Dr. Fuentes is back

[Front242]

This dirty scumbag is back in business and suspected to be still active in cycling. Much talk on other tennis forums of whether he's still working with tennis players or if he plans to go back working with his old clients.

http://www.abc.es/deportes/20151015/abci-eufemiano-fuentes-201510142113.html?ns_campaign=APPWA&ns_source=BT&ns_linkname=Bottom&ns_fee=0&ns_mchannel=EM

 

[britbox]

I doubt he ever really "left"... too many connections, too many clients...

One thing is for sure, he'll likely be much more careful with hiding the "paper trail" to his end customers. Of course, we already have one big paper trail to bags of blood from a decade ago.  These bags haven't yet been destroyed from what I gather - there is still an appeal process going on involving WADA despite the judge bizarrely ordering that they be destroyed.

 

[Mastoor]

I wonder why is this in "other sports" ;-)

But didn't WADA legalise one of Dr Fuentes's methods in 2012, the one with blood spin?

 

 

 

[brokenshoelace]

I wonder why is this in “other sports”

But didn’t WADA legalise one of Dr Fuentes’s methods in 2012, the one with blood spin?

Because Dr. Fuentes' scandal mainly involved cycling.

 

[britbox]

As well as the introduction of the Biological passport, the Tour De France are also going to keep samples for ten years to allow retrospective testing.

This a big move in the right direction.  I'd like to see Tennis follow suit. We have the biological passport which is good addition... I know Federer for one, called for the storing of samples for several years after the test - hopefully the governing bodies will listen.

 

[Mastoor]

Mastoor wrote:
I wonder why is this in “other sports”

But didn’t WADA legalise one of Dr Fuentes’s methods in 2012, the one with blood spin?

Because Dr. Fuentes’ scandal mainly involved cycling.

If fans of cycling know who were Fuentes's cycling patients, we should know who were tennis players helped by him.

I don't know why they discover cyclists and other sportsmen all the time, while there was only one serious case in tennis in last 10 years, Odesnik.

Britbox, I don't think Fed ever demanded they keep blood samples for a period of time, he only mentioned it as a possibility in one of the interviews.

 

[britbox]

Broken_shoelace wrote:
<blockquote>
Mastoor wrote:
I wonder why is this in “other sports”

But didn’t WADA legalise one of Dr Fuentes’s methods in 2012, the one with blood spin?

Because Dr. Fuentes’ scandal mainly involved cycling.</blockquote>
If fans of cycling know who were Fuentes’s cycling patients, we should know who were tennis players helped by him. I don’t know why they discover cyclists and other sportsmen all the time, while there was only one serious case in tennis in last 10 years, Odesnik. Britbox, I don’t think Fed ever demanded they keep blood samples for a period of time, he only mentioned it as a possibility in one of the interviews.

Because for some bizarre reason the court case only revolved around the cyclists. Fuentes was told not to name his other non-cycling clients by the judge. The same judge who ordered the bags of blood (evidence) be destroyed.

 

[Front242]

It's about time...

Operation Puerto: Blood bags in Spanish cycling doping case to be handed over. Won't be expecting much though as I suspect the corrupt Spaniards have tampered with them or removed any juicy ones.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/cycling/36527895

 

[britbox]

It's about time...

Operation Puerto: Blood bags in Spanish cycling doping case to be handed over. Won't be expecting much though as I suspect the corrupt Spaniards have tampered with them or removed any juicy ones.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/cycling/36527895

Wow...

This could be explosive... 10 years it's taken for them to get into the hands of WADA

 

[Moxie]

It's about time...

Operation Puerto: Blood bags in Spanish cycling doping case to be handed over. Won't be expecting much though as I suspect the corrupt Spaniards have tampered with them or removed any juicy ones.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/cycling/36527895

This is good news. At least they never destroyed them. Though, Front, you've already pre-determined that if you don't hear what you want, you can attribute it to tampering and corruption. Is there really ever going to be enough clarity to convince you beyond what you already believe?

