knee
2008 USO Exhaustion
2008 AO Exhaustion + Tsonga was not playing at his "real level"
2007 USO Knee
2007 Wim Knee
2007 AO Leg
2006 USO Left Foot
2006 Wimb Foot
2005 USO Abdomen

The list goes on and on. Rafa is definitely GOAT. Still undefeated in GS when at 100% physical condition.

ROTFLMAO!!! Sad but true. People often make fun of Andy Murray and his on-court injury\fake injury dramas but he's got nothing on Ye Ole Butt Digger. I thought he was going to bust out the crocodile tears when he came back from his injury time out. Plus, how disrepectful of Stan was that crap? If it's his back - why did he leave the court? And then the umpire was too chicken caca to call the physio and get an explanation for Stan like he was supposed to. If it had been anyone but the big 4 players they'd never have allowed Nadal to leave the court for the assessment.

Anyway - I'm glad Nadal lost. Once he beat Roger he thought he #14 because Stan had never even taken a set off of him in 13 previous matches. I hope this teaches Butt Digger a lesson - passing Roger's 17 Slams ain't going to be easy. He'd better hope they don't stop having the French Open or he's never going to get there. That's the only time he doesn't pull the old "My back...my knee...my shin...by groin...my ab...my butt..." routine. :nono But, let's all wait and see - he'll be fine by clay court season because he always is...and then we'll have to hear him whine some more about hard courts being too hard on his body. He's always got the option of NOT playing hard court tourneys but then that means he'd never pass Roger - and that's all he wants in the world - to be the GOAT. I don't care how many Slams he wins - he'll never be the GOAT in my book. His numbers, consistency day-in and day-out remaing injury free and making every quarter and semi for years at stretch just don't hold water. He probably has to turn on every light in the house if he goes to the bathroom in the middle of the night just to make sure he doesn't break his leg. Dude is awfully fragile for someone so muscle-bound. :lolz: Actually, maybe that's his problem. Those muscles are too tight and pull\tear for too easy.

Word of advice re: trolling:

Don't make multiple accounts. Unless you're a different account in which case...we're really unlucky.

First of all - I only have 1 account. Secondly, I don't post here a lot, so does that mean that making fun of Butt Digger makes me a troll? Whatever, dude. Sorry but the welcome FAQ I got from the admin didn't say that I have to kiss Butt Digger's ass to post on this site. Is there to be no snark in tennis just as there's no crying baseball? :laydownlaughing

 

[Kieran]

Ah the old MTO Myth.

Would we call that an Urban Myth, or just Received Wisdom?

Seems like if something's repeated often enough, there's peeps who think it's true. I remember well the MTO against del Potro at Wimbledon, called for just after he reached set point. Purely evil tactics! And the one against Roger at Wimbledon in 2007, he's up 4-0, causing Roger to first time screech the immortal phrase, "this is killing me!", then Rafa called for an MTO, which helped Roger recover his composure and retain his title.

It's just Fedfan wishful thinking to accuse Rafa - and then pass these allegations off as fact.

What do we know? Well, we know that Rafa is the most injury prone of the top tier players. We know he's played slams with busted knees, and skipped majors for the same reason. So we know that his injuries have impacted negatively on his career. They've impacted negatively on his chances to win majors, never more starkly than last Sunday.

We know he must be acutely aware of of his body and its frailties, and we know that he's asked for MTO's. He gets a lot of injuries, remember? He even plays with bad injuries, remember?

And he gets asked a lot about injuries - because they're such a huge impact on his career.

What else?

Oh yeah, the Fedfans try trivialise his injuries and also, they accuse him of making them up and lying, and cheating because of them. We saw that even among good posters, and the Stan match has also leaked in a sudden shipment of hilarious trolls, who are just making the gloating more visible.

What else do we know?

It's raining in Dublin, that's all you need to know for now...

 

[TsarMatt]

^But that MTO came too early to be merely an excuse. I don't really understand what you're trying to say. Nadal has suffered injuries, but he has also won 13 majors. And 26 MS 1000s. By any estimation, he's a world class player. He suffers injuries maybe more that the other top 4, but not so many as to prevent him from beating the field. Are we to forget all the retirements from Djokovic? And the periods when we were asked to remember Federer's mono, or back issues? Not to mention all the times that top guys like Tsonga, Monfils, and Del Potro were absent with injury issues. Injury is part of sport. Many have been felled by it. You seem to want to make an issue of Nadal having injuries when he didn't win. But what does that tell us? He's also been healthy enough to win a lot. It seems a puny effort, to me, at diminishing a legacy.

