Game of Thrones (TV Show)

[DarthFed]

My first day ever of getting to read about or listen to any commentary on GoT. I actually wondered if the last episodes seemed rushed to me as I was rushing through them. I really hated what they did to Danaerys, and I didn't buy it. And they end really just limped off into the sunset. I enjoyed it, over all, esp. the middle seasons, maybe 4-6.

Wow, you caught up already?

 

[Moxie]

Wow, you caught up already?

I am the Dragon Queen. No binge is beyond my reach. :lulz2:

EDIT: I hope they're won't be a quiz.

 

[DarthFed]

I am the Dragon Queen. No binge is beyond my reach. :lulz2:

EDIT: I hope they're won't be a quiz.

Well don't worry, it wasn't just you that thought the last season was rushed. I thought it was pretty awful overall. The directors come out of all this looking horrible as they insisted on having only 6 episodes and clearly that was not enough.

I also didn't like what happened with Dany, just the descent into madness and then the end. Even without one of the expected characters on the iron throne at the end there were other possibilities. In the directors' defense I'm sure all the main parts of the last season were based on Martin's vision as they had to consult with him a lot once the show caught up with the books.

 

[Moxie]

Well don't worry, it wasn't just you that thought the last season was rushed. I thought it was pretty awful overall. The directors come out of all this looking horrible as they insisted on having only 6 episodes and clearly that was not enough.

I also didn't like what happened with Dany, just the descent into madness and then the end. Even without one of the expected characters on the iron throne at the end there were other possibilities. In the directors' defense I'm sure all the main parts of the last season were based on Martin's vision as they had to consult with him a lot once the show caught up with the books.

But they passed the books, as I understand it, so they were on their own, and rather clearly not up to the task.

I didn't even think Dani seemed mad, which is why I couldn't buy it. They set her up for 7 years as someone who championed the downtrodden. Yes, ambitious, but she felt it was her rightful place, and was prepared to do good with it. Plus, they showed us she was so magical that she could come out of the fires unscathed, and with her dragons. At the last, she firestorms Winterfell, when asked not to. Then Jon Snow, so appalled, even though in love with her, and seeing how their combined allegiance might be good for everyone, stabs her in the heart. Even though @britbox saw that one coming, I didn't think it read true. It was an excuse for making the 3-Eyed Raven the king, who really comes off as a better counsellor than a king. What they set up was that Dany and Jon would have made the best co-rulers, but they seemed to dash that just for the sake of being unpredictable, and, IMO, it didn't pass the smell test.

 

[DarthFed]

But they passed the books, as I understand it, so they were on their own, and rather clearly not up to the task.

I didn't even think Dani seemed mad, which is why I couldn't buy it. They set her up for 7 years as someone who championed the downtrodden. Yes, ambitious, but she felt it was her rightful place, and was prepared to do good with it. Plus, they showed us she was so magical that she could come out of the fires unscathed, and with her dragons. At the last, she firestorms Winterfell, when asked not to. Then Jon Snow, so appalled, even though in love with her, and seeing how their combined allegiance might be good for everyone, stabs her in the heart. Even though @britbox saw that one coming, I didn't think it read true. It was an excuse for making the 3-Eyed Raven the king, who really comes off as a better counsellor than a king. What they set up was that Dany and Jon would have made the best co-rulers, but they seemed to dash that just for the sake of being unpredictable, and, IMO, it didn't pass the smell test.

They passed the books a long time ago. I think even parts of season 5 did and certainly by season 6 they were ahead of the books. But the author, GRR Martin, was involved with the show in regards to how he planned on his books ending. So no it wasn't really that the directors were on their own in all of this at least in regards to the main action.

There were definitely differences between the show and books throughout but it was mostly small things here and there. For example, Ned and Jaime never squared off in the first book like they did in season 1, instead Jaime ordered his men to kill Ned's men and I think Ned's horse fell on his leg or something to that effect.

