Sorry, Serena does not get a pass because she feels she has been discriminated against in the past. I can’t imagine Venus acting like this if she were in the same situation. Serena has a complex which I can’t condone. I’ve said already that it was unfair for her to get a code violation for something her coach did. She could have firmly said “I wasn’t cheating. That’s not fair” once and moved on. But she isn’t capable of moving on because she has such a big chip on her shoulder. I’d like to see Serena hold all the records, but I can’t fully embrace her because of her outbursts.
DarthFed
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Moxie, your "white man shame" is sickening. It's like we can't criticize an athlete's behavior, game, or anything without it immediately being attributed to race. Serena has always been someone who can get a bit too heated and takes it too far. Frankly that stuff doesn't bother me, God knows I have a temper. What bothers me is her victim mentality. She pushed Ramos too far thinking there's no way he'd ring her ass up for another violation and she cries foul as soon as he did.
DarthFed
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I just don't see it. Ramos certainly was not "wrong" to give her a violation there.Think of it like this, if she hadn't gotten two violations before that, no one would think it's harsh to give her a violation for what she said. It's only seen as "harsh" by people who think it should've been impossible for her to get a game violation. It's a game violation so surely Serena can say and do what she wants without further penalty.
Truth be told I don't think he should've given her that third violation for that but that's me as an American sitting on my couch. I learned a long time ago not to assume that words have the same meaning or context culture to culture. We might not think being called a thief and a liar are a big deal but it may be different for Ramos. I had a few Chinese guys in Beijing ready to bash my head with beer bottles just for using the f word in a sentence because over there if you use that word in any context it automatically means "fuck you". Ramos simply is not in the wrong here.
Moxie
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Clearly we don't see it the same way around here. This final reached across sports into the greater cultural world and there were a lot of things that got examined about it. It didn't make them up out of whole cloth. @DarthFed, you just said you don't think he should have given her the 3rd violation. That's really all I said. And I've asked folks to look at things in the context of the wider experience that Serena has had. You're asking to understand from Ramos's cultural POV. At the very least, we can look at it from Serena's, too.
DarthFed
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I don't think Ramos should've given her the last one but I also don't think he was wrong to do so. She "earned" it and her race and gender have nothing to do with it. How do we have to look at things culturally from her perspective?
there is obvious resentment within the tennis community that Serena can waltz in and out when she feels like.She makes two grand slam finals in less than six months ....thats disheartening for some players.The criticizim is mostly from white people and their hatred of Serena is manifesting.
i think Patrick is now a liability to Serena and should go away,he is sabotaging her for unknown reasons..this is a cautionary tale that these people were waiting to use Serena for her success and now biting the hand that fed them and that includes Bajin.
i think Patrick is now a liability to Serena and should go away,he is sabotaging her for unknown reasons..this is a cautionary tale that these people were waiting to use Serena for her success and now biting the hand that fed them and that includes Bajin.
britbox
Multiple Major Winner
What's the greater cultural world? A bunch of academics or self-appointed experts talking crap about things they know nothing about.
Serena abused Ramos. At some point he has to make that call. She kept going... eventually he made that call.
The bottom line is... you will either have to call Ramos out for being racist or sexist... or lay it on Serena. Nobody else was involved. Which is it? You're going around in circles... saying none or the other... and just rambling on about white males and "culture"
Bottomline is Ramos and people who support him accused Serena of being a cheat,thats what caused Serena to react like that.He knew what he was doing ....I think the tennis world doesnt want Serena to.get to 24 but next year..watch out she will be there with or without Patrick.He used her and now he wants to.destroy her...he has to go.
britbox
Multiple Major Winner
Ramos acknowledged Serena wasn't a cheat. You need to understand the rule. If a coach tries to get signals to a player then the player can get penalised whether they have seen or acted on the signals or not. The player is getting penalised for the coach's actions. Patrick admitted it already. The first infraction was on Team Williams. You can blame Patrick for that and Serena already did... but you can't blame Ramos... he saw it and issued the infraction.
Well there is growing chat online that Patrick sabotaged Serena for whatever reason.I would be surprised to see him in het box next year...Serena has never asked for coaching all her career and for him to run to the media to tell them they were cheating is unforgivable..he is part of the problem..
This is such a small minded take on the issue. How old are you? Online chat is bollock, you take some wheel chair fans opinion as some kind of proof? Williams must have some of the stupidest fans ever.
Culture my ass, she abused the umpire and got called out.....and it’s ramos fault? She is known to throw abuse when things don’t her way. She got outplayed pure and simple, this is just to deflect from that fact. Since you often complain about men do this and that wrong, don’t watch the sport that MEN invented....and save the whinge.
GameSetAndMath
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Umpiring decisions are not rigid. If it were so, even a robot could do umpiring. They leave it to the discretion of the umpire to make the calls.
As such there is no expectation that different umpires will behave identically.
This is much like what happens in court of law. One judge might give the criminal just two years, while another one might throw him behind the bars for a dozen years. The sentencing guidelines are usually only a range and the actual sentence is decided by the judge's call. There is no expectation here that all judges will react in the same way. But, there is an expectation that the judges will make the decision considering the broader context.
After the Serena fiasco the tennis world is getting brazen with their bias and racism.Sloane got a wake up call in China agsinst Pav and the russian was ready to risk it all by almost jumping the american instead the umpire didnt confront Pav but went on to confront Scone.This bias has been has been an open secret and now they dont care about showing their bias because they have the full support of thr powers that be..
This is not an isolated situation its been creeping in ..look at the way Bartoli admonished Monfils like she is his mother,then the racism that Ryan Harrison displayed to Donald Young and was swept under the carpet.These situations will continue even more now that their support for Ramos was overwhelming and telling these players of color better develop thicker skin.Venus and Serena withstood the barrage of hate for years and will leave the sport on their terms and will leave as warriors..