Dunno if you're replying to me or StantheMan but either way I'll reply. It's not hard to understand. In this year's final he was clearly injured but there have been very dubious MTOs in the past where he merely did it to break the opponent's rhythm 'cos he was losing and once play resumed he returned to running round like a gazelle. First 2 rounds of Wimbledon 2010 being prime examples. At least this time it was legit.

LOL. Too bad Nadal's got too much testosterone or else he could play on the women's tour. They ALL do that MTO\bathroom break crap on the women's tour when they're losing.

 

[StantheMan]

Is Nadal implying he has 2? Sometimes, he acts like he doesn't even have 1.

 

[Federberg]

I'm not sure causality has ever been established. Does his camp let us know about his injuries post defeats because the media ask? Or do they tell the media by way of explaining away the losses. Unless you're media with firsthand experience, please don't bother answering that. Camps are too entrenched to accept "opinions"

I think we can all make our own judgements regarding MTO's. While my player is not really known for them, I'm happy to call him out if I think he's done something else wrong. I recall Shanghai against Murray a few years ago when DarthFed and I questioned his attempt to get the roof closed. It may be that Rafa-fans genuinely can't see Rafa ever doing anything wrong, if that's the case so be it. But the ones taken in Wimbledon 2010, particularly against Petzschner were a bit low class in my view. Listen.. these players don't have to be saints... after Edberg and Federer, my next favourite player was the Mac. Can you imagine if a fan of his couldn't acknowledge his faults? How retarded would that be?? That's all I ask I suppose. Short of outright cheating, if a player does wrong.. why not acknowledge it. It really doesn't diminish them. Frankly the more you guys refuse to admit his flaws the more deluded the rest of us think you are..

Re: the thread... while I think it's in poor taste to raise this issue immediately after a match where clearly Rafa was impaired, I do feel that there is an ongoing narrative with Rafa and his camp (please note.. I use the word "feeling") that his losses can generally be explained away by injuries. Please don't say that he's the first one to say that his losses weren't because of injury. We're all adults, let's not be that naive

 

[Kieran]

It may be that Rafa-fans genuinely can't see Rafa ever doing anything wrong, if that's the case so be it. But the ones taken in Wimbledon 2010, particularly against Petzschner were a bit low class in my view. Listen.. these players don't have to be saints... after Edberg and Federer, my next favourite player was the Mac. Can you imagine if a fan of his couldn't acknowledge his faults? How retarded would that be?? That's all I ask I suppose. Short of outright cheating, if a player does wrong.. why not acknowledge it. It really doesn't diminish them. Frankly the more you guys refuse to admit his flaws the more deluded the rest of us think you are..

It's irrelevant who thinks who is delusional.

The fact is known, Rafa has taken MTO's at times when he was in control of sets - and it didn't suit him.

And he's taken them at other times, when it appears opportunistic.

And at other times, when it was neither.

Appearances can be deceptive, and just because it suits your book to criticise him for MTO's on some occasions - and not on others - doesn't mean he's doing anything untoward or "low class." Or that his fans are delusional.

We do admit his flaws, his poor scheduling, his taking too long between points, his wedgies, his bumping into Rosil, but to basically call him a cheat and a liar just because people don't like the guy? That's all irrelevant too. Nobody has any proof whatsoever that MTO's taken by Nadal weren't genuine.

None.

And given his terrible record with injuries, does anyone really think he'd be so "low class" as to tempt fate this way? You'd want to prove it to me first, not just come armed with an opinion, which by the way, this all usually is...

EDIT: and by the way, I really hate the modern misuse of the word "retarded". I'm not getting at you here, because it's commonly and casually used, but it's a terrible development of language...

 

[Federberg]

It may be that Rafa-fans genuinely can't see Rafa ever doing anything wrong, if that's the case so be it. But the ones taken in Wimbledon 2010, particularly against Petzschner were a bit low class in my view. Listen.. these players don't have to be saints... after Edberg and Federer, my next favourite player was the Mac. Can you imagine if a fan of his couldn't acknowledge his faults? How retarded would that be?? That's all I ask I suppose. Short of outright cheating, if a player does wrong.. why not acknowledge it. It really doesn't diminish them. Frankly the more you guys refuse to admit his flaws the more deluded the rest of us think you are..

