2014 Miami Final: Nadal vs. Djokovic

[Kieran]

The "field" are just that, something to tramp through on the way home...

Well yeah, otherwise the "field" would be called "Grand Slam champions." And yet, it's always been called the field.

It's a bigger field now than ever, unfortunately...

 

[Fiero425]

The "field" are just that, something to tramp through on the way home...

Well yeah, otherwise the "field" would be called "Grand Slam champions." And yet, it's always been called the field.

But the field was more competent it seemed "way back when" and at least made major finals, taking Masters, and upsetting the top players "sometimes!" Even a nobody like Chris Lewis made a Wimbledon final in '83! Sampras took a few titles over the likes of Pioline, Martin, and Phillippousis! Why can't today's stars finish a quality match against the top 3? Tsonga, Ferrer, Gasquet, and the rest should be embarrassed! All that talent and out of most of these "also-rans" the last few years, only Ferrer made a final at the FO last season and that was a fluke because of Nadal's low seed and Murray's absence!

 

[Front242]

Hopefully. About time someone other than the usual suspects wins a slam. You have Wawrinka and Del Potro as the odd men out of the one time big four winning a slam in the last 5 years and that's it.

We JUST saw a new slam champion 3 months ago. Don't be greedy.

I mentioned him first I just wish Tsonga won a slam but sadly he never will at this stage.

 

[Front242]

The "field" are just that, something to tramp through on the way home...

Well yeah, otherwise the "field" would be called "Grand Slam champions." And yet, it's always been called the field.

But the field was more competent it seemed "way back when" and at least made major finals, taking Masters, and upsetting the top players "sometimes!" Even a nobody like Chris Lewis made a Wimbledon final in '83! Sampras took a few titles over the likes of Pioline, Martin, and Phillippousis! Why can't today's stars finish a quality match against the top 3? Tsonga, Ferrer, Gasquet, and the rest should be embarrassed! All that talent and out of most of these "also-rans" the last few years, only Ferrer made a final at the FO last season and that was a fluke because of Nadal's low seed and Murray's absence!

Ferrer likely would've beaten Murray there even if he played him anyway.

 

[brokenshoelace]

The "field" are just that, something to tramp through on the way home...

Well yeah, otherwise the "field" would be called "Grand Slam champions." And yet, it's always been called the field.

It's a bigger field now than ever, unfortunately...

And I suppose statistical data makes this claim irrevocable

 

[Kieran]

The "field" are just that, something to tramp through on the way home...

Well yeah, otherwise the "field" would be called "Grand Slam champions." And yet, it's always been called the field.

It's a bigger field now than ever, unfortunately...

And I suppose statistical data makes this claim irrevocable

Statistical data in this case is like a judge's black cap...

 

[herios]

Let's see if Berdych can make another slam final, He said Wawrinka is an inspiration for him, he watched how he managed to win his first slam and he thinks he could do it as well.
He has now withdrawn from DC to focus on the Tour, so I think he is serious about it.

 

[Front242]

^ Wimbledon is his best shot imo and not only 'cos it's the only slam final he made but because if his serve is working well usually the rest of his game is too and both of those are a deadly combo on grass.

 

[Kieran]

From Tennis.com, Steve Tignor wrote a good article, which reflects much of what we say here...

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

I am curious to know what the board thinks as to who will have the better H2H when it is all said and done between these two great players, and why.

 

[TsarMatt]

Really impressed with Djokovic so far in 2014. After losing to Stan and copping some flack about Boris Becker coaching, he has rebounded quite well, even if he didn't play consistently great tennis at Indian Wells. Good stuff and happy to see it! Nadal, too, despite being titleless so far, is playing some good tennis, and hasn't dropped off much at all after that harrowing AO loss.

Looking forward to seeing how Nole will defend his Monte Carlo crown, too. After all, it was Nadal's territory for so long...

 

[Fiero425]

I am curious to know what the board thinks as to who will have the better H2H when it is all said and done between these two great players, and why.

It's only wishful thinking, but I'd put Nole ahead "after all is said and done!" I think he's more fit and won't break down as soon as Rafa who works entirely too hard with any player out there! I see similarities with this rivalry that were evident with Chris Evert and Martina Navratilova! They're almost the same age, one more dominant to begin with; esp. on clay! A turning point occurs and a big run is achieved by the younger, less experienced player! Evert had a huge lead; like 20-8 before Martina had a run of 14 matches in a row go in her favor! She was often toying with Chris; even on clay! If not for so many clay Masters events, I think he would have surpassed Rafa already, but since there are so many, it'll take a little while longer; but not much! Nole's won the last 3 matches in dominating fashion! We can only hope he can keep it going this spring on European clay! I'd be more than happy enough for him if he complete his career with at least 1 French Open and 1 Cinn. Master!

