2025 US Open Final: Alcaraz vs. Sinner

[Federberg]

Sorry, but it was more like "night & day" when it came to surface changes & the specialists on both! In my day Borg was pret' near unbeatable on clay; esp. in Paris! Only 1 person did beat him, Adriano Panatta twice! Then w/o playing Queens, went right into Wimbledon to play on choppy, slick grass! The difference was huge & back then it was the reason Borg was elevated to God-Like status; esp. winning 3 straight Channel Slams (FO-Wimbl.'78-80)! He overcame 5th set deficits to make 6 Wimbl. Finals! in '96, there was carnage going on in the Men's Draw as everyone was upset trying to adjust from Paris clay to Wimbl. grass! It was probably the only time I can think of w/ 4 SF who'd never won a major! There was no Sampras after being KO by his nemesis, Richard Krajicek in the Qrts.! Martin made a USO final later, but choked both in 5 sets; going down to Mal Washington after have a 5-1 lead in the 5th set! Over time, the courts began to homogenize; speeding up the CLAY in Paris & slowing down the grass at Wimbledon w/ perfectly manicured lawns that withstood the pounding a lot better! By the finals, they were literally playing on dirt by the 2nd week!

Back to Federer doing a Channel Slam in 2009, it wasn't half as impressive as Borg's, his play truly being "on the wane!" He needed Nadal to be upset in Paris by Soderling and a colossal choke by Roddick in the SW19 final! Proving my pt., Roger continued a spiral IMO going down to Del Po in the USO final up 2 sets to 1! I was legitimately surprised he came back to win AO over Murray in 2010! Just a tired stream of consciousness! End RANT!

Funny thing is I agree with your conclusion, but your reasoning makes zero sense to me. Borg’s channel slam was more impressive because it was in an era of hyper specialisation. Miss me with the Federer was lucky tropes. He beat who was in front of him under extreme pressure. Who knew if Rafa was ever going to be upset again? It’s like folks think it’s as simple as just turning up. Good grief!

if you want to talk about luck then Novak and Rafa are lucky they slowed the surfaces down. Have it!

 

[Kieran]

Kuerten is the only example you can bring my friend.

And that wasn’t the nineties, bear this in mind. The discussion is about tennis in the nineties, aged you’re saying that he’d be the same, despite the very different conditions. 3rd round hammering by Kuerten - who was long past his best - in 2004, and look who knocked him out in the first round the previous two years…

 

[Fiero425]

Funny thing is I agree with your conclusion, but your reasoning makes zero sense to me. Borg’s channel slam was more impressive because it was in an era of hyper specialisation. Miss me with the Federer was lucky tropes. He beat who was in front of him under extreme pressure. Who knew if Rafa was ever going to be upset again? It’s like folks think it’s as simple as just turning up. Good grief!

Well that says more about you than me! I'm still quite sane at 68 years old! As for "Fed's game being better than Borgs;" well DUH! Who's game wasn't? That's what made Borg great early on! He refused to lose even if he had to stay out there for 6 hours! He just got aggressive in his later yrs.! He had great achievements playing even more defensively than Rafa believe it or not!

 

[Federberg]

Well that says more about you than me! I'm still quite sane at 68 years old! As for "Fed's game being better than Borgs;" well DUH! Who's game wasn't? That's what made Borg great early on! He refused to lose even if he had to stay out there for 6 hours! He just got aggressive in his later yrs.! He had great achievements playing even more defensively than Rafa believe it or not!

lol! Ok then.. act like you're 68, not 168! Where did I even mention Borg's game in comparison to Federer's? Perhaps you meant to reply to someone else?

 

[Jelenafan]

The level of competition was used against Novak as well! How many around here talked about how Slams were being gifted to him w/o Fedal in 2023? I still SMH over the level of hypocrisy! I've been saying the overall level of play is "way up there" in comparison to the best! I joke about the 80's when players openly smoked & had "beer bellies," but still able to stay in the top 20! That just isn't happening today w/ players needing to not only be fit AF, but "going for broke" where red-lining is almost required to survive! We have truly talented players struggling to stay in the top 40 due to the high level of competition! Tsitsipas, Medvedev, & the others dropping like a rock in the rankings is sad, being replaced by even more elevated "ball bashing!"

There should be a distinction;

IMO overall with conditioning, nutrition & training techniques most athletes are better physically than those of prior eras. Again in most sports.