It's irrelevant who thinks who is delusional.

The fact is known, Rafa has taken MTO's at times when he was in control of sets - and it didn't suit him.

And he's taken them at other times, when it appears opportunistic.

And at other times, when it was neither.

Appearances can be deceptive, and just because it suits your book to criticise him for MTO's on some occasions - and not on others - doesn't mean he's doing anything untoward or "low class." Or that his fans are delusional.

We do admit his flaws, his poor scheduling, his taking too long between points, his wedgies, his bumping into Rosil, but to basically call him a cheat and a liar just because people don't like the guy? That's all irrelevant too. Nobody has any proof whatsoever that MTO's taken by Nadal weren't genuine.

None.

And given his terrible record with injuries, does anyone really think he'd be so "low class" as to tempt fate this way? You'd want to prove it to me first, not just come armed with an opinion, which by the way, this all usually is...

EDIT: and by the way, I really hate the modern misuse of the word "retarded". I'm not getting at you here, because it's commonly and casually used, but it's a terrible development of language...

Not sure who you're accusing of calling him a cheat and liar... he does what he can to win. On some level I respect that. I don't admire it.. but I respect it. None of us have much proof about a lot of the stuff we discuss on these boards, as you say.. these are opinions. So your challenge for proof seems a bit... odd... and a wee bit defensive.. ah well! Indeed this whole activity is irrelevant, it's not going to affect how the players play. It's opinions is what it is!

Anyway.. permit me to smile.. when you say you folks admit his flaws :snigger

 

[Kieran]

Not sure who you're accusing of calling him a cheat and liar... he does what he can to win. On some level I respect that. I don't admire it.. but I respect it. None of us have much proof about a lot of the stuff we discuss on these boards, as you say.. these are opinions. So your challenge for proof seems a bit... odd... and a wee bit defensive.. ah well! Indeed this whole activity is irrelevant, it's not going to affect how the players play. It's opinions is what it is!

Anyway.. permit me to smile.. when you say you folks admit his flaws :snigger

Well, if he's taking opportunistic MTO's that he doesn't need, but which are designed to upset his opponent, that's lying, no?

And cheating.

Or is it something different?

To ask for proof is the least I can do when this old tripe keeps getting passed off as fact. Especially when the inconvenient MTO's are routinely ignored.

Usually by Fedfans like yourself, by the way.

And welcome, back...

 

[Federberg]

Not sure who you're accusing of calling him a cheat and liar... he does what he can to win. On some level I respect that. I don't admire it.. but I respect it. None of us have much proof about a lot of the stuff we discuss on these boards, as you say.. these are opinions. So your challenge for proof seems a bit... odd... and a wee bit defensive.. ah well! Indeed this whole activity is irrelevant, it's not going to affect how the players play. It's opinions is what it is!

Anyway.. permit me to smile.. when you say you folks admit his flaws :snigger

Well, if he's taking opportunistic MTO's that he doesn't need, but which are designed to upset his opponent, that's lying, no?

And cheating.

Or is it something different?

To ask for proof is the least I can do when this old tripe keeps getting passed off as fact. Especially when the inconvenient MTO's are routinely ignored.

Usually by Fedfans like yourself, by the way.

And welcome, back...

Good to be back sir

Calling it lying and cheating seems a bit extreme to me... I would rather say he's gaming the system. It's not for me to say more than that. If the officials and the media had a bit more stones we might call it something more..

I don't recall too many Rafa fans calling him out for his antics at Indian Wells a few years back. That's what I don't get. You all seem like reasonable people. Can you really not see what the rest of us see? For my part.. and I don't speak for all Fedfans... I just want to watch great tennis, without the nonsense.

For what it's worth.. I thought Roger was done last year, or at the very least he paid the price for his South American run and wasn't able to recover for the season, but given his recent performance I can intuit that he probably was injured. BUT.. I really didn't need to hear about back problems. You play you lose.. don't come and whine about extenuating circumstances after. I really can't bear it

 

[Kieran]

I don't think anyone was whining, and I don't think anyone would dispute that Rafa has had a career that's been affected adversely by injuries.

As for Roger going to South America, he said he skipped it this year and felt better for that. I wish Rafa had paid attention to this, but he flew off to South America too, to line his pockets.

So did Nole.

The moral of the story? If you're serious about Oz, rest after the WTF or Davis Cup - and don't go looking for cheap flights to South America, they'll cost you so much more in the long run... :nono