 

[Riotbeard]

Really impressed with Djokovic so far in 2014. After losing to Stan and copping some flack about Boris Becker coaching, he has rebounded quite well, even if he didn't play consistently great tennis at Indian Wells. Good stuff and happy to see it! Nadal, too, despite being titleless so far, is playing some good tennis, and hasn't dropped off much at all after that harrowing AO loss.

Looking forward to seeing how Nole will defend his Monte Carlo crown, too. After all, it was Nadal's territory for so long...

Nadal won Rio and I think one of the aussie runner up tourneys.

 

[TsarMatt]

^ Crap, he did too. My bad... He just wins those 250/500 events so seamlessly, it's easy to forget about.

 

[Riotbeard]

I am curious to know what the board thinks as to who will have the better H2H when it is all said and done between these two great players, and why.

Nole is 11-6 against nadal since 2011 including 4-3 on clay. Nadal being older in actual age and tennis years, I think Novak gets the edge ultimately baring serious injury and/or early retirement of one or the other.

 

[Moxie]

Really impressed with Djokovic so far in 2014. After losing to Stan and copping some flack about Boris Becker coaching, he has rebounded quite well, even if he didn't play consistently great tennis at Indian Wells. Good stuff and happy to see it! Nadal, too, despite being titleless so far, is playing some good tennis, and hasn't dropped off much at all after that harrowing AO loss.

Looking forward to seeing how Nole will defend his Monte Carlo crown, too. After all, it was Nadal's territory for so long...

Nadal won Rio and I think one of the aussie runner up tourneys.

Yes, he won Doha, too.

 

[Moxie]

I am curious to know what the board thinks as to who will have the better H2H when it is all said and done between these two great players, and why.

It's only wishful thinking, but I'd put Nole ahead "after all is said and done!" I think he's more fit and won't break down as soon as Rafa who works entirely too hard with any player out there! I see similarities with this rivalry that were evident with Chris Evert and Martina Navratilova! They're almost the same age, one more dominant to begin with; esp. on clay! A turning point occurs and a big run is achieved by the younger, less experienced player! Evert had a huge lead; like 20-8 before Martina had a run of 14 matches in a row go in her favor! She was often toying with Chris; even on clay! If not for so many clay Masters events, I think he would have surpassed Rafa already, but since there are so many, it'll take a little while longer; but not much! Nole's won the last 3 matches in dominating fashion! We can only hope he can keep it going this spring on European clay! I'd be more than happy enough for him if he complete his career with at least 1 French Open and 1 Cinn. Master!

I agree that there's a good chance that Nole will lead the H2H when it's all done between them. Djokovic is a dangerous opponent for Nadal, who yes, has more mileage on him, (matches, not simply hard playing. Novak works pretty hard out there, too.) Rafa is entering the late middle-age of his career, with more years of dominating, or all-but, while Novak is still in peak years. I think he has time to catch up and pass in the personal H2H.

I don't agree with your statement, though, that there are "so many" clay MS, and that's why Nole hasn't caught Rafa there already. Three Masters are played on clay, while six are played on the HCs.

 

[Fiero425]

I am curious to know what the board thinks as to who will have the better H2H when it is all said and done between these two great players, and why.

It's only wishful thinking, but I'd put Nole ahead "after all is said and done!" I think he's more fit and won't break down as soon as Rafa who works entirely too hard with any player out there! I see similarities with this rivalry that were evident with Chris Evert and Martina Navratilova! They're almost the same age, one more dominant to begin with; esp. on clay! A turning point occurs and a big run is achieved by the younger, less experienced player! Evert had a huge lead; like 20-8 before Martina had a run of 14 matches in a row go in her favor! She was often toying with Chris; even on clay! If not for so many clay Masters events, I think he would have surpassed Rafa already, but since there are so many, it'll take a little while longer; but not much! Nole's won the last 3 matches in dominating fashion! We can only hope he can keep it going this spring on European clay! I'd be more than happy enough for him if he complete his career with at least 1 French Open and 1 Cinn. Master!

I agree that there's a good chance that Nole will lead the H2H when it's all done between them. Djokovic is a dangerous opponent for Nadal, who yes, has more mileage on him, (matches, not simply hard playing. Novak works pretty hard out there, too.) Rafa is entering the late middle-age of his career, with more years of dominating, or all-but, while Novak is still in peak years. I think he has time to catch up and pass in the personal H2H.

I don't agree with your statement, though, that there are "so many" clay MS, and that's why Nole hasn't caught Rafa there already. Three Masters are played on clay, while six are played on the HCs.