Usain Bolt will be considered one of the all time greats in track & field even when/if his records are broken. Ditto Mark Phelps, Tom Brady, LeBron James, etc

One of the factors for discussions is in context with their contemporaries is how all time greats are measured. Babe Ruth would be horribly out of shape compared to today’s baseball players but he is still in the discussion of the baseball GOATS because he was so much better ( as an individual hit more home runs than entire teams)

 

[Jelenafan]

No matter how you rank them, Federer and Djokovic are the #1 and #2 greatest players in the history of men's tennis. No one beats them at their peaks. They both produced 70+ wins and 6 titles in 2012, a year that had them face each other, slightly past peak (but still prime) Nadal, Andy Murray, del Potro, and Wawrinka. That to me is more impressive than Sinner this season.

And if you want to go back one more year, then Novak's 2011 season was the most impressive ever. He won 3 slams that year, and dominated a peak Nadal. Sinner isn't beating that version of Nadal. (Heck, he got bageled against 2021 Nadal.)

If peak Federer or peak Djokovic played this year's field, there's no doubt in my mind they would have won the calendar slam.

No , it matters how you rank them and Nadal is tops.

Your ranking is factually wrong. ; )

 

[Jelenafan]

Everybody always

Everybody loved Nadal? Who’s everybody? If there was a player universally adored, it was Federer. But even he faced negative scrutiny after the initial glowing reviews, once Rafa’s start thumping him and it became clear that - though good achievements were historical - he could be contextualised differently.

By negative scrutiny, I don’t mean hatred. I mean the initial reactions are overwhelmingly going but eventually they start to calm down and analyse him more critically..

It was a tongue in cheek post.

; )

Sarcasm on….sarcasm off

Insert laughing emoji

 

[Jelenafan]

I think Roger would have enjoyed himself transitioning from the AO/FO to W/UO. He had it in his repertoire to play on all surfaces. I think it would have been easier to win a calendar year slam for him. Not for the rest of the tour, who were mostly 2 dimensional.

So you’re saying his competition sucked?

So I guess that means Federer is overrated. Peak Sampras would have wiped the grass floor with Federer.

Borg would have crushed him on slow red clay.

Objectively speaking…. ; )

 

[atttomole]

lol! Ok then.. act like you're 68, not 168! Where did I even mention Borg's game in comparison to Federer's? Perhaps you meant to reply to someone else?

It’s me who said Federer’s game was better than Borg’s. Fiero is very nostalgic and forgetful!!

 

[atttomole]

So you’re saying his competition sucked?

So I guess that means Federer is overrated. Peak Sampras would have wiped the grass floor with Federer.

Borg would have crushed him on slow red clay.

Objectively speaking…. ; )

I was talking about the 90’s. The discussion started a few posts earlier than the post you quoted.

 

[Vince Evert]

there are notable increases in the ratings this year for both finals

A Decade of Men's and Women's U.S. Open Finals Viewership on ESPN...

https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fus-open-tv-figures-for-mens-and-womens-finals-on-espn-v0-r03pnl940dof1.jpeg%3Fwidth%3D1354%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D4d2ba3713ea2085426289414af07d066559df671

 

[Vince Evert]

look at that !

American Tennis legends McEnroe and Connors visit Sinner on the practice courts prior to the final.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Vince,
If you can find a picture of Alcaraz new blonde platinum haircut please post it here, for some reason my computer wont post it here

 

[Vince Evert]

Vince,
If you can find a picture of Alcaraz new blonde platinum haircut please post it here, for some reason my computer wont post it here

He's WHA-AAAA-T ???? LOL

 

[Vince Evert]

 

[Vince Evert]

Hows your spanish???

Spain TV news report on Carlos famous win...

 

[Vince Evert]

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La Repubblica's version of US OPEN highights - ALCARAZ batte SINNER in finale e torna numero uno al mondo: gli highlights...​

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Actually I dont mind it, he can wear that Platinum Blonde, lets face it is was a 100% better than when Taylor Fritz blonde
What concerns me is he is dating Brooks Nader she is 28 yo a model, lets see how long it lasts .
I wonder if he will keep the colour for the Laver Cup?

 

[Moxie]

Hows your spanish???

Spain TV news report on Carlos famous win...

Nothing earth shattering. The usual sports star stuff: who would have believed when I was 5 years old? I'm very proud of this victory. Best tournament of my life. I was proud to play in front of the President of the United States. Yes, I saw that Trump made a face when I won. People can make interpret it poorly, that he would have wished I hadn't won....

 

[Vince Evert]

Actually I dont mind it, he can wear that Platinum Blonde, lets face it is was a 100% better than when Taylor Fritz blonde
What concerns me is he is dating Brooks Nader she is 28 yo a model, lets see how long it lasts .
I wonder if he will keep the colour for the Laver Cup?

the new look is shades of Brando in the 1959 war movie "The Young Lions"

Anyone here seen that film ?