As for Dany it was obvious there would be an attempt on her life. The problem was it was incredibly anticlimactic much like a lot of other major character deaths this season. And kind of unrealistic, as though Dany would have no one protecting her and would agree to see Jon after destroying the city like that. The writers just got lazy and the show ended up looking amateurish throughout the last season. A Starbucks cup and water bottle showing up in the last season was humorous to a degree but it shows how rushed and careless it became.

 

[Federberg]

But they passed the books, as I understand it, so they were on their own, and rather clearly not up to the task.

I didn't even think Dani seemed mad, which is why I couldn't buy it. They set her up for 7 years as someone who championed the downtrodden. Yes, ambitious, but she felt it was her rightful place, and was prepared to do good with it. Plus, they showed us she was so magical that she could come out of the fires unscathed, and with her dragons. At the last, she firestorms Winterfell, when asked not to. Then Jon Snow, so appalled, even though in love with her, and seeing how their combined allegiance might be good for everyone, stabs her in the heart. Even though @britbox saw that one coming, I didn't think it read true. It was an excuse for making the 3-Eyed Raven the king, who really comes off as a better counsellor than a king. What they set up was that Dany and Jon would have made the best co-rulers, but they seemed to dash that just for the sake of being unpredictable, and, IMO, it didn't pass the smell test.

Err... excuse moi he mentioned Jon killing Dany in post #683, I brought up the possibility in post #663 Just saying,.

 

[britbox]

But they passed the books, as I understand it, so they were on their own, and rather clearly not up to the task.

I didn't even think Dani seemed mad, which is why I couldn't buy it. They set her up for 7 years as someone who championed the downtrodden. Yes, ambitious, but she felt it was her rightful place, and was prepared to do good with it. Plus, they showed us she was so magical that she could come out of the fires unscathed, and with her dragons. At the last, she firestorms Winterfell, when asked not to. Then Jon Snow, so appalled, even though in love with her, and seeing how their combined allegiance might be good for everyone, stabs her in the heart. Even though @britbox saw that one coming, I didn't think it read true. It was an excuse for making the 3-Eyed Raven the king, who really comes off as a better counsellor than a king. What they set up was that Dany and Jon would have made the best co-rulers, but they seemed to dash that just for the sake of being unpredictable, and, IMO, it didn't pass the smell test.

I think it read true that Dany could go mad and that Jon could be the one who killed her. The family have a history of madness and Dany has been pulled back from aggressive tendencies in the past largely on the advice of her councillors.

There were prophecies including some from Melisandre that Jon would betray his family and those he loved...

The main problem for me was that they didn't develop the story enough to evolve either character to get them to that point. As pretty much everybody agrees, the whole season was rushed at a ridiculous speed. Dany's descent into madness should have been more gradual over a couple of seasons and Jon killing her in that fashion seemed out of character.

Overall though, I think the last episode was quite good. The problem has been the rest of Seasons 7 and 8 and the breakneck speed they've travelled to round off the plot.

 

[Federberg]

I think it read true that Dany could go mad and that Jon could be the one who killed her. The family have a history of madness and Dany has been pulled back from aggressive tendencies in the past largely on the advice of her councillors.

There were prophecies including some from Melisandre that Jon would betray his family and those he loved...

The main problem for me was that they didn't develop the story enough to evolve either character to get them to that point. As pretty much everybody agrees, the whole season was rushed at a ridiculous speed. Dany's descent into madness should have been more gradual over a couple of seasons and Jon killing her in that fashion seemed out of character.

Overall though, I think the last episode was quite good. The problem has been the rest of Seasons 7 and 8 and the breakneck speed they've travelled to round off the plot.