The most dominant players after Borg weren't really that adept at taking Rome and Monte Carlo but once or twice over their careers while Rafa has inflated his record with those titles! Sampras, McEnroe, Edberg, Becker, and even Andre lost on those courts time and time again; if they went at all! They couldn't pad their numbers and stats with multiple clay court titles the way Rafa has over the years! Even Borg didn't have 8 MC or Rome titles; just 2 I believe! They weren't as important then as they are today; most top players skipping them! I can't remember Connors ever going to those events! Not like he'd win!

 

[Riotbeard]

I am curious to know what the board thinks as to who will have the better H2H when it is all said and done between these two great players, and why.

It's only wishful thinking, but I'd put Nole ahead "after all is said and done!" I think he's more fit and won't break down as soon as Rafa who works entirely too hard with any player out there! I see similarities with this rivalry that were evident with Chris Evert and Martina Navratilova! They're almost the same age, one more dominant to begin with; esp. on clay! A turning point occurs and a big run is achieved by the younger, less experienced player! Evert had a huge lead; like 20-8 before Martina had a run of 14 matches in a row go in her favor! She was often toying with Chris; even on clay! If not for so many clay Masters events, I think he would have surpassed Rafa already, but since there are so many, it'll take a little while longer; but not much! Nole's won the last 3 matches in dominating fashion! We can only hope he can keep it going this spring on European clay! I'd be more than happy enough for him if he complete his career with at least 1 French Open and 1 Cinn. Master!

I agree that there's a good chance that Nole will lead the H2H when it's all done between them. Djokovic is a dangerous opponent for Nadal, who yes, has more mileage on him, (matches, not simply hard playing. Novak works pretty hard out there, too.) Rafa is entering the late middle-age of his career, with more years of dominating, or all-but, while Novak is still in peak years. I think he has time to catch up and pass in the personal H2H.

I don't agree with your statement, though, that there are "so many" clay MS, and that's why Nole hasn't caught Rafa there already. Three Masters are played on clay, while six are played on the HCs.

Yeah I think the proportion of hard to clay masters certainly favors Novak for their head 2 head!

 

[Moxie]

^ I'm not going to credit your "gut" anymore than I give credence to GSM's notion: that, since Rafa won 4, then lost one, won 4 again, therefore he'll lose this year, based on pattern. However, I will say that we've all been wondering for a quite a while how long Rafa can keep up this high-wire act on clay, particularly at Roland Garros. (I mean that seriously, as a fan who can bluster with the best of them.) I don't really think anyone gets points for predicting it'll be this year, or for predicting it won't. Rafa is off the charts now, so we'll just have to wait and see.

Nadal will lose at RG again someday, unless he pulls off the near-impossible, and keeps winning there, then retires. But he's already pulled off what seemed heretofore impossible at the French, so…who knows?

I'll expand: My "gut" is not based on some potential odd statistical coincidence. Instead, I think Nadal had a phenomenal year last season in which he reached almost every final, and I believe come the FO, he might be lacking a bit in terms of intensity as a result, especially given that he will, at the absolute worst, go very deep in all of the clay tournaments leading up to it.

We've seen it before with Novak after 2011, Roger after 2012, and Nadal himself after 2010, where the emotional, mental, and physical toll of having an outrageously good year catches up to you. Granted, I think even a slightly less intense Rafa could still sleepwalk into the FO final, which is why I said he won't be losing before the final in another thread, but seeing the level required for him to beat Djokovic (even on clay, Rafa still has to play very well), a loss in intensity might ultimately prove to be a difference-maker.

Remember 2011? That was kind of what happened during that clay court season. And even in his 2011 FO win, Nadal looked pretty average by his impossible standards.

Now, let me be clear: I always am so vocally against making predictions about slam winners months in advance, before we actually see how they're playing in the weeks leading up to the slam and most importantly, at the slam itself. So this is in NO WAY a prediction. It's more of an initial observation. Come June, Rafa may be looking like his normal King of Clay self and I'll be the first to predict he'll be biting the trophy...unless he runs into clay killers Isner, Fogini and Cilic, of course

PS: To be even clearer, as it stands, Nadal is still the clear favorite at the FO until proven otherwise, and it's up for Novak to prove otherwise.

This is a very good post, Broken, especially on the ebbs and flows of intensity, and the differences it can make, year to year. And hadn't had a chance to respond, so will now, to bring your post back. I take what you're saying about your "gut" feeling that sometime it's very possible that Nadal loses at RG, only to take it again.

I have always thought that in the 2008 Wimbledon final, when nothing much separated Nadal and Federer in the 5th set, it was Nadal's desire to win it that made the difference. His "intensity," if you will. (I know there are Fed fans who will always say it was Roger playing crap in the first 2 sets. Whatever.) Still, a player with 5 trophies v. the one with 3 finals and a great hunger…and a strong game. This same scenario may yet apply to a Nadal v. Djokovic final at RG, when next they meet in a final, and if they play 5 tight sets.