 

[Carol]

I hope those blood bags come out and everyone was involved will be prosecuted with the full force of the law. Many foreign athletes would be shaking, oh yes!

 

[DarthFed]

This is good news. At least they never destroyed them. Though, Front, you've already pre-determined that if you don't hear what you want, you can attribute it to tampering and corruption. Is there really ever going to be enough clarity to convince you beyond what you already believe?

Given what's happened I think Front has good reason to believe that some of the blood bags may have been tampered with. Also from what I've read the bags were labeled with code names instead of the athletes real names. So without Fuentes listing who is who I'm not sure they will be able to identify everyone involved.

 

[Moxie]

Given what's happened I think Front has good reason to believe that some of the blood bags may have been tampered with. Also from what I've read the bags were labeled with code names instead of the athletes real names. So without Fuentes listing who is who I'm not sure they will be able to identify everyone involved.

Fuentes isn't dead, is he? He can identify them. Or, they're blood samples, so they contain DNA. There should be some way of cross-referencing with biological passport information or otherwise samples of athletes in any number of sports. Doesn't mean there it, but there should be in the near future, then.

I get that the whole case has been handled pretty poorly. But for conspiracy theorists, and on doping Front is one, there is always a counter to any position or outcome, because they can bring in the specter of manipulation behind the scenes, and corruption, and there is no arguing with it. A face-value argument is never enough with them. It's a bit tiresome.

 

[britbox]

One thing that has slipped under the radar is that these bags have been released after the 10 year statute of limitations has passed. Nobody can be prosecuted and nobody can be banned whatever the results say. This was pretty clearly done purposefully.

Anyway, WADA have said they will name athletes... so it would be a bit of a "name and shame" game rather than anything official.

 

[Moxie]

One thing that has slipped under the radar is that these bags have been released after the 10 year statute of limitations has passed. Nobody can be prosecuted and nobody can be banned whatever the results say. This was pretty clearly done purposefully.

Anyway, WADA have said they will name athletes... so it would be a bit of a "name and shame" game rather than anything official.

Ick. Yet another blow to authenticity and transparency. So what statute(s) of limitations are we talking about? Legal? Cycling Federation? ITF? UEFA? WADA? If a tennis player (or footballer,) say, were found to be amongst the Fuentes clients, as he claimed, could that person not be stripped of titles gained in that period? Is there a 10-year statute of limitations on that? Was Armstrong under the 10-years when he was stripped of all of his Tour de France titles? Is 10 years the "magic number" across all sports?

 

[britbox]

It's legal proceedings, but I'm thinking that a sport would be foolish to strip titles because they wouldn't really be able to defend themselves legally if they were taken to court.

 

[Moxie]

It's legal proceedings, but I'm thinking that a sport would be foolish to strip titles because they wouldn't really be able to defend themselves legally if they were taken to court.

Armstrong's judgement came in 2012, and he was stripped of all titles from 1998. That's 14 years. (I just looked it up. lol) And his case was adjudicated in court. I'm not sure why you say that these cases, like the Armstrong one, couldn't hold water after 10 years. If there's hard DNA/blood evidence, they'd be forced to admit it as Lance was. And be banned, and be stripped of titles. Why not?

 

[britbox]

What I mean is that the action must be within 10 years... you can strip titles from whenever as long as the action comes within the statute of limitations.

 

[Carol]

Ask Floyd Landis, he opened the "Pantora box" when after have been catched he accused Armastrong and others to use different substances and many witness and doctors were involved that case which names weren't 'Fuentes'

 

[Moxie]

Not to be a pain, but I'm asking you: what statute of limitations? We're talking about legalities, but we're also talking about individual governing bodies of different sports. Does the ITP have a statue of limitations? Do they state that if you are retested after 10 years that there is nothing they can do? Why is Roger talking about keeping samples and testing them later, then? If, as you say, it's just "shame and blame," to what point? With the ITF and WADA there seem to be more loop-holes than strong dicta. I'd bet if a tennis player were found to be doping in the Fuentes case, there'd be a way to stitch them up.