That is pretty much what I was going to say. It seems to me their instructing Jon Snow not to father a child is effectively an attempt to extinguish the Targaeryen line. But that last scene with Jon Snow and the Wildlings going North into the wilds tells me he’ll be getting his freak on with those wild chicks. The line will endure

 

[britbox]

That is pretty much what I was going to say. It seems to me their instructing Jon Snow not to father a child is effectively an attempt to extinguish the Targaeryen line. But that last scene with Jon Snow and the Wildlings going North into the wilds tells me he’ll be getting his freak on with those wild chicks. The line will endure

Given how much money the show has generated, I think we'll see a continuance in a few years time. I know they are making prequels next but as it's such a cash cow then I can see that kind of storyline unfolding.

 

[DarthFed]

Given how much money the show has generated, I think we'll see a continuance in a few years time. I know they are making prequels next but as it's such a cash cow then I can see that kind of storyline unfolding.

I doubt they do a sequel bud. There just wouldn't be much to go off of. I love Arya (who doesn't) but I'm not sure even a sequel based on her adventures would amount to much. I guess you could do one with the remaining characters but even that...there ain't many left

The prequel I really want to see is one centering around the years leading up to Robert's rebellion. From the material in the books and show you could get a few seasons on the events leading up to and through the rebellion.

 

[tented]

I doubt they do a sequel bud. There just wouldn't be much to go off of. I love Arya (who doesn't) but I'm not sure even a sequel based on her adventures would amount to much. I guess you could do one with the remaining characters but even that...there ain't many left

The prequel I really want to see is one centering around the years leading up to Robert's rebellion. From the material in the books and show you could get a few seasons on the events leading up to and through the rebellion.

Based on comments Martin has made, I think anything directly involving the characters in this series won’t be involved in any of the other series they’re working on. I suspect he has retained exclusive rights to them, so everything else must be tangential, at best. For example, the first one in development is set thousands of years ago.

 

[DarthFed]

Based on comments Martin has made, I think anything directly involving the characters in this series won’t be involved in any of the other series they’re working on. I suspect he has retained exclusive rights to them, so everything else must be tangential, at best. For example, the first one in development is set thousands of years ago.

Ah, I didn't realize he may be trying to avoid his characters being used in prequels/sequels. That bastard.

 

[Moxie]

I think it read true that Dany could go mad and that Jon could be the one who killed her. The family have a history of madness and Dany has been pulled back from aggressive tendencies in the past largely on the advice of her councillors.

There were prophecies including some from Melisandre that Jon would betray his family and those he loved...

The main problem for me was that they didn't develop the story enough to evolve either character to get them to that point. As pretty much everybody agrees, the whole season was rushed at a ridiculous speed. Dany's descent into madness should have been more gradual over a couple of seasons and Jon killing her in that fashion seemed out of character.

Overall though, I think the last episode was quite good. The problem has been the rest of Seasons 7 and 8 and the breakneck speed they've travelled to round off the plot.

I understand why you can justify the potential of those outcomes, even if I didn't think so. In any case, we agree that they didn't write it in a way that viewers could believe. They needed time to convince us that Dany could be that person and that Jon could kill her, and they didn't have it. By short-handing it, they left us all feeling a bit betrayed.

That said, I'm not sad that I spent the time to watch it. There were so many characters that they did bother to develop well and shocks delivered that were well prepared. So many characters evil then redeemed. Others evil and well-killed. But if whatever they do next is written by the hacks that wrote the last two seasons, I won't be wasting my time.

 

[DarthFed]

I understand why you can justify the potential of those outcomes, even if I didn't think so. In any case, we agree that they didn't write it in a way that viewers could believe. They needed time to convince us that Dany could be that person and that Jon could kill her, and they didn't have it. By short-handing it, they left us all feeling a bit betrayed.

That said, I'm not sad that I spent the time to watch it. There were so many characters that they did bother to develop well and shocks delivered that were well prepared. So many characters evil then redeemed. Others evil and well-killed. But if whatever they do next is written by the hacks that wrote the last two seasons, I won't be wasting my time.

I believe it was the same hacks for the entire series. That's what makes the last season all the more painful, it's like they stopped giving a damn. Maybe they assumed all the hardcore fans would like whatever junk they wrote.

I wouldn't include season 7 with 8. I actually thought season 7 was pretty damn good but it had its moments where the action was too rushed. All it was missing was a couple more episodes.

Season 8 was more than just rushed, it was pretty awful writing and as anticlimactic as possible in what should have been some of the biggest moments in the whole series. It is the one that doesn't belong with the group and unfortunately it is the end of the show. I still want to call it the best show I've seen but with an atrocious last season it does take quite a bit away from it.

 

[Moxie]

I believe it was the same hacks for the entire series. That's what makes the last season all the more painful, it's like they stopped giving a damn. Maybe they assumed all the hardcore fans would like whatever junk they wrote.

I wouldn't include season 7 with 8. I actually thought season 7 was pretty damn good but it had its moments where the action was too rushed. All it was missing was a couple more episodes.

Season 8 was more than just rushed, it was pretty awful writing and as anticlimactic as possible in what should have been some of the biggest moments in the whole series. It is the one that doesn't belong with the group and unfortunately it is the end of the show. I still want to call it the best show I've seen but with an atrocious last season it does take quite a bit away from it.

An industry insider has told me that they were running out of money, since they were paying execs and some of the principals so much. (Amelia Clarke was getting $1million/episode by the end, and they barely used her.) So they rushed their way out. The hew and cry is against the writers. I thought it was basically a great show, and I'm sorry they limped poorly to the ending. Did you ever watch "Mad Men?" That was a show that fulfilled its vision. But that was Matthew Wiener's show, start to finish. I never did all of The Sopranos, but I think that was another one that held its nerve.

 

[DarthFed]

An industry insider has told me that they were running out of money, since they were paying execs and some of the principals so much. (Amelia Clarke was getting $1million/episode by the end, and they barely used her.) So they rushed their way out. The hew and cry is against the writers. I thought it was basically a great show, and I'm sorry they limped poorly to the ending. Did you ever watch "Mad Men?" That was a show that fulfilled its vision. But that was Matthew Wiener's show, start to finish. I never did all of The Sopranos, but I think that was another one that held its nerve.

Certainly it is expensive but it has been revealed that HBO wanted more episodes but the directors declined so this mess is solely on them.

Yes, GOT isn't the first great show to end poorly. Dexter was probably even worse. Sopranos I thought the final season was overall pretty good and I'm one of the few that didn't hate the final season. I think Sopranos had some boring seasons in the middle of the series if I remember right. Breaking Bad ended well and I thought the Wire ended decently too. Mad Men was mad boring, only saw about 5 episodes. Like watching paint dry.

 

[Moxie]

Certainly it is expensive but it has been revealed that HBO wanted more episodes but the directors declined so this mess is solely on them.

Yes, GOT isn't the first great show to end poorly. Dexter was probably even worse. Sopranos I thought the final season was overall pretty good and I'm one of the few that didn't hate the final season. I think Sopranos had some boring seasons in the middle of the series if I remember right. Breaking Bad ended well and I thought the Wire ended decently too. Mad Men was mad boring, only saw about 5 episodes. Like watching paint dry.

I'm sorry you didn't like Mad Men. I thought it was brilliant.

 

[DarthFed]

I'm sorry you didn't like Mad Men. I thought it was brilliant.

Most people do. I remember my dad and brother would come over for GOT and then they'd stay and watch Mad Men after that. It was a good time for me to do anything else B-)

 

[britbox]

I've never watched Mad Men. Sopranos was fricken awesome. Great character development and fantastic acting. The last episode was kind of weird, but I thought it just left the ending to your own imagination. Mine said Tony probably dies.

GOT, Sopranos and Breaking Bad are probably my Top 3. Although, I've never watched a Breaking Bad episode more than once.

 

[tented]

GOT, Sopranos and Breaking Bad are probably my Top 3. Although, I've never watched a Breaking Bad episode more than once.

Hmm ... now that you mention it, I haven’t either, yet I also rank